Zhao's All-Time Top 10 Generals

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

My theory about Shibashou and Chousha:

Spoiler: Semi-historical I guess

So as of right now, SBS doesn't seem to show any hint of Instinctual ability, which was a popular theory for his fighting prowess and his eyes gives off similar vibes to Keisha's and Gyou'Un's. SBS is using mostly brute force and some tactics to break through Ousen's army.

So Idk if Hara will give SBS an Instinctual ability or not. We'll see.

On the contrary, Chousha is the most mysterious OG GH. We know nothing about him in the manga except that he's the father of Chou Katsu who Ouki one tapped and there's Chou Kotsu which is probably his grandson.

Ability wise, I have speculations about him being the "Moubu" of Zhao. Or he could be a pure Instinctual general of Zhao.

Renpa = Hybrid General of Strategical and Instinctual.
Rinshoujo = Pure Strategical.
Houken = Pure Brute Force.
Chousha = Greatest physical strength or an Instinctual.
Shibashou = Greatest physical strength or Instinctual depending on what Hara will do with him.

If I remember correctly, in history, Chousha decimates Koshou in battle. There are 3 ways for Hara to make one sided battle in the series:

1. There's a way better strategist than the opponent's strategist.
2. Instinctual vs Strategical.
3. Brute Force unrivalled (Moubu) that defies even strategies and tactics.

Chousha doesn't seem like an Strategical general for me (RSJ is there for that) so he's either have the greatest physical strength among the GHs, making him the "Moubu" of Zhao or a pure Instinctual general which line up well with the OG Great Heavens.

Renpa = Hybrid.
RSJ = Strategical.
Chousha = Instinctual.

And it would make sense on how Chousha managed to decimate Koshou in one sided manner in real life. As for Shibashou, Hara could make him the physically strongest of the GHs but Jiaga is there so that would mean Jiaga > SBS physical strength wise. Unless Jiaga's title box of being the strongest Seika general doesn't include SBS for whatever reasons Lmao.

But yeah, that's my two cents on this. Would love to hear y'all opinions on this. @Lee Ba Shou @Owl Ki @God Buggy @Extravlad @FutureWarrior123 @TheKnightOfTheSea @Bullet etc etc.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

My theory about Shibashou and Chousha:

Spoiler: Semi-historical I guess

So as of right now, SBS doesn't seem to show any hint of Instinctual ability, which was a popular theory for his fighting prowess and his eyes gives off similar vibes to Keisha's and Gyou'Un's. SBS is using mostly brute force and some tactics to break through Ousen's army.

So Idk if Hara will give SBS an Instinctual ability or not. We'll see.

On the contrary, Chousha is the most mysterious OG GH. We know nothing about him in the manga except that he's the father of Chou Katsu who Ouki one tapped and there's Chou Kotsu which is probably his grandson.

Ability wise, I have speculations about him being the "Moubu" of Zhao. Or he could be a pure Instinctual general of Zhao.

Renpa = Hybrid General of Strategical and Instinctual.
Rinshoujo = Pure Strategical.
Houken = Pure Brute Force.
Chousha = Greatest physical strength or an Instinctual.
Shibashou = Greatest physical strength or Instinctual depending on what Hara will do with him.

If I remember correctly, in history, Chousha decimates Koshou in battle. There are 3 ways for Hara to make one sided battle in the series:

1. There's a way better strategist than the opponent's strategist.
2. Instinctual vs Strategical.
3. Brute Force unrivalled (Moubu) that defies even strategies and tactics.

Chousha doesn't seem like an Strategical general for me (RSJ is there for that) so he's either have the greatest physical strength among the GHs, making him the "Moubu" of Zhao or a pure Instinctual general which line up well with the OG Great Heavens.

Renpa = Hybrid.
RSJ = Strategical.
Chousha = Instinctual.

And it would make sense on how Chousha managed to decimate Koshou in one sided manner in real life. As for Shibashou, Hara could make him the physically strongest of the GHs but Jiaga is there so that would mean Jiaga > SBS physical strength wise. Unless Jiaga's title box of being the strongest Seika general doesn't include SBS for whatever reasons Lmao.

But yeah, that's my two cents on this. Would love to hear y'all opinions on this. @Lee Ba Shou @Owl Ki @God Buggy @Extravlad @FutureWarrior123 @TheKnightOfTheSea @Bullet etc etc.

For the record, I still highly doubt the statements about Jiaga and Jyoukaryuu being the strongest includes Shibashou. I guess it could but when Jiaga spoke to Kansaro, it was as if Jiaga thought Shibashou falling in battle was impossible. I guess it’s possible but I think Shibashou is excluded from the Jiaga vs Jyoukaryuu debate lol.

Anyway.

Spoiler: Chousha

Alright so iirc, Chousha defeated Koshou by ambushing him during the night time. Probably what would inspire IRL Houken to utilize nighttime tactics in his battles, and probably why Hara has drawn Houken attacking at night so much lol.

Anyway, so I’m with you that Chousha should be different from Renpa and Rinshoujou, Choukatsu was physically quite large so Chousha himself was probably a hybrid martial general like Renpa.

As for what type of general he was, I could see it a couple of different ways.

The “Chou” family seems like a highly famous family in Zhao, which means Chousha was either born into an already prominent family like Ousen, or he himself was the one who raised the Chou house to glory like Mougou.

If Chousha was born into an already prominent family, he was probably formally trained in warfare since his family would have paid to have him trained like Ouki and Ouhon. Which would probably reduce the chances of him being an instinctual type since he would be more likely to be a formally trained strategist like Rinshoujou.

If Chousha didn’t receive formal training like Duke Hyou, I could see him honing instincts on the battlefield. Or maybe he was like Renpa, who seemed to have built a martial reputation for himself on the battlefield before Genpou took him in as a student. Though I wouldn’t like this as it would make Renpa less unique as I don’t think Renpa was from some famous family.

Alright so here is my speculation on Chousha:

The battle that Chousha defeated Koshou was actually one that wasn’t supposed to happen initially. The King of Zhao called Renpa to Kantan to discuss with him how to stop the Qin’s advance. Renpa recommended the Zhao face Koshou at a specific location, and then Chousha comes in and tells the Zhao King that they should not face Koshou where Renpa says they should, and instead recommends they face Koshou earlier. Renpa tells the Zhao King he does not recommend Chousha’s plan.

Ultimately the Zhao King decides to go with Chousha’s plan, and this is when Chousha defeats Koshou.

To me, this whole conversation makes me think Chousha already came from a prominent family, because he had the political skill to persuade the Zhao King to go against Renpa’s judgment and let him face Koshou on his terms. To me, this makes me think Chousha was already highly familiar with nobility politics and how to interact with royalty and persuade them of your plan. Furthermore, Renpa’s inability to persuade the Zhao King, Hara would probably attribute this to Renpa not having a highborn background. Probably. I could just be talking out of my ass but this is always how I saw Renpa.

So if my little theory is true, then this would seem to make Chousha a formally educated strategist similar to Rinshoujou, but was also a born warrior and was also combat trained and could fight if he needed to.

Plus night time raiding seems like really advanced strategy to me. I don’t see a Duke Hyou coming up with a night time attack, it’s been established in Kingdom that even commanders like Riboku are heavily weary of attacking during the night. For Chousha to defeat a 6GG during the night would hype how deep his knowledge of warfare actually ran.

Anyway. Just my two cents.

 

[God Buggy]

For the record, I still highly doubt the statements about Jiaga and Jyoukaryuu being the strongest includes Shibashou. I guess it could but when Jiaga spoke to Kansaro, it was as if Jiaga thought Shibashou falling in battle was impossible. I guess it’s possible but I think Shibashou is excluded from the Jiaga vs Jyoukaryuu debate lol.

Anyway.

Spoiler: Chousha

Alright so iirc, Chousha defeated Koshou by ambushing him during the night time. Probably what would inspire IRL Houken to utilize nighttime tactics in his battles, and probably why Hara has drawn Houken attacking at night so much lol.

Anyway, so I’m with you that Chousha should be different from Renpa and Rinshoujou, Choukatsu was physically quite large so Chousha himself was probably a hybrid martial general like Renpa.

As for what type of general he was, I could see it a couple of different ways.

The “Chou” family seems like a highly famous family in Zhao, which means Chousha was either born into an already prominent family like Ousen, or he himself was the one who raised the Chou house to glory like Mougou.

If Chousha was born into an already prominent family, he was probably formally trained in warfare since his family would have paid to have him trained like Ouki and Ouhon. Which would probably reduce the chances of him being an instinctual type since he would be more likely to be a formally trained strategist like Rinshoujou.

If Chousha didn’t receive formal training like Duke Hyou, I could see him honing instincts on the battlefield. Or maybe he was like Renpa, who seemed to have built a martial reputation for himself on the battlefield before Genpou took him in as a student. Though I wouldn’t like this as it would make Renpa less unique as I don’t think Renpa was from some famous family.

Alright so here is my speculation on Chousha:

The battle that Chousha defeated Koshou was actually one that wasn’t supposed to happen initially. The King of Zhao called Renpa to Kantan to discuss with him how to stop the Qin’s advance. Renpa recommended the Zhao face Koshou at a specific location, and then Chousha comes in and tells the Zhao King that they should not face Koshou where Renpa says they should, and instead recommends they face Koshou earlier. Renpa tells the Zhao King he does not recommend Chousha’s plan.

Ultimately the Zhao King decides to go with Chousha’s plan, and this is when Chousha defeats Koshou.

To me, this whole conversation makes me think Chousha already came from a prominent family, because he had the political skill to persuade the Zhao King to go against Renpa’s judgment and let him face Koshou on his terms. To me, this makes me think Chousha was already highly familiar with nobility politics and how to interact with royalty and persuade them of your plan. Furthermore, Renpa’s inability to persuade the Zhao King, Hara would probably attribute this to Renpa not having a highborn background. Probably. I could just be talking out of my ass but this is always how I saw Renpa.

So if my little theory is true, then this would seem to make Chousha a formally educated strategist similar to Rinshoujou, but was also a born warrior and was also combat trained and could fight if he needed to.

Plus night time raiding seems like really advanced strategy to me. I don’t see a Duke Hyou coming up with a night time attack, it’s been established in Kingdom that even commanders like Riboku are heavily weary of attacking during the night. For Chousha to defeat a 6GG during the night would hype how deep his knowledge of warfare actually ran.

Anyway. Just my two cents.

Lol Chousha going "Nah, I'd win." in Renpa's presence and then actually achieving such a thing would be bonkers.

Spoiler

But what if Chousha feeds Kouen hype?

 

[Bullet]

Chousha looked too badass to not be a fighter
Night raid isn't instinctual so probably a tactician
SBS has also given no indication of instincts so far so i guess there's not gonna be any instinctual GH's.

 

[Owl Ki]

Lol Chousha going "Nah, I'd win." in Renpa's presence and then actually achieving such a wild thing would be bonkers.

Spoiler

But what if Chousha feeds Kouen hype?

Spoiler

What if Chousa feeds Shouheikan hype @Elder Lee Hung ?

I'd finally have a reason to put him on the tier you advise me to.

 

[Bullet]

Spoiler

What if Chousa feeds Shouheikan hype @Elder Lee Hung ?

I'd finally have a reason to put him on the tier you advise me too.

Watch Kosho get defeated because he followed SHK's advice.
Forget about the fortifications, no one attacks during the nig... Oops.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Lol Chousha going "Nah, I'd win." in Renpa's presence and then actually achieving such a thing would be bonkers.

Spoiler

But what if Chousha feeds Kouen hype?

lol, that’s why I’ve been telling yall, Chousha is crazy. Truly he was worthy of carrying the 3GH name. Or rather, it’s the newer 3GHs that need to live up to his legacy. So far they all have.

I think Renpa was probably a younger 3GH when Chousha showed up and schooled him like that lol. I don’t see Sanyou Renpa getting schooled in that manner. And this was pre-Chouhei so Renpa was definitely not in his peak form yet.

Spoiler

What if Chousa feeds Shouheikan hype @Elder Lee Hung ?

I'd finally have a reason to put him on the tier you advise me too.

LOL. I can’t remember if I ever posted this on WorstGen…I think I did…but:

Spoiler

So, historically Koshou vanishes after Chousha defeats him. I’m not sure if Hara would actually have Koshou die when Chousha defeats him, but he could totally get away with it.

Conversely, Chousha defeating Koshou was his last act as a general, he dies in his sleep a few years later.

….But what if Hara uses this opportunity to hype Shouheikun. Lol

What if after Koshou is slain, Shouheikun rallies the remaining Qin army and then turns around and defeats and kills Chousha?

Hear me out:

For Ryofui to choose Shouheikun as the head of the Qin military, Shouheikun would actually have to demonstrate that he himself was of GG caliber correct? How could Shouheikun do this? Well, defeating other Great Generals himself would put him in that conversation right? Well, historically the big boy his master Koshou faced was Chousha. So would this be his big chance to flex?

Idk I doubt Hara would have Chousha go out like that, but there’s still the question of why Shouheikun earned such a crazy reputation for himself, and why Ryofui thought he could lead the whole Qin military to begin with.

 

[TheKnightOfTheSea]

Moubu and Shouheikun both were probably under Koshou's command

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Moubu and Shouheikun both were probably under Koshou's command

Koshou’s army would be stacked as hell if this was true lol. Even young Moubu and Shouheikun would’ve been a scary combo for a Koshou level mind.

Anyway @Warchief Sanji D Goat another point I forgot to make:

When it comes to Great Generals, guys like Houken who only have one single thing they specialize in (martial might) are extremely rare.

Look at Rinshoujou: Not only was his mind hyped up severely, but he also had the charisma of a great king and attracted many powerful warriors to his cause, and they were so die hard loyal to him, 8 of them killed themselves when he died.

So you could say Rinshoujou had nearly maxed out intelligence and nearly maxed out on leadership.

Look at Riboku: his mind and his strategies have been hyped severely, but Riboku is also one of the best leaders in the manga. Hara gave him a 100 IQ stat, which almost overshadows his 99 Leadership stat. Literally Riboku is a leader practically on par with Gakuki himself, rivaling Yotanwa herself, and this isn’t even Riboku’s dominant stat. Riboku can galvanize foreign armies with his speeches and always attracts the most powerful commanders to his cause.

So again we see this idea of specialist generals like Riboku and Rinshoujou, actually specializing in two aspects of warfare and not just one. Really you could say Riboku and Rinshoujou are maxed out in all three aspects of warfare, since Rinshoujou had his ten heroes and Riboku is always going into battle with some martial nutcases in front of him.

To be a legit Great General of the Heavens (Zhao3/Qin6/Wei7) you really need to be incredible in all three aspects of warfare (strength, intelligence, leadership). The GGs who only have one of these stats at a high level literally would not exist if Houken didn’t exist.

True Great Generals like Renpa and Ouki fill all of these rolls by themselves. Renpa’s leadership is so high, he can awaken foreign armies just with his presence. His mind is so great that he can go blow for blow with guys like Ousen himself. And his personal martial strength is so high that he is one of the absolute best warriors in the history of Zhao. He fills all three rolls without needing a single subordinate to compensate for his weaknesses.

I say all this to say that to me, I never saw Shibashou as a pure warrior and I know a lot of others never saw him this way either. As soon as we found out that Shibashou was the Lord of his own city and was in fact a traditional commander and not some anomaly like Houken, the chances of this guy being a mindless warrior went out of the window.

Now I definitely think martial might will be Shibashou’s defining trait as a commander, I don’t think Shibashou would be a 3GH if he wasn’t an 8 foot tall monster, but I definitely never saw him as a pure warrior with nothing else. And I think Hara highlighting Shibashou’s leadership and to an extent his strategic/tactical awareness before he hyped his martial prowess confirms this.

As to exactly what type of general Shibashou will be, I actually think the probability of him being an instinctual is very high, and I don’t usually say that about other commanders. I think Ouki was a strategic type for example. But with Shibashou, I think instincts is probably what we’ll see from him. And I think there are lore reasons behind this:

Firstly, I don’t think Shibashou is from a famous military family. I mean I guess he could be distantly related to Shibasaku or something, but you have to wonder how this guy came to Lord over a “newly established” city like Seika if this guy was from some famous military family already.

No, I think Hara has already teased that Shibashou is from the north and spent his “youth” battling the Xiongnu. Who were this guy’s parents? I have no clue, he could be the child of some prodigious northern warrior/s who we’ve never heard of, or he could just be an anomalous birth (unlikely).

But I think if Shibashou spent his youth on the battlefield and not receiving some formal training, then it would’ve been battlefield instincts that he developed and not a strategists mind lol. I think he’s sharp enough to be able to follow Riboku’s plans perfectly, and also sharp enough to read the battlefield itself on his own, similar to Bananji. Will we see his instincts? I have no idea lol.

Okay so here’s another idea that popped into my head recently: what if Ousen retreats to a mountain fortress similar to Sanyou, and what if Shibashou, instead of holding position like Renpa did, attacks his mountain fortress like Ordo did? If Shibashou is from the north, he should be well versed in mountain warfare and we may see his instincts/martial might against one of Ousen’s “perfect” mountain fortresses.

Okay this post is long enough good lord lol.

 

[God Buggy]

lol, that’s why I’ve been telling yall, Chousha is crazy. Truly he was worthy of carrying the 3GH name. Or rather, it’s the newer 3GHs that need to live up to his legacy. So far they all have.

I think Renpa was probably a younger 3GH when Chousha showed up and schooled him like that lol. I don’t see Sanyou Renpa getting schooled in that manner. And this was pre-Chouhei so Renpa was definitely not in his peak form yet.




LOL. I can’t remember if I ever posted this on WorstGen…I think I did…but:

Spoiler

So, historically Koshou vanishes after Chousha defeats him. I’m not sure if Hara would actually have Koshou die when Chousha defeats him, but he could totally get away with it.

Conversely, Chousha defeating Koshou was his last act as a general, he dies in his sleep a few years later.

….But what if Hara uses this opportunity to hype Shouheikun. Lol

What if after Koshou is slain, Shouheikun rallies the remaining Qin army and then turns around and defeats and kills Chousha?

Hear me out:

For Ryofui to choose Shouheikun as the head of the Qin military, Shouheikun would actually have to demonstrate that he himself was of GG caliber correct? How could Shouheikun do this? Well, defeating other Great Generals himself would put him in that conversation right? Well, historically the big boy his master Koshou faced was Chousha. So would this be his big chance to flex?

Idk I doubt Hara would have Chousha go out like that, but there’s still the question of why Shouheikun earned such a crazy reputation for himself, and why Ryofui thought he could lead the whole Qin military to begin with.

Shouheikun has been the Chief of Qin's Military Affairs from day 1. And when Ouki said Moubu had a great understanding of warfare, he speculated that this might have been due to him just growing together with Shouheikun lol.

But I doubt Shouheikun did what you wrote here. Even Ouki didn't seem that knowledgeable of Shouheikun. I think we would have gotten more out of his thoughts had Shouheikun actually done the above.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

For the record, I still highly doubt the statements about Jiaga and Jyoukaryuu being the strongest includes Shibashou. I guess it could but when Jiaga spoke to Kansaro, it was as if Jiaga thought Shibashou falling in battle was impossible. I guess it’s possible but I think Shibashou is excluded from the Jiaga vs Jyoukaryuu debate lol.

Anyway.

Spoiler: Chousha

Alright so iirc, Chousha defeated Koshou by ambushing him during the night time. Probably what would inspire IRL Houken to utilize nighttime tactics in his battles, and probably why Hara has drawn Houken attacking at night so much lol.

Anyway, so I’m with you that Chousha should be different from Renpa and Rinshoujou, Choukatsu was physically quite large so Chousha himself was probably a hybrid martial general like Renpa.

As for what type of general he was, I could see it a couple of different ways.

The “Chou” family seems like a highly famous family in Zhao, which means Chousha was either born into an already prominent family like Ousen, or he himself was the one who raised the Chou house to glory like Mougou.

If Chousha was born into an already prominent family, he was probably formally trained in warfare since his family would have paid to have him trained like Ouki and Ouhon. Which would probably reduce the chances of him being an instinctual type since he would be more likely to be a formally trained strategist like Rinshoujou.

If Chousha didn’t receive formal training like Duke Hyou, I could see him honing instincts on the battlefield. Or maybe he was like Renpa, who seemed to have built a martial reputation for himself on the battlefield before Genpou took him in as a student. Though I wouldn’t like this as it would make Renpa less unique as I don’t think Renpa was from some famous family.

Alright so here is my speculation on Chousha:

The battle that Chousha defeated Koshou was actually one that wasn’t supposed to happen initially. The King of Zhao called Renpa to Kantan to discuss with him how to stop the Qin’s advance. Renpa recommended the Zhao face Koshou at a specific location, and then Chousha comes in and tells the Zhao King that they should not face Koshou where Renpa says they should, and instead recommends they face Koshou earlier. Renpa tells the Zhao King he does not recommend Chousha’s plan.

Ultimately the Zhao King decides to go with Chousha’s plan, and this is when Chousha defeats Koshou.

To me, this whole conversation makes me think Chousha already came from a prominent family, because he had the political skill to persuade the Zhao King to go against Renpa’s judgment and let him face Koshou on his terms. To me, this makes me think Chousha was already highly familiar with nobility politics and how to interact with royalty and persuade them of your plan. Furthermore, Renpa’s inability to persuade the Zhao King, Hara would probably attribute this to Renpa not having a highborn background. Probably. I could just be talking out of my ass but this is always how I saw Renpa.

So if my little theory is true, then this would seem to make Chousha a formally educated strategist similar to Rinshoujou, but was also a born warrior and was also combat trained and could fight if he needed to.

Plus night time raiding seems like really advanced strategy to me. I don’t see a Duke Hyou coming up with a night time attack, it’s been established in Kingdom that even commanders like Riboku are heavily weary of attacking during the night. For Chousha to defeat a 6GG during the night would hype how deep his knowledge of warfare actually ran.

Anyway. Just my two cents.

Okay fair, I always found it odd when Jiaga being the "strongest" general of Seika when he got done in by Shiryou, the same Shiryou that was hesitated to jump at Shibashou lol.

Spoiler: Chousha

Okay you know what, I take it back about Chousha not being a strategic type for me. Your post convinces me that Chousha could be a strategic general if he is indeed born into a wealthy military family which is very likely tbh. Chou Kotsu is considered a hero of Zhao in one of the more recent chapters and I doubt they would call him that if he wasn't a military noble or something. Then again, Rinshoujo got called a "Hero" too and RSJ was born an orphan or poor in the flashback with Gyou'Un and others so that kinda contradicted my points but you get the idea lol.

But with RSJ, he is a Great Heaven so that would excuse him from not being born into a wealthy family. Chou Kotsu is probably a General or Great General at best imo. But yeah, if Chousha wasn't born into a wealthy family and trained himself in warfare like Duke then the chances of him being an Instinctual is pretty high.

Chousha attacking at night is an insane feat. Only Riboku does this as well but he's even wary but gigaman Chousha was like, "Shit fuck it, we're doing it at night, boys." Lol.

He might be similar to Kanki as well tbh. No military knowledge and uses unorthodox methods (attacking at night) to accomplish his goals. Or he could still have tons of military knowledge but still be capable of using unorthodox methods like Karin of Chu. Lots of speculations for this lad.

lol, that’s why I’ve been telling yall, Chousha is crazy. Truly he was worthy of carrying the 3GH name. Or rather, it’s the newer 3GHs that need to live up to his legacy. So far they all have.

I think Renpa was probably a younger 3GH when Chousha showed up and schooled him like that lol. I don’t see Sanyou Renpa getting schooled in that manner. And this was pre-Chouhei so Renpa was definitely not in his peak form yet.




LOL. I can’t remember if I ever posted this on WorstGen…I think I did…but:

Spoiler

So, historically Koshou vanishes after Chousha defeats him. I’m not sure if Hara would actually have Koshou die when Chousha defeats him, but he could totally get away with it.

Conversely, Chousha defeating Koshou was his last act as a general, he dies in his sleep a few years later.

….But what if Hara uses this opportunity to hype Shouheikun. Lol

What if after Koshou is slain, Shouheikun rallies the remaining Qin army and then turns around and defeats and kills Chousha?

Hear me out:

For Ryofui to choose Shouheikun as the head of the Qin military, Shouheikun would actually have to demonstrate that he himself was of GG caliber correct? How could Shouheikun do this? Well, defeating other Great Generals himself would put him in that conversation right? Well, historically the big boy his master Koshou faced was Chousha. So would this be his big chance to flex?

Idk I doubt Hara would have Chousha go out like that, but there’s still the question of why Shouheikun earned such a crazy reputation for himself, and why Ryofui thought he could lead the whole Qin military to begin with.

Spoiler: Shouheikun vs Chousha

Holy fuck, if SHK was actually the one that kills Chousha to avenge the loss of Koshou, that would be nuts Lol.

Koshou’s army would be stacked as hell if this was true lol. Even young Moubu and Shouheikun would’ve been a scary combo for a Koshou level mind.

Anyway @Warchief Sanji D Goat another point I forgot to make:

When it comes to Great Generals, guys like Houken who only have one single thing they specialize in (martial might) are extremely rare.

Look at Rinshoujou: Not only was his mind hyped up severely, but he also had the charisma of a great king and attracted many powerful warriors to his cause, and they were so die hard loyal to him, 8 of them killed themselves when he died.

So you could say Rinshoujou had nearly maxed out intelligence and nearly maxed out on leadership.

Look at Riboku: his mind and his strategies have been hyped severely, but Riboku is also one of the best leaders in the manga. Hara gave him a 100 IQ stat, which almost overshadows his 99 Leadership stat. Literally Riboku is a leader practically on par with Gakuki himself, rivaling Yotanwa herself, and this isn’t even Riboku’s dominant stat. Riboku can galvanize foreign armies with his speeches and always attracts the most powerful commanders to his cause.

So again we see this idea of specialist generals like Riboku and Rinshoujou, actually specializing in two aspects of warfare and not just one. Really you could say Riboku and Rinshoujou are maxed out in all three aspects of warfare, since Rinshoujou had his ten heroes and Riboku is always going into battle with some martial nutcases in front of him.

To be a legit Great General of the Heavens (Zhao3/Qin6/Wei7) you really need to be incredible in all three aspects of warfare (strength, intelligence, leadership). The GGs who only have one of these stats at a high level literally would not exist if Houken didn’t exist.

True Great Generals like Renpa and Ouki fill all of these rolls by themselves. Renpa’s leadership is so high, he can awaken foreign armies just with his presence. His mind is so great that he can go blow for blow with guys like Ousen himself. And his personal martial strength is so high that he is one of the absolute best warriors in the history of Zhao. He fills all three rolls without needing a single subordinate to compensate for his weaknesses.

I say all this to say that to me, I never saw Shibashou as a pure warrior and I know a lot of others never saw him this way either. As soon as we found out that Shibashou was the Lord of his own city and was in fact a traditional commander and not some anomaly like Houken, the chances of this guy being a mindless warrior went out of the window.

Now I definitely think martial might will be Shibashou’s defining trait as a commander, I don’t think Shibashou would be a 3GH if he wasn’t an 8 foot tall monster, but I definitely never saw him as a pure warrior with nothing else. And I think Hara highlighting Shibashou’s leadership and to an extent his strategic/tactical awareness before he hyped his martial prowess confirms this.

As to exactly what type of general Shibashou will be, I actually think the probability of him being an instinctual is very high, and I don’t usually say that about other commanders. I think Ouki was a strategic type for example. But with Shibashou, I think instincts is probably what we’ll see from him. And I think there are lore reasons behind this:

Firstly, I don’t think Shibashou is from a famous military family. I mean I guess he could be distantly related to Shibasaku or something, but you have to wonder how this guy came to Lord over a “newly established” city like Seika if this guy was from some famous military family already.

No, I think Hara has already teased that Shibashou is from the north and spent his “youth” battling the Xiongnu. Who were this guy’s parents? I have no clue, he could be the child of some prodigious northern warrior/s who we’ve never heard of, or he could just be an anomalous birth (unlikely).

But I think if Shibashou spent his youth on the battlefield and not receiving some formal training, then it would’ve been battlefield instincts that he developed and not a strategists mind lol. I think he’s sharp enough to be able to follow Riboku’s plans perfectly, and also sharp enough to read the battlefield itself on his own, similar to Bananji. Will we see his instincts? I have no idea lol.

Okay so here’s another idea that popped into my head recently: what if Ousen retreats to a mountain fortress similar to Sanyou, and what if Shibashou, instead of holding position like Renpa did, attacks his mountain fortress like Ordo did? If Shibashou is from the north, he should be well versed in mountain warfare and we may see his instincts/martial might against one of Ousen’s “perfect” mountain fortresses.

Okay this post is long enough good lord lol.

Agreed with what you said about Riboku, RSJ and Renpa.

I didn't say Shibashou was just a pure warrior. I think that he is well versed in military knowledge and tactics as well. Just that his martial might is the primary strength for him. Even if Shibashou is not Instinctual, I still think he can be a well rounded general like Ouki and Tou who never got labeled as "Strategical" nor "Instinctual" in the first place. They're really smart on their own and are top tiers in martial prowess. I wouldn't mind if SBS falls under this category.

Yeah, I don't think SBS comes from a wealthy military family either. I like your theory of SBS being from the North better. Imagine in his youth, SBS is just like Earl Shi but unlike Earl Shi that fought enemy soldiers of other states in his youth, every enemies of SBS is fucking Xiongnu LOL!!!

And then SBS honed his Instincts on the battlefield itself like Duke. Would be crazy. I do think Bananji has Instinctual ability or at least hint of it.

Hope Ousen actually pulls out his fortress against Shibashou. It's such a waste that we didn't see Renpa charge on it in Sanyou. If SBS is pure Instinctual, he should be able to break through Ousen's fortress. But fingers crossed.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Okay fair, I always found it odd when Jiaga being the "strongest" general of Seika when he got done in by Shiryou, the same Shiryou that was hesitated to jump at Shibashou lol.

Spoiler: Chousha

Okay you know what, I take it back about Chousha not being a strategic type for me. Your post convinces me that Chousha could be a strategic general if he is indeed born into a wealthy military family which is very likely tbh. Chou Kotsu is considered a hero of Zhao in one of the more recent chapters and I doubt they would call him that if he wasn't a military noble or something. Then again, Rinshoujo got called a "Hero" too and RSJ was born an orphan or poor in the flashback with Gyou'Un and others so that kinda contradicted my points but you get the idea lol.

But with RSJ, he is a Great Heaven so that would excuse him from not being born into a wealthy family. Chou Kotsu is probably a General or Great General at best imo. But yeah, if Chousha wasn't born into a wealthy family and trained himself in warfare like Duke then the chances of him being an Instinctual is pretty high.

Chousha attacking at night is an insane feat. Only Riboku does this as well but he's even wary but gigaman Chousha was like, "Shit fuck it, we're doing it at night, boys." Lol.

He might be similar to Kanki as well tbh. No military knowledge and uses unorthodox methods (attacking at night) to accomplish his goals. Or he could still have tons of military knowledge but still be capable of using unorthodox methods like Karin of Chu. Lots of speculations for this lad.

Spoiler: Shouheikun vs Chousha

Holy fuck, if SHK was actually the one that kills Chousha to avenge the loss of Koshou, that would be nuts Lol.

Agreed with what you said about Riboku, RSJ and Renpa.

I didn't say Shibashou was just a pure warrior. I think that he is well versed in military knowledge and tactics as well. Just that his martial might is the primary strength for him. Even if Shibashou is not Instinctual, I still think he can be a well rounded general like Ouki and Tou who never got labeled as "Strategical" nor "Instinctual" in the first place. They're really smart on their own and are top tiers in martial prowess. I wouldn't mind if SBS falls under this category.

Yeah, I don't think SBS comes from a wealthy military family either. I like your theory of SBS being from the North better. Imagine in his youth, SBS is just like Earl Shi but unlike Earl Shi that fought enemy soldiers of other states in his youth, every enemies of SBS is fucking Xiongnu LOL!!!

And then SBS honed his Instincts on the battlefield itself like Duke. Would be crazy. I do think Bananji has Instinctual ability or at least hint of it.

Hope Ousen actually pulls out his fortress against Shibashou. It's such a waste that we didn't see Renpa charge on it in Sanyou. If SBS is pure Instinctual, he should be able to break through Ousen's fortress. But fingers crossed.

I know you didn’t say it about Shibashou lol but I’ve seen others say it.

As for Rinshoujou, Rinshoujou was born nobility iirc. His Ten Heroes were referred to as the “Ten Heroes of the Rin family” and Rinshoujou was definitely not old enough to start his own family lol.

This is why I think Renpa and Rinshoujou didn’t like each other at first. Rinshoujou being a born noble who became a 3GH because his rich ass family paid for him to learn warfare and could employ the Ten Heroes and all that, while Renpa was a born warrior who was never given anything that he didn’t earn on the battlefield with his Glaive in hand.

For those who don’t know, Rinshoujou and Renpa irl fucking hated each other for a long time before they ultimately became the best of friends. I’m not going to recount that whole story here but go read up on it when you’ve got time, one of my favorite historical stories is the story of how blood rivals Rinshoujou and Renpa became best friends lol.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

I know you didn’t say it about Shibashou lol but I’ve seen others say it.

As for Rinshoujou, Rinshoujou was born nobility iirc. His Ten Heroes were referred to as the “Ten Heroes of the Rin family” and Rinshoujou was definitely not old enough to start his own family lol.

This is why I think Renpa and Rinshoujou didn’t like each other at first. Rinshoujou being a born noble who became a 3GH because his rich ass family paid for him to learn warfare and could employ the Ten Heroes and all that, while Renpa was a born warrior who was never given anything that he didn’t earn on the battlefield with his Glaive in hand.

For those who don’t know, Rinshoujou and Renpa irl fucking hated each other for a long time before they ultimately became the best of friends. I’m not going to recount that whole story here but go read up on it when you’ve got time, one of my favorite historical stories is the story of how blood rivals Rinshoujou and Renpa became best friends lol.

I remember in some chapters (don't remember which specific chapter it was though) that there was a flashback of kid RSJ met with Gyou'Un and Chougaryuu who were war orphans and there's panels sequence of them growing up together.

It was before the panel I posted above here but don't remember which.