Current Events Chopper vs Queen!?
- Thread starter Jackteo
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He's getting some hype against Kaido, that's impressive but nothing that shows that Oda decided to make him suddenly stronger... Every single Scabbard had his show off moment against Kaido, same goes for every single Supernova. Even Raizo made him scream in pain and got his hype moments...
Just be patient and wait, dont jump on it. The Supernova might end like the Scabbards very soon.
Just be patient and wait, dont jump on it. The Supernova might end like the Scabbards very soon.
He's getting some hype against Kaido, that's impressive but nothing that shows that Oda decided to make him suddenly stronger... Every single Scabbard had his show off moment against Kaido, same goes for every single Supernova. Even Raizo made him scream in pain and got his hype moments...
Just be patient and wait, dont jump on it. The Supernova might end like the Scabbards very soon.
Just be patient and wait, dont jump on it. The Supernova might end like the Scabbards very soon.
was inferior to this
lmfao end up like the scabbards my ass at bare minimum
zoro is set up to open that scar and be the monster samurai like oden
that far above pre udon luffys pay grade
in fact zoro has already done an attack as strong as this
thats killing queen dead
we at the point where his ap is shitting up the 2 most durable guys in the series
hes way above queens paygrade
Zoro has the AP to one shot Queen
Zoro blitzed a Yonko
Zoro low diffing ie being ng generous to queen
Zoro blitzed a Yonko
Zoro low diffing ie being ng generous to queen
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I already proved you (tagged) that Zoro isnt even close as stong as Queen... All arguments you bring up against it are either headcanon or Feats of Zoro against Kaido - which isnt something to jump on cause ALL Supernova and Scabbards had incredible strong hype Feats against Kaido.
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Kinemon had a better Feat lol. And Zoro's attacking power didnt change that much from Dressrosa - ofc its more lethal due to Enma beeing an Advanced Armament cheat code, but we dont know the downsides it has yet (endurance wise for example), there is no logical reason to believe yet that Current Zoro is stronger than he was back in Dressrosa - if it was Shisui Zoro instead of Enma Zoro, be sure Oda would've gave him similar Feats against Kaido.
I already proved you (tagged) that Zoro isnt even close as stong as Queen... All arguments you bring up against it are either headcanon or Feats of Zoro against Kaido - which isnt something to jump on cause ALL Supernova and Scabbards had incredible strong hype Feats against Kaido.
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I already proved you (tagged) that Zoro isnt even close as stong as Queen... All arguments you bring up against it are either headcanon or Feats of Zoro against Kaido - which isnt something to jump on cause ALL Supernova and Scabbards had incredible strong hype Feats against Kaido.
Kinemon had a better Feat lol. And Zoro's attacking power didnt change that much from Dressrosa - ofc its more lethal due to Enma beeing an Advanced Armament cheat code, but we dont know the downsides it has yet (endurance wise for example), there is no logical reason to believe yet that Current Zoro is stronger than he was back in Dressrosa - if it was Shisui Zoro instead of Enma Zoro, be sure Oda would've gave him similar Feats against Kaido.
I already proved you (tagged) that Zoro isnt even close as stong as Queen... All arguments you bring up against it are either headcanon or Feats of Zoro against Kaido - which isnt something to jump on cause ALL Supernova and Scabbards had incredible strong hype Feats against Kaido.
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I already proved you (tagged) that Zoro isnt even close as stong as Queen... All arguments you bring up against it are either headcanon or Feats of Zoro against Kaido - which isnt something to jump on cause ALL Supernova and Scabbards had incredible strong hype Feats against Kaido.
You didn't give any reason why Queen can beat Zoro. You acting like the sccabards hasn't fought somebody with high durability like Queen. Jack got wrecked by Ashura and waa bandaged for 5 days while He nowhere close to Zoro level of attack power
Which databook?
Headcanon,
Zoro literally trains everyday as per Oda's own words, so to say zoro did not improve at all since DR is headcanon
speaking of facts, we know for a fact:
1. Zoro's tatsumaki was so enormous that it covered most of Kaido's dragon body, and it penetrated his scale.
2. Queen hasnt shown any noteworthy speed thus far
Tell me how would Queen defend against zoro's tatsumaki? how could Queen avoid such enormous tornado? Not to mention Zoro's HK is portrayed to be so lethal
Headcanon, and i could say the same, Zoro has yet to show his Ashura.
If i may know, where do you rank Zoro among the alliance?
Headcanon,
Zoro literally trains everyday as per Oda's own words, so to say zoro did not improve at all since DR is headcanon
speaking of facts, we know for a fact:
1. Zoro's tatsumaki was so enormous that it covered most of Kaido's dragon body, and it penetrated his scale.
2. Queen hasnt shown any noteworthy speed thus far
Tell me how would Queen defend against zoro's tatsumaki? how could Queen avoid such enormous tornado? Not to mention Zoro's HK is portrayed to be so lethal
Headcanon, and i could say the same, Zoro has yet to show his Ashura.
If i may know, where do you rank Zoro among the alliance?
The only thing that's headcanon is what YOU do, to base Queen on what we saw so far from him. He wasnt even close going all out or even serious yet. Its like saying Zoro > Dragon cause Zoro has shown better attacking, defending and speed Feats, tf. Zoro didnt went all out either yet, you mentioned Ashura for example, thats why its also fully headcanon and inaccurate to sclae Zoro based on Feats.
PORTRAYAL is a thing, learn that. Queen, a monster with a bounty of 1.3 Billion, the 2nd Commander of Kaido, is without a doubt portrayed to be stronger than the likes of Doffy, Jack and Cracker. Scaling on Feats is the most inconsistent and headcanon way to scale.
Databook VIVRE CARD confirmed that Luffy > Zoro at Dressrosa - as we havent seen Zoro going all out in a fight yet, we cant properly scale him on anything else but this clear statement of Oda. Luffy was easily inferioir to the likes of Doffy/Jack/Cracker - and Zoro was even more inferioir to that based on that fact. Did he improve? NO, how should he? Improving while sleepin and chillin? The only difference between Dressrosa Zoro and current Zoro is Enma, which is nothing more than a sword. And he lost Shisui, the permanent black blade of the Samurai God Ryuma instead - so its highly likely that Enma itself is so far not really an upgrade yet. Means with basic logic Zoro right now is inferior to Dressrosa Luffy (Gear 4 would beat his ass imo) who is inferior to Doffy/Cracker/Jack who are inferior to Queen. In addition to that its not like Zoro has even some sort of special match up advantage over Queen to make up for that huge gap in power.
Where I rank Zoro among the alliance? Well, based on Facts and Logic, how I explained pretty often already, we can only say that Zoro is clearly stronger than Pica, but also clearly weaker than Jack. So he has to be somewhere in between. I think scaling him relative in power to Law is most accurate - but he could be a bit stronger or weaker than that.
PORTRAYAL is a thing, learn that. Queen, a monster with a bounty of 1.3 Billion, the 2nd Commander of Kaido, is without a doubt portrayed to be stronger than the likes of Doffy, Jack and Cracker. Scaling on Feats is the most inconsistent and headcanon way to scale.
Databook VIVRE CARD confirmed that Luffy > Zoro at Dressrosa - as we havent seen Zoro going all out in a fight yet, we cant properly scale him on anything else but this clear statement of Oda. Luffy was easily inferioir to the likes of Doffy/Jack/Cracker - and Zoro was even more inferioir to that based on that fact. Did he improve? NO, how should he? Improving while sleepin and chillin? The only difference between Dressrosa Zoro and current Zoro is Enma, which is nothing more than a sword. And he lost Shisui, the permanent black blade of the Samurai God Ryuma instead - so its highly likely that Enma itself is so far not really an upgrade yet. Means with basic logic Zoro right now is inferior to Dressrosa Luffy (Gear 4 would beat his ass imo) who is inferior to Doffy/Cracker/Jack who are inferior to Queen. In addition to that its not like Zoro has even some sort of special match up advantage over Queen to make up for that huge gap in power.
Where I rank Zoro among the alliance? Well, based on Facts and Logic, how I explained pretty often already, we can only say that Zoro is clearly stronger than Pica, but also clearly weaker than Jack. So he has to be somewhere in between. I think scaling him relative in power to Law is most accurate - but he could be a bit stronger or weaker than that.
True, scaling based on feats are most of the time tricky, but dont you act that scaling based on portrayal are not tricky. Doffy had his bounty frozen years ago, plus he didnt receive the benefit of being Kaido's Underling (WG doesnt know if he's Kaido's underling). While on the other hand, Queen for sure has his bountry raised up also due to him directly linked to Kaido. And no, me scaling zoro higher because of Ashura is not a headcanon, it's a fact, if current zoro could unleash attacks as powerful as HK, then it means Ashura Zoro could easily unleash far more powerful attack. If zoro hasnt went out and he has shown astonishing feats, it just means Full Power Zoro is easily far beyond that, it's basic logic, not a headcanon. And it's not like zoro's feats are situational.
1. Which databook please?
2. Imo Luffy was for sure weaker than Doffy, but he's stronger than Cracker and Jack individually i would say. Cracker literally failed in killing stuffed luffy for 11 hours straight. About Jack, he has shown impressive Endurance, but his speed and offense are nothing special for a YC caliber
3. I literally stated fact before, Oda said zoro's hobby is training, so it's logical to think he trains regularly
Is there a scabbard more powerful than zoro in your opinion? if so, where do you rank him in Commander level system. Also, how do you rank Law, Kidd, and Jinbe?
1. Which databook please?
2. Imo Luffy was for sure weaker than Doffy, but he's stronger than Cracker and Jack individually i would say. Cracker literally failed in killing stuffed luffy for 11 hours straight. About Jack, he has shown impressive Endurance, but his speed and offense are nothing special for a YC caliber
3. I literally stated fact before, Oda said zoro's hobby is training, so it's logical to think he trains regularly
Is there a scabbard more powerful than zoro in your opinion? if so, where do you rank him in Commander level system. Also, how do you rank Law, Kidd, and Jinbe?
Scaling based on portrayal is never tricky - you just need to find out the correct level of portrayal. No matter what, at the end Doffy was defeated by Gear 4 Luffy. On the other hand Luffy had NO chance in beating Cracker, even after imrpoving due to his fight with Doffy. The fight went for long yes, but that is Cracker's fighting style: defensively. But due to the Nami cheat code and the quite ridiculous fight devise of Tank Man, Luffy managed to win against Cracker. Cracker fights differently, but is clearly relative in power to Doffy, if not even slightly more efficient and more powerful due to that. Jack, the 3rd Commander of Kaido with a Bounty of 1 Billion, is portrayed to be relative in power to Cracker. We could put all these 3 characters at "3rd Commander level". Queen is more likely in between Jack/Cracker and King/Kata, at "2nd Commander level". Dressrosa Luffy could definitely compete with the 3rd Commander levels, but ultimately was inferior, I'd say he was Low 3rd Commander level. And thus Zoro something like Mid 4th.
1. Databook Vivre Card
2. Already told you my view on it. I think due to Luffy somehow beating Doffy and not beeing able to even injure Cracker without massive help, Doffy is at best relative to Cracker in strength. Wouldnt make sense for me if Luffy defeated Doffy and thus improved, but then went to a weaker character and was unable to be even close to beat him in a 1v1. I'm sure Oda intended to showcase Cracker as an equally strong opponent to Doffy, but with a different fighting style. Both wins for Luffy were a good preparation to fight Katakuri.
3. Everytime we saw Zoro he was either sleeping or wandering around. Also phsyical and mental "training" alone wont do much of a difference at all, especially not in a few weeks. One has to improve while facing extreme conditions in a battle (like Luffy did against Doffy, Cracker and Kata, partly against Big Mom in Udon as well).
I'd roughly rank the characters of the Alliance like this:
Top Tier (low): Marco
1st Commander lvl: Luffy > Neko and Inu (Sulong)
2nd Commander lvl: X Drake
3rd Commander lvl: Kidd, Kawamatsu, Denjiro, Jinbei, Doji > Izo
4th Commander lvl: Zoro, Law, Killer > RS Sanji
5th Commander lvl: Kinemon > Raizo, Kiku
I dont claim this to be the only accurate scaling, cause on many characters we have only a few wonky infos and Feats which make them difficult to scale. But for me this would be most accurate rn. I think its well possible that Oda gives Zoro/Killer/Law sudden power ups in order to develop the story quicker - but so far we havent seen it and/or the few Feats against Kaido are too early/wonky to judge.
Everyone were sclaing the Scabards like hell as well when they fought Kaido, but they ended up beeing defeated pretty quickly once Kaido went serious - Oda loves to give characters some hype moments before they get crushed.
There is an ocean of difference in strength between Chopper and Perospero. Why do y'all want to see Chopper getting dropped like a worm so bad? Stop matching him up with characters out of his league.
Sanji assissting Drake to beat Queen would be dope so.
1. Databook Vivre Card
2. Already told you my view on it. I think due to Luffy somehow beating Doffy and not beeing able to even injure Cracker without massive help, Doffy is at best relative to Cracker in strength. Wouldnt make sense for me if Luffy defeated Doffy and thus improved, but then went to a weaker character and was unable to be even close to beat him in a 1v1. I'm sure Oda intended to showcase Cracker as an equally strong opponent to Doffy, but with a different fighting style. Both wins for Luffy were a good preparation to fight Katakuri.
3. Everytime we saw Zoro he was either sleeping or wandering around. Also phsyical and mental "training" alone wont do much of a difference at all, especially not in a few weeks. One has to improve while facing extreme conditions in a battle (like Luffy did against Doffy, Cracker and Kata, partly against Big Mom in Udon as well).
I'd roughly rank the characters of the Alliance like this:
Top Tier (low): Marco
1st Commander lvl: Luffy > Neko and Inu (Sulong)
2nd Commander lvl: X Drake
3rd Commander lvl: Kidd, Kawamatsu, Denjiro, Jinbei, Doji > Izo
4th Commander lvl: Zoro, Law, Killer > RS Sanji
5th Commander lvl: Kinemon > Raizo, Kiku
I dont claim this to be the only accurate scaling, cause on many characters we have only a few wonky infos and Feats which make them difficult to scale. But for me this would be most accurate rn. I think its well possible that Oda gives Zoro/Killer/Law sudden power ups in order to develop the story quicker - but so far we havent seen it and/or the few Feats against Kaido are too early/wonky to judge.
Everyone were sclaing the Scabards like hell as well when they fought Kaido, but they ended up beeing defeated pretty quickly once Kaido went serious - Oda loves to give characters some hype moments before they get crushed.
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There is an ocean of difference in strength between Chopper and Perospero. Why do y'all want to see Chopper getting dropped like a worm so bad? Stop matching him up with characters out of his league.
Sanji assissting Drake to beat Queen would be dope so.
Scaling based on portrayal is never tricky - you just need to find out the correct level of portrayal. No matter what, at the end Doffy was defeated by Gear 4 Luffy. On the other hand Luffy had NO chance in beating Cracker, even after imrpoving due to his fight with Doffy. The fight went for long yes, but that is Cracker's fighting style: defensively. But due to the Nami cheat code and the quite ridiculous fight devise of Tank Man, Luffy managed to win against Cracker. Cracker fights differently, but is clearly relative in power to Doffy, if not even slightly more efficient and more powerful due to that. Jack, the 3rd Commander of Kaido with a Bounty of 1 Billion, is portrayed to be relative in power to Cracker. We could put all these 3 characters at "3rd Commander level". Queen is more likely in between Jack/Cracker and King/Kata, at "2nd Commander level". Dressrosa Luffy could definitely compete with the 3rd Commander levels, but ultimately was inferior, I'd say he was Low 3rd Commander level. And thus Zoro something like Mid 4th.
1. Databook Vivre Card
2. Already told you my view on it. I think due to Luffy somehow beating Doffy and not beeing able to even injure Cracker without massive help, Doffy is at best relative to Cracker in strength. Wouldnt make sense for me if Luffy defeated Doffy and thus improved, but then went to a weaker character and was unable to be even close to beat him in a 1v1. I'm sure Oda intended to showcase Cracker as an equally strong opponent to Doffy, but with a different fighting style. Both wins for Luffy were a good preparation to fight Katakuri.
3. Everytime we saw Zoro he was either sleeping or wandering around. Also phsyical and mental "training" alone wont do much of a difference at all, especially not in a few weeks. One has to improve while facing extreme conditions in a battle (like Luffy did against Doffy, Cracker and Kata, partly against Big Mom in Udon as well).
I'd roughly rank the characters of the Alliance like this:
Top Tier (low): Marco
1st Commander lvl: Luffy > Neko and Inu (Sulong)
2nd Commander lvl: X Drake
3rd Commander lvl: Kidd, Kawamatsu, Denjiro, Jinbei, Doji > Izo
4th Commander lvl: Zoro, Law, Killer > RS Sanji
5th Commander lvl: Kinemon > Raizo, Kiku
I dont claim this to be the only accurate scaling, cause on many characters we have only a few wonky infos and Feats which make them difficult to scale. But for me this would be most accurate rn. I think its well possible that Oda gives Zoro/Killer/Law sudden power ups in order to develop the story quicker - but so far we havent seen it and/or the few Feats against Kaido are too early/wonky to judge.
Everyone were sclaing the Scabards like hell as well when they fought Kaido, but they ended up beeing defeated pretty quickly once Kaido went serious - Oda loves to give characters some hype moments before they get crushed.
There is an ocean of difference in strength between Chopper and Perospero. Why do y'all want to see Chopper getting dropped like a worm so bad? Stop matching him up with characters out of his league.
Sanji assissting Drake to beat Queen would be dope so.
1. Databook Vivre Card
2. Already told you my view on it. I think due to Luffy somehow beating Doffy and not beeing able to even injure Cracker without massive help, Doffy is at best relative to Cracker in strength. Wouldnt make sense for me if Luffy defeated Doffy and thus improved, but then went to a weaker character and was unable to be even close to beat him in a 1v1. I'm sure Oda intended to showcase Cracker as an equally strong opponent to Doffy, but with a different fighting style. Both wins for Luffy were a good preparation to fight Katakuri.
3. Everytime we saw Zoro he was either sleeping or wandering around. Also phsyical and mental "training" alone wont do much of a difference at all, especially not in a few weeks. One has to improve while facing extreme conditions in a battle (like Luffy did against Doffy, Cracker and Kata, partly against Big Mom in Udon as well).
I'd roughly rank the characters of the Alliance like this:
Top Tier (low): Marco
1st Commander lvl: Luffy > Neko and Inu (Sulong)
2nd Commander lvl: X Drake
3rd Commander lvl: Kidd, Kawamatsu, Denjiro, Jinbei, Doji > Izo
4th Commander lvl: Zoro, Law, Killer > RS Sanji
5th Commander lvl: Kinemon > Raizo, Kiku
I dont claim this to be the only accurate scaling, cause on many characters we have only a few wonky infos and Feats which make them difficult to scale. But for me this would be most accurate rn. I think its well possible that Oda gives Zoro/Killer/Law sudden power ups in order to develop the story quicker - but so far we havent seen it and/or the few Feats against Kaido are too early/wonky to judge.
Everyone were sclaing the Scabards like hell as well when they fought Kaido, but they ended up beeing defeated pretty quickly once Kaido went serious - Oda loves to give characters some hype moments before they get crushed.
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There is an ocean of difference in strength between Chopper and Perospero. Why do y'all want to see Chopper getting dropped like a worm so bad? Stop matching him up with characters out of his league.
Sanji assissting Drake to beat Queen would be dope so.
Yikes, Some people just hate for the sake of hating.
Zoro is literally carrying the fight against the yonkos so far and you think he cant beat queen.
How about luffy stops being a hindrance to Zoro, And actually be useful in the fight. Because so far he barely done any damage and had to be saved 3 times and is literally being carried.
But sure zoro is so much weaker than luffy because of??
Head canon.
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Zoro is 4th commander level?
Yikes, Some people just hate for the sake of hating.
Zoro is literally carrying the fight against the yonkos so far and you think he cant beat queen.
How about luffy stops being a hindrance to Zoro, And actually be useful in the fight. Because so far he barely done any damage and had to be saved 3 times and is literally being carried.
But sure zoro is so much weaker than luffy because of??
Head canon.
Yikes, Some people just hate for the sake of hating.
Zoro is literally carrying the fight against the yonkos so far and you think he cant beat queen.
How about luffy stops being a hindrance to Zoro, And actually be useful in the fight. Because so far he barely done any damage and had to be saved 3 times and is literally being carried.
But sure zoro is so much weaker than luffy because of??
Head canon.
Dressrosa Luffy is realisticly Low 3rd Commander level - nothing more than that. And factually Zoro is weaker. What kind of math do you use to NOT scale him at 4th? The bias calculator, I know.
Also, if Zoro is relative to Law in strength, which is portrayal wise definitle arguable, and Doffy LOW diffed Law multiple times, ofc its not possible to give Law and Zoro the huge respect of beeing 3rd Commander level yet...
People really be sleeping on Yonko Top Commander. How foolish.
Stop. Zoro and sanji are not the same tier. Never portrayed as such. Zoro has been always portrayed as closer to luffy in strength than sanji. Zoro is a yc1 level if not higher. Queen literally shit his pants when Zoro destroyed his weapon. He beat 3 super novas this Arc alone. He bullied hawkins, Then defeated killer and the stupid fox in a 1v2 fight then one shoot Apoo. And you put him on the level of a yc4? Hes shining the most against the yankos, stopped both their attacks and already cut kaido and saved luffy 3 times and is literallt carrying luffy.
But hes a yc4 ? If he was a yc4 you think he would have been able to do all this?
No he wouldnt Zoro is much stronger than most of the characters you mentioned and stop putting a scrub like sanji on the same level as Zoro. Sanji didnt have a 1v1 fight since over a decade and you put him on the level of Zoro who been fighting and training constantly. Lmao
But hes a yc4 ? If he was a yc4 you think he would have been able to do all this?
No he wouldnt Zoro is much stronger than most of the characters you mentioned and stop putting a scrub like sanji on the same level as Zoro. Sanji didnt have a 1v1 fight since over a decade and you put him on the level of Zoro who been fighting and training constantly. Lmao
I got two threads for you, read them and tell me what you think:
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/why-zoro-is-a-top-tier-already.6747/
and
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-top-tiers-the-next-level-of-zoro-wank.10704/
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/why-zoro-is-a-top-tier-already.6747/
and
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/for...-top-tiers-the-next-level-of-zoro-wank.10704/
I like that you at least dont sleep on the Admirals to rank them below Yonko. And Wyper is in my Top 5 fav characters.
But else I dont think there is much we could agree on, for sure not on Zoro's scaling. I think putting Zoro even at YC3 is factually and logically wrong, and you put him on TOP TIER? XD
Lets just stop here, I think I explained more than well my view on Zoro on how I scale him. I'm sick of dicussing with Zoro fans who arent able to stay real - especially not with those who claim him to be YC1 or even Top Tier...
But else I dont think there is much we could agree on, for sure not on Zoro's scaling. I think putting Zoro even at YC3 is factually and logically wrong, and you put him on TOP TIER? XD
Lets just stop here, I think I explained more than well my view on Zoro on how I scale him. I'm sick of dicussing with Zoro fans who arent able to stay real - especially not with those who claim him to be YC1 or even Top Tier...