Powers & Abilities Zoro's mastered Enma.
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What are you talking about? The only think i have been arguing is Enma isn't a powerup initially. It was a nerf and Shisui and Enma are the same rank and power. Ofcourse thats the reason i told you after the training woth Enma "Zoro Haki" is stronger. Which means if he picks up Ahisui his Haki is still the same post training. Enma Zoro doesn't beat Shisui Zoro. Equal basically
I'm not sure it would have higher durability than Shusui, a black blade.
But it's interesting to me given Zoro's balance. Where swords aren't especially physically demanding, his extreme physical endurance is really as impressive as his willpower. We've seen best this at different stages with Mihawk (twice), Kuma, and Daz. But from Thriller Bark, we also know that he has a destructive style that lends itself to quick and very explosively forceful bouts.
Controlling Enma means not wasting stamina unnecessarily, but its ability to draw Haki means that his destructive attacks will be amped when he does cut loose.
But it's interesting to me given Zoro's balance. Where swords aren't especially physically demanding, his extreme physical endurance is really as impressive as his willpower. We've seen best this at different stages with Mihawk (twice), Kuma, and Daz. But from Thriller Bark, we also know that he has a destructive style that lends itself to quick and very explosively forceful bouts.
Controlling Enma means not wasting stamina unnecessarily, but its ability to draw Haki means that his destructive attacks will be amped when he does cut loose.
Could you elaborate what you mean with this? I think there's a misconception that people seem to share in this thread, and if I am not mistaken you are referring to the same thing.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
Therefore any cuts it does depend on the users haki. It cannot draw out more haki than what you have.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
Thus, the sword cannot cut more than you are already able or use more haki than you have. It cannot generate more haki out of nowhere. Zoro's attacks will not be amped because of some magic from the sword. The whole gimmick with Enma is that it uses your own haki to cut more than you wanted to.
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Could you elaborate what you mean with this? I think there's a misconception that people seem to share in this thread, and if I am not mistaken you are referring to the same thing.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
Therefore any cuts it does depend on the users haki. It cannot draw out more haki than what you have.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
Thus, the sword cannot cut more than you are already able or use more haki than you have. It cannot generate more haki out of nowhere. Zoro's attacks will not be amped because of some magic from the sword. The whole gimmick with Enma is that it uses your own haki to cut more than you wanted to.
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Pre mastered emna :
Aims to cut a tree using 20% haki emna forced zoro to draw 200% going over whats natural cutting a cliff.
Mastered emna :
Zoro can control the amount of haki emna draws so that it's not going over board and shrinking his arms. Now he can draw more haki than natural, say 150% without it effecting his body and making his attacks alot stronger.
If all mastering emna does is just not let it drain zoro's haki how would it make him stronger to master it? Imo just mastering not letting emna take your haki doesn't make you stronger but mastering how much it's allow to draw does as it makes your attacks stronger.
Could you elaborate what you mean with this? I think there's a misconception that people seem to share in this thread, and if I am not mistaken you are referring to the same thing.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
Therefore any cuts it does depend on the users haki. It cannot draw out more haki than what you have.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
Thus, the sword cannot cut more than you are already able or use more haki than you have. It cannot generate more haki out of nowhere. Zoro's attacks will not be amped because of some magic from the sword. The whole gimmick with Enma is that it uses your own haki to cut more than you wanted to.
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
I'm just talking about endurance. Not that Oda studies this, but to give you an example: hitting hard in martial arts is more taxing. People described as having "natural power" are generally people who just naturally exert more. But typically those people are known to gas out, because it's not necessarily a thing about how much stamina they have. Throwing a punch at forty percent for one person isn't all that different from someone else throwing their forty percent where stamina goes, even if the result is different. People with a habit of putting more in get more out, but they also need to learn how to be strategically conservative when it's not just about power.
Zoro has high endurance but a powerful, "hard hitting" style. Enma is a weapon that doesn't give him more power, but draws out that power. I'm saying if he doesn't use more Haki than he needs and also goes harder when it's time to go hard, it's effectively an upgrade.
But where does the extra haki come from?
Tengu explicitly says that Enma takes your haki.
You cannot have 200 percent of haki. We know that haki is a finite source. Lulffy cannot use haki for ten minutes when he uses G4. Lulffy states that haki runs out as you use it when fighting against Dogtooth
The difference between Lulffy's G4 and the stunt with Zoro's arm is that Lulffy actively pours excessive amounts of haki in G4 and willingly, whilst Enma took a huge amount of Zoro's haki unwillingly at once.
What you are saying could have happened if haki was a limitless source, which it isn't as we already know, and if Enma could draw haki out of anything, which we also know is false as it draws your own haki. Enma cannot draw more haki than you have, as it is literally impossible to do so.
Enma cannot draw out 150 percent of haki when you only have 100 percent.
Even if we were to go with this premise how would Zoro fight then if only Enma can draw on that amount? It would mean that the slash with Enma would devour the other two slashes, akin to Shusui back in TB.
If only Enma can draw more haki how did Oden wound Kaido with both his swords? Do you think he was using like 100 percent with Ame and 150 with Enma? Then the cut with Enma would have been more devastating.
Zoro was cutting bamboo trees in the same chapter that this happened and his body wasn't shrinking. I believe it was the surprise factor and that Enma drew on vast amounts of haki unwillingly that made Zoro's arm shrivel.
The point is that Enma cannot take more than you have. And you cannot have more than 100 percent. Since haki is a finite source, you cannot just tap into some hidden haki. Your haki reserves can grow as you become stronger, but there's still a limit.
Mastering Enma gives Zoro better haki control, better efficiency, it probably boost Zoro's overall COA, allowing for better offense and better defense.
Of course I could be wrong, but I am basing this on what we have so far.
If I understood properly what you were saying is that it will improve his efficiency, which I agree with. As long as we agree that it's Zoro's own power, it's good.
Tengu explicitly says that Enma takes your haki.
You cannot have 200 percent of haki. We know that haki is a finite source. Lulffy cannot use haki for ten minutes when he uses G4. Lulffy states that haki runs out as you use it when fighting against Dogtooth
The difference between Lulffy's G4 and the stunt with Zoro's arm is that Lulffy actively pours excessive amounts of haki in G4 and willingly, whilst Enma took a huge amount of Zoro's haki unwillingly at once.
What you are saying could have happened if haki was a limitless source, which it isn't as we already know, and if Enma could draw haki out of anything, which we also know is false as it draws your own haki. Enma cannot draw more haki than you have, as it is literally impossible to do so.
Enma cannot draw out 150 percent of haki when you only have 100 percent.
Even if we were to go with this premise how would Zoro fight then if only Enma can draw on that amount? It would mean that the slash with Enma would devour the other two slashes, akin to Shusui back in TB.
If only Enma can draw more haki how did Oden wound Kaido with both his swords? Do you think he was using like 100 percent with Ame and 150 with Enma? Then the cut with Enma would have been more devastating.
Zoro was cutting bamboo trees in the same chapter that this happened and his body wasn't shrinking. I believe it was the surprise factor and that Enma drew on vast amounts of haki unwillingly that made Zoro's arm shrivel.
The point is that Enma cannot take more than you have. And you cannot have more than 100 percent. Since haki is a finite source, you cannot just tap into some hidden haki. Your haki reserves can grow as you become stronger, but there's still a limit.
Mastering Enma gives Zoro better haki control, better efficiency, it probably boost Zoro's overall COA, allowing for better offense and better defense.
Of course I could be wrong, but I am basing this on what we have so far.
If I understood properly what you were saying is that it will improve his efficiency, which I agree with. As long as we agree that it's Zoro's own power, it's good.
I just said that it's not "more Haki." We agree. Look where I said exert more, I'm saying for the same source which is the cause of diminishing output. You can just say it if you didn't get my example though, I know not everyone gets fighting analogies. But it's the same in other sports and sometimes with like cars and stuff.
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Why did you quote that part when that part wasn't meant for you lmao?
This was my answer to you
I think we misunderstood each other at the beginning and now cleared it up.
In other words, I am saying that his efficiency will be better allowing him to preserve and not waste his haki, stamina, etc, which is what I believe you are saying.
This was my answer to you
I think we misunderstood each other at the beginning and now cleared it up.
In other words, I am saying that his efficiency will be better allowing him to preserve and not waste his haki, stamina, etc, which is what I believe you are saying.
Could you elaborate what you mean with this? I think there's a misconception that people seem to share in this thread, and if I am not mistaken you are referring to the same thing.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
Therefore any cuts it does depend on the users haki. It cannot draw out more haki than what you have.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
Thus, the sword cannot cut more than you are already able or use more haki than you have. It cannot generate more haki out of nowhere. Zoro's attacks will not be amped because of some magic from the sword. The whole gimmick with Enma is that it uses your own haki to cut more than you wanted to.
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
Getting control of Enma, from what's been presented so far means being able to use it without it exuding your haki involuntarily. The sword uses its wielder's haki and cuts more than what you wanted to.
When Zoro wanted to cut the tree the sword exuded more of his haki than he intended to and ended up cutting the cliff. Zoro then told the sword to give the haki that it took back to him
To put it in simple terms.
I'll use some arbitrary numbers
Pre Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki, Enma takes your own haki and makes you use let's say 70 percent instead of the 20 percent you wanted to and makes you cut a cliff.
Post Enma mastering
You aim to cut a tree and use let's say 20 percent of your haki. Since you've now mastered Enma it will not take your haki, and you will cut the tree and use only the 20 percent you wanted.
But where does the extra haki come from?
Tengu explicitly says that Enma takes your haki.
You cannot have 200 percent of haki. We know that haki is a finite source. Lulffy cannot use haki for ten minutes when he uses G4. Lulffy states that haki runs out as you use it when fighting against Dogtooth
The difference between Lulffy's G4 and the stunt with Zoro's arm is that Lulffy actively pours excessive amounts of haki in G4 and willingly, whilst Enma took a huge amount of Zoro's haki unwillingly at once.
What you are saying could have happened if haki was a limitless source, which it isn't as we already know, and if Enma could draw haki out of anything, which we also know is false as it draws your own haki. Enma cannot draw more haki than you have, as it is literally impossible to do so.
Enma cannot draw out 150 percent of haki when you only have 100 percent.
Even if we were to go with this premise how would Zoro fight then if only Enma can draw on that amount? It would mean that the slash with Enma would devour the other two slashes, akin to Shusui back in TB.
If only Enma can draw more haki how did Oden wound Kaido with both his swords? Do you think he was using like 100 percent with Ame and 150 with Enma? Then the cut with Enma would have been more devastating.
Zoro was cutting bamboo trees in the same chapter that this happened and his body wasn't shrinking. I believe it was the surprise factor and that Enma drew on vast amounts of haki unwillingly that made Zoro's arm shrivel.
The point is that Enma cannot take more than you have. And you cannot have more than 100 percent. Since haki is a finite source, you cannot just tap into some hidden haki. Your haki reserves can grow as you become stronger, but there's still a limit.
Mastering Enma gives Zoro better haki control, better efficiency, it probably boost Zoro's overall COA, allowing for better offense and better defense.
Of course I could be wrong, but I am basing this on what we have so far.
If I understood properly what you were saying is that it will improve his efficiency, which I agree with. As long as we agree that it's Zoro's own power, it's good.
Tengu explicitly says that Enma takes your haki.
You cannot have 200 percent of haki. We know that haki is a finite source. Lulffy cannot use haki for ten minutes when he uses G4. Lulffy states that haki runs out as you use it when fighting against Dogtooth
The difference between Lulffy's G4 and the stunt with Zoro's arm is that Lulffy actively pours excessive amounts of haki in G4 and willingly, whilst Enma took a huge amount of Zoro's haki unwillingly at once.
What you are saying could have happened if haki was a limitless source, which it isn't as we already know, and if Enma could draw haki out of anything, which we also know is false as it draws your own haki. Enma cannot draw more haki than you have, as it is literally impossible to do so.
Enma cannot draw out 150 percent of haki when you only have 100 percent.
Even if we were to go with this premise how would Zoro fight then if only Enma can draw on that amount? It would mean that the slash with Enma would devour the other two slashes, akin to Shusui back in TB.
If only Enma can draw more haki how did Oden wound Kaido with both his swords? Do you think he was using like 100 percent with Ame and 150 with Enma? Then the cut with Enma would have been more devastating.
Zoro was cutting bamboo trees in the same chapter that this happened and his body wasn't shrinking. I believe it was the surprise factor and that Enma drew on vast amounts of haki unwillingly that made Zoro's arm shrivel.
The point is that Enma cannot take more than you have. And you cannot have more than 100 percent. Since haki is a finite source, you cannot just tap into some hidden haki. Your haki reserves can grow as you become stronger, but there's still a limit.
Mastering Enma gives Zoro better haki control, better efficiency, it probably boost Zoro's overall COA, allowing for better offense and better defense.
Of course I could be wrong, but I am basing this on what we have so far.
If I understood properly what you were saying is that it will improve his efficiency, which I agree with. As long as we agree that it's Zoro's own power, it's good.
2. What i mean is it goes past what is your natural limit of CoA and draw more which can kill and noticeably take muscle mass. Like you said luffy using g4 once he's used all his haki it forcibly turns off. Emna doesn't have a force turn off it just draws till you die or effects you body which isn't natural that we have seen from characters who should have great CoA. If it just draws at the users limit then no one should ever die using it nor should zoro's arm shrank but both happened cuz it draws past that limit. That's the part where you have to master it as mastering emna breaks that limit and makes your CoA better.
3. Again im not saying haki doesn't have a limit. Im saying it draws past THE USERS limit. Example say zoro without emna can produce a attack that does 100 damage at max. Emna forces that damage to 200 unchecked but drains way to much haki to do so. Now master emna zoro can consistently do 150 damage break him limit to allow emna to draw that out. This is what im saying. Im not saying zoro is drawing a unlimited source just that emna draws past your haki limit. If it didn't explain zoro's arm or how it can draw haki from someone who doesn't even use haki. Zoro nor anyone has used so much haki their arm shrank.
4. Yea it can draw out past 100%. Unless you think the cost of zoro using haki is him losing muscle mass which isn't the case. Everyone can go past their haki limit rayliegh calls that a haki bloom but that's controlled and you grow with your improved haki. Enma doesn't allow you to grow with that bloom but just forces you past your limit which can kill you. A pre time skip zoro has a very low level of haki control but enma would force past that low level of haki forcing him to use hardening the same as it did post time skip zoro. So would zoro not have gone past is haki limit where he had a very low haki ability in breath of all things but emna would have drawn out hardening. That's past 100% but the cost would have probably hospitalized pre time skip zoro.
5. No that's the point in the post that zoro can consistently control 150% which means all his attacks are under control. It's not emna just wildly draining haki it's zoro has mastered the amount of haki emna draws making his attacks stronger. It wouldn't be mastered emna if zoro can't control the sword which on 2 occasions now he's shown he's got it under control.
6. Dude you do know it's haki on all swords not just emna right? It's zoro getting better at haki not zoro getting better at haki with just enma. How could zoro ever master enma if there was always different haki going to it? How does this even make any sense? The whole point in masting enma is control so all zoro's swords would get the same haki cuz it's zoro's haki. In oden case he mastered enma in his childhood to teenage years. His attacks were already cap with the boost emna could give it his CoA. He didn't differentiate haki between swords cuz enma was mastered. I really don't get why you keep separating enma from other swords. They all get the same haki boost, it's the whole point of mastering the sword so that you get that boost in power.
7. Yes that was zoro training after days past in that chapter. Zoro has always mastered swords fast so that's really no surprise. His arm shriveled up cuz he was force to use more haki than his limit. Idk what's so hard to see about that. No one has ever over used haki to the point thier body shrank. That's cuz they have natural limits that their normal haki won't go past to do this. Enma doesn't have that limit so unless you've already mastered CoA it will draw past what you are capable of to use it. Case in point again it would still force pre time skip zoro to use hardening despite him not having it.
8. Again yes emna can force out more than 100%. Someone who hasn't used haki will be forced to use hardening. They have 0 haki but emna is forcing them to go past not having haki to wield it. The cost for zoro was it was taking his muscle mass to sustain that level of haki but for someone else it can be death. Zoro mastering emna means he can push past that limit and allow emna to draw haki under his control so it doesn't negatively effect him, which overall makes him stronger till his haki is good enough that emna drawing no longer effects him.
9. Better efficiency and haki control don't make zoro stronger. What even is haki control and efficiency? Zoro will get better with enma because it makes his haki STRONGER.
10. Yea i could be wrong to and am basing this off what i seen. You and alot of other fans just over look what enma did to zoro and other victims. You even say it can't draw past a user limit in haki but it's killed people doing just that and shrank zoro's arm doing just that. You say emna improves haki efficiency and control but it doesn't even target those. Emna targets your haki's power and if your haki isn't strong enough it forces it to be.
11. I agree it's zoro's power im saying it's forced out more than zoro could naturally use. To do this it started drawing from zoro muscle mass to maintain the level of haki it was drawing which was past zoro's limit. It's still zoro's haki but him was forcing out more that what zoro's limit was.