This thread is mostly a culmination of my thoughts regarding the state of Post Timeskip One Piece and why I think the story has ultimately suffered. This is not to say that there are not enjoyable aspects. We can always find something "good" about someone or something even if we do not particularly think highly of that person or thing. For me, my sticking point in the post time skip has been Linlin whose character I very much enjoy both for good and for bad.
(Sorry in advance for the grammatical errors)
Originality And Banality - I can confidently say that there is no such thing as originality especially in art where creators draw inspiration from each other in reciprocal manner yet, the goal when drawing from other sources, is to create something unique and to avoid banality. I am not here to criticize Oda for lack of creativity in fact, I think that One Piece is unique for its creativity and its ability to integrate so many concepts in a manner which seems oddly coherent and natural to the world itself.
Nevertheless, I think that Oda suffers from the obsession of being "original" and avoids banality much to the detriment of the story's coherence and consistency. It is well known at this point that Oda is indeed aware of the rabid fanbase and theory-crafting. He dislikes when we the fans are able to predict the outcome of a plot line or future events. This foresight is such an issue that he has been on record saying that he retroactively changes outcomes when he becomes aware that the fans have predicted it. The need to create mystery and to amaze fans with twists and turns is alluring for any storyteller. Often times, the most memorable aspects of a story is the unexpected twist. But, there are limits.
I truly believe that Post TS One Piece suffers because Oda is obsessed with unexpected twists and turns. Coherence will inevitably suffer when the outcome of a plot is changed retroactively just for the sake of shock value rather than the change occurring as a result of an unforeseen flaw during the initial conception of the plotline. Now, it's difficult to point out exactly which plot points Oda has changed retroactively as a result of fan foresight but we can see how his obsession with being original and unpredictable manifests in other aspects of the story.
Silhouettes, Name Drops And Ambiguous References
I've been bitching for years about Oda's overuse of Silhouettes in the post time skip. I think it's egregious when the likes of Holdem is first introduced as a shadow without very much relevance as to why his features or face would remain hidden. For example, Kozuki Oden remained a Silhouette for the longest time with no justification for why he ought to remain hidden. The same goes for Momonoske. Personally speaking, these reveals especially for characters we have never met before did nothing to make their introduction any more memorable. In fact, I remember being quite upset that I waited so long for Oden's design just to have his introduction be just another chapter. I would also say that the long wait greatly ruined his introduction because it raised expectations just to have them unmet.
I understand that building "hype" and "expectation" is part of the business model to keep readers interesting but to me, the manner in which Oda uses these tools is cheap and lazy because it adds nothing to the story nor the characters. It's a cheap way of generating interest and mystery when it is rehashed over and over again. Another recent example is the introduction of the flying 6. Showing their feet the chapter before their introduction rather than just showing them outright added nothing to my interest in these characters. I know that I don't speak for everyone. In fact, I was on the spoiler thread and saw the amount of interest their feet (particularly Who's Who) generated. Yet, to me withholding their appearance added nothing to the overall story. I don't care anymore about the flying six because I couldn't see their design for a chapter or two because it's not pertinent to how the story is supposed to progress.
Haki
Oda's obsession manifests most in his integration of Haki. I don't hate Haki nor do I think it's an uninteresting power system but, my interest in something only goes as far as I can understand that thing. The introduction of Haki has greatly reduced the coherence of the plot in unexpected ways. It may sound hyperbolic to make such a statement but if you consider that the primary form of conflict resolution in One Piece is through combat and violence, then such an assertion isn't so absurd. At the end of the day, everything will be resolved through Luffy's fists and beating down the tyrants that oppress the inhabitants of whatever Island the Strawhats find themselves on.
I won't go into detail on the countless instances where Haki renders the plot incoherent or unbelievable because there are already countless discussions on it. what I want to focus on is Oda's conscious choice of keeping Haki very ambiguous. He keeps Haki ambiguous for the same reason he changes his plot when fans figure out whats going to happen and for the same reason he keeps characters silhouettes or chooses to show their feet instead of just showing them even though witholding them ultimately adds nothing to the plot. That is, for the sake of avoiding banality, remaining unpredictable and to "shock" the readers.
It's clear that Haki is not a concept that Oda had fully solidified until the time skip but it does not excuse the ambiguity that surrounds a power system that has been an integral aspect of combat and plot resolution the past decade. Oda is creative and talented enough to sit down and provide clear and concise details regarding Haki. I say concise here because I know that walls of exposition is not everyone's cup of tea. I personally love long detailed and meticulous explanations of powers and mechanics. For example, the panel below is infamous in and out of the H x H fanbase but panels like that get me excited. I love info dumps. "I want everything explained to me or nothing at all"
I'm not holding Oda to Togashi's "autistic" standards on exposition but basic delineation and explanations as to how Haki works and interacts with the world wouldn't be so hard for Oda.
To put it bluntly, Oda keeps Haki opened ended and ambiguous because it's crutch. When the situation deteriorates and Luffy finds himself in with his back against the wall, Oda can always turn to an unforeseen aspect of Haki to give Luffy the power he needs to overcome his opponent. We see this last chapter where without very little prompt, Luffy becomes capable of imbuing COC into his attacks. I have no issue with Luffy doing so. I take issue because it comes out of thin air. There is no slow progression leading to his epiphany, it just happened. We the readers are forced to accept the result because we had no expectation of what Conquerors Haki does beyond overpowering the weak willed.
I'm sure that moment created "hype" and excitement for many but that hype to me is empty. To me, exciting moments are exciting when there is substance backing those moments. Luffy's realization about COC was not exciting to me because there was no build up. It simply just happened and a cheap flashback was enough to trigger growth.In the same vein, Luffy's victory over Katakuri did not excite me because whatever build up that occurred was rushed and was incoherent due to the thick wall of plot protection and plot induced stupidity imposed on the whole scenario.
Oda believes that keeping things about Haki ambiguous up until it's relevant for plot makes the story exciting and keeps readers hooked. I am sure that for many, that is the case but not for me. I can't help but feel that the story loses believability and tension when things occur so conveniently for Luffy when it comes to powers and combat. Every time Oda reveals something about Haki in the midst of combat in favor of Luffy, I can't help but call bullshit and feel like it's an ass pull. This of course is all personal preference. I'm sure there are many people who enjoy when Haki is exploited as a plot device.
The Beauty of Unoriginality And Expectations
Being unoriginal is not a bad thing. The same applies to knowing what to expect and having that expectation more or less fulfilled. Oda is a talented writer who I believe can still write a captivating narrative without resorting to cheap tricks for the sake of shock value and the subversion of expectations. I think that a major aspect of my enjoyment of something is how well I can engage with it, and how well I can understand it (even if I'm wrong). I think it's cool having an important character introduced without any added fluff. The importance of that character should be dictated by their actions and how they shape the world or influence those around them rather than through artificial measures like Silhouettes. I think it's far more impressive to highlight a characters importance and impact passively even when the audience knows things about the character.
The same can be applied to the plot and power system which progresses the plot. When authors create rules and strictly follow those rules for power systems, we the audience roughly know what to expect. We understand and can follow the rules of the world and through this understanding we can be active passengers in reaching a conclusion as to how a conflict can be resolved within established framework. I'm not imploring or damning Oda for not being obsessive and meticulous like Togashi nor am I trying to suggest that he turns Haki into a hard power system like nen. Yet, basic rules should be established to provide a framework for the readers to follow along. When readers know the rules of a system or world, and know that the author will strictly follow those rules, the resolution the author comes up with is far more satisfying because it follows the established rules. We the readers even with all the rules can only theorize so much. Only the author truly knows his/her characters. The authors solution even if restricted through self imposed rules, comes with its own uniqueness. Things will rarely feel or look like an asspull.
I feel like the writing of the Post Time Skip could truly be much better if Oda wasn't so obsessed with always being original or subverting reader expectations. The story suffers greatly because he chooses to focus on shocking the readers and remaining unpredictable rather than constructing a natural narrative which is free from cheap attention grabbing tactics.
(Sorry in advance for the grammatical errors)
Originality And Banality - I can confidently say that there is no such thing as originality especially in art where creators draw inspiration from each other in reciprocal manner yet, the goal when drawing from other sources, is to create something unique and to avoid banality. I am not here to criticize Oda for lack of creativity in fact, I think that One Piece is unique for its creativity and its ability to integrate so many concepts in a manner which seems oddly coherent and natural to the world itself.
Nevertheless, I think that Oda suffers from the obsession of being "original" and avoids banality much to the detriment of the story's coherence and consistency. It is well known at this point that Oda is indeed aware of the rabid fanbase and theory-crafting. He dislikes when we the fans are able to predict the outcome of a plot line or future events. This foresight is such an issue that he has been on record saying that he retroactively changes outcomes when he becomes aware that the fans have predicted it. The need to create mystery and to amaze fans with twists and turns is alluring for any storyteller. Often times, the most memorable aspects of a story is the unexpected twist. But, there are limits.
I truly believe that Post TS One Piece suffers because Oda is obsessed with unexpected twists and turns. Coherence will inevitably suffer when the outcome of a plot is changed retroactively just for the sake of shock value rather than the change occurring as a result of an unforeseen flaw during the initial conception of the plotline. Now, it's difficult to point out exactly which plot points Oda has changed retroactively as a result of fan foresight but we can see how his obsession with being original and unpredictable manifests in other aspects of the story.
Silhouettes, Name Drops And Ambiguous References
I've been bitching for years about Oda's overuse of Silhouettes in the post time skip. I think it's egregious when the likes of Holdem is first introduced as a shadow without very much relevance as to why his features or face would remain hidden. For example, Kozuki Oden remained a Silhouette for the longest time with no justification for why he ought to remain hidden. The same goes for Momonoske. Personally speaking, these reveals especially for characters we have never met before did nothing to make their introduction any more memorable. In fact, I remember being quite upset that I waited so long for Oden's design just to have his introduction be just another chapter. I would also say that the long wait greatly ruined his introduction because it raised expectations just to have them unmet.
I understand that building "hype" and "expectation" is part of the business model to keep readers interesting but to me, the manner in which Oda uses these tools is cheap and lazy because it adds nothing to the story nor the characters. It's a cheap way of generating interest and mystery when it is rehashed over and over again. Another recent example is the introduction of the flying 6. Showing their feet the chapter before their introduction rather than just showing them outright added nothing to my interest in these characters. I know that I don't speak for everyone. In fact, I was on the spoiler thread and saw the amount of interest their feet (particularly Who's Who) generated. Yet, to me withholding their appearance added nothing to the overall story. I don't care anymore about the flying six because I couldn't see their design for a chapter or two because it's not pertinent to how the story is supposed to progress.
Haki
Oda's obsession manifests most in his integration of Haki. I don't hate Haki nor do I think it's an uninteresting power system but, my interest in something only goes as far as I can understand that thing. The introduction of Haki has greatly reduced the coherence of the plot in unexpected ways. It may sound hyperbolic to make such a statement but if you consider that the primary form of conflict resolution in One Piece is through combat and violence, then such an assertion isn't so absurd. At the end of the day, everything will be resolved through Luffy's fists and beating down the tyrants that oppress the inhabitants of whatever Island the Strawhats find themselves on.
I won't go into detail on the countless instances where Haki renders the plot incoherent or unbelievable because there are already countless discussions on it. what I want to focus on is Oda's conscious choice of keeping Haki very ambiguous. He keeps Haki ambiguous for the same reason he changes his plot when fans figure out whats going to happen and for the same reason he keeps characters silhouettes or chooses to show their feet instead of just showing them even though witholding them ultimately adds nothing to the plot. That is, for the sake of avoiding banality, remaining unpredictable and to "shock" the readers.
It's clear that Haki is not a concept that Oda had fully solidified until the time skip but it does not excuse the ambiguity that surrounds a power system that has been an integral aspect of combat and plot resolution the past decade. Oda is creative and talented enough to sit down and provide clear and concise details regarding Haki. I say concise here because I know that walls of exposition is not everyone's cup of tea. I personally love long detailed and meticulous explanations of powers and mechanics. For example, the panel below is infamous in and out of the H x H fanbase but panels like that get me excited. I love info dumps. "I want everything explained to me or nothing at all"
To put it bluntly, Oda keeps Haki opened ended and ambiguous because it's crutch. When the situation deteriorates and Luffy finds himself in with his back against the wall, Oda can always turn to an unforeseen aspect of Haki to give Luffy the power he needs to overcome his opponent. We see this last chapter where without very little prompt, Luffy becomes capable of imbuing COC into his attacks. I have no issue with Luffy doing so. I take issue because it comes out of thin air. There is no slow progression leading to his epiphany, it just happened. We the readers are forced to accept the result because we had no expectation of what Conquerors Haki does beyond overpowering the weak willed.
I'm sure that moment created "hype" and excitement for many but that hype to me is empty. To me, exciting moments are exciting when there is substance backing those moments. Luffy's realization about COC was not exciting to me because there was no build up. It simply just happened and a cheap flashback was enough to trigger growth.In the same vein, Luffy's victory over Katakuri did not excite me because whatever build up that occurred was rushed and was incoherent due to the thick wall of plot protection and plot induced stupidity imposed on the whole scenario.
Oda believes that keeping things about Haki ambiguous up until it's relevant for plot makes the story exciting and keeps readers hooked. I am sure that for many, that is the case but not for me. I can't help but feel that the story loses believability and tension when things occur so conveniently for Luffy when it comes to powers and combat. Every time Oda reveals something about Haki in the midst of combat in favor of Luffy, I can't help but call bullshit and feel like it's an ass pull. This of course is all personal preference. I'm sure there are many people who enjoy when Haki is exploited as a plot device.
The Beauty of Unoriginality And Expectations
Being unoriginal is not a bad thing. The same applies to knowing what to expect and having that expectation more or less fulfilled. Oda is a talented writer who I believe can still write a captivating narrative without resorting to cheap tricks for the sake of shock value and the subversion of expectations. I think that a major aspect of my enjoyment of something is how well I can engage with it, and how well I can understand it (even if I'm wrong). I think it's cool having an important character introduced without any added fluff. The importance of that character should be dictated by their actions and how they shape the world or influence those around them rather than through artificial measures like Silhouettes. I think it's far more impressive to highlight a characters importance and impact passively even when the audience knows things about the character.
The same can be applied to the plot and power system which progresses the plot. When authors create rules and strictly follow those rules for power systems, we the audience roughly know what to expect. We understand and can follow the rules of the world and through this understanding we can be active passengers in reaching a conclusion as to how a conflict can be resolved within established framework. I'm not imploring or damning Oda for not being obsessive and meticulous like Togashi nor am I trying to suggest that he turns Haki into a hard power system like nen. Yet, basic rules should be established to provide a framework for the readers to follow along. When readers know the rules of a system or world, and know that the author will strictly follow those rules, the resolution the author comes up with is far more satisfying because it follows the established rules. We the readers even with all the rules can only theorize so much. Only the author truly knows his/her characters. The authors solution even if restricted through self imposed rules, comes with its own uniqueness. Things will rarely feel or look like an asspull.
I feel like the writing of the Post Time Skip could truly be much better if Oda wasn't so obsessed with always being original or subverting reader expectations. The story suffers greatly because he chooses to focus on shocking the readers and remaining unpredictable rather than constructing a natural narrative which is free from cheap attention grabbing tactics.
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