Speculations Zoro’s path of Suffering: The next power up is Ashura

#1
I want to applaud Oda’s efforts with Zoro’s training this arc. Aside from showing Zoro’s general mastery of sword styles such as copying Kin’emon’s entire style just by seeing it used twice, Oda introduced Enma as a unique training mechanism for Zoro. We even see onscreen progression with Enma starting from Zoro’s arm getting drained on first use, to him being winded from one Sword slash, to Zoro performing attacks without him displaying any exasperation at all.

Without any exposition such as the many panels of Hyogoro telling Luffy how Ryuo works, Oda simply had Zoro progress onscreen with the one initial statement of Enma drains its users Haki excessively so to use it, your haki just has to improve by force.

Now I believe Oda has given us the next initial statement for the next power up now that Zoro is no longer getting affected by Enma. It’s this


When Zoro gets up, he’s gonna be at half endurance due to the side effects of the drug doubling the effects of the damage he takes.

This brings up a common theory regarding this


An Alternate translation for this is “Suffering is good on the Path of Carnage”. This translation was used to connect to the Ashura mythology itself. Ashura are the form a soul in the Path of demons reincarnates as and must Suffer in order to reincarnate to the higher Path of Humans.

Basically the theory was that Zoro has to suffer massive pain and suffering before it culminates as the Ashura form.

I never believed this theory myself because it was too gimmicky and sounded very Deus Ex Machina, like every serious fight Zoro had must end the same way, Ashura.

But now that it seems like Oda could be going into certain details with Ashura, and the way Oda handled Enma as a training mechanism through it actively affecting Zoro in battle. Now with the question around Supreme King Haki, and the introduction of this Double damage effect, I’m starting to see a way this theory could work without it being a gimmick.

My assertion is that ready use of Ashura is the next power up Zoro is going to obtain. And he is going to obtain it by being forced to use it rather quickly due to this Double damage effect.

In chapter 1010, Zoro uses Ashura and Supreme King Haki is brought up by Kaido and Zoro has no idea. I believe Zoro is going to be taking double damage so that he can reach the suffering threshold that allows for Ashura and then he can find out for himself how Ashura connects to Supreme King Haki. After learning what exactly it is, Zoro will be able to access his Supreme King Haki, and Ashura MUCH more readily than ever before.

There is already a precedent for Zoro unlocking a Haki ability at deaths door and having to train to use it readily


The difference here between Supreme King’s haki and the Haki Zoro learned in Alabasta is that Zoro Already knew what he was doing in Alabasta even before he did it while in Wano, Kaido is the one who had to tell Zoro he used Supreme King’s haki.

Therefore Oda is setting up one more Ashura use this time with Zoro aware of his Supreme King’s haki and since Oda isn’t going to have Zoro face another combo Yonko attack, He is instead reducing Zoro’s endurance so that he gets to Ashura faster.

And after it’s all said and done, Ashura will work more like G4, where it’s still a massive drain but he doesn’t have to use it only when having sustained massive damage.
 
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#4
zoro already achieved enlightenment in the form of the knowledge of his possession of conqueror's haki.
all that's left for him now is to ascend to another level of strength.
people think that asura can only be used to deliver one finishing blow as it consume all of zoro's power, wich is wrong, only enma does that, besides if that was the case we would've seen side effects of using enma on zoro after he used asura pre timeskip.
another misconception people have about enma, they think it's a training tool, but that's not the case, well, not in the traditional sense of the word, zoro needs to get used to the draining effect of enma, and that would mean that his attacks would be as strong as the time when he cut the cliff with a casual swing
that's why even when zoro supposedly used all of his power in asura he didn't get drained like the first time when he used enma.
 
#6
zoro already achieved enlightenment in the form of the knowledge of his possession of conqueror's haki.
all that's left for him now is to ascend to another level of strength.
people think that asura can only be used to deliver one finishing blow as it consume all of zoro's power, wich is wrong, only enma does that, besides if that was the case we would've seen side effects of using enma on zoro after he used asura pre timeskip.
another misconception people have about enma, they think it's a training tool, but that's not the case, well, not in the traditional sense of the word, zoro needs to get used to the draining effect of enma, and that would mean that his attacks would be as strong as the time when he cut the cliff with a casual swing
that's why even when zoro supposedly used all of his power in asura he didn't get drained like the first time when he used enma.
Lmao thats not enlightenment. Zoro not going to get true enlightenment till he fights Mihawk. Right now he going through the paths. Oda is making him suffer more than ever so he unlocks hell realm or powers up Ashura cause its the path of suffering
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#7
I think Zoro can use Asura whenever he wants, it is simple storytelling why he doesnt use it in every battle or at the start of it.
What would be the point? Zoro's fights ending in 1 page? You have to understand that someone needs to fight against that god mode.
And good luck with that. It is simply not fair for his opponents so I think it will not become more common.

It was used in two arcs in pre-TS and my guess is that it will be used in two arcs in post-TS as well.
Zoro is primarily a Santoryu swordsman, not Kyutoryu, despite it being his best move.
The use of Asura pattern is clear - it appears against overwhelming combat style(Kaku) and hard-to-cut opponents(Kaido+PX4).

Based on that pattern, it will appear next time against an opponent who can overwhelm Zoro's Santoryu, just like Kaku did.
My guess is it will be Kizaru, I explained several times why... Also, this 2x pain will probably be an epic moment like Nothing Happened.
Not sure if there is any benefit to be gained from it, just like there wasnt any in Thriller Bark. We will see.

I am not expecting much from CoC coating on Zoro, the real goal is a Black Blade. Zoro isnt following the same path as other mortals.
Only the strongest can coat themselves into CoC but Zoro is going to stand above all of them. Besides, there is only one body like Kaido's, I dont understand the point of boosting Zoro's firepower as it doesnt seem necessary in the future...
 
#8
I think Zoro can use Asura whenever he wants, it is simple storytelling why he doesnt use it in every battle or at the start of it.
That’s what I thought too, until this CoC business was brought up

If first of all, Ashura is connected to CoC and secondly Zoro literally didn’t even know this or know he has CoC until 1010, then Zoro definitely couldn’t use Ashura willingly

I also believed Zoro could use Ashura whenever he wanted BEFORE we learned that Zoro didn’t even know certain aspects about it himself… Of course this is entirely based on Ashura having to do with CoC… If it doesn’t then it’s up in the air again
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do see Asura being a one time power up in tight situations.
@matt245 But that’s the thing, now that we actually getting into the nitty gritty of what Ashura is, it can be whatever now.

If Ashura is some form of haki then it will have to work as a form of haki… There is no haki ability so far that can only be used once a fight. Even advanced haki like Future sight can spammed for 11 hour fights non stop…

if it’s revealed Ashura is CoC related and again Zoro can only use it once then this is just deliberate nerfing of the highest degree. We are seeing Luffy and Kaido spamming advanced CoC and Zoro for whatever reason can only use his Once? That’s ridiculous levels of nerfing

Once we actually get into what Ashura is in detail, we shall determine how it will be applied in combat
 
#9
I want to applaud Oda’s efforts with Zoro’s training this arc. Aside from showing Zoro’s general mastery of sword styles such as copying Kin’emon’s entire style just by seeing it used twice, Oda introduced Enma as a unique training mechanism for Zoro. We even see onscreen progression with Enma starting from Zoro’s arm getting drained on first use, to him being winded from one Sword slash, to Zoro performing attacks without him displaying any exasperation at all.

Without any exposition such as the many panels of Hyogoro telling Luffy how Ryuo works, Oda simply had Zoro progress onscreen with the one initial statement of Enma drains its users Haki excessively so to use it, your haki just has to improve by force.

Now I believe Oda has given us the next initial statement for the next power up now that Zoro is no longer getting affected by Enma. It’s this


When Zoro gets up, he’s gonna be at half endurance due to the side effects of the drug doubling the effects of the damage he takes.

This brings up a common theory regarding this


An Alternate translation for this is “Suffering is good on the Path of Carnage”. This translation was used to connect to the Ashura mythology itself. Ashura are the form a soul in the Path of demons reincarnates as and must Suffer in order to reincarnate to the higher Path of Humans.

Basically the theory was that Zoro has to suffer massive pain and suffering before it culminates as the Ashura form.

I never believed this theory myself because it was too gimmicky and sounded very Deus Ex Machina, like every serious fight Zoro had must end the same way, Ashura.

But now that it seems like Oda could be going into certain details with Ashura, and the way Oda handled Enma as a training mechanism through it actively affecting Zoro in battle. Now with the question around Supreme King Haki, and the introduction of this Double damage effect, I’m starting to see a way this theory could work without it being a gimmick.

My assertion is that ready use of Ashura is the next power up Zoro is going to obtain. And he is going to obtain it by being forced to use it rather quickly due to this Double damage effect.

In chapter 1010, Zoro uses Ashura and Supreme King Haki is brought up by Kaido and Zoro has no idea. I believe Zoro is going to be taking double damage so that he can reach the suffering threshold that allows for Ashura and then he can find out for himself how Ashura connects to Supreme King Haki. After learning what exactly it is, Zoro will be able to access his Supreme King Haki, and Ashura MUCH more readily than ever before.

There is already a precedent for Zoro unlocking a Haki ability at deaths door and having to train to use it readily


The difference here between Supreme King’s haki and the Haki Zoro learned in Alabasta is that Zoro Already knew what he was doing in Alabasta even before he did it while in Wano, Kaido is the one who had to tell Zoro he used Supreme King’s haki.

Therefore Oda is setting up one more Ashura use this time with Zoro aware of his Supreme King’s haki and since Oda isn’t going to have Zoro face another combo Yonko attack, He is instead reducing Zoro’s endurance so that he gets to Ashura faster.

And after it’s all said and done, Ashura will work more like G4, where it’s still a massive drain but he doesn’t have to use it only when having sustained massive damage.
Zoro has physically suffered the most among all the SHs, yes... he has been in death's door many times
*btw Zoro learned cutting fire from Kinemon, he hasnt yet demonstrated fire releasing sword techniques of Kinemon (not talking about the one time convenient fire release against Ryuma corps)
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1: first intro, Being tortured and not given water and food by captain morgan
2: Against Mihawk and Yoru Beginning of Series
3: against Mr. 1
4: against Kuma
5: Against Kizaru
6: against Mihawk, Zoro was the only one who came with a permanent injury after TimeSkip (losing one eye)
7: against Kaido and BigMom
 
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#13
dragon blaze on roof top had fire on it
zoro can use kin s fire shit ofc he can now coat his swords on fire to
thats the same technique he used on Ryuma....I am talking about beside that attack
There was no other sword move which had fire on it, not even Asura when Kinnemom can easily fire up his swords on any occassion and zoro never done that except the attack used on ryuma (same as the one used on rooftop)
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#14
That’s what I thought too, until this CoC business was brought up

If first of all, Ashura is connected to CoC and secondly Zoro literally didn’t even know this or know he has CoC until 1010, then Zoro definitely couldn’t use Ashura willingly

I also believed Zoro could use Ashura whenever he wanted BEFORE we learned that Zoro didn’t even know certain aspects about it himself… Of course this is entirely based on Ashura having to do with CoC… If it doesn’t then it’s up in the air again
The main reason why I think it wont become more common is because the opponents are unable to fight against it(too overwhelming) and it gives more hype to Kyutoryu than to Santoryu which has always been Zoro's signature sword style.
 
#16
The main reason why I think it wont become more common is because the opponents are unable to fight against it(too overwhelming) and it gives more hype to Kyutoryu than to Santoryu which has always been Zoro's signature sword style.
Well Kaido seems able to fight against it. Should Zoro eventually become stronger than Kaido? I doubt he would be able to do that without having ready use of Ashura
 

nik87

Kitetsu Wanker
#17
Well Kaido seems able to fight against it. Should Zoro eventually become stronger than Kaido? I doubt he would be able to do that without having ready use of Ashura
Well yes, his ability to fight against Asura is him relying on the hardness of his body and we know that cant last long vs Zoro...
One PU in firepower section and that ability to fight against Asura is gone...
Kaido is unique, other people dont have such a tough body so Asura will always be overkill.
Regarding Zoro becoming stronger than Kaido, I dont doubt it, the question is when Oda wants to make it known.
 
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