Speculations Zoro. Mihawk. Conqueror.

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

An example is to use it as you wish. MF Luffy use it uncounsciously or just use it without putting down your foes and your allies like in MF with WBP.
So for you Ashura isn't CoC or he never use Ashura since T-S ?

all cases of luffy using coc unconsciously he put down allies and foe
"So for you Ashura isn't CoC or he never use Ashura since T-S ?"
"Ashura isn't CoC"
yes its not imo
when zoro used it prets , I dont think thats coc
the attack on kaido had coc because zoro was drawing everything he had left in him.

 

[Marimo_420]

What would be the worse outcome for all you Mihawk downplayers?

- Mihawk has CoC just like every other top tier, just like his pupil Zoro who's hunting for his title, and all your little headcannons get shattered.

Or-

Mihawk sits above the other so called "conquerors" without even having access to CoC Haki himself.

 

[M944]

all cases of luffy using coc unconsciously he put down allies and foe

Yeah that's why a training was needed to control it.

yes its not imo
when zoro used it prets , I dont think thats coc

I don't know it's the "embodiement of a spirit" but sure it doesn't looks like CoC as we usually see.
But your explanation doesn't create incoherences so we can accept it.
I mean this Ashura=CoC looks like BOAT=Haki it let incoherences

 

[Herrera95]

rayleigh explained this

the key here is
this is the first time zoro uses coc . just because he was in ashura doesnt mean ashura is coc.

What chapter is that? Maybe my Brazilian translation is different from that.

Conqueror can be trained. Conqueror can't be learned for those who didn't born with it and was suppose to be unlocked only in extreme situations(debatable). It seems you can't directly train it to be stronger like observation and armament(that is new information to me) but you can train to learn how to control it. That is why at Fishmen Island Luffy knocked out 50k fishmen without knocking out his Nakamas(maybe they are stronger than his conqueror?) or others like Shirahoshi, Neptune etc.

Like I said, assuming Ashura is Conqueror is head cannon. I do believe Zoro coated Conqueror in his Ashura. He only could do that because it was an extreme situation. Haki bloom.

That Rayleigh trainning is just a huge plot hole. Rayleight pretend Luffy was a genius and didn't need his mentoring at last 6 months but he didn't even told Luffy about coating conqueror. Also, Rayleigh could indeed create extreme situations to Luffy bloom advanced haki at those 6 months. If we take serious the statement of Katakuri never struggled in a fight before Luffy, then how the hell he has future sight? Either it is a lie and he had tough battles or someone like BM put him in extreme situations against her and he learned that. BM has no problem in beating and even killing her childs. So is perfectly fine for the survivors experiment haki bloom in other to keep themselves alive until today.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Yeah that's why a training was needed to control it.

I don't know it's the "embodiement of a spirit" but sure it doesn't looks like CoC as we usually see.
But your explanation doesn't create incoherences so we can accept it.
I mean this Ashura=CoC looks like BOAT=Haki it let incoherences

another thing to note
we dont see rayleigh teaching luffy to control his coc unlike observation or armament
and again
it doesnt take a coc user to recognise coc.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

I'm just stopping by to say that Ray did teach Luffy about CoC. He taught him the basics of all 3 haki and then explained to him that it will bloom and become stronger in battles and extreme situations.
This was again confirmed by Hyogoro.

Ray couldn't make his CoC stronger because CoC becomes stronger when his user becomes stronger. However he most likely taught him how to use it regularly, how to target people with it, how to unleash the right amount and shit like that.

OT: Zoro imo has CoC and most likely Mihawk has it too. I can't see them fighting equally in their final duel if only Zoro has it seeing the sudden importance of CoC in 1v1.
Or perhaps Zoro masters it during his fight against Mihawk giving him the edge.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

What chapter is that? Maybe my Brazilian translation is different from that.

Conqueror can be trained. Conqueror can't be learned for those who didn't born with it and was suppose to be unlocked only in extreme situations(debatable). It seems you can't directly train it to be stronger like observation and armament(that is new information to me) but you can train to learn how to control it. That is why at Fishmen Island Luffy knocked out 50k fishmen without knocking out his Nakamas(maybe they are stronger than his conqueror?) or others like Shirahoshi, Neptune etc.

Like I said, assuming Ashura is Conqueror is head cannon. I do believe Zoro coated Conqueror in his Ashura. He only could do that because it was an extreme situation. Haki bloom.

That Rayleigh trainning is just a huge plot hole. Rayleight pretend Luffy was a genius and didn't need his mentoring at last 6 months but he didn't even told Luffy about coating conqueror. Also, Rayleigh could indeed create extreme situations to Luffy bloom advanced haki at those 6 months. If we take serious the statement of Katakuri never struggled in a fight before Luffy, then how the hell he has future sight? Either it is a lie and he had tough battles or someone like BM put him in extreme situations against her and he learned that. BM has no problem in beating and even killing her childs. So is perfectly fine for the survivors experiment haki bloom in other to keep themselves alive until today.

yes you can learn to control it but you cant train it to be stronger.
thing is
good teachers in shonen will let their students grow and develop through experiences
rather than spoonfeed them everything. its not a plot hole , I heard this a lot with jiraiya in naruto as well.

getting stronger through experiences was always how they got stronger
not through teachings from one timeskip
its better this way . could rayleigh have taught him ryou ?
sure
is it better for luffy to grow into it by fighting stronger people?
yes.
[automerge]1619618467[/automerge]

I'm just stopping by to say that Ray did teach Luffy about CoC. He taught him the basics of all 3 haki and then explained to him that it will bloom and become stronger in battles and extreme situations.
This was again confirmed by Hyogoro.

Ray couldn't make his CoC stronger because CoC becomes stronger when his user becomes stronger. However he most likely taught him how to use it regularly, how to target people with it, how to unleash the right amount and shit like that.

OT: Zoro imo has CoC and most likely Mihawk has it too. I can't see them fighting equally in their final duel if only Zoro has it seeing the sudden importance of CoC in 1v1.
Or perhaps Zoro masters it during his fight against Mihawk giving him the edge.

you are right
my bad
it seems he did state that he will teach him the basics
I suppose how to control it .

 

[M944]

another thing to note
we dont see rayleigh teaching luffy to control his coc unlike observation or armament
and again
it doesnt take a coc user to recognise coc.

True but someone need to talk you about it. Fodders in WB' ship couldn't reconize Shanks CoC

 

[Herrera95]

yes you can learn to control it but you cant train it to be stronger.
thing is
good teachers in shonen will let their students grow and develop through experiences
rather than spoonfeed them everything. its not a plot hole , I heard this a lot with jiraiya in naruto as well.

getting stronger through experiences was always how they got stronger
not through teachings from one timeskip
its better this way . could rayleigh have taught him ryou ?
sure
is it better for luffy to grow into it by fighting stronger people?
yes.
[automerge]1619618467[/automerge]

you are right
my bad
it seems he did state that he will teach him the basics
I suppose how to control it .

Sorry buddy but this has no logic at all.
What is the reason of timeskip if not getting stronger? Luffy did not got stronger after timeskip? Naruto from classic to shippuden? Ichigo after trained I believe 2 months before final fight with Aizen?
The whole point of trainning before going to New World was to set Luffy with equals tool to fight top tiers. That's why I say we all thought Luffy could handle an Admiral at Dressrosa(after we saw G4). Luffy came from timeskip prepared to be strongest. Turns out he was too weak already.
And this is so bad for Strawhats. Every other Supernova crew went straight to New World(except Law it seems he took a while to get there) and managed fine. But the MC crew who suppose to be the strongest needed 2 years of training to do what others did 2 years ago.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Sorry buddy but this has no logic at all.
What is the reason of timeskip if not getting stronger? Luffy did not got stronger after timeskip? Naruto from classic to shippuden? Ichigo after trained I believe 2 months before final fight with Aizen?
The whole point of trainning before going to New World was to set Luffy with equals tool to fight top tiers. That's why I say we all thought Luffy could handle an Admiral at Dressrosa(after we saw G4). Luffy came from timeskip prepared to be strongest. Turns out he was too weak already.
And this is so bad for Strawhats. Every other Supernova crew went straight to New World(except Law it seems he took a while to get there) and managed fine. But the MC crew who suppose to be the strongest needed 2 years of training to do what others did 2 years ago.

they did get stronger
however if he comes out of the timeskip with adv coa
adv coo adv coc
where is the struggle
what happens to the story
you want him to breeze through his opponents?
[automerge]1619619439[/automerge]

True but someone need to talk you about it. Fodders in WB' ship couldn't reconize Shanks CoC

mihawk isnt fodder
so in this case
he still would

 

[M944]

No TS is just a way to Oda to avoid showing us how you awaken haki and how you train it.
Imagine if we need an arc or two for each Haki it will be too long.
So you put a TS and its faster

 

[Herrera95]

they did get stronger
however if he comes out of the timeskip with adv coa
adv coo adv coc
where is the struggle
what happens to the story
you want him to breeze through his opponents?
[automerge]1619619439[/automerge]

mihawk isnt fodder
so in this case
he still would

Look, my problem is not Luffy didn't came out from timeskip with adv haki. My problem is the statements. If Rayleigh dropped Luffy but he had 6 months of trainning that he could have learned those things... It don't make sense. Understand? Would be better if Rayleigh stayed those 6 months with Luffy then say "Luffy learned everything in 1.5 year but I'm a bad guy/teacher and didn't taught him the advanced techniques".
Same thing applies to Mihawk. If he has CoC how he didn't knew Zoro had? But okay I can assume my head cannon of Zoro already feating Conqueror pre timeskip(ashura again).
About advanced conqueror, Rayleigh could at least have told Luffy "once you get stronger you will be able to coat your attacks with conqueror".
Fanboys always act like Oda had everything from OP already foreshadowed since he was born. Reality is Oda is doing a huge mess with huge plot holes and everybody is clapping that.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Look, my problem is not Luffy didn't came out from timeskip with adv haki. My problem is the statements. If Rayleigh dropped Luffy but he had 6 months of trainning that he could have learned those things... It don't make sense. Understand? Would be better if Rayleigh stayed those 6 months with Luffy then say "Luffy learned everything in 1.5 year but I'm a bad guy/teacher and didn't taught him the advanced techniques".
Same thing applies to Mihawk. If he has CoC how he didn't knew Zoro had? But okay I can assume my head cannon of Zoro already feating Conqueror pre timeskip(ashura again).
About advanced conqueror, Rayleigh could at least have told Luffy "once you get stronger you will be able to coat your attacks with conqueror".
Fanboys always act like Oda had everything from OP already foreshadowed since he was born. Reality is Oda is doing a huge mess with huge plot holes and everybody is clapping that.

true its also possible oda is figuring this out on the way
he did say on beating kaido
he and luffy have to figure it out
he still didnt know how luffy will take in down back in the interview a couple yrs ago.

 

[Herrera95]

true its also possible oda is figuring this out on the way
he did say on beating kaido
he and luffy have to figure it out
he still didnt know how luffy will take in down back in the interview a couple yrs ago.

I'm not sure if he knows already how to take down Kaido. But I'm 99% sure it will happen NOW. After 1010 statement Luffy can't lost. And he is already toe to toe in his base form. Until now we are not sure if G4 Luffy was using adv haki. Maybe in his G4 he can use that coat conqueror thing. Probably a new G4 form will show up.
But doesn't matter to me. Nothing more makes sense anyway.

 

[Finalbeta]

It's pretty tough to consider Mihawk as a presumable non CoC user.

- Rayleigh probably preferred not to teach Luffy the whole story as a baptism of fire
- The relevance of ACoC qualitatively analysed with the proficiency of the WSS title (I even made a case on why Oda probably considers it more relevant than WSC)
- The final goal of Zoro not possessing CoC would render the likely final battle less exciting

 

[Herrera95]

It's pretty tough to consider Mihawk as a presumable non CoC user.

- Rayleigh probably preferred not to teach Luffy the whole story as a baptism of fire
- The relevance of ACoC qualitatively analysed with the proficiency of the WSS title (I even made a case on why Oda probably considers it more relevant than WSC)
- The final goal of Zoro not possessing CoC would render the likely final battle less exciting

Luffy bloomed conqueror and observation (advanced!) at war. But when he bloomed armament? Against Magellan maybe? Not sure.
Mihawk is not final battle. Is not even a battle. He is Zoro sensei for now on they are not fighting anymore. Mihawk most likely will lose his title and Zoro will claim from who got it

 

[Skiddo]

Why do people think Mihawk doesn't have CoC since he didn't teach it to Zoro? Zoro didn't know it either.

Hell, fucking Rayleigh didn't tell Luffy shit about advanced CoC lol.

 

[Herrera95]

Why do people think Mihawk doesn't have CoC since he didn't teach it to Zoro? Zoro didn't know it either.

Hell, fucking Rayleigh didn't tell Luffy shit about advanced CoC lol.

Luffy just knew it because Rayleigh told him it was that and taught him how to control.

 

[Skiddo]

Luffy just knew it because Rayleigh told him it was that and taught him how to control.

No, what. Luffy didn't know shit. He learned it after Kaido hit him.

 

[Formerly Seth]

The fact that Mihawk achieved the WSS title is enough proof that he should have Conqueror's Haki just not confirmed yet.

When it comes to Zoro's training well. Did Rayleigh tell Luffy how he can apply CoC? Yeah, no.

There is a huge problem with Zoro and CoC reveal.

Dude is the first or one of the first people on FMI to praise Luffy for using CoC and now he wonders what the fuck Kaido talks about.