Capitalism vs Communism
- Thread starter Yubel
- Start date
I'm currently living in Ukraine but I was born in Georgia 1997. My father was born in Ukraine in 1966, all his youth he lived in USSR, a true communist heaven for communists. Just like my father my mother was also born in USSR, my grandfather and grandmother were also born in USSR. While my great–grandfather and great–grandmother had witnessed the beginning and the peak of the USSR. As you can see, all my family lived through the beginning and the end of the Soviet Union, and I'm currently living after the USSR as the 4th generation member of my family. I'm currently 23 and the Country in which I live in, is fairly socialist, it obviously isn't communist but as a post–communist area it's pretty socialistic.
So, what do we have here: My family lived through USSR, a true communist country, and I'm currently living in a socialist country. Now, let's see what it's like to live in countries ruled ether by communists or socialists. Both my great–grandfather and great–grandmother from my father's side were war veterans, they fought against the nazi Germany. My great–grandmother was a doctor while my great–grandfather was a regular red army soldier. My great–grandfather got injured in the war in his head, that injury wasn't that much of a problem but he never really got treated properly. The shrapnel stuck in his head and he somehow lived through the war with that thing in his head. After the war my great–grandfather needed a surgery but before he could get one the red army came to his home. You see, the communist government decided to develop an undeveloped area in modern Kazakhstan, it was a remote place with harsh conditions, nobody would go there by their free will–so the government decided to enforce their will upon their citizens. One day, a fother of 5 and a military veteran with honorary medals, was forced to relocate to that remote place in Kazakhstan. Nobody gave a shit to the fact that he was enjured and that he was a military veteran, no respect to what he did for his country, he was just a human resource that can be used whenever the GOVERNMENT wishes so. Soon, my great–grandfather's condition got worse, he became handicapped, while my great–grandmother was providing food for her children and handicapped husband. My grandmother talled these stories to my father while he talled it to me, it's something that we remember in our family.
My grandmother left her family in Kazakhstan and came to Gorgia, she then met my grandfather who was a humble taxi driver. They eventually got married and had 3 children. My father lived a regular communist life, he never saw or tasted banana or any exotic fruit in his entire life in USSR; he never wore jeans or drove a car that could be considered car by western standards; he never got educated properly–he lived too far from Moscow for good education; he served in the military since it was mandatory in USSR; he didn't have the right to open a business or by second car or home; he never had access to good healthcare etc. I can continue with this for quite some time...
Now, fast forward to my generation. I'll just bring one example from my life and I think that would be enough. A couple of years ago I got angina/Tonsillitis, because of that a fluid started accumulating in my ears (which I didn't know back then) eventually my condition got worse enough so I called an Ambulance. So, they checked me and refused to tell me anything, that means that they want me to pay them, even though healthcare is absolutely free in my country. After I payed them they gave me some pills and said that everything's ok, just drink the pills and you'll be all right. Guess what happened after? My condition got even worse. I called a taxi and drove to the best hospital in my city, the doctor talled me that I need a surgery and "as soon as possible" or I'll lose my hearing. Let me explain what that means: in my country the healthcare is absolutely free, that means that the doctors get payed very little, they also get payed regardless wether they do their job properly or not–In result, the doctors always try to make more money from their patients. You could say that it's just the doctors are bad, but that's not true. Being a doctor in a socialist country is a horrible job: hospitals get little to no many from the government, equipment is usually 50+ years old, rooms for patients are old and in a very bad condition; the doctors themselves can't make a living with the wages that the government pays them. Long story sort, people who are willing to work in those conditions need to make money for their families, so they do everything they can–it's not their fault. But the most important part from all of this, is that the good doctors with experience are usually hired by the private hospitals because they pay 'way more' than the government–subsidized healthcare. Eventually, I payed to the doctor, and I've already done it twice even though the healthcare is free, and asked him to tell me the truth. The doctor looked at me and said "well, surgery is the last reserve, I think we can fix you whiteout it" and they started a procedure from 1930 when they blow air into my nose and the air comes out of the ears blowing out the fluid in the process. I've been going through that procedure for like a month, with little to no results, eventually I've had enough and I decided to go into a private hospital. The private hospital wasn't cheap but I didn't care because my health was the most important thing, I didn't care how much money I'd spend in result, I wanted my hearing back by any means. So the new doctor checked me and gave me some fluid-based medicine that penetrated into my ear and vaporized the fluid, my hearing was back in 24 hours. When I talled this new doctor in private hospital what had happened, he laughed and said to me: "what surgery? Are they out of their mind!? You don't need a surgery for something like this."
In the process of recovering my hearing back, we discovered that my hearing was permanently damaged by the air that they were blowing to my nose. In result, I ended up spending twice as much as I would have if I had gone to the private hospital from the beginning, and ended up with permanently damaged hearing. You might think that it's just the Ukraine is fucked up and in other socialist countries things are way better, but that's not particularly true. Ukraine is a poor country with a war going on for 7/8 years as of right now–with no seeming end to it. Because of that some people decided to emigrate ether to Canada or the US; Canada is a semi-socialist country, it isn't really socialist but it for sure has socialist side to it, especially with the healthcare. So I asked everyone that I know who currently live in Canada and the US about their healthcare. The Ukrainian-Canadian talled me that the only difference between Canadian healthcare and Ukrainian healthcare, is that the hospitals in Canada are relatively new and very clean with relatively new equipment. The healthcare in Canada has the same issues as the Ukrainian healthcare: huge queue/ line to the doctor, the doctors get payed less than they do in the US, and overall the healthcare in Canada is way worse than in the US. Both Canadian and US Ukrainians talled me that the Canadians themselves go to the US for proper healthcare.
My friends and relatives who emigrated to the US have opened small businesses in just 4/5 years. They pray to America and have become the most diehearted Trump supporters who think that communism is the biggest threat to humanity, can you believe in that😂. Hell, my father who has been a dieheart COMMUNIST for 4 decades, for fucking 4 decades, has openly admitted to me that capitalism is better than socialism–till this day I'm reminding him about it😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. I hate those spoiled children-like adults in capitalist countries who are always bitching about their lives and how they wanna live like millionaires. People always complain about something, it doesn't matter whether they have everything they want or not, hell even the billionaires complain about their lives–everyone has his own problems. I remember reading about the Roman Emperors and it turns out that the best Emperor who lifted the living standards was hated by the Romans, while one of the worst Emperors was given a GOD like status, the Romans loved him. When humans have everything they need they always complain cuz they're bored, if humans truly struggle, truly fight for their food then they simply don't have time or the luxury to complain–complaining can be afforded only by the citizens of the capitalist countries.
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I have to say this: thanks to communist Joe and his insane spending of the Taxpayer's money + the insane money printing the US dollar will devaluat, though it's hard to tell how much, ether way the US citizens will face inflation of their economy to some degree.
Now, for those who endlessly complain about capitalism, you guys will be able taste the tip of the iceberg of the disaster called communism. But don't worry pals, America will never become a true communist country, but, it's unfortunately becoming a semi-socialist country.
So, what do we have here: My family lived through USSR, a true communist country, and I'm currently living in a socialist country. Now, let's see what it's like to live in countries ruled ether by communists or socialists. Both my great–grandfather and great–grandmother from my father's side were war veterans, they fought against the nazi Germany. My great–grandmother was a doctor while my great–grandfather was a regular red army soldier. My great–grandfather got injured in the war in his head, that injury wasn't that much of a problem but he never really got treated properly. The shrapnel stuck in his head and he somehow lived through the war with that thing in his head. After the war my great–grandfather needed a surgery but before he could get one the red army came to his home. You see, the communist government decided to develop an undeveloped area in modern Kazakhstan, it was a remote place with harsh conditions, nobody would go there by their free will–so the government decided to enforce their will upon their citizens. One day, a fother of 5 and a military veteran with honorary medals, was forced to relocate to that remote place in Kazakhstan. Nobody gave a shit to the fact that he was enjured and that he was a military veteran, no respect to what he did for his country, he was just a human resource that can be used whenever the GOVERNMENT wishes so. Soon, my great–grandfather's condition got worse, he became handicapped, while my great–grandmother was providing food for her children and handicapped husband. My grandmother talled these stories to my father while he talled it to me, it's something that we remember in our family.
My grandmother left her family in Kazakhstan and came to Gorgia, she then met my grandfather who was a humble taxi driver. They eventually got married and had 3 children. My father lived a regular communist life, he never saw or tasted banana or any exotic fruit in his entire life in USSR; he never wore jeans or drove a car that could be considered car by western standards; he never got educated properly–he lived too far from Moscow for good education; he served in the military since it was mandatory in USSR; he didn't have the right to open a business or by second car or home; he never had access to good healthcare etc. I can continue with this for quite some time...
Now, fast forward to my generation. I'll just bring one example from my life and I think that would be enough. A couple of years ago I got angina/Tonsillitis, because of that a fluid started accumulating in my ears (which I didn't know back then) eventually my condition got worse enough so I called an Ambulance. So, they checked me and refused to tell me anything, that means that they want me to pay them, even though healthcare is absolutely free in my country. After I payed them they gave me some pills and said that everything's ok, just drink the pills and you'll be all right. Guess what happened after? My condition got even worse. I called a taxi and drove to the best hospital in my city, the doctor talled me that I need a surgery and "as soon as possible" or I'll lose my hearing. Let me explain what that means: in my country the healthcare is absolutely free, that means that the doctors get payed very little, they also get payed regardless wether they do their job properly or not–In result, the doctors always try to make more money from their patients. You could say that it's just the doctors are bad, but that's not true. Being a doctor in a socialist country is a horrible job: hospitals get little to no many from the government, equipment is usually 50+ years old, rooms for patients are old and in a very bad condition; the doctors themselves can't make a living with the wages that the government pays them. Long story sort, people who are willing to work in those conditions need to make money for their families, so they do everything they can–it's not their fault. But the most important part from all of this, is that the good doctors with experience are usually hired by the private hospitals because they pay 'way more' than the government–subsidized healthcare. Eventually, I payed to the doctor, and I've already done it twice even though the healthcare is free, and asked him to tell me the truth. The doctor looked at me and said "well, surgery is the last reserve, I think we can fix you whiteout it" and they started a procedure from 1930 when they blow air into my nose and the air comes out of the ears blowing out the fluid in the process. I've been going through that procedure for like a month, with little to no results, eventually I've had enough and I decided to go into a private hospital. The private hospital wasn't cheap but I didn't care because my health was the most important thing, I didn't care how much money I'd spend in result, I wanted my hearing back by any means. So the new doctor checked me and gave me some fluid-based medicine that penetrated into my ear and vaporized the fluid, my hearing was back in 24 hours. When I talled this new doctor in private hospital what had happened, he laughed and said to me: "what surgery? Are they out of their mind!? You don't need a surgery for something like this."
In the process of recovering my hearing back, we discovered that my hearing was permanently damaged by the air that they were blowing to my nose. In result, I ended up spending twice as much as I would have if I had gone to the private hospital from the beginning, and ended up with permanently damaged hearing. You might think that it's just the Ukraine is fucked up and in other socialist countries things are way better, but that's not particularly true. Ukraine is a poor country with a war going on for 7/8 years as of right now–with no seeming end to it. Because of that some people decided to emigrate ether to Canada or the US; Canada is a semi-socialist country, it isn't really socialist but it for sure has socialist side to it, especially with the healthcare. So I asked everyone that I know who currently live in Canada and the US about their healthcare. The Ukrainian-Canadian talled me that the only difference between Canadian healthcare and Ukrainian healthcare, is that the hospitals in Canada are relatively new and very clean with relatively new equipment. The healthcare in Canada has the same issues as the Ukrainian healthcare: huge queue/ line to the doctor, the doctors get payed less than they do in the US, and overall the healthcare in Canada is way worse than in the US. Both Canadian and US Ukrainians talled me that the Canadians themselves go to the US for proper healthcare.
My friends and relatives who emigrated to the US have opened small businesses in just 4/5 years. They pray to America and have become the most diehearted Trump supporters who think that communism is the biggest threat to humanity, can you believe in that😂. Hell, my father who has been a dieheart COMMUNIST for 4 decades, for fucking 4 decades, has openly admitted to me that capitalism is better than socialism–till this day I'm reminding him about it😂😂😂😂😂😂😂. I hate those spoiled children-like adults in capitalist countries who are always bitching about their lives and how they wanna live like millionaires. People always complain about something, it doesn't matter whether they have everything they want or not, hell even the billionaires complain about their lives–everyone has his own problems. I remember reading about the Roman Emperors and it turns out that the best Emperor who lifted the living standards was hated by the Romans, while one of the worst Emperors was given a GOD like status, the Romans loved him. When humans have everything they need they always complain cuz they're bored, if humans truly struggle, truly fight for their food then they simply don't have time or the luxury to complain–complaining can be afforded only by the citizens of the capitalist countries.
[automerge]1620588276[/automerge]
I have to say this: thanks to communist Joe and his insane spending of the Taxpayer's money + the insane money printing the US dollar will devaluat, though it's hard to tell how much, ether way the US citizens will face inflation of their economy to some degree.
Now, for those who endlessly complain about capitalism, you guys will be able taste the tip of the iceberg of the disaster called communism. But don't worry pals, America will never become a true communist country, but, it's unfortunately becoming a semi-socialist country.
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Lmao the Nordic countries are more free market then the US is.
Not at all.
False.
Communism has never and will never work. It's best left in the pages of the theory books. Free Market Capitalism will never exist and the countries closest to it past and present, are failing in some sort of way whether it be Japan or Singapore.
I prefer Capitalism to Socialism any day of the week but you need to find a balance between them
Not at all.
False.
Communism has never and will never work. It's best left in the pages of the theory books. Free Market Capitalism will never exist and the countries closest to it past and present, are failing in some sort of way whether it be Japan or Singapore.
I prefer Capitalism to Socialism any day of the week but you need to find a balance between them
I've read your entire post, this is the best post made on this thread.
Alot of these people don't know what they're talking about, they have no idea how blessed they are living in capitalist/non-communist countries yet they're so ungrateful.
Hopefully they're not going to have to experience the hell that is communism first hand before they wake up, I don't wish that on anyone.
Alot of these people don't know what they're talking about, they have no idea how blessed they are living in capitalist/non-communist countries yet they're so ungrateful.
Hopefully they're not going to have to experience the hell that is communism first hand before they wake up, I don't wish that on anyone.
I probably have bias towards communism because I'm from Vietnam which is a communist country. Anyhow, while capitalism doesn't provide free services for those who in need, communism provide "free market" to middle social classes and wealthy. That's not a bad thing but they have drawbacks like demand and individual rights. The reason why communism looks bad towards other countries is because it's started from the Cold War in America where Russia start spreading propaganda of authoritarian and dictatorship hence the Domino theory. Karl Marx's idea of communism is potent but the practice of it by China and Russia is what makes it look horrible. I get that you have to work hard to the bone in the communist state but that's better than capitalism where people doesn't get the same wealth as the upper class and no free market services for other people. That's my point of view.
I just stumbled upon this thread and thought maybe I'll share my opinions here, since i don't like to talk such topics on other social media platforms like twitter, youtube and reddit because most of the time its just people circlejerking and a lot of the time they don't know what they are talking about.
So here goes.
Honestly, in my opinion no any one system is perfect, and i think society should actually strive to invent and improve their systems rather than just pick and choose and stick with them, otherwise it all just becomes very stagnant and ineffective in responding to change. The world changes all the time, and the systems should learn to adapt along with it.
Now on to the actual question. Communism vs Capitalism.
If we're being honest here I think neither system is perfect, they both have their own problems that are hard to ignore.
I think the idea of capitalism is important because the creation of wealth is one of the most important requirements for human development. That's how its supposed to be anyway and that's what they tell you, but its not perfect, it has real problems- and often times it is capitalism that is holding and pushing people down, not helping and lifting them up- this is especially true for the poor and working class, and at times even now the middle class. So much of the benefits of capitalism are controlled by the minority and not the majority means that the fruits of capitalism are not fairly distributed to the masses, which is the idealism that people who vouch for capitalism preach in the first place. Capitalism offers the rich fruits for everyone, but not everyone gets them, and a large chunk of it is held into the hands of the very rich few. What's worse is that this can trap people in their economic situations. The poor and working class can all have the chance to one day become rich, but they can also remain poor or just a middle income earner forever. This is true for the majority, and its a big problem as its the rich few who take up the biggest slice of the pie.
Capitalism was the reason why effective vaccines were developed in record time, and capitalism is also why the vaccines prices are getting jacked up due to higher demand and is also why the best vaccines are being brought by rich countries.
I know a lot of people like to use the US as the example- but i think a more fitting example is hong kong. It shows how destructive capitalism can be when its taken to the extreme and left unchecked. Hong Kong is one of the richest cities in the world, with GDP per capita among one of the highest. It is a developed advanced economy. But then you look at its poor people and those that live in cage homes. Hong Kong has abandoned its poor and middle class behind- now the island is just a giant bank that manages money transfers and where people go to make money and run their businesses thanks to low taxes. They make it so attractive to investors, businesses and banks that it has come at the expense of their people. Hong Kong is one of the most densely populated cities in the world and its housing prices are one of the highest in the world. Yet less than 10% of the land is actually used for housing, the vast majority of it is used as a businesses to make money where the HK government sells the lands to companies and businesses to attract investment and earn big money off selling and renting them. Tax havens, renting off land to skyrocket housing prices, its not the ideal place for people to live a easy life unless you are dirty rich or want to live in poverty. And the whole business of renting and selling land has made other industries fall behind, along with the brain drain from certain industries because the profession just isn't there anymore. Thanks to this, Hong Kong doesn't have a strong export economy or competitive products, which can be a big obstacle in raising incomes and supporting a healthy job market. Its neighbors are all strong and heavy competitors. Both young and old hong kong people are affected by this. Lack of good job opportunities and rising housing prices was also a big drive in the 2019 Hong Kong Protests, it wasn't just about the Extradition Bill and what's happening to their freedoms.
As for communism, in theory at least it strives for a equal and more importantly classless society. Unfortunately, that is an idealistic wish, and is pretty much impossible to replicate in reality.
The problem with capitalism is that even though it can work really well, more often than not it doesn't care for the people. The problem with communism is that it cares a lot more about people and should be more fairer in wealth distribution (at least on paper). But its an almost impossible in practice as its completely unsustainable. centralizing every means of production means that you have a less competitive economy because their is no room or opportunity to grow due to the lack of domestic competition. And central planning can very easily lead to disaster because it means putting all your eggs in one basket. And a less competitive economy is an inefficient and potentially weak economy.
If i remember correctly the only country that tried and got the closest to true and complete communism-was the Soviet Union, but even they collapsed under the weight of their own inflexible system.
my final thoughts are:
Capitalisms works and it can help a lot of people, but it also fucks with a lot of people, especially the poor and unfortunate. profits come before priorities.
Communisim works well on paper and in theory should be more fairer and helpful to the working class, but in practice it is unsustainable because central planning is inflexible.
Both systems have their goods and bads.
So here goes.
Honestly, in my opinion no any one system is perfect, and i think society should actually strive to invent and improve their systems rather than just pick and choose and stick with them, otherwise it all just becomes very stagnant and ineffective in responding to change. The world changes all the time, and the systems should learn to adapt along with it.
Now on to the actual question. Communism vs Capitalism.
If we're being honest here I think neither system is perfect, they both have their own problems that are hard to ignore.
I think the idea of capitalism is important because the creation of wealth is one of the most important requirements for human development. That's how its supposed to be anyway and that's what they tell you, but its not perfect, it has real problems- and often times it is capitalism that is holding and pushing people down, not helping and lifting them up- this is especially true for the poor and working class, and at times even now the middle class. So much of the benefits of capitalism are controlled by the minority and not the majority means that the fruits of capitalism are not fairly distributed to the masses, which is the idealism that people who vouch for capitalism preach in the first place. Capitalism offers the rich fruits for everyone, but not everyone gets them, and a large chunk of it is held into the hands of the very rich few. What's worse is that this can trap people in their economic situations. The poor and working class can all have the chance to one day become rich, but they can also remain poor or just a middle income earner forever. This is true for the majority, and its a big problem as its the rich few who take up the biggest slice of the pie.
Capitalism was the reason why effective vaccines were developed in record time, and capitalism is also why the vaccines prices are getting jacked up due to higher demand and is also why the best vaccines are being brought by rich countries.
I know a lot of people like to use the US as the example- but i think a more fitting example is hong kong. It shows how destructive capitalism can be when its taken to the extreme and left unchecked. Hong Kong is one of the richest cities in the world, with GDP per capita among one of the highest. It is a developed advanced economy. But then you look at its poor people and those that live in cage homes. Hong Kong has abandoned its poor and middle class behind- now the island is just a giant bank that manages money transfers and where people go to make money and run their businesses thanks to low taxes. They make it so attractive to investors, businesses and banks that it has come at the expense of their people. Hong Kong is one of the most densely populated cities in the world and its housing prices are one of the highest in the world. Yet less than 10% of the land is actually used for housing, the vast majority of it is used as a businesses to make money where the HK government sells the lands to companies and businesses to attract investment and earn big money off selling and renting them. Tax havens, renting off land to skyrocket housing prices, its not the ideal place for people to live a easy life unless you are dirty rich or want to live in poverty. And the whole business of renting and selling land has made other industries fall behind, along with the brain drain from certain industries because the profession just isn't there anymore. Thanks to this, Hong Kong doesn't have a strong export economy or competitive products, which can be a big obstacle in raising incomes and supporting a healthy job market. Its neighbors are all strong and heavy competitors. Both young and old hong kong people are affected by this. Lack of good job opportunities and rising housing prices was also a big drive in the 2019 Hong Kong Protests, it wasn't just about the Extradition Bill and what's happening to their freedoms.
As for communism, in theory at least it strives for a equal and more importantly classless society. Unfortunately, that is an idealistic wish, and is pretty much impossible to replicate in reality.
The problem with capitalism is that even though it can work really well, more often than not it doesn't care for the people. The problem with communism is that it cares a lot more about people and should be more fairer in wealth distribution (at least on paper). But its an almost impossible in practice as its completely unsustainable. centralizing every means of production means that you have a less competitive economy because their is no room or opportunity to grow due to the lack of domestic competition. And central planning can very easily lead to disaster because it means putting all your eggs in one basket. And a less competitive economy is an inefficient and potentially weak economy.
If i remember correctly the only country that tried and got the closest to true and complete communism-was the Soviet Union, but even they collapsed under the weight of their own inflexible system.
my final thoughts are:
Capitalisms works and it can help a lot of people, but it also fucks with a lot of people, especially the poor and unfortunate. profits come before priorities.
Communisim works well on paper and in theory should be more fairer and helpful to the working class, but in practice it is unsustainable because central planning is inflexible.
Both systems have their goods and bads.
Communism works you to the bone and doesn't give you anything in the end, a capitalist system makes you want to work for yourself to eventually be able to live the good life.
The only downside is there wouldn't be a welfare system to help those who can't work but that's where a bit of socialism would do great.
It's all in the dosage, I think the nordic countries are a good example of what the world should strive for, it does have its problems like it being hard to land a job without an education but it's better than most of what's out there.
The only downside is there wouldn't be a welfare system to help those who can't work but that's where a bit of socialism would do great.
It's all in the dosage, I think the nordic countries are a good example of what the world should strive for, it does have its problems like it being hard to land a job without an education but it's better than most of what's out there.
Both fail in their purest forms. Both economic systems, objectively, have pros and cons, mostly stemming from the broken condition known as being human.
Communism falls under socialism. Remember that. With communism, it's true that true communism has never been tested in reality. The question is if it can even get to the point of becoming reality--no state in modern times has ever become classless, so no state has even achieved the goals of communism to actually test it. Its pros are all ideal and theoretical. It is theoretically the perfect system. Its cons are exacerbated in real life due to being run by authoritarian or dictatorial rulers that were inept as well as corrupt and greedy. It's also more likely cause large scale damage to a nation due to the state operating everything, and if the state goes bad then it doesn't matter what economic system you're operating: you're nation is going down the drain very quickly. This is because humans aren't ants: we're not wired in a way that this can work. Communism cannot work for humans.
Capitalism is somewhat safer since you can have a tighter controls (e.g. China) or looser controls (e.g. America), but it fails for the same human conditioning. This should be clearer to people due to recent political events, but the ascension of figures such as Trump and Sanders are indicators of the failures of capitalism in spreading wealth. The destruction that it has wrought on communities in America once jobs were shipped overseas cannot be understated. A capitalist's primary interest is in their own gain rather than the gain of their state, which is why jobs are in China and not America. This is why Disney will actively pander to China's whims while virtue signaling Black Lives Matter in America.
Unlike communism, capitalism has been tested in reality, so ways to mitigate its disastrous effects have been thought of and tested. This is why you can say "let's just add these socialist (such a broad term) ideas here to mitigate problems." Communism isn't so lucky and has been stuck at the "dictators are controlling the means of production now" phase in each attempt or has switched to or are implementing aspects of capitalism. Communism relies on a very inhuman trait: selflessness. People, sadly, do not often do things selflessly, which is what a communist state would have to rely on to spur innovation. In a capitalist state, their greed will help spur innovation (in theory). At the same time, that greed will screw over individuals by ruining environments, destroying livelihoods, or just controlling affairs to place things to their advantage against competition or to favor their profit margins.
In all, this discussion is fruitless. Communism cannot even reach the state of where it's actually a reality. Capitalism, in its purest form, is just as much of a disaster as developing "communist" societies. Like many things, both systems need to be balanced by what they oppose to ensure efficiency and alignment with our human condition. "Communist" societies need capitalist elements to survive and generate economic activity (see: China, Vietnam), and capitalist societies need socialist elements to protect its citizenry from being abused by the winners of the capitalist game (see: America, Norway).
Communism falls under socialism. Remember that. With communism, it's true that true communism has never been tested in reality. The question is if it can even get to the point of becoming reality--no state in modern times has ever become classless, so no state has even achieved the goals of communism to actually test it. Its pros are all ideal and theoretical. It is theoretically the perfect system. Its cons are exacerbated in real life due to being run by authoritarian or dictatorial rulers that were inept as well as corrupt and greedy. It's also more likely cause large scale damage to a nation due to the state operating everything, and if the state goes bad then it doesn't matter what economic system you're operating: you're nation is going down the drain very quickly. This is because humans aren't ants: we're not wired in a way that this can work. Communism cannot work for humans.
Capitalism is somewhat safer since you can have a tighter controls (e.g. China) or looser controls (e.g. America), but it fails for the same human conditioning. This should be clearer to people due to recent political events, but the ascension of figures such as Trump and Sanders are indicators of the failures of capitalism in spreading wealth. The destruction that it has wrought on communities in America once jobs were shipped overseas cannot be understated. A capitalist's primary interest is in their own gain rather than the gain of their state, which is why jobs are in China and not America. This is why Disney will actively pander to China's whims while virtue signaling Black Lives Matter in America.
Unlike communism, capitalism has been tested in reality, so ways to mitigate its disastrous effects have been thought of and tested. This is why you can say "let's just add these socialist (such a broad term) ideas here to mitigate problems." Communism isn't so lucky and has been stuck at the "dictators are controlling the means of production now" phase in each attempt or has switched to or are implementing aspects of capitalism. Communism relies on a very inhuman trait: selflessness. People, sadly, do not often do things selflessly, which is what a communist state would have to rely on to spur innovation. In a capitalist state, their greed will help spur innovation (in theory). At the same time, that greed will screw over individuals by ruining environments, destroying livelihoods, or just controlling affairs to place things to their advantage against competition or to favor their profit margins.
In all, this discussion is fruitless. Communism cannot even reach the state of where it's actually a reality. Capitalism, in its purest form, is just as much of a disaster as developing "communist" societies. Like many things, both systems need to be balanced by what they oppose to ensure efficiency and alignment with our human condition. "Communist" societies need capitalist elements to survive and generate economic activity (see: China, Vietnam), and capitalist societies need socialist elements to protect its citizenry from being abused by the winners of the capitalist game (see: America, Norway).
DESPOTISM AND MERITOCRACY 
I think despotism wouldn't work well because having just one guy control everything is very inefficient. It is WAY too centralized. Often in cases such as this it causes a 'cult of personality', that is often self-destructive and damaging. No alternative voices and no opposition can lead to irreversible damage before its too late.
A lot of one-man rulers have ended up as being utter failures.
From Hitler, Hirohito and Mao back then, to Trump, Kim Jong Un and Nicolas Maduro now, despotism and one man rulers have all shown to to be: overconfident, deluded, harmless to criticism and ignorant to problems and crises when they occur.
Hell, even Narendra Modi, India's Prime Minister- who's country is a democracy, ignored his experts advice and decided to went ahead with Kumbh festival that has now devastated and plagued the country with COVID.
As for meritocracy, I think it can work, and probably even should be necessary to run any government or country, regardless of political parties or type of rule.
You have people like Donald Trump killing people by misleading them to drink hydroxide-chloroquine, and even people like Jim Jordan trying to discredit Dr Fauci's advice for his own selfish gains that can kill people.
People of expertise should have a voice on important matters where they are deemed appropriate.
After all, meritocracy has worked fairly well for china and its central committee. Their only problems are corruption, sometimes lack of understanding (although that happens way more in democracies nowadays) and bureaucracy that impedes the speed of response.
some folks are describing are associating democratic socialism with communism
not the same
sweden, norway etc are mixed-market capitalist economies.
its just regulated
to that end
that is far more superior to communism which by defn is
aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production.
no thanks . to those that enjoy that, good luck with that.
not the same
sweden, norway etc are mixed-market capitalist economies.
its just regulated
to that end
that is far more superior to communism which by defn is
aims to replace private property and a profit-based economy with public ownership and communal control of at least the major means of production.
no thanks . to those that enjoy that, good luck with that.
Sometimes I wonder how people like you try to make themselves seem smart but then say stupid shit like this 
Welfare isn't Socialism
You do know the Nords are more Capitalist than the US, Canada, and Britain right?
Guess I shouldn't expect much from a manga forum however.
Welfare isn't Socialism
You do know the Nords are more Capitalist than the US, Canada, and Britain right?
Guess I shouldn't expect much from a manga forum however.
Where do you get your knowledge from? Maybe I could do some reading.
No government interference would never work. What government level interference do you find acceptable? Federal-/state-/county-/city-level minimum wage laws? Should the government be allowed to ban the sale of certain items of services (e.g. heroin, child pornography, prostitution)? Should the government not grant limited monopolies on utilities? What about pricing controls? Corporate taxes? Environmental regulations? What about labor laws?
My family were from communist country as well later immigrated to US of A.
Communist have both good and bad sides, my grandfather had job after university and rest of my family studied for free in communist land.
However there were anomalies like if you want to earn money you cant do that because all industries and land are state owned.
Politicians were corrupt they ruled for 20 years and there were times people need to stand in line for food. It was terrible there were riots and people escaped to west Germany because people heard about the countries success.
Living in communist countries is like utopia without happiness. My parents hated it and my grandfather moved to usa because they offered better standard of living and to start business.
Overall communism benefitted lower class and workers they had easier time not much scope to aim better.
I would prefer mixed economy like sweden, Germany adopted. Combination of socialism with capitalist free market. That's why Soviet failed and american model is still preferred.
Communist have both good and bad sides, my grandfather had job after university and rest of my family studied for free in communist land.
However there were anomalies like if you want to earn money you cant do that because all industries and land are state owned.
Politicians were corrupt they ruled for 20 years and there were times people need to stand in line for food. It was terrible there were riots and people escaped to west Germany because people heard about the countries success.
Living in communist countries is like utopia without happiness. My parents hated it and my grandfather moved to usa because they offered better standard of living and to start business.
Overall communism benefitted lower class and workers they had easier time not much scope to aim better.
I would prefer mixed economy like sweden, Germany adopted. Combination of socialism with capitalist free market. That's why Soviet failed and american model is still preferred.