Speculations Could Luffy use a sword against Kaido?!

G

Gran D. Master

yes but of course remember Hitetsu's explanation for why Zoro tamed Enma so easily... He said it was because Zoro had 10 years of training with a similar sword to Enma, Wado Ichimonji

Of course you can say Zoro kept training for the one or two months since Fishman island but surely the other 9 years and 10 months Zoro trained with WAdo Ichimonji before Fishman Island supercede the two months of training since then right?

So i'm pretty sure Zoro could've tamed Enma even then
Yea he could've tamed it back then, but when Oden was eighteen he was already using Enma as his primary weapon, meaning he already had full control of it. While Zoro said he needs to become much stronger to be able to use the blade in chapter 955. And you can't deny that because you yourself used taming Enma as a legitimate feat
 
Yea he could've tamed it back then, but when Oden was eighteen he was already using Enma as his primary weapon, meaning he already had full control of it. While Zoro said he needs to become much stronger to be able to use the blade in chapter 955. And you can't deny that because you yourself used taming Enma as a legitimate feat
Well you're assuming there's a massive learning curve

Who knows, Zoro could've probably already tamed the sword by now and that's just five days of training... If you mean Oden was five days of training stronger than Zoro and specfically stronger in only haki then sure... But of course there's other things outside haki involved in me saying Zoro was stronger... But we'll wait to see Oden's full extent of power at this age first
 
argument of 18 yr old oden and zoro rn does not need to be had regardless. people grow differently . zoro's cap is significantly higher than what oden was at his prime. you should take this with a grain of salt.
its like those arguing 5 yr old big mom was stronger than luffy at 5 . like so what?
luffy will grow to surpass mama at her prime. grand scheme of things, it doesnt matter.
:kayneshrug:
 
argument of 18 yr old oden and zoro rn does not need to be had regardless. people grow differently . zoro's cap is significantly higher than what oden was at his prime. you should take this with a grain of salt.
its like those arguing 5 yr old big mom was stronger than luffy at 5 . like so what?
luffy will grow to surpass mama at her prime. grand scheme of things, it doesnt matter.
:kayneshrug:
Oden's max potential cap is between the 4 Emperors and Pk Level

Pk Level- Prime Garp, Prime NON SICK Roger, Prime NON SICK Whitebeard, 2 Armed Yonko Shanks

Small Gap- Oden max potential is here

Yonko Level- Big Mom, Kaido, 1 Arm Yonko Shanks, Old Healthy Whitebeard, Current Blackbeard( Will get Stronger)
 
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So you're so far gone that you'll claim that getting your skull cracked and saying your head hurts means your head isnt hurt at all? A lot of logic you'd have to dance around to enforce this.....that's like saying Gamma Knife did nothing to Mingo since he got back up like nothing happened.

And BM had bruises fighting Kaido so once again you lie.
She didn’t get her skull cracked. He landed on her head and she complained about a headache. If you think that’s a legit injury then you’re lost. She was fine, fell asleep, and then got right back up to stalemate Kaido. Stop it.
Far superior COA? Luffy was complaining about Cracker's COA being too strong. Cracker could keep up with Boundman without FS and Luffy was no match for him just like Katakuri. Once again, you're just making a bunch of assumptions for the sake of your argument.
Luffy wasn’t complaining about Cracker’s CoA being to strong, he mentioned it once and then popped into Gear 4 and broke through it with ease. Even hitting Katakuri’s CoA in G4 caused Luffy significant pain. He clearly had much stronger CoA than Cracker. None of that is an assumption, it’s a fact. That you think Katakuri wouldn’t roll Cracker days enough.
Not even gonna bother going into detail with this mess. Law and Nami assisted Luffy in beating Mingo and Cracker. You honestly think that shouting "Luffy wouldnt need their help!" changes that fact? Your problem is with Zoro doing anything meaningful and is willing to toss aside story telling and themes to make Luffy the end all be all.

Your entire "argument" will immediately shatter if Kaido is nerfed in any way or if Luffy receives any kind of assistance against him.
Lol I’m willing to toss aside story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating that Zoro do significant damage to Luffy’s enemy, which has never been done, not a single time in the story. I’m throwing away story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating for a clear and wide gap between Luffy and Zoro to be closed such that Zoro can do significant harm to Luffy’s greatest enemy yet, despite the gap between Luffy and Zoro. I’m the one throwing away story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating for the abandonment of the theme that Luffy fights the one that only he can fight, and Zoro fights the next in line.

No, it actually won’t on either account. If Kaido is nerfed in any way, that puts less necessity on Zoro to join in. And when Luffy receives assistance, because he will, it won’t “shatter” my argument as I’ve never once argued that Luffy would not receive it, only that he will not receive it from Zoro because it’s not his place. Luffy will get help from his peers, which are Law, Kid, and possible Drake and Hawkins.
Maybe you should reread One Piece if you really think that...
Maybe you should point out to me the times Zoro has teamed with Luffy in the final, most important fight of any arc and delivered a significant blow to any of Luffy’s enemies.
Well yeah, Ashura can't tame Enma... As stated by fuckin Hitetsu... You think Hitetsu just goes around saying people can just casually surpass Oden by making black blades to just anyone... Hehehe... Oda made sure to add the line that not even the scabbards could wield enma and he even had the scabbards in that very panel reacting to Zoro flexing
Stop. Ashura Doji stalemated Jack in a brief clash. Zoro got ran through with a scythe by Killer and fainted. How about Zoro actually does something of value that puts him on the level of someone like Jack before we assign him that.
 

Finalbeta

Zoro Worshipper
Anyways, Luffy doesn't use swords....he is good at creating new techniques using his DF....at best, he could create techniques similar to cutting....
He has got the Nightmare skills eventually what he lacks is an high level of swordsmanship as we obviously know. Regardless his DF makes him better in brawling.
 

Cyrus the Cactus

Mihawk Reigns Supreme
She didn’t get her skull cracked. He landed on her head and she complained about a headache. If you think that’s a legit injury then you’re lost. She was fine, fell asleep, and then got right back up to stalemate Kaido. Stop it.

Luffy wasn’t complaining about Cracker’s CoA being to strong, he mentioned it once and then popped into Gear 4 and broke through it with ease. Even hitting Katakuri’s CoA in G4 caused Luffy significant pain. He clearly had much stronger CoA than Cracker. None of that is an assumption, it’s a fact. That you think Katakuri wouldn’t roll Cracker days enough.

Lol I’m willing to toss aside story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating that Zoro do significant damage to Luffy’s enemy, which has never been done, not a single time in the story. I’m throwing away story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating for a clear and wide gap between Luffy and Zoro to be closed such that Zoro can do significant harm to Luffy’s greatest enemy yet, despite the gap between Luffy and Zoro. I’m the one throwing away story telling and themes when you’re the one advocating for the abandonment of the theme that Luffy fights the one that only he can fight, and Zoro fights the next in line.

No, it actually won’t on either account. If Kaido is nerfed in any way, that puts less necessity on Zoro to join in. And when Luffy receives assistance, because he will, it won’t “shatter” my argument as I’ve never once argued that Luffy would not receive it, only that he will not receive it from Zoro because it’s not his place. Luffy will get help from his peers, which are Law, Kid, and possible Drake and Hawkins.

Maybe you should point out to me the times Zoro has teamed with Luffy in the final, most important fight of any arc and delivered a significant blow to any of Luffy’s enemies.

Stop. Ashura Doji stalemated Jack in a brief clash. Zoro got ran through with a scythe by Killer and fainted. How about Zoro actually does something of value that puts him on the level of someone like Jack before we assign him that.
Kidd, Law, Drake, Hawkins...all members of the Worst Generation. Just like Zoro! And Oda didn’t seem to mind having Killer fight Kaido alongside Kidd.

Btw, remember when Zoro literally took on Luffy’s burden by fighting Kuma and taking all of Luffy’s pain? Or Shellstown, where Zoro took out Morgan and Luffy took out Helmeppo? Why are you acting like Oda portrays Luffy and Zoro’s relationship as a typical boss and mere underling thing?

And if it’s “not Zoro’s place” to fight Kaido, why would Oda introduce Enma, then hype it up by saying it scarred Kaido? That tidbit of information is pointless if it never comes up. Plus Hitetsu seems to think Zoro will go beyond what Oden could do (symbolized by making Enma black). Oda could’ve just used its grade to hype it
 
Well there's that one time Zoro cut a mountain in half... But I guess Ashura cutting Jack is comparable to you
Because cutting a mountain in half is an indicator of how well you’d do against any opposition.
Kidd, Law, Drake, Hawkins...all members of the Worst Generation. Just like Zoro! And Oda didn’t seem to mind having Killer fight Kaido alongside Kidd.

Btw, remember when Zoro literally took on Luffy’s burden by fighting Kuma and taking all of Luffy’s pain? Or Shellstown, where Zoro took out Morgan and Luffy took out Helmeppo? Why are you acting like Oda portrays Luffy and Zoro’s relationship as a typical boss and mere underling thing?

And if it’s “not Zoro’s place” to fight Kaido, why would Oda introduce Enma, then hype it up by saying it scarred Kaido? That tidbit of information is pointless if it never comes up. Plus Hitetsu seems to think Zoro will go beyond what Oden could do (symbolized by making Enma black). Oda could’ve just used its grade to hype it
Except those are Luffy’s peers. They are rival captains, they’re Luffy’s rivals, not Zoro’s. Killer fighting Kaido alongside the Kid and the rest of the alliance is different, as there is a singular enemy as opposed to a wide swath of enemies in the middle of the war. Also, Kid is not Luffy.

Btw, remember when the only reason Zoro even fought Kuma to begin with was because Luffy was incapacitated, after having to carry the crew on his own and fight the strongest enemy on the island while everybody, Zoro included, stood and watched because it was Luffy’s role and not theirs to fight the strongest enemy? And the fact that you even mention Morgan, who Luffy would have rolled regardless is ridiculous and not even remotely the same, as again, Luffy would have destroyed him and the scene itself was to show off Zoro, who would be joining the crew moments later. I treat Zoro’s relationship with Luffy like that because it is like that. The only other person that’s as close to Luffy as Zoro is Nami, and the three of them have a different relationship to each other being the three most important and original members of the crew, but that does not overcome the dominant theme of the entire story, reinforced by Zoro himself on EL and then again as a crew on TB, that Luffy fights the person that only he can beat, and doesn’t have help from the crew in crunch time.

Because it was a way to hype and draw attention to Oden, one of the three men, the other two being Luffy and Kaido, that the entire arc is predicated on, if you couldn’t tell by the fact that we are now in the midst of a flashback detailing Oden’s life.
 
Because cutting a mountain in half is an indicator of how well you’d do against any opposition
Of course there's multiple things that go into fights but you chose to ignore Haki which Zoro clearly has above above Ashura given the enma business and then now I've told you DC which Zoro has better feats than Ashura again

So what exactly do you want to focus on? Speed? You're gonna say you need alot of speed to blitz Jack? Well Zoro is pretty comparable to even Gear second Luffy so you would have to make a case for jack being way faster than he's ever been shown to be to say that Ashura blitzing him is a big deal...

C'Mon show me what stats you have for Ashura that actually say he's stronger than Zoro in general
 
Do I really have to explain to you how slow Zoro is compared to Base Luffy. Katakuri a fast fighter with Future Sight had trouble keeping up with Base Luffy so he had to use Awakening. So much so that he was stressing Katakuri out.

Doflamingo strong, versatile another fighter had trouble with Luffy's G2 Speed as well.

Zoro on the other hand would look like a starue from Luffy,'s perspective.

He struggled with killer, Hawkins and Gyukimaru, people multiple times below Doflamingo and Katakuri.

Zoro is slower than Base Luffy, Law, Sanji, Kilker, Carrot. He has trouble with fadt agile opponents.

That is why all his opponents he does well with post timeskip are slow people.
 
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