General & Others Zoro and Sanji, Wings of Pirate King

[[No Name]]

It's funny to see both sides with their extremes.

Sanji fans going to crazy lengths to make it only about strength, so it must mean that Sanji = Zoro.

Zoro fans going to crazy lengths to drain out all the implications of strength from being one of Luffy's top two dudes.

I said the same in the other topic, lmao.
You and I are really alike as Sanji fans I have to say.

 

[BidaPowersTV]

Since you guys are reading and arguing based on this translation, you might want to know what the translator had to say about this at the end of the chapter, in the Chapter Notes :

Basically Robin is saying the exact same thing Oda did back in the SBS, and since she's refering to Sanji specifically, the translator called him "One of the Wings" to account for Zoro not being the focus of this particular piece of dialogue. Zoro is the other one.


Also, i honestly don't like the toxicity in the thread made to discuss this moment, with the very opening post starting with a premise that invites such toxicity by claiming that this is evidence for Sanji = Zoro in strength.

This does not prove that, let's be clear and honest with that.

Let's be clear with what it does prove as well though, and that's that Zoro and Sanji are exceptional within the crew and stand out above the rest

So no, it doesn't mean Sanji = Zoro. At least not when you narrow it down to just strength. Yes, it does mean that Zoro and Sanji > others.

Its a metaphor or something its like an angel with wings luffy cant fly if one is missing

 

[Zowo]

kuro ashi is a fraud
it means zoro=sanji

 

[Kuro Ashi]

It's funny how Oda had Robin saying :

Sanji is the wings of the PK without saying he is one of them or mentioning someone else beside him and they push Zoro there insecurity in its full effect

The full chapter translation available says one of the wings and on top of that brings attention to the SBS about Zoro and Sanji. So i guess you're calling him insecure and biased

sandman insecure and biased

as well as the many other japanese readers who brought this up immediately after the panel leaked.


I don't get this push to dissociate Zoro and Sanji as if they are characters of different mangas and not outstanding members of the same crew who share a unique dynamic.

 

[Shanal]

sandman clarified that a while back

basically the term used in japanese is never used to describe a single person, and it is the exact same word used in the SBS that the translator of the chapter also mentions in his notes.

It's just one of those cases when making that transition from japanese to english is a bit odd, because it's harder to make it about the one person while still leaving the implications of another, which the japanese text does naturally.

The wording used is 両翼 (as stated by sandman). It's Ryōyoku.

It's... really not that special of a text.

Something like: 鳥は両翼を広げた (Or, the bird spread its wings) can be stated commonly.

Titles such as "Akuma no Ryōyoku" are also very common. Casually using it as wings; it's one of the titles of Eyeshield 21 episodes, for example.

It literally just means two wings. It can be used to- and is generally used to describe 2 characters but that logic is ONLY viable if two characters are being stated and called that term. Otherwise it's just nonsensical lol... idk how Zoro is relevant to what Robin said when her entire thing was about calling Sanji "both wings".

I've also talked to bunch of Japanese speakers and they didn't call it anything special, either.

It's not a bad translation, at all. Even in English, you'd usually say "Potato is my wings!" and not "Potato is my two wings!". This is similar- the second one is a bit odd, but it's still about potato. Randomly shoving someone else into it makes no sense.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Both sides took this wayyyy too far.

It’s saying that The Monster Trio is still going strong where Zoro and Sanji raise Luffy up.

Yea it’s referring to Oda calling Zoro and Sanji the wings of the pirate king. Wings and flight are very common metaphors for freedom. So Zoro and Sanji being the two to carry Luffy to his dream of being the freest man in the world is incredibly fitting.

It’s not saying Zoro = Sanji; however, it does show that Oda isn’t abandoning the monster trio and that Sanji will do important things this arc as well.

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

Dude. The issue lies in the translation from Japanese to English. It can't be translated literally. This happens a lot with languages that are entirely unrelated.

Lmao Sandman said the same shit about Zoro speech about Slaying Kaido when he confronted Queen and Stephen paul denied that shit who is a professional translator

On the top of that he is just assuming things read what he said there

• The speech was translated by Japanese translators here :

Sanji is the PK wings .

• Sanji fans :
Let's add Zoro there

 

[Ballel]

idk how Zoro is relevant to what Robin said when her entire thing was about calling Sanji "both wings".

The SBS mentioned both

 

[kumae]

I like this kind of threads where we don't talk bullshit about strenght or anything like that
Obviously I take Sandman side but this is referring that both are luffy's most trusted members doesn't have to do anything with strenght
It clearly represents Rogers crew hierarcy
Luffy=Roger
Zoro=Rayleigh
Sanji=Gaban

 

[Kuro Ashi]

The wording used is 両翼 (as stated by sandman). It's Ryōyoku.

It's... really not that special of a text.

Something like: 鳥は両翼を広げた (Or, the bird spread its wings) can be stated commonly.

It literally just means two wings. It can be used to- and is generally used to describe 2 characters but that logic is ONLY viable if two characters are being stated and called that term. Otherwise it's just nonsensical lol... idk how Zoro is relevant to what Robin said when her entire thing was about calling Sanji "both wings".

But the english translation available outright calls Sanji "one of the wings" in an attempt to make it work in english, because he sees the exact same implications sandman does from that text.

And according to sandman

"I've never seen the case where 両翼 is used to describe one person in my life"



So both the chapter translator using " one of the wings" and sandman agree that

"it's safe to assume that Robin mean Sanji and "another person" being important to PK"

 

[Ballel]

Lmao Sandman said the same shit about Zoro speech about Slaying Kaido when he confronted Queen and Stephen paul denied that shit who is a professional translator

On the top of that he is just assuming things read what he said there

• The speech was translated by Japanese translators here :

Sanji is the PK wings .

• Sanji fans :
Let's add Zoro there

The SBS with Oda stating the same thing sandman said. Remember?

 

[Shanal]

But the english translation available outright calls Sanji "one of the wings" in an attempt to make it work in english, because he sees the exact same implications sandman does from that text.

And according to sandman

"I've never seen the case where 両翼 is used to describe one person in my life"



So both the chapter translator using " one of the wings" and sandman agree that

"it's safe to assume that Robin mean Sanji and "another person" being important to PK"

Again, translation is accurate.

Even in English, you'd say "Potato is my wings!"

You'd normally not say "Potato is my two wings!"

I've never once in my life seen the latter being used two describe a single person in comics or so, either. But that doesn't mean they're talking about potato and someone else if they say "Potato is my two wings!"

It's an odd way to put it, but claiming that it includes Zoro somewhere in the statement of SANJI being called two wings is completely nonsensical unless he is mentioned, as well.

But the english translation available outright calls Sanji "one of the wings" in an attempt to make it work in english, because he sees the exact same implications sandman does from that text.

The translation state up said that they did it because it seemed like a throwback to the Databook statement. Really far from proper reasoning.

By that logic, would you agree that Robin was simply calling Sanji the wings and nothing else if official translators say it as such? I'm fairly certain that's the conclusion they'd reach to- the people trying to refer to it as "One of the two wings" are really trying to stretch and twist entire wording.

 

[Roronoa-sama]

sanji and jinbei is wing

 

[Ballel]

Again, translation is accurate.

Even in English, you'd say "Potato is my wings!"

You'd normally not say "Potato is my two wings!"

I've never once in my life seen the latter being used two describe a single person in comics or so, either. But that doesn't mean they're talking about potato and someone else if they say "Potato is my two wings!"

It's an odd way to put it, but claiming that it includes Zoro somewhere in the statement of SANJI being called two wings is completely nonsensical unless he is mentioned, as well.



The translation state up said that they did it because it seemed like a throwback to the Databook statement. Really far from proper reasoning.

By that logic, would you agree that Robin was simply calling Sanji the wings and nothing else if official translators say it as such? I'm fairly certain that's the conclusion they'd reach to- the people trying to refer to it as "One of the two wings" are really trying to stretch and twist entire wording.

Completely ignoring Oda's own words. Sike

 

[Karma]

Luffy=Roger
Zoro=Rayleigh
Sanji=Gaban

Lufy = Gol D
Zoro = Silvers
Sanji = Scopper

 

[Shanal]

Completely ignoring Oda's own words. Sike

The Databook one? I acknowledged it. Just saying what happened this chapter is irrelevant to that thing.

Not that it matters much. Zoro and Sanji being Luffy's main men has been obvious since chapter 100 or something

 

[Ballel]

The Databook one? I acknowledged it. Just saying what happened this chapter is irrelevant to that thing.

Not that it matters much. Zoro and Sanji being Luffy's main men has been obvious since chapter 100 or something

Same expression tho. Doesn't matter if it is said in a chapter or by Oda directly, Sanji and Zoro are Luffy's top guys.

 

[Sir Yasheen]

Again, translation is accurate.

Even in English, you'd say "Potato is my wings!"

You'd normally not say "Potato is my two wings!"

I've never once in my life seen the latter being used two describe a single person in comics or so, either. But that doesn't mean they're talking about potato and someone else if they say "Potato is my two wings!"

It's an odd way to put it, but claiming that it includes Zoro somewhere in the statement of SANJI being called two wings is completely nonsensical unless he is mentioned, as well.



The translation state up said that they did it because it seemed like a throwback to the Databook statement. Really far from proper reasoning.

By that logic, would you agree that Robin was simply calling Sanji the wings and nothing else if official translators say it as such? I'm fairly certain that's the conclusion they'd reach to- the people trying to refer to it as "One of the two wings" are really trying to stretch and twist entire wording.

Japanese rules between multiple and single is not as simple as english where as they are based on context the words are used. The kanji can mean “a wing” or “the wings.” English translation is typically more accurate than the spoilers anyways.

 

[Ballel]

Japanese rules between multiple and single is not as simple as english where as they are based on context the words are used. The kanji can mean “a wing” or “the wings.” English translation is typically more accurate than the spoilers anyways.

It makes it even harder that Japanese has no grammatical plural in the sense that English has it.

English in itself is actually not a very complex language when it comes to grammar.

 

[Fleet Leader Fenaker]

The full chapter translation available says one of the wings and on top of that brings attention to the SBS about Zoro and Sanji. So i guess you're calling him insecure and biased

sandman insecure and biased

as well as the many other japanese readers who brought this up immediately after the panel leaked.


I don't get this push to dissociate Zoro and Sanji as if they are characters of different mangas and not outstanding members of the same crew who share a unique dynamic.

• Since you like your sandman a lot let's debunk ur shits :

• Sandman :
- A japanese native :
Zoro said he will slay / kill Kaido

• Stephen paul :
- a professional translator :
He didn't say that

Now let's see other translators :

• Redon :

• Ivaanam who translated the second highest bounty confusion :
+ Aknolagon

• Now you like that sbs isn't it ?

Sbs :

From Franky is the father of the crew

To Jinbei Father of the crew

I like how you are going full damage controlu while Robin said :

Sanji is the PK wings

And you try to post ppl assuming things lmao He himself isn't sure and you try to make it 100%