Powers & Abilities Is Luffy just using Basic Ryou + CoC? Is there a "Level 3" Armament Haki/Internal Destruction CoA?

[sanjikun]

I'm starting to think that "Internal Destruction CoA" doesn't exist and Luffy was doing Ryou all along. The reason why Hyo couldn't do "Level 3" was because it included CoC.

Luffy wanted to learn the "advanced" thing that Rayleigh was doing, which was "flowing" (Ryou means flow), and that's what Hyogoro was talking about. The "one level" above was to flow.

The right panel seems like Ryou because it has some invisible layer, but Luffy had that with basic armament too.

 

[Finalbeta]

I would say penetration is nothing but advanced Ryou, different from the standard haki which forms coating or invisible barriers that can be utilized in several ways.

 

[draganax]

i prefer to call ryou by the concept of haki flow or just flow, it means allowing your haki to flow into your fist/weapon from the parts of the body that do not need it, so far it can be used with CoA as well as CoC allowing for an advanced usage of those two colors of haki, the fan made name for them is: ACoA / ACoC

there's two levels to armament flow aka ACoA
lvl 1:
- creates an invisible barrier/suit of armor that does damage and blocks attacks without physical contact, example: rayleigh vs elephant
- can be used by anyone who took the time to learn the concept of flow

lvl 2:
- instead of creating a barrier you make the haki enter your opponent's body dealing internal damage
- only used by luffy and rayleigh, it seems to be triggered by normal CoC as shown in the anime when rayleigh destroyed the explosive collar
- this is what luffy was mainly using to damage kaido up to chapter 1010

 

[spawn]

Yeah but Luffy performs internal destruction during his training. He also was able to take off the collars on demand. So why would the CoC realisation only be now.

 

[draganax]

Yeah but Luffy performs internal destruction during his training. He also was able to take off the collars on demand. So why would the CoC realisation only be now.

what luffy just realized is that you can use the concept of flow to coat yourself with CoC the same way you do with CoA

as in regard to internal destruction, it's confirmed that luffy can use CoC even when he's knocked out from thunder bagua, luffy might be unconsciously using CoC but so subtly that he doesn't realize it, so internal destruction needing CoC to activate still make sense, that's why only rayleigh and luffy able to use it because their CoC users, and in the anime rayleigh unleashed CoC before he used armament to destroy the collar

 

[Garps tekkai]

Imo the advCoA lvl2 or the "internal destruction haki"-application with CoA, still exists.

The thing is, if CoC would create that internal destruction effect just by itself, characters would need to realize that it's what (CoC) they are using, if they intended to master that technique.
But as seen at hand of Luffy he obviously had no clue that CoC flow even existed, even though he could already use those internal destruction haki moves, as in he mastered that ability.
And when he realized that it's a possibility, he instantly could make use of it, thus he could actually switch from internal destruction with CoA (shallow) to CoC haki flow (banger).
If advCoA lvl2 moves would make use of unconscious CoC usage for example, somewhat like a teaser for what's coming next, it's mastery would directly lead to advCoC moves, which obviously did not happen.
And in general the internal destruction application simply is a technique that can be trained to perfection-> casting your haki into the opponent's body =/= a mighty special qurik of flowing CoC.

It's just a coincidence that Luffy and Rayleigh happen to be Conquerors aswell. But what about Sabo and Lucci for example?

Perhaps:
a) similiar to advCoA lvl2, he just doesn't visualize it very well, means Luffy's using it, BM and Kaido don't or b) internal destruction CoC has still to come

 

[Fn Lucci]

Dude what

Internal destruction does exist. It's what Hyo explained and clearly what was demonstrated by destroying the cuffs.

With Red Roc there was NO barrier, and Kaido confirms that it wasn't CoC by implying to Luffy that it is beyond his scope.

Like I don't think Oda is doing the best job with Haki in general but I also don't get how people stumble over what he has actually explained.

 

[draganax]

Dude what

Internal destruction does exist. It's what Hyo explained and clearly what was demonstrated by destroying the cuffs.

With Red Roc there was NO barrier, and Kaido confirms that it wasn't CoC by implying to Luffy that it is beyond his scope.

Like I don't think Oda is doing the best job with Haki in general but I also don't get how people stumble over what he has actually explained.

i personally think that only conquerors can perform internal destruction, yes it's still ACoA but it must be triggered by the basic CoC to do internal damage, luffy's CoC has grown stronger that he can use it while being knocked out, so it's not unlikely that he's been using it unconsciously to do internal destruction, it's just like zoro he knows what CoC is but he doesn't realize that he's using it when he activates asura

 

[Fn Lucci]

i personally think that only conquerors can perform internal destruction, yes it's still ACoA but it must be triggered by the basic CoC to do internal damage, luffy's CoC has grown stronger that he can use it while being knocked out, so it's not unlikely that he's been using it unconsciously to do internal destruction, it's just like zoro he knows what CoC is but he doesn't realize that he's using it when he activates asura

This was the original assumption and it's still reasonable because the only ones we know for sure out there using it are Ray and Luffy, conquerors.

 

[draganax]

This was the original assumption and it's still reasonable because the only ones we know for sure out there using it are Ray and Luffy, conquerors.

yes, and there's the scene from the anime when rayleigh destroyed camie's collar, where he clearly used CoC before he used internal destruction ACoA

 

[HA001]

yes, and there's the scene from the anime when rayleigh destroyed camie's collar, where he clearly used CoC before he used internal destruction ACoA

In the anime when luffy punches the tree in his training there is red and black coc lightning
And when it re shows Ray removing the collar he does a coc wave too.

 

[draganax]

In the anime when luffy punches the tree in his training there is red and black coc lightning
And when it re shows Ray removing the collar he does a coc wave too.

that's it, ACoA must be triggered by basic CoC to do internal destruction, that's why people like the scabbards and hyogoro can't do it

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

CoC has nothing to do with Ryou. Just like how applications of CoC doesn't exist. Luffy was using Advanced level of CoC against Kaido hence no contact.

Rayleigh was showing the advanced kind of CoA which is coated in invisible armor.

This is normal CoA down here.

This is level 2 (on the right) and 3 (on the left) CoA.

Examples of level 2 CoA.

Examples of level 3 CoA.

 

[MonsterKaido]

What we know for now that both barrier coa and internal coa are part of arnament haki.........luffy mostly was using internal destruction haki from the start on kaido but it was too shallow......barrier haki is very common......sentomaru was able to do it , boa sisters were able to to do it, scabbards are able to do it and so on........

You can add adv coc with internal destruction to make it more lethal which is what luffy is doing currently and BM/Kaido did in chapter 1011

 

[draganax]

come to think of it, luffy never used ACoA barrier, not even to defend himself, it looks like he skipped that level all along

in the anime we've been given a reason as to why luffy only focused on internal destruction because he believes that the barrier wont be enough to damage kaido so he ignore it to learn internal destruction without understanding how it works
in the manga we didn't get a reason

luffy didn't learn the barrier, the first time luffy used haki flow perfectly he destroyed the collar, he didn't understand what he did and not even hyogoro did because he said that it was beyond what he can teach, so he told luffy to protect him with it before he forgets how he did it, internal destruction wasn't meant for protection so no barrier was created and luffy and hyogoro got slapped into the wall, luffy training was turned into a matter of trial and error until he learned how to bring it up on command, so basically everything luffy did after that was just an imitation to what he did the first time

it is not something special to luffy's armament because rayleigh can do both the barrier and internal destruction

luffy does understand the concept of flow, that's why he found it easier to coat with CoC, compared to CoA that was shallow

 

[Herrera95]

Luffy never learned Ryou. He jumped to advanced haki. Now he is using both adv armament and conqueror.
Basic conqueror was never used to improve it user's attack. That is adv conqueror only.
So I don't believe that theory only people with conqueror can break collars for example.

 

[comrade]

Luffy was using Advanced level of CoC against Kaido hence no contact

Zoro cut Kaido with a CoC infused attack making contact. Kaido's Thunder Bagua and Ragnarok also made contact while using CoC.

2 and 3 is the same in this picture. right panel is barrier hitting the cube, left panel is the Haki crushing the cube in the process.

 

[Desolate Smaug]

that's it, ACoA must be triggered by basic CoC to do internal destruction, that's why people like the scabbards and hyogoro can't do it

Worth pointing out Hygoro tells Luffy "the haki YOU wield..." Meaning the specific type haki Luffy can use makes him capable of performing internal destruction.

 

[Zenos7]

In the anime

stopped reading here

 

[sanjikun]

Yeah but Luffy performs internal destruction during his training. He also was able to take off the collars on demand. So why would the CoC realisation only be now.

Luffy unconsciously used CoC. Hyogoro mentioned this.

Post automatically merged: Apr 30, 2021

CoC has nothing to do with Ryou. Just like how applications of CoC doesn't exist. Luffy was using Advanced level of CoC against Kaido hence no contact.

Rayleigh was showing the advanced kind of CoA which is coated in invisible armor.

This is normal CoA down here.

This is level 2 (on the right) and 3 (on the left) CoA.

Examples of level 2 CoA.

Examples of level 3 CoA.

"Level 2" doesn't flow though. That's not Ryou.