You’ll notice the only people to vote Zoro tanked the attack. Are his most loyal an Diluted followers.... Everybody else with an ounce of common sense. Can Interpret the obvious, Law saves everybody.
Anybody arguing “pop” wasn’t shown, or Law not being thanked. Should probably reread chapter 789. Oda does not always indicate when shambles is being used. The argument reaching even at its base.
There’s as much reason to think that Luffy stretched his arm and dragged Zoro out of there as there is to think Law did anything other than save himself.
Or that Kid used his metallic powers to drag Zoro‘s swords, and therefore Zoro himself, out of harms way,
And that is to say, absolutely none at all.
Oda‘s made it very clear when Law’s used his powers throughout the rooftop fight
pop
pop
pop
pop
pop (oh look, there’s Law just saving himself and leaving Zoro to try and dodge while carrying Luffy at the same time, why on earth would he do this when it’s so easy for him to move people.)
pop (another Law doesn’t bother to help anyone else when shambling moment)
pop (here’s what actually happens when Law saves Zoro- we get to see it)
You guys are arguing that Law’s biggest supporting moment in the series, where he saves Zoro from apparently certain death from two Yonko (cause that’s the argument, right, Zoro just can’t possibly have survived that attack on his own) was... completely off-panelled. Like, not even the slightest inclination it happened. Neither pop nor the shudder lines that are used to show Law’s DF being used. It’s just so completely unimportant that it wasn‘t shown at all. Nobody even mentions anything like “good thing Law got him out of there, otherwise Zoro would be dead” or “that attack was so powerful, Zoro only took it for a second and he’s destroyed” or, you know, any suggestion that Law played any part whatsoever in saving Zoro’s life.
When really the thing that makes the most sense is the reason Zoro’s so absolutely fucked is that the full force of the attack actually hit him. Which is what Law actually says happened. And again, when he says that, doesn’t make any mention of him doing something to mitigate the damage- entirely the opposite, Law seems certain that Zoro should have had every bone in his body broken- that Zoro took and is instead just flat out amazed that Zoro is still fighting.
There’s as much reason to think that Luffy stretched his arm and dragged Zoro out of there as there is to think Law did anything other than save himself.
Or that Kid used his metallic powers to drag Zoro‘s swords, and therefore Zoro himself, out of harms way,
And that is to say, absolutely none at all.
Oda‘s made it very clear when Law’s used his powers throughout the rooftop fight
pop
pop
pop
pop
pop (oh look, there’s Law just saving himself and leaving Zoro to try and dodge while carrying Luffy at the same time, why on earth would he do this when it’s so easy for him to move people.)
pop (another Law doesn’t bother to help anyone else when shambling moment)
pop (here’s what actually happens when Law saves Zoro- we get to see it)
You guys are arguing that Law’s biggest supporting moment in the series, where he saves Zoro from apparently certain death from two Yonko (cause that’s the argument, right, Zoro just can’t possibly have survived that attack on his own) was... completely off-panelled. Like, not even the slightest inclination it happened. Neither pop nor the shudder lines that are used to show Law’s DF being used. It’s just so completely unimportant that it wasn‘t shown at all. Nobody even mentions anything like “good thing Law got him out of there, otherwise Zoro would be dead” or “that attack was so powerful, Zoro only took it for a second and he’s destroyed” or, you know, any suggestion that Law played any part whatsoever in saving Zoro’s life.
When really the thing that makes the most sense is the reason Zoro’s so absolutely fucked is that the full force of the attack actually hit him. Which is what Law actually says happened. And again, when he says that, doesn’t make any mention of him doing something to mitigate the damage- entirely the opposite, Law seems certain that Zoro should have had every bone in his body broken- that Zoro took and is instead just flat out amazed that Zoro is still fighting.
It is precisely because Oda has made it clear with the pop that it is unnecessary. If yous ee Chopper in Monster Form, the assumption is he ate 3 rumble balls. If you see Sanji in Raid Suit, the assumptio is that he put it on. You're arguing that because we didn't see a character do a thing, that perhaps Sanji could be carrying the raid suit in a custom wardrobe built by franky and it's just as likely as the obvious thing.
It is precisely because Oda has made it clear with the pop that it is unnecessary. If yous ee Chopper in Monster Form, the assumption is he ate 3 rumble balls. If you see Sanji in Raid Suit, the assumptio is that he put it on. You're arguing that because we didn't see a character do a thing, that perhaps Sanji could be carrying the raid suit in a custom wardrobe built by franky and it's just as likely as the obvious thing.
We know Chopper needs to eat one (not three) Rumble Balls to go into Monster Point. Oda can skip this.
We know that Sanji needs to put the RS on in order to wear the RS. Oda can skip Sanji doing it.
We do not know that Law saved Zoro there. There is absolutely no indication that Law saved Zoro there. The scene does not exist. The tell-tale signs that Oda uses meticulously to show that Law’s DF on a person are not there. No character makes any mention of the fact that Law apparently saved Zoro from a certain death. Law himself says that Zoro took the attack, and the fact that Zoro is totally fucked supports that. Oda apparently skipping this scene then- makes no sense.
Zoro literally tells everyone to use to run away the page before, that’s we see Law start to shamble himself. That’s the thing that we know Law did.
What you guys need to prove is that in addition to saving himself, Law also saves Zoro from annihilation despite the fact there is no more supporting that than there is the idea that Luffy used his stretching powers to drag Zoro out of the firing line.
There’s as much reason to think that Luffy stretched his arm and dragged Zoro out of there as there is to think Law did anything other than save himself.
Or that Kid used his metallic powers to drag Zoro‘s swords, and therefore Zoro himself, out of harms way,
And that is to say, absolutely none at all.
Oda‘s made it very clear when Law’s used his powers throughout the rooftop fight
pop
pop
pop
pop
pop (oh look, there’s Law just saving himself and leaving Zoro to try and dodge while carrying Luffy at the same time, why on earth would he do this when it’s so easy for him to move people.)
pop (another Law doesn’t bother to help anyone else when shambling moment)
pop (here’s what actually happens when Law saves Zoro- we get to see it)
You guys are arguing that Law’s biggest supporting moment in the series, where he saves Zoro from apparently certain death from two Yonko (cause that’s the argument, right, Zoro just can’t possibly have survived that attack on his own) was... completely off-panelled. Like, not even the slightest inclination it happened. Neither pop nor the shudder lines that are used to show Law’s DF being used. It’s just so completely unimportant that it wasn‘t shown at all. Nobody even mentions anything like “good thing Law got him out of there, otherwise Zoro would be dead” or “that attack was so powerful, Zoro only took it for a second and he’s destroyed” or, you know, any suggestion that Law played any part whatsoever in saving Zoro’s life.
When really the thing that makes the most sense is the reason Zoro’s so absolutely fucked is that the full force of the attack actually hit him. Which is what Law actually says happened. And again, when he says that, doesn’t make any mention of him doing something to mitigate the damage- entirely the opposite, Law seems certain that Zoro should have had every bone in his body broken- that Zoro took and is instead just flat out amazed that Zoro is still fighting.
Step 1-Kaido and Big Mom launch crazy impressive joint attack
Step 2-Zoro jumps in front to block it
Step 3-Zoro tells everyone to run away
Step 4-Zoro is badly, badly injured by the attack
What you guys are arguing is that there is a secret step that the reader did not get to see
Step 3.5- Law uses his DF powers to move Zoro away, stopping him from taking the full force of the attack and therefore saving his life, or at the least mitigating the force of the attack to a large extent
And that it apparently makes perfect sense to assume this vitally important secret step happened despite absolutely no indication that it did.
Step 1-Kaido and Big Mom launch crazy impressive joint attack
Step 2-Zoro jumps in front to block it
Step 3-Zoro tells everyone to run away
Step 4-Zoro is badly, badly injured by the attack
What you guys are arguing is that there is a secret step that the reader did not get to see
Step 3.5- Law uses his DF powers to move Zoro away, stopping him from taking the full force of the attack and therefore saving his life, or at the least mitigating the force of the attack to a large extent
And that it apparently makes perfect sense to assume this vitally important secret step happened despite absolutely no indication that it did.
This is the best put argument for our side. well worded too.
the quesiton to ask everyone who is theoretically, or was theoretically on the fence is does 3.5 is truly do you believe logic is greater than proof or not
That argument isn't a strong one, because we didn't get to see anything actually take place, where the pop would have taken place is when Oda zoomed out the panel, then we only get to see the aftereffect.
Regarding Oda not highlighting "Law's biggest support moment".
You tell me what makes more sense, Oda leaving a support moment for Law ambiguous or Oda leaving the greatest endurance feat for Zoro ambiguous? Because that's exactly what he did in that scene, doesn't matter which side you're arguing for. It just makes less sense to me that he would botch the single greatest tanking feat the way that he did, he essentially offpanelled it.
What's more unbelievable than Zoro pulling the feat off, is him pulling it off and Oda doing nothing to properly highlight it. For such a massive feat you would think he'd take every chance he can get to glamourize it in typical Oda fashion. Kaidou and Big Mom were shocked when he blocked it but no reaction to him redirecting or tanking the entire attack?
There’s as much reason to think that Luffy stretched his arm and dragged Zoro out of there as there is to think Law did anything other than save himself.
Or that Kid used his metallic powers to drag Zoro‘s swords, and therefore Zoro himself, out of harms way,
And that is to say, absolutely none at all.
Oda‘s made it very clear when Law’s used his powers throughout the rooftop fight
pop
pop
pop
pop
pop (oh look, there’s Law just saving himself and leaving Zoro to try and dodge while carrying Luffy at the same time, why on earth would he do this when it’s so easy for him to move people.)
pop (another Law doesn’t bother to help anyone else when shambling moment)
pop (here’s what actually happens when Law saves Zoro- we get to see it)
You guys are arguing that Law’s biggest supporting moment in the series, where he saves Zoro from apparently certain death from two Yonko (cause that’s the argument, right, Zoro just can’t possibly have survived that attack on his own) was... completely off-panelled. Like, not even the slightest inclination it happened. Neither pop nor the shudder lines that are used to show Law’s DF being used. It’s just so completely unimportant that it wasn‘t shown at all. Nobody even mentions anything like “good thing Law got him out of there, otherwise Zoro would be dead” or “that attack was so powerful, Zoro only took it for a second and he’s destroyed” or, you know, any suggestion that Law played any part whatsoever in saving Zoro’s life.
When really the thing that makes the most sense is the reason Zoro’s so absolutely fucked is that the full force of the attack actually hit him. Which is what Law actually says happened. And again, when he says that, doesn’t make any mention of him doing something to mitigate the damage- entirely the opposite, Law seems certain that Zoro should have had every bone in his body broken- that Zoro took and is instead just flat out amazed that Zoro is still fighting.
So, Zoro steps in the block the attack to give everyone a chance at living. And Law, who is perfectly capable of saving every single person in that moment that Zoro bought them, decides he's just going to save himself and leave everyone else to die, including the guy who just threw his body in front of an island sized attack so he could live?
You tell me what makes more sense, Oda leaving a support moment for Law ambiguous or Oda leaving the greatest endurance feat for Zoro ambiguous? Because that's exactly what he did in that scene, doesn't matter which side you're arguing for. It just makes less sense to me that he would botch the single greatest tanking feat the way that he did, he essentially offpanelled it.
I don’t anything at all that suggests it’s ambiguous as to what Zoro did. There’s a reason that Zoro is currently in the state he’s in- the attack hit him. He was only able to block it for a second that allowed everyone else to get away. That’s exaclty what Kid and Law said happened.
And Oda did comment on how impressive it was that Zoro did what he did.
Big Mom’s “they got away, eh? Very impressive.” That’s not praise to anyone other than Zoro, because Zoro’s the only reason anyone got away and Big Mom and Kaido both saw that Zoro was the one who blocked the attack.
Kid complimenting Zoro- I think that’s the only time in the entire raid that tsundere king Kid has actually praised anyone
Killer asking Zoro if he could manage, obviosu implication being that he doesn’t really think he could take that attack and fight on.
Law’s statement of “how is he still fighting? That last attack could have shattered every bone in his body!” Which is... really self-explanatory.
And we’ll see what is said when the story gets back to Zoro under the roof, because it’s obvious he’ll need treatment.
Where’s the ambiguity? What suggests that anything other than Zoro tooking the attack took place? How come Oda decided to have everyone on the roof other than Luffy and Kaido talk about Zoro taking the attack and not a single person mentioning the vitally important step of Law ssving Zoro’s life? Is the problem that Zoro doing the thing wasn’t impressive enough, we also need to have Kaido fall over himself wanking the feat as well?
So, Zoro steps in the block the attack to give everyone a chance at living. And Law, who is perfectly capable of saving every single person in that moment that Zoro bought them, decides he's just going to save himself and leave everyone else to die, including the guy who just threw his body in front of an island sized attack so he could live?
Attack is launched, Oda makes sure to mention through Killer that there’s no way to get out of the way of it
Attack is blocked by Zoro. We see the attack being held off by Zoro in the top panel, Big Mom and Kaido react in the middle, Zoro telling everyone to get out of the way in the bottom
Next set of panels, Oda shows everyone moving. Law is using Shambles cause that’s how he moves himself
Panel after, Zoro can’t hold the block any longer, attack follows through.
Brief view of the environment, Big Mom says it was impressive, then we have Kid giving us the timeframe
Later on, Law confirms that Zoro took the attack, he didn’t just block it
All this paints a pretty obvious picture- the attack was over and done with in seconds. It’s not like Law was standing about for minutes watching Zoro hold off the attack and did diddly squat about it. The attack was launched, Zoro briefly blocked it, everyone panicked and ran, he couldn’t hold the block any longer and the attack wiped him out. That’s what all the dialogue and images show.
Law’s supposed intervention is complete fantasy. It would have been too important a step to have been missed out entirely by Oda, when a single line of dialogue or image could have told us what happened. Law didn’t do it because everything happened so fast, he reacted to save himself. Over and done with in a second, that’s what Kid tells us- brief block, everyone bolts, Zoro gets hit. Hence the should-be broken bones and the coughing up blood and the collapsing in a heal. Nothing suggests it was blocking the attack that did that, Law, the surgeon, said it was the attack hitting him that did it. And didn’t think “good thing I got you out of the way so it didn’t actuaylly hit you, eh?”
It’s not the first time in the raid that Law has only used his fruit to save himself from a wide-spread attack, leaving a heavily disadvantaged Zoro to fend for himself either
If it’s so easy for Law to move everyone around like pieces in a chessboard, why isn’t he doing it there?
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I have to question whether it would even be possible for Law to move Zoro there.
Law literally just told us just before Hakai what everyone should have known- strong Haki blocks Law’s powers. That’s why he can’t move the Yonko about.
Do people not think that at that moment Zoro is using every ounce of his Haki to block Hakai? Is there any reason to think that Law could move Zoro in that state? Zoro’s got better Haki than Law does anyway- Haki has never been emphasised as a particular skill of Law’s, Zoro on the other hand has all three forms and is capable of permanantly wounding Kaido using it- and if Haki blooms in extreme circumstances, it must have blooming a hell of lot there.
The argument sucks, whatever way I look at it. Non existent scenes, non existent dialogue, questions over wheter it’s even possible for Law to do it. All the panels and the dialogue support Zoro blocking the attack for a second, getting hit, Law does zilch.
Looks like Law shambled Zoro before he would have been sent flying by the aftermath of the attack.
There is also something weird; if Zoro took the full brunt of Hakai, why would he ask the other supernovae to get out of the way if not they(including himself) would die,if he could just take it alone and be conscious after it? Why even the need for them to get outta the way?
Kaido and Big Mom not saying the attack has been deflected or reacting to Zoro's tanking leaves me sceptical about Zoro taking the full brunt of Hakai.
Lastly,It may not be very relevant of an argument,but Kaidou would have given Zoro way more praise(above Oden) at the end of the rooftop if Zoro managed to scar him after taking full Hakai, instead he still sees Zoro and the other supernova below Oden judging by the difference in respect he gives both.
Not necessarily. Luffy was flat out oneshot by Kaido in Act One, took Thunder Bagua straight to the chest, and wasn’t sent flying. I’m not sure where this assumption that Zoro taking the attack would mean he had to get blown entirely off the island comes from.
There is also something weird; if Zoro took the full brunt of Hakai, why would he ask the other supernovae to get out of the way if not they(including himself) would die,if he could just take it alone and be conscious after it? Why even the need for them to get outta the way?
Kaido and Big Mom not saying the attack has been deflected or reacting to Zoro's tanking leaves me sceptical about Zoro taking the full brunt of Hakai.
We have a direct statement from Law saying that Zoro took the attack
We have zero statements or scenes that in any way imply Law did a thing other than save himself.
And yet people ignore Law’s statement, say that Kaido and Big Mom didn’t react enough, but yet somehow assume a thing that no character has said and was not shown happened?
Lastly,It may not be very relevant of an argument,but Kaidou would have given Zoro way more praise(above Oden) at the end of the rooftop if Zoro managed to scar him after taking full Hakai, instead he still sees Zoro and the other supernova below Oden judging by the difference in respect he gives both.
All subjective. There is no reason to assume that Kaido would need to view what Zoro did as more impressive as what Oden did.
Kaido was impressed by Oden because Oden would have killed him but for the hag’s intervention- which Zoro didn’t do. He was even further impressed by him because Oden died in glorious fashion- Zoro is not dead.
Kaido’s praise for Zoro is to be expected for what he has accomplished so far.
Zoro clearly told them to get outta the way,if not they would all die though(including himself).
Don't get how it went from "we will all die otherwise" to i took it alone and i'm still conscious after it.
I also always took Law asking Zoro if he is still alive as fact he indeed teleported Zoro away when reading the chapter.
It's subjective though as I got no concrete proof.
We have a direct statement from Law saying that Zoro took the attack
We have zero statements or scenes that in any way imply Law did a thing other than save himself.
And yet people ignore Law’s statement, say that Kaido and Big Mom didn’t react enough, but yet somehow assume a thing that no character has said and was not shown happened?
Taking the attack doesn't mean Law didn't teleport him away though,Zoro taking it even for 2 seconds still counts as taking it.
You guys talk about clear statements from law but the 2 happening aren't mutually exclusive.
Back in 1002,We also had a clear statement from Zoro saying he missed Kaidou with Hiryuu Kaen, didn't stop any of you from using common sense and conclude Kaidou actually dodged.
If Zoro indeed took the whole attack,it would have been more emphasized by Oda imo and all the supernovas wouldn't have ended on the same spot as Zoro directly after the aftermath of Hakai,when they were trying to escape in different directions.
Not at all,Kaidou would be praiseful of anyone on earth who managed to stop a combined attack of this magnitude and hail it above what Oden accomplished against him.
Kaido was impressed by Oden because Oden would have killed him but for the hag’s intervention- which Zoro didn’t do. He was even further impressed by him because Oden died in glorious fashion- Zoro is not dead.
Doesn't change the fact that taking the full brunt of Hakai and still be able to put up a fight is something above everything Oden did in his fight against Kaido and Kaido and Big Mom would have commented about that.
You talk about clear statements from law saying Zoro took the attack, I can do the opposite and ask you why Kaidou and Big Mom never said anything like that,infact they just said " they managed to escape huh,impressive", no blocking,tanking nor deflecting from their mouths and they actually saw Zoro attempting to block it when Hakai was launched.
That argument isn't a strong one, because we didn't get to see anything actually take place, where the pop would have taken place is when Oda zoomed out the panel, then we only get to see the aftereffect.
Regarding Oda not highlighting "Law's biggest support moment".
You tell me what makes more sense, Oda leaving a support moment for Law ambiguous or Oda leaving the greatest endurance feat for Zoro ambiguous? Because that's exactly what he did in that scene, doesn't matter which side you're arguing for. It just makes less sense to me that he would botch the single greatest tanking feat the way that he did, he essentially offpanelled it.
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What's more unbelievable than Zoro pulling the feat off, is him pulling it off and Oda doing nothing to properly highlight it. For such a massive feat you would think he'd take every chance he can get to glamourize it in typical Oda fashion. Kaidou and Big Mom were shocked when he blocked it but no reaction to him redirecting or tanking the entire attack?
I don't know the absolute truth on this matter and it can be said both sides have arguments in their favor,if not many.
However I'm pretty sure if this was another character like Luffy,law or Kid,most people now saying Zoro took the whole attack would have said the opposite under the same circumstances.
I don't know if it's double standards but at times it just seems like arguing for the sake of arguing in favor/against a character
I don't know the absolute truth on this matter and it can be said both sides have arguments in their favor,if not many.
However I'm pretty sure if this was another character like Luffy,law or Kid,most people now saying Zoro took the whole attack would have said the opposite under the same circumstances.
I don't know if it's double standards but at times it just seems like arguing for the sake of arguing in favor/against a character
There is nothing in the manga that even hints law moved zoro. If the written spoilers didn't say he did (which is redons own opinion and doesn't mean shit) no one would say he did.
There is nothing in the manga that even hints law moved zoro. If the written spoilers didn't say he did (which is redons own opinion and doesn't mean shit) no one would say he did.
Many didn't read the spoilers in other forums and still believe that Law teleported him away free-wilingly.
I admit this situation is not clear and evidence can be found for or against it but you know damn well you would have been arguing the exact opposite if people were wanking any other supernova with this feat lol.
Many didn't read the spoilers in other forums and still believe that Law teleported him away free-wilingly.
I admit this situation is not clear and evidence can be found for or against it but you know damn well you would have been arguing the exact opposite if people were wanking any other supernova with this feat lol.
No they don't. I've watched multiple live reactions of that chapter and they all have to be TOLD by the comments law moved him.
Once again its not true. At the start I had no qualms saying law moved him but nothing shows it there's no hints no dialogue no nothing. Law himself said zoro took the attack not blocked. Took.
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