General & Others Roger Pirates Parallels

[Doggo]

The only one who didn't understand the circumstances of that moment was Sanji which is why he didn't trust in Luffy. Nami knew what was happening but she slapped Sanji because he should have never insulted Luffy's dream like that, regardless of his intentions. Nami is Luffy's left hand.

Bu-Bu-but Sanji should have believed in Luffy.
Dont you know that in order to defeat a Yonko and her entire army, with just half of your crew, and not even having your main combatant there with you, you just need to believe in the power of friendship?

I swear to God this "argument" just gets dumber every time I read it.

Bu-bu-but Robin did the same thing! He shouldnt have done the same thing!

Imagine that! Oda reusing the same plots devices! It's not like Oda ever repeats himself. Noooooooo. It's not like Dressrosa is Alabasta 2.0, or that Oda "kill" characters just to make them appear alive multiple times, or throw a sad flashback for every damn character that appears. Nooooooo. Not GODA, amirite?

And the funnier part is that their situations weren't even the same, just a little similar.

 

[hedera__helix]

Bu-Bu-but Sanji should have believed in Luffy.
Dont you know that in order to defeat a Yonko and her entire army, with just half of your crew, and not even having your main combatant there with you, you just need to believe in the power of friendship?

I swear to God this "argument" just gets dumber every time I read it.

I never understood this line of defense because like...that's exactly what he ended up doing anyway? And what does Oda reusing plot devices have to do with this. Call Oda a bad writer or whatever, but in the events of the story, Sanji saw Nami's and Robin's situations and still repeated the same mistake.

 

[Just a member]

Sanji-Scopper could be a thing but we first need to see Scopper. For now they just share the 3rd position in their respective M3 (if Oda doesn't mess that up with Jinbe or maybe Yamato).

 

[Doggo]

I never understood this line of defense because like...that's exactly what he ended up doing anyway? And what does Oda reusing plot devices have to do with this. Call Oda a bad writer or whatever, but in the events of the story, Sanji saw Nami's and Robin's situations and still repeated the same mistake.

Go to shueisha, bring them your copy of "Zoro Piece" and see if they want to publish it, then.
Tell them to fire Oda if you dont like his decisions regarding some characters.
Show them that the story without one of its most popular characters can be much better. Show them that you know whats best.
Turn the story into some random ass generic shounen cliche that doesn't last 5 years being published and show them it is way better than Oda's 20+ years work.
Good luck.

Post automatically merged: Mar 21, 2021

That's exactly what One Piece needs.
Fairy Tale levels of "power of friendship".

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

I trust Viz on this.

You can trust whatever translation you want in whatever language you want; it won't deny that, if my memory serves me right, Urouge never addresses Zoro as the first mate as the official title actual first mates share but some generic assessment about Zoro being the second (arguably because of bounty, just like Queen with Sanji recently).

How does that matter? Oda shows a character who is dedicated to the Straw Hats and has a shrine for them and he thinks Zoro is the vice captain.

A character that isn't dedicated enough to know things that aren't public and who could be doing a subjective assessment on who is the first mate just like other characters have made subjective assessments on this. On top of this, Oda may have just been mocking this very assumption among the fandom, hence why he added a "(by me)" to Bartolomeo's train of thought.

The official information remains as it is, and it shows Zoro to be the combatant.

Well, agree to disagree then. We will never be on the same page if this is what you think. I prefer reading between the lines.

There's no "same page" to be. "First mate" is an official title that only some right hand men share; Marco, Zoro and Killer, among others, don't share it.

She wasn't clueless, she was shocked that Sanji would go that far. Luffy disagreeing with her doesn't suddenly make her not the left hand. He also disagreed with Zoro on Zou. Whenever there is an important decision to be made such as letting Usopp come back or going to save Sanji, we hear Zoro and Nami's input on it. Whenever there's an important crew moment like the formation of the Straw Hat Grand Fleet or Luffy and Law's alliance, Luffy either has Zoro or Nami with him.

It's not about disagreeing with her but how Nami interfered on Luffy's speech in ways that showed how clueless she was regarding Sanji and the approach Luffy was taking on this issue (an empathetic one). On the other hand, we've also heard Sanji's input in tons of situations and he was the captain of the Curly Hat Pirates, not Nami. She's clearly a very important member of the crew and part of the original trio, but far from Luffy's "left wing". Zoro and Sanji are very clearly designed and conceptualized to have those roles, starting by how they even parallel themselves aesthetically with the right/left eye detail.

Didn't Barto figure out ussop was sniper king unlike the whole wg

No, in Punk Hazard we saw their bounty posters from their comeback and the Sogeking one had Usopp's face. This even speaks worse of Barto because he had to "figure out" it instead of knowing the most recent wanteds.

 

[Doggo]

Oda constantly shits on Nami being some "Clueless dumb girl" that doesn't understand "men".
She's told to stfu on WCI, in Water7, Usopp asks her "if she wants to trample on a man's resolution" or some shit during Skypie.
"But she's one of Oda's favorite characters".
Yes, yes she is. Because of her tits. Someone asked him is a SBS why did he draw Nami and Robin like fucking pornstars, and the dude simply says he like them tits.
But sure. He likes Nami for her, ahem, "amazing personality and importance in the crew".

 

[HA001]

You can trust whatever translation you want in whatever language you want; it won't deny that, if my memory serves me right, Urouge never addresses Zoro as the first mate as the official title actual first mates share but some generic assessment about Zoro being the second (arguably because of bounty, just like Queen with Sanji recently).



A character that isn't dedicated enough to know things that aren't public and who could be doing a subjective assessment on who is the first mate just like other characters have made subjective assessments on this. On top of this, Oda may have just been mocking this very assumption among the fandom, hence why he added a "(by me)" to Bartolomeo's train of thought.

The official information remains as it is, and it shows Zoro to be the combatant.



There's no "same page" to be. "First mate" is an official title that only some right hand men share; Marco, Zoro and Killer, among others, don't share it.



It's not about disagreeing with her but how Nami interfered on Luffy's speech in ways that showed how clueless she was regarding Sanji and the approach Luffy was taking on this issue (an empathetic one). On the other hand, we've also heard Sanji's input in tons of situations and he was the captain of the Curly Hat Pirates, not Nami. She's clearly a very important member of the crew and part of the original trio, but far from Luffy's "left wing". Zoro and Sanji are very clearly designed and conceptualized to have those roles, starting by how they even parallel themselves aesthetically with the right/left eye detail.



No, in Punk Hazard we saw their bounty posters from their comeback and the Sogeking one had Usopp's face. This even speaks worse of Barto because he had to "figure out" it instead of knowing the most recent wanteds.

how does that speak worse unlike the whole world he figured it out despite never meeting ussop prior he figured out he was sniper king

 

[hedera__helix]

Go to shueisha, bring them your copy of "Zoro Piece" and see if they want to publish it, then.
Tell them to fire Oda if you dont like his decisions regarding some characters.
Show them that the story without one of its most popular characters can be much better. Show them that you know whats best.
Turn the story into some random ass generic shounen cliche that doesn't last 5 years being published and show them it is way better than Oda's 20+ years work.
Good luck.

Post automatically merged: Mar 21, 2021

That's exactly what One Piece needs.
Fairy Tale levels of "power of friendship".

Your argument was Sanji was right not to trust Luffy but you have no response to me saying he had to end up trusting Luffy in the end anyway and it would have been way easier for everyone involved if he just did that from the beginning. I don't know why you're going on this tangent, just say you have no retort.

 

[Doggo]

Your argument was Sanji was right not to trust Luffy but you have no response to me saying he had to end up trusting Luffy in the end anyway and it would have been way easier for everyone involved if he just did that from the beginning. I don't know why you're going on this tangent, just say you have no retort.

I'm not saying that "he was RIGHT".
I think that his decision MADE SENSE in the context of the situation he was in.
If Sanji, who's not even the 2nd strongest SH really believes they could shit on BM's tea party, protect Zeff on the other side of the world, and everything would just work out like a fucking rainbow that appears after the rain, then what kind of "threat" would Kaido be?
Or Shanks? Or BB? Yonkos would just not have the threatening portrayal they required to be perceived as major antagonists at this part of the story.
He "believing" in Luffy came later.
He came back to Luffy, apologized and even said he couldn't go back to the crew, one of the reasons being precisely because he hit Luffy. He understood the weight of what he did.
Luffy being Luffy, gave him a ray of hope back.
That's just it.
Seriously.
Stop for 5 minutes and imagine how fucking idiotic it would be if Sanji would have just accepted to go back to the Sunny as soon as Luffy appeared there. Like a freaking story made for 5 years old, where everybody hold hands and run away singing to the horizon.

 

[hedera__helix]

You can trust whatever translation you want in whatever language you want; it won't deny that, if my memory serves me right, Urouge never addresses Zoro as the first mate as the official title actual first mates share but some generic assessment about Zoro being the second (arguably because of bounty, just like Queen with Sanji recently).

A character that isn't dedicated enough to know things that aren't public and who could be doing a subjective assessment on who is the first mate just like other characters have made subjective assessments on this. On top of this, Oda may have just been mocking this very assumption among the fandom, hence why he added a "(by me)" to Bartolomeo's train of thought.

The official information remains as it is, and it shows Zoro to be the combatant.

There's no "same page" to be. "First mate" is an official title that only some right hand men share; Marco, Zoro and Killer, among others, don't share it.

It's not about disagreeing with her but how Nami interfered on Luffy's speech in ways that showed how clueless she was regarding Sanji and the approach Luffy was taking on this issue (an empathetic one). On the other hand, we've also heard Sanji's input in tons of situations and he was the captain of the Curly Hat Pirates, not Nami. She's clearly a very important member of the crew and part of the original trio, but far from Luffy's "left wing". Zoro and Sanji are very clearly designed and conceptualized to have those roles, starting by how they even parallel themselves aesthetically with the right/left eye detail.

No, in Punk Hazard we saw their bounty posters from their comeback and the Sogeking one had Usopp's face. This even speaks worse of Barto because he had to "figure out" it instead of knowing the most recent wanteds.

You keep telling me Viz is wrong with zero sources. Queen said Zoro and Judge's son, second and third, meaning he considers Zoro the second in command. So yeah.

What do you mean just like other characters have made subjective assessments on this. Every character who has so much as spoken about the crew's hierarchy has said something along the lines of "If the first mate is so strong, imagine the captain" or "Why isn't Zoro the captain".

It doesn't have to be an official title. Some of us don't need to be spoon-fed information.

The Curly Hair Pirates thing was a gag. Just like Nami called Usopp captain in Skypeia when only her, Usopp, and Sanji were on board. The only portrayal Sanji has as the "left hand" is beating fodder so Luffy can take a few steps forward. Zoro and Nami are the ones Oda highlights the most when shit gets real. Zoro was by Luffy's side most of Dressrosa just as Nami was by Luffy's side most of WCI.

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

how does that speak worse unlike the whole world he figured it out despite never meeting ussop prior he figured out he was sniper king

I repeat: the World Government had already figured out that Usopp and Sogeking were the same person and even published new wanted posters with Usopp's face and Sogeking's name. Bartolomeo just happened to identify Usopp as Sogeking because of the long nose, but his identity was public for months before Dressrosa.

 

[HA001]

I repeat: the World Government had already figured out that Usopp and Sogeking were the same person and even published new wanted posters with Usopp's face and Sogeking's name. Bartolomeo just happened to identify Usopp as Sogeking because of the long nose, but his identity was public for months before Dressrosa.

when ? ussop didnt get a bounty as ussop till after dressrosa

and even then it took them over 2 years
it took barto no time after seeing him

 

[hedera__helix]

I'm not saying that "he was RIGHT".
I think that his decision MADE SENSE in the context of the situation he was in.
If Sanji, who's not even the 2nd strongest SH really believes they could shit on BM's tea party, protect Zeff on the other side of the world, and everything would just work out like a fucking rainbow that appears after the rain, then what kind of "threat" would Kaido be?
Or Shanks? Or BB? Yonkos would just not have the threatening portrayal they required to be perceived as major antagonists at this part of the story.
He "believing" in Luffy came later.
He came back to Luffy, apologized and even said he couldn't go back to the crew, one of the reasons being precisely because he hit Luffy. He understood the weight of what he did.
Luffy being Luffy, gave him a ray of hope back.
That's just it.
Seriously.
Stop for 5 minutes and imagine how fucking idiotic it would be if Sanji would have just accepted to go back to the Sunny as soon as Luffy appeared there. Like a freaking story made for 5 years old, where everybody hold hands and run away singing to the horizon.

Okay so you admit Sanji was wrong to do what he did, which means Nami wasn't wrong to act how she did when he was brutalizing Luffy and his dreams.

 

[Lightbolt]

It's not my fault that Oda gave Zoro so many parallels. And I never said Luffy has only one parallel so I don't know what you're talking about.

Which shows how special Luffy is. Anyone can be a swordsman and a first mate‚ but there can only be one pirate king lol

 

[Doggo]

Okay so you admit Sanji was wrong to do what he did, which means Nami wasn't wrong to act how she did when he was brutalizing Luffy and his dreams.

What kind of sorcery did you make to interpret it like this from what I said?

 

[HA001]

Which shows how special Luffy is. Anyone can be a swordsman and a first mate‚ but there can only be one pirate king lol

thats a lie
we will have 2 in this series

 

[hedera__helix]

Which shows how special Luffy is. Anyone can be a swordsman and a first mate‚ but there can only be one pirate king lol

What do you want me to say to this? When did I deny Luffy was special? And there can only be one World's Strongest Swordsman.

 

[Lightbolt]

thats a lie
we will have 2 in this series

I never mentioned in the series. I meant alive. Ask me what I meant before making a statement

 

[Charlotte Horchata]

You keep telling me Viz is wrong with zero sources.

Just check the Japanese panel and look for the term "first mate" in Japanese.

Queen said Zoro and Judge's son, second and third, meaning he considers Zoro the second in command. So yeah.

And he did so with Sanji's wanted, the guy with higher bounty, on top.

What do you mean just like other characters have made subjective assessments on this.

Exactly what I said. It's not a difficult statement to understand.

very character who has so much as spoken about the crew's hierarchy has said something along the lines of "If the first mate is so strong, imagine the captain" or "Why isn't Zoro the captain".

Irrelevant to what the actual concept of "first mate" means. And so far the only person to address Zoro as "first mate" is, if I recall correctly, Bartolomeo (and "BY HIM" only).

It doesn't have to be an official title. Some of us don't need to be spoon-fed information.

It has to and it factually is, that's why some confirmed right hand men aren't first mates. It's not about being spoon-fed but understanding what a "first mate" means and implies in terms of hierarchy.

The Curly Hair Pirates thing was a gag.

Sure it was, and yet the first thing Sanji does is take charge and be the one to ask Luffy whether the group could make a move against the Big Mom Pirates, not Nami.

Just like Nami called Usopp captain in Skypeia when only her, Usopp, and Sanji were on board.

But in this case Usopp didn't lead nor made choices during actual, significant travel time as a group.

. The only portrayal Sanji has as the "left hand" is beating fodder so Luffy can take a few steps forward.

You even have Oda paralleling Mohji and Cabaji to Zoro and Sanji, among tons of situations and hierarchies both explicit and contextual.

Zoro and Nami are the ones Oda highlights the most when shit gets real. Zoro was by Luffy's side most of Dressrosa just as Nami was by Luffy's side most of WCI.

It's not like Sanji wasn't in Dressrosa and wasn't by Luffy's side in half of WCI. Amazing examples there.

 

[Lightbolt]

What do you want me to say to this? When did I deny Luffy was special? And there can only be one World's Strongest Swordsman.

We have the world's strongest man who is rivaled by ( shanks ) the non world's strongest swordsman . World's strongest swordsman is no pirate king