Current Events Why do People Expect Sanji to Solo a Calamity?

[Sword God Ryuma]

And when Enma was introduced as a sword it was never graded as cursed - unlike other cursed swords we meet through the series. If Oda makes Enma to be cursed it will a later on add on. But so far Enma hasn't been classified as cursed. You are free to look on Wiki under cursed swords

And at this point you are trying to argue a point that doesn't need arguing - Enma's ability is to suck Haki, that is its ability. So IDK whats your problem here trying to argue a point you yourself know

We learned later it works like curse blade and that was in its introduction chapter. 955 when he first gives it to Zoro.

I just told you the new vivecard put it has curse blade and Wiki means noting

You literally said its no longer Zoro power its Enma power. Enma has no Ryou in it or anything. You said Zoro going against what he stands for, when he mastering a Sword that continously tries to kill him basically. The curse Sword did this and Zoro still mastered it. Zoro is in control and Enma doesn't give him any strength or Ryou

 

[Zowo]

What about the other sword of Oden

normal sword like wado i guess nothing about it

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

There you go, an add on. But when it was introduced it wasn't graded as one, that was my point

Tengu literally told you it works like a curse blade.

 

[Peroroncino]

I am well aware what he said lol
But it was never graded as one unlike other cursed swords we met in the story

VC said it's cursed so it's fucking cursed man,why do you even care?

 

[Adam 🍎]

You literally said its no longer Zoro power its Enma power. Enma has no Ryou in it or anything. You said Zoro going against what he stands for, when he mastering a Sword that continously tries to kill him basically. The curse Sword did this and Zoro still mastered it. Zoro is in control and Enma doesn't give him any strength or Ryou

Ask yourself this

If Enma isn't that special then could Zoro do everything he did so far in Wano with it with other swords he has?
Answer is an obvious big fat no

Enma is obviously special and it is obvious it is stronger than the other swords because of its curse Ability.

And good on Zoro mastering it, still doesn't change the fact Enma is just different. If Zoro other swords are machine guns then Enma is a Bazooka

 

[BleakAsh]

Pay Pay is simply much more durable than Oven.

Just coz he's a zoan?... i actually won't deny that fact.. but it still stands an evidence to what sanji can accomplish with his base kick.... the crucial point is cracking Oven's collar bone without DJ..the best skeletal anatomy anyone had in BMP...compare that to yamato's thunder bagua which i assume is her signature move.. its stacks up quite well

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

I am well aware what he said lol
But it was never graded as one unlike other cursed swords we met in the story

Enma is just fighting against Zoro and Zoro winning and taming it. Just like with any of his Swords, but curse blades just harder to tame. Zoro basically doing extra training with these swords cause they fighting against him. Its like Rock lee weighted weights

 

[Human D Luffy]

That's just not true. The calamities are strong so he is going to need many strong hits to take King down but Sanji showed in FMI what he is capable of.
Moving someone that big and covering him in flames is an astonishing feat. And that was 10 years ago and without the RS.
Sanji is no joke.

Nope Sanji's strongest attack is diable jumbo and he been spamming it and not achieving KOs

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

He cant KO Them but he can for damn sure blitz them, He'll figure out the attack power thing, Oda will probably give him a new technique completely or increase his fire temperature.

Yes agree. but until then i am not buying his ability to KO YC1/2

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

Ask yourself this

If Enma isn't that special then could Zoro do everything he did so far in Wano with it with other swords he has?
Answer is an obvious big fat no

Enma is obviously special and it is obvious it is stronger than the other swords because of its curse Ability.

And good on Zoro mastering it, still doesn't change the fact Enma is just different. If Zoro other swords are machine guns then Enma is a Bazooka

Only thing Enma is stated to do is draw out Zoro haki. Which means Zoro has to train to control it. That made him stronger by training to control it. He even fighting fodders with it now which shows its bending to Zoro will. When he got Sandai it was a problem child too

Eventually Sandai bends to Zoro will.

Zoro has not have any issues with Enma since his training. When he got Shusui it did the sane thing and wasn't listening.

It being Stronger than his other sword is headcanon. Enma ain't any Boozka Enma takes Zoro Haki

 

[Jackteo]

Maybe, but sanji vs queen is happening then after he heals we get ZKK zoro kills king then he moves on to kaido

Sure, Zoro is going to fight a guy so similar to Shiliew before Shiliew

 

[Blother Fertitta]

Let alone two?

Are the Sanji vs King and Queen people serious? Is this some elaborate shitpost I'm missing out on? Is this coping because Sanji hasn't defeated a significant combatant solo in the New World?

I'm pretty flabbergasted. Luffy defeating Linlin in WCI seemed to have more going for it than Sanji taking down both Calamities.


Disclaimer
I don't actually hate Sanji and I'm annoyed at Sanji bashing. This is me being (perhaps brutally) honest.

As usual, I tag a lot of people for my posts. If you want to be removed from my tag lists, let me know. Likewise, if you want to be added.


Introduction
Leaving aside Sanji taking down both Calamities, I'm not confident that Sanji will defeat any Calamity solo. I have been expecting Sanji to do this for a while, but I think it's time I reevaluate. There are three broad reasons I'm losing confidence in Sanji soloing a calamity:

1. Increased scepticism of the meta-narrative
2. Powerscaling might actually matter?
3. Viability of a solo matchup given the events of the Live Floor

Increased Scepticism of the Meta Narrative

Spoiler

There's the traditional argument that Sanji will solo a Calamity (presumably Queen) because Queen feels the template of Sanji's traditional opponent:

• He's a bit goofy.
• Both love women (particularly Komurasaki)
• He has a rivalry with Zoro's presumptive opponent (King).
• He knows Sanji's father and addressed Sanji as "Judge's Son".
• He mentioned the need to take down the Strawhats' strongest combatants.
• He's the one that sent the Tobi Roppo after Sanji.

I agree that Queen is Sanji's presumptive opponent. However, recent events have undermined my confidence in Sanji defeating Queen solo.

Particularly:

• Oda had Linlin defeat Usopp's presumptive opponent (Pay Pay).
• Oda had Linlin defeat Nami's presumptive opponent (Ulti).
• Oda had Carrot lose to her presumptive opponent (Perospero) and seems to have entirely discarded the opportunity for her to get vindicated in a rematch, instead of setting up someone else (Nekomamushi) to defeat them.

Meta/pattern-based arguments are looking less credible to me seeing as Oda appears to have consistently defied such patterns.

Nami vs Ulti in particular is very stark:

Nami had far more buildup with Ulti as her opponent than Sanji does with either of the Calamities:

• Ulti defeated her already.
• While Ulti was threatening her she declared that Luffy will not stop until he becomes Pirate King.
• Ulti spent a while chasing her.
• She struck down Ulti with her lightning (twice).
• Ulti hurt Tama
• She vowed that she will defeat Ulti.
• She resolved herself to stop running and challenged Ulti head on.

And yet Nami doesn't get to defeat Ulti solo. Linlin took out Ulti. If Ulti recovers, she would likely be significantly weakened.

If Oda is willing to prevent Nami from taking down Ulti by herself despite the extensive build-up for Nami vs Ulti, then I don't think the superficial setup for Sanji vs Queen/King is sufficient to grant Sanji a solo victory.


The same argument that predicts Sanji soloing Queen also predicted:

• Usopp soloing Page One
• Nami soloing Ulti
• Carrot defeating Perospero
• Zoro never fighting Kaido
• Zoro soloing King
  • In fairness, this might still happen.

This argument has a horrendous track record, so I'm pretty dubious of Sanji soloing Queen based on this argument alone.

Powerscaling Might Actually Matter?

Spoiler

Here I take my L. I've long been an advocate that narrative trumps powerscaling, and characters will become as strong as Oda needs them to be for the narrative. Well, I took a big fat L here:

• Carrot was not strong enough to defeat Perospero and so she lost.
  • Someone that's actually strong enough (Nekomamushi) is facing Perospero instead.
• Usopp was not strong enough to defeat Pay Pay and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) him.
• Nami was not strong enough to defeat Ulti and so Linlin defeated (or at least significantly nerfed) her.

By his current showings, Sanji is not strong enough to defeat Queen even when wearing the Raid Suit.

Sanji's best showings with the Raid Suit is failing to even damage a Tobi Roppo:

Spoiler

And being able to withstand an attack from one:

Spoiler

Sanji has nothing suggesting he's actually strong enough to defeat Queen. Before I didn't think that matters because I thought the narrative trumps powerscaling, but now I think powerscaling matters.

As far as powerscaling goes, Sanji has an absolutely horrendous track record in the New World:

• He teamed up with Jimbe to take down Wadatsumi
• He was treated by fodder like Law at Punk Hazard
• He was on the back foot against a Vergo that was massively holding back
  • He wasn't using his Bamboo (his main weapon)
  • He wasn't using hardening
  • He didn't appear to be using Rokushiki techniques (bar possibly Tekkai)
• He was fodderised by Doflamingo
• He defeats Sheepshead together with Brook
  • Even then, Sheepshead is a fodder headliner
• He failed to defeat Judge
  • Or even be depicted as stronger than him
• He was never demonstrated to be above all his siblings
  • At the end of WCI, Niji still had to save him and mocked him for being way too slow.
• He did not defeat any of the Charlotte siblings in WCI
• He failed to defeat Page One even with his Raid Suit power-up
  • Page One has been portrayed as the weakest of the Tobi Roppo

Sanji's last solo victory against a significant opponent of note was pretimeskip. His combat ability presentation today has not been good. If powerscaling actually matters — if the narrative does not trump it — then I have no reason to believe that Sanji is strong enough to defeat Queen.

Viability of a Solo Matchup

Spoiler

Leaving aside the narrative and powerscaling counterarguments, I'm not sure the story actually allows Sanji to have a solo battle against any of the Calamities.

On the Alliance's side, we'll have:

• Zoro
• Marco
• Sanji
• Nekomamushi
• Drake
• Hyougoro
• Kawamatsu
• Izo
• Chopper
• The Yakuza Bosses

On the Beast Pirates side, we'll have:

• King
• Queen
• Perospero
• Apoo
  • He might defect or even go solo

I'll try and present the best-case scenario for Sanji:

• Hyougoro and the Yakuza bosses deal with fodder or recover.
  • They don't fight anyone of note.
• Nekomamushi fights Perospero
• Chopper treats Zoro
• Drake fights Apoo
• Marco (or Zoro + Izo) deal with King

This still leaves at least Sanji and Kawamatsu to take on Queen.

And honestly speaking, I don't expect this to be how it shakes out. For entirely separate reasons, I doubt Zoro — even a brutally injured Zoro — would tag-team a swordsman with another one. FIghting despite injuries that would cripple anyone else is his entire shtick.

Exhibit A:

Spoiler

Exhibit B:

Exhibit C:

There may be others, but this isn't supposed to be a Zoro thread, so I'll stop here for now.

I also don't think Drake will fight Apoo. Queen backstabbing and discarding Apoo was really highlighted, and I got the impression that Apoo was reconsidering his entire allegiance to the Beast Pirates:

Spoiler

So I'm actually expecting Sanji to face Queen alongside some combination of (Drake, Kawamatsu and Izo).

Perhaps I'm wrong on Zoro and he'll face King with backup from Izo, and I'm wrong on Apoo and he'll face Drake, but that still leaves Kawamatsu unaccounted for. Ultimately, I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that permits Sanji to defeat Queen solo.

I expect Sanji to land the last hit, and maybe his support would be defeated along the way and the match would end in a 1 vs 1. I can see a Doflamingo vs Luffy and Law situation being plausible. That still isn't a solo match though.

Conclusions
At this point, I do not foresee the story following developments that would permit Sanji to defeat Queen solo.


Summary
To summarise what I've said above:

• The sort of narrative arguments that predict Sanji soloing a Calamity have a terrible track record
• Oda seems to actually give a damn about powerscaling
• Sanji's powerscaling portrayal does not suggest that he can handle a Calamity
• I don't think there's a viable configuration of matchups on the Live Floor that would permit Sanji a solo battle vs a Calamity.

Good thread. Including X Drake, how would you rank the Tobi Roppo?

If you give thought to this arc as Zoro’s, it can be assumed that Sanji will not get an extensive fighting resume this arc, well at least nothing that would overshadow Zoros. It seems to me significant arcs and moments throughout post time skip have been relegated to show out the best of a strawhats capabilities.

For example, Chopper has been given several wonderful opportunities to show case his Medical knowledge, Nami given moments in weather manipulation and skirting past problems on the sea, Frankys abilities as a carpenter, Robins/Brooks duo abilities in espionage, so on and so forth.

This is all to say, in exchange for the showing of these skills at the master level, Oda has sacrificed their Combat prowess, which may be a good thing since no one really complains about specific strawhats, but comes at the detriment to an originally Strong Combatant like Sanji. That’s why throughout the entire post time skip Sanji has been looking, frankly disappointing and Zoro has been shining. And that’s why I believe a solo for Sanji is out of the question until Raftel. For now I believe he will triple team or duo a Calamity at best and at worst he will not fight and clash instead.

TLDR: Oda has been highlighting the areas of expertise for the strawhats. And where one excels in, they will be excluded from partaking in fights. Zoro and Luffy as particular exceptions.

 

[Peroroncino]

Sure, Zoro is going to fight a guy so similar to Shiliew before Shiliew

the perfect preparation

 

[LordVinsmoke]

Zoro has never said Oden's name.

Lol And?

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

Adv coc of zoro :cheers: candyboy please learn to read this simple manga for japanese kids
tatsumaki already cut kaido and no scar with enma :cheers:

So Zoro Can Scar Kaido With Fodder Kunia Sword And Basic Adv Coc :laughmoji:

 

[Finalbeta]

Lol And?

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

So Zoro Can Scar Kaido With Fodder Kunia Sword And Basic Adv Coc :laughmoji:

Enma is just an o wazamono, of the same grade as the other swords to be honest. Evidence also dictates how it's most likely nothing but a training tool and not supreme AP booster whilst wielded.

 

[Germa66]

Sanji is still stronger than Yamato, that’s all that matters.

 

[Peroroncino]

Sanji is still stronger than Yamato, that’s all that matters.

is he?

 

[Finalbeta]

is he?

 

[Germa66]

is he?

Obviously.

But if you want to wank a nigh featless last minute add on character because they could “one shot” a weakling, so be it, to each their own.

 

[Peroroncino]

I'm pretty sure Ace is stronger than sanji and Yamato was his equal

Post automatically merged: May 18, 2021

Obviously.

But if you want to wank a nigh featless last minute add on character because they could “one shot” a weakling, so be it, to each their own.

Featless? Has sanji ever fought anyone of ace's level?

 

[BangOO🍅]

@BangMi
Could you send me a PM?
I want to ask you something.

Ok