General & Others Luffy's Proclamations

[Topi Jerami]

What will happen to Kaido after his defeat, I can see several scenarios:
1. He can just escape and go somewhere far away Enel style. Or Blackwargreymon style in Digimon 2 anime.
Then he can come back again near EoS, but like Blackwargreymon, he won't be an enemy amymore, but too bad he's gonna get used as hypetool and killed by the new villain (Imu). Well, at least he died in middle of massive war. Way bigger than the whole circus show called Onigashima raid.

2. He can die Zephyr style. CP0 in the island will move by contacting the Navy or World Gov, to summon Buster Call alike or SSG to Wano.

Kaido is seen starting to respect Luffy more since their first encounter when he Baguaed Luffy to 1 hit KO. After his defeat, not farfetched to think he will respect and like Luffy way more, so he will sacrifice himself against Buster Call or SSG to buy time for exhausted Luffy and friends to escape the island.

If Kaido pulls a heroic sacrifice like this then Yamato will also start to view his daddy in different light, in their last moment.

3. He got captured and sent to Impel Down just like majority of past villains. There he will meet up with Doffy and planning a prison break together.

 

[zzShinichi]

But you are perfectly ok with Kid beating Big Mom, despite Luffy making many proclaimations about beating her. But then when it comes to Zoro KILL Kaidou, it's impossible. Dafuq

 

[Doggo]

Crocodile needed to be killed or could go after the poneglyph in Alabasta. Captured.

Enel needed to be killed or would devastate Skypie again. Left.

Lucci needed to be killed or would chase Robin to the ends of the world. Got promoted to CP0 and doesn't give 2 fucks about chasing Robin so far.

Hody needed to be killed. Captured.

Doflamingo needed to be killed or could take revenge on Dressrosa. Captured.

Kaido needs to be killed or will come to Wano again. "stand by".

 

[Salah WG]

The problem is now the goalpost has shifted for many people. Before 1009 fundamentally no one (outside of a few that know who they are) argued that Zoro would leave the roof and Kaido would be Luffy's sole fight before Zoro returned for ZKK somewhere else.

Now that shit has changed the last 2 chapters, the idea that Zoro is coming back has now taken precedent. It's moved from "he won't leave" to "he'll come back" because the majority did NOT expect Zoro to lose at this point.

All I'm saying is there are things Oda does that have not changed in nearly 20 years, but yes let's wait. That's not an insult to you or anyone in this thread btw.

The core idea is what matters
Most people believe Zoro is gonna Behead Kaido & that hasn't changed at all with release of any Chapter including 1010

However, what happens before Zoro beheads Kaido is just speculations
Some said Luffy + Zoro vs Kaido till the End
Other said Luffy + Zoro + Kid vs Kaido till the End
I also found some who said Zoro will fight Jack or King while Luffy fights Kaido & then Zoro returns to Help

I always believed that Luffy will have his 1 v 1 with Kaido, but personally i imagined Luffy & Kaido would leave the Roof, not stay on it while others Leave instead

Everyone is Free to imagine a Scenario & there are thousands of possible Scenarios & it's up for Oda to choose one
But the agreed upon Prediction is that Zoro will Behead Kaido mirroring Ryuma's Feat over the Capital

And btw, Onigashima haven't reached Wano yet, we first need to see People see it approach & react & then we will have Kaido's Defeat on top of Capital. Not to mention that almost all other Fights aren't Concluded, some didn't even Start!

So there is Huge Time available for Luffy to have his 1 v 1 with Kaido & then other Characters start to appear on the Roof including Zoro (IMO, Momo, Hiyori, Zoro, Yamato, Orochi should all be near each other when Kaido is about to be Defeated)

You think Oda is gonna Draw Scabbards back in shape in short time but not Zoro?
And you think Zoro with all the Feats he have shown is gonna have a Fight that Lasts as long as Kaido vs Luffy?

Luffy is gonna have difficult & long fight with Kaido & even if let's say King can manage to give Zoro trouble & a good fight, it's impossible that he would last as long as Kaido lasts with Luffy

So obviously Zoro have every reason to be free & able to go back up again to check on Luffy
Not to mention that Momo will 100% meet Kaido again & same for Yamato & Hiyori too should check on her Brother
So there is no way Zoro is gonna leave Luffy, Momo & Hiyori & stays with who exactly?

 

[zzShinichi]

Crocodile needed to be killed or could go after the poneglyph in Alabasta. Captured.

Enel needed to be killed or would devastate Skypie again. Left.

Lucci needed to be killed or would chase Robin to the ends of the world. Got promoted to CP0 and doesn't give 2 fucks about chasing Robin so far.

Hody needed to be killed. Captured.

Doflamingo needed to be killed or could take revenge on Dressrosa. Captured.

Kaido needs to be killed or will come to Wano again. "stand by".

None of them was first introduced as an unkillable, uncapture-able freak who has survived many executions, escaped many prisons tho

 

[Paperchampion23]

But you are perfectly ok with Kid beating Big Mom, despite Luffy making many proclaimations about beating her. But then when it comes to Zoro KILL Kaidou, it's impossible. Dafuq

I've already talked about this: Big Mom essentially has never been the arc villain, not even in her own arc. Her son was the primary aggressor in WCI. Luffy beat him, stole the RP, recruited Jinbe, and escaped.

This is why Morgan's essentially takes Luffys escape as a victory for the WG and BM the loser of the encounter. She even scoffs at his article when he specifically says she "lost".

Luffy essentially already beat Big Mom. Of course he doesn't see it that way because he's a character in his own story, but she fundamentally lost relevance to be physically defeated at this point by him.

This is why Kid fighting her works. Kaido is the actual villain of the arc, not her. She's a bygone issue that doesn't matter anymore

 

[Salah WG]

Crocodile needed to be killed or could go after the poneglyph in Alabasta. Captured.

Enel needed to be killed or would devastate Skypie again. Left.

Lucci needed to be killed or would chase Robin to the ends of the world. Got promoted to CP0 and doesn't give 2 fucks about chasing Robin so far.

Hody needed to be killed. Captured.

Doflamingo needed to be killed or could take revenge on Dressrosa. Captured.

Kaido needs to be killed or will come to Wano again. "stand by".

None of them ever mentioned Death or got associated with it
The word "Death" is mentioned Dozens of times with Kaido
It's the Core of his Introduction

Did Narrator give Examples of Characters who couldn't Defeat Kaido? Nope, he didn't
He actually said Kaido did Lose before

But did he give Examples of Failed Attempts to Kill him? Yes, countless
And the Guy was Introduced committing Suicide, not Fighting 1 v 1 against Someone, so do the Math

As for your Examples:

Crocodile got Captured by Marines for First Time ---> Prisons cannot hold Kaido as stated in his Introduction

Enel & Maxim fell from Sky Island so ofc he was presumably Killed ---> His Survival & Journey to The Moon is Unknown to Everyone

Lucci was left in a Near Non-Recoverable State & was gonna Die with Destruction of Enies Lobby ---> No one knew that Blueno was back up again & saved him & even then, CP-9 had to work hard & collect Money to pay for Operation to save Lucci's Life

Hody was Captured & Neptune was Free to order his Execution, the Guy isn't Kaido, he can be Executed like anyone ---> He turned Old & Weak so there was no need to Fear his Return anymore, even Kids can defeat him now

Doflamingo was Captured & again, same Argument as Crocodile. Prisons work on them, but they don't on Kaido

Kaido isn't gonna Die because of Wano, no one said that
It's because of his Legend & Oda said that Villains lose when their Ambitions & Claims & Dreams are Destroyed
So Kaido's Legend can never ever Stop until he is Killed
Because Defeat & Imprisonment are two things Kaido already experienced multiple times

 

[zzShinichi]

I've already talked about this: Big Mom essentially has never been the arc villain, not even in her own arc. Her son was the primary aggressor in WCI. Luffy beat him, stole the RP, recruited Jinbe, and escaped.

This is why Morgan's essentially takes Luffys escape as a victory for the WG and BM the loser of the encounter. She even scoffs at his article when he specifically says she "lost".

Luffy essentially already beat Big Mom. Of course he doesn't see it that way because he's a character in his own story, but she fundamentally lost relevance to be physically defeated at this point by him.

This is why Kid fighting her works. Kaido is the actual villain of the arc, not her. She's a bygone issue that doesn't matter anymore

When did she lose physically to Luffy? When did they even clash?
You see, that's the whole point of this thread
YOu twist all the points of the story to make as though Kid beating Big Mom is legit, but then you declare ZKK as impossible, despite the fact that Luffy has declared to beat BOTH, and BIG MOM ONLY AFTER KAIDOU, whearas ZKK never intertwines with Luffy beating Kaidou. ZKK was never about beating Kaidou.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

I mean, there's a reason why Kaidou was first introduced as "can never be killed, can never be captured". If it's just to show how strong Kaidou is, then why do that? Why counts all those Ls, all those captures that happened to Kaidou in the past? Why not introduce him as super strong, unbreakable monster like how Big Mom was introduced.
So Oda went out of his way and introduced him as "has broken out of prisions many times, survived many EXECUTIONS", only for him to get captured again?

 

[Salah WG]

I've already talked about this: Big Mom essentially has never been the arc villain, not even in her own arc. Her son was the primary aggressor in WCI. Luffy beat him, stole the RP, recruited Jinbe, and escaped.

This is why Morgan's essentially takes Luffys escape as a victory for the WG and BM the loser of the encounter. She even scoffs at his article when he specifically says she "lost".

Luffy essentially already beat Big Mom. Of course he doesn't see it that way because he's a character in his own story, but she fundamentally lost relevance to be physically defeated at this point by him.

This is why Kid fighting her works. Kaido is the actual villain of the arc, not her. She's a bygone issue that doesn't matter anymore

You literally posted Luffy saying he is gonna Crush all Four Yonko & telling Big Mom he will Defeat her Twice & now you say, No, Kid is gonna do that? But not ZKK when Zoro is even more Important than Kid Story-Wise?

And by saying Luffy defeated Big Mom, you made it even worse
That means you're admitting that to Defeat someone, you don't need to actually be the one who get rid of them

According to you, Luffy proved himself better than Big Mom & now Kid is gonna Defeat her for good
Then it's same as saying Luffy will prove himself better than Kaido & then Zoro gets rid of him afterwards for good

You literally just contradicted yourself & answered your own Thread Question

 

[Paperchampion23]

When did she lose physically to Luffy? When did they even clash?
You see, that's the whole point of this thread
YOu twist all the points of the story to make as though Kid beating Big Mom is legit, but then you declare ZKK as impossible, despite the fact that Luffy has declared to beat BOTH, and BIG MOM ONLY AFTER KAIDOU, whearas ZKK never intertwines with Luffy beating Kaidou. ZKK was never about beating Kaidou.

Did you...not read my post?

I literally said he beat without having to touch her already. Read chapter 901. Morgans pretty much says this. She's irrelevant to Luffy at this point.


There is no "agenda" here. Big Mom wasn't the arc villain of WCI or Wano for Luffy. Katakuri and Kaido were/are. Read the OP, I literally say this in bold if you read it. I also say I'm not against ZKK either, just that I'm extremely doubtful due to Odas tendencies as a writer. I do make fun of ZKK in the post though as a joke.

 

[stairs-kun]

*Since I have to add this apparently: These are in relation to Luffy's proclamations against arc villains specifically (i.e. the ones he ends up fighting). I'm sure there are plenty of examples where Luffy is a "liar" otherwise. No need to throw those in the mix because that's not the discussion*

*Since it was also not made clear, I do not care about ZKK or if it happens or not. I'm just a skeptic when it comes to Oda's "tendencies"*

Anyway....


Last discussion I'm having about the topic, ya'll get take it apart or argue as much as you want.

Thread is a question of Oda's writing and tendencies as a writer with Luffy. Hopefully by the end its clear. Lets start at the top:

Spoiler

- Luffy's first proclamation about beating someone. Done.

-Luffy's second proclamation. Done.

-Luffy's 3rd proclamation. Done.

- Luffy's 4th Proclamation. Done.

- Luffy's 5th proclamation. Done.

-Luffy's 6th Proclamation. Done.

- Luffy's 7th Proclamation. Done.

-8th...

9th....

10th...

Shocker

Shocker! No pun intended

- Hopefully some of you are starting to see where I'm going with this.

- Now here's an interesting one. Win or Lose, Sanji and Zoro listened to Luffy when he told them to leave against Aokiji.

- Proclamation #15 so far...

.....

.....zzzzzz

And the trend continues

Man I feel like this is all leading to...something right?

We need an "Ace falling asleep in food" emote

Here's a bonus: Law, who had proclaimed he'd kill Doffy the entire arc, leaves it to Luffy.

Welp

Almost done

Now if you looked at all that, then we get to the point:

In an effort to take down the latest villain, Luffy makes a totally new, different, striking proclamation that will shatter all expectations!

Spoiler

Little does Luffy know at this point, Kid's got his back on that other front (for the moment)

Here, you guys can have this "generic" proclamation about fighting Kaido. Maybe it includes Zoro, Sanji, and Law.

Maybe this helps, Luffy says "we", gotta mean something right?

His 1v1 sole victory with Kaido isn't being set up right?

Nope, its all pointing to ZKK clearly

Luffy you liar

Its not like you've done this like 40 times before, right? Oda clearly is doing something different, right?

Oh wait:

+1

+2

Hopes this gets my point across. The argument isn't what you think the story is being set up for, the argument is whether or not Oda will follow the same "pattern" or outcome he's always had for Luffy when he writes this way. But in the end, its what you what you want to believe in right? I will die on this hill, gimme that sweet sweet conflict.

Spoiler

@RayanOO
@Garp the Fist
@TheAncientCenturion
@Ten Yaksha Blother
@Bounty
@Bullet
@playa4321
@Reddot4
@SHIHI
@NotTommy
@HA001
@nik87
@Ice devil slayer
@LANJI CUCKSMOKE
@Prince Kronos
@Greenbeard
@GreenEggsAHam
@stairs-kun
@Oblivion

And a thousand more but hopefully you guys argue and get the conversation going lol.

Wow! So let's just ignore the fact that Zoro himself said he came to put Kaido in a body bag? And that Zoro has bonded with Wano's citizen more than even Luffy.

 

[Paperchampion23]

You literally posted Luffy saying he is gonna Crush all Four Yonko & telling Big Mom he will Defeat her Twice & now you say, No, Kid is gonna do that? But not ZKK when Zoro is even more Important than Kid Story-Wise?

And by saying Luffy defeated Big Mom, you made it even worse
That means you're admitting that to Defeat someone, you don't need to actually be the one who get rid of them

According to you, Luffy proved himself better than Big Mom & now Kid is gonna Defeat her for good
Then it's same as saying Luffy will prove himself better than Kaido & then Zoro gets rid of him afterwards for good

You literally just contradicted yourself & answered your own Thread Question

Read the bold in the OP. If you can't do that, then I'm not having this discussion

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Wow! So let's just ignore the fact that Zoro himself said he came to put Kaido in a body bag? And that Zoro has bonded with Wano's citizen more than even Luffy.

Luffy's words>Zoro's words

 

[zzShinichi]

Did you...not read my post?

I literally said he beat without having to touch her already. Read chapter 901. Morgans pretty much says this. She's irrelevant to Luffy at this point.


There is no "agenda" here. Big Mom wasn't the arc villain of WCI or Wano for Luffy. Katakuri and Kaido were/are. Read the OP, I literally say this in bold if you read it. I also say I'm not against ZKK either, just that I'm extremely doubtful due to Odas tendencies as a writer. I do make fun of ZKK in the post though as a joke.

The whole "beat her without having to touch her" is irrelevant. It's like saying Law already beat Doffy by destroying his smile factory so he doesn't have to fight DOffy anymore.
Why makes Luffy proclaims to Katakuri that he's gonna come back to beat her at all? So Luffy's proclaimation only counts when it fits your agenda?

 

[Salah WG]

Read the bold in the OP. If you can't do that, then I'm not having this discussion

I read it & it talks about Luffy's Claims
I quoted yours, not Luffy's

 

[stairs-kun]

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Luffy's words>Zoro's words

Did you skip Enies Lobby? Because Zoro laid down the final word.

 

[Salah WG]

Luffy's words>Zoro's words

Prove it

 

[Paperchampion23]

The whole "beat her without having to touch her" is irrelevant. It's like saying Law already beat Doffy by destroying his smile factory so he doesn't have to fight DOffy anymore.
Why makes Luffy proclaims to Katakuri that he's gonna come back to beat her at all? So Luffy's proclaimation only counts when it fits your agenda?

You literally don't get it

*Since I have to add this apparently: These are in relation to Luffy's proclamations against arc villains specifically (i.e. the ones he ends up fighting). I'm sure there are plenty of examples where Luffy is a "liar" otherwise. No need to throw those in the mix because that's not the discussion*


Say it with me: Big Mom is not the main arc villain of an arc. Katakuri is. Kaido is.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

I read it & it talks about Luffy's Claims
I quoted yours, not Luffy's

*Since I have to add this apparently: These are in relation to Luffy's proclamations against arc villains specifically (i.e. the ones he ends up fighting). I'm sure there are plenty of examples where Luffy is a "liar" otherwise. No need to throw those in the mix because that's not the discussion*

These ARE mine lmao, the fuck are you saying.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Prove it

Luffy telling Zoro and Sanji to leave during the Aokiji fight, even when they argued with him

Luffy now telling Zoro and law to leave last chapter.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Guys I don't HAVE an agenda holy shit.

The post is about doubting Oda changing his normal story habits. You can't sit here and tell me that the nearly 40 examples I gave aren't true: each one of those villains basically met the same fate.

If Kid fights BM, it doesn't matter because she never actually was THE arc villain to begin with, in either arc. No agenda here.

I literally could care less about Kid beating BM or ZKK.

 

[SHIHI]

The OP wanted to have a civilized conversation but that's not possible for guys with 12 y.o mindset lmao.

I think Zoro is not fighting Kaido any more. what I could see, is that Zoro kills Kaido after his defeat against Luffy. Kills a defeated broken opponent.

agreed 100% with your post.

 

[zzShinichi]

You literally don't get it

*Since I have to add this apparently: These are in relation to Luffy's proclamations against arc villains specifically (i.e. the ones he ends up fighting). I'm sure there are plenty of examples where Luffy is a "liar" otherwise. No need to throw those in the mix because that's not the discussion*


Say it with me: Big Mom is not the main arc villain of an arc. Katakuri is. Kaido is.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

*Since I have to add this apparently: These are in relation to Luffy's proclamations against arc villains specifically (i.e. the ones he ends up fighting). I'm sure there are plenty of examples where Luffy is a "liar" otherwise. No need to throw those in the mix because that's not the discussion*

These ARE mine lmao, the fuck are you saying.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Luffy telling Zoro and Sanji to leave during the Aokiji fight, even when they argued with him

Luffy now telling Zoro and law to leave last chapter.

Post automatically merged: Apr 16, 2021

Guys I don't HAVE an agenda holy shit.

The post is about doubting Oda changing his normal story habits. You can't sit here and tell me that the nearly 40 examples I gave aren't true: each one of those villains basically met the same fate.

If Kid fights BM, it doesn't matter because she never actually was THE arc villain to begin with, in either arc. No agenda here.

I literally could care less about Kid beating BM or ZKK.

Well tbf, I don't see Zoro coming up again to fight Kaidou anymore. I'm hoping he gets more story-driven developments under the roof,maybe with Hiyori, the rest of the Samurai, gets to fight with King or any other calamity. The more ZOro leaves roots in the citizens of Wano, the Samurai force, the more likely chance for ZKK to happen.
Sorry for misunderstanding your post tho, I was barely waking up from my shift rest

 

[nik87]

I don't get it. Why would you want Zoro's sole victory this arc to shamelessly execute a defeated pirate?

Paper-chan, it is very simple.
The reason why you dont get it is because you dont get what already happened - Zoro has already proven that he is superior combatant than Kaido, he has nothing left to prove other than having enough firepower to kill Kaido.
Whether that happens while Kaido is defeated on the ground or still up and kicking or flying above the capital, doesnt matter, it requires the same amount of effort from Zoro to split him into pieces.
Do you get it now? :yasu: