Character Discussion Monster Trio Nomore - Monster Duo & GOAT Duo

#24
This claim got destroyed with the recent spoilers.
It would've if I had claimed Zoro & Sanji aren't the right & left hand men. Sadly that's not what I claimed.


Despite the parallel my statement about :

Shanks = Luffy
Beckman = Sanji
Roux = Jinbei

If the crews were to battle, the showdowns would be:

Shanks vs Luffy
Beckman vs Zoro
Roux vs Sanji

With beat pirates:

Kaido vs Luffy
King vs Zoro
Queen vs Sanji


Why? Because even though Zoro is an anomaly he still is fullfilling the right hand man role, thus he would still be taking on the strongest underling of the captain.
 
#25
It would've if I had claimed Zoro & Sanji aren't the right & left hand men. Sadly that's not what I claimed.


Despite the parallel my statement about :

Shanks = Luffy
Beckman = Sanji
Roux = Jinbei

If the crews were to battle, the showdowns would be:

Shanks vs Luffy
Beckman vs Zoro
Roux vs Sanji
That´s not the issue, you claimed Zoro is the anomaly and he does not fit any structure.
Yet they are fighting guys right now who fit that structure right now.
 
#26
The M3 has nothing to do with them being close in strength - it's simply indicative of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji being the powerhouses of the crew. Even now, Sanji is still portrayed as one of the wings of the PK. People generally have two wings; it's clear that Robin was referring to Sanji and Zoro. Further backed by Jinbe, despite not being far from Sanji in strength, being resigned to fighting the F6 alongside the mid trio while Sanji fights a commander.

It's pretty clear, however, that there is a significant gap between Luffy/Zoro and the rest and this gap will seemingly only increase as Round 2 vs Kaido approaches. So yes Luffy and Zoro have their own portrayal together as the leaders of the next generation - this has been the case since the Worst Gen became a thing. Yes, Zoro is an anomaly in terms of strength and is much closer to his captain than one would expect from a pirate crew.

But a "Monster Duo" does not exist. The M3 is actually canon. Does it mean they're close in strength? No, but it's canon and separates them from the rest of the crew.
Robin pretty much said wingS tho...
 
#27
That´s not the issue, you claimed Zoro is the anomaly and he does not fit any structure.
Yet they are fighting guys right now who fit that structure right now.
Yes Zoro is an anomaly that doesn't exist in any other crew, which still stands.. nothing here is countering anything I've said as to why Zoro is an anomaly.

I said in the post you quoted bruhz that despite my powerlevel parallel statement about :

Shanks = Luffy
Beckman = Sanji
Roux = Jinbei

If the crews were to battle, the showdowns would be:

Shanks vs Luffy
Beckman vs Zoro
Roux vs Sanji

Why? Because Zoro is still at end of the day in the crew. Thus he would be taking on the strongest underling of the enemy leader, and Sanji taking on the 2nd strongest. Nothing I've said in the OT goes against that or tries to refute that. Because Zoro despite being an anomaly at end of the day is still in the crew as the right hand man.


Furthermore Beast Pirates do not have the same structure as the strawhat pirates. Their structure is akin to BM pirates. Where as Blackbeard pirates have a structure akin to WB pirates (bunch of commanders with equal authority). Hence I only compared Kidd pirates/Roger pirates/Red-hair pirates (partially), they have a similar crew structure.


All we're seeing right now is seeing the strongest underlings of Luffy taking on the strongest underlings of Kaido, which has nothing to do with crew structure.


If you want me to make it more simple. One can say that Luffy has 2 Rayleighs, except 1 of the Rayleigh (Zoro) has an ambition on par with Roger (Luffy).
 
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#28
Yes Zoro is an anomaly that doesn't exist in any other crew, which still stands.. nothing here is countering anything I've said as to why Zoro is an anomaly.

I said in the post you quoted bruhz that despite my powerlevel parallel statement about :

Shanks = Luffy
Beckman = Sanji
Roux = Jinbei

If the crews were to battle, the showdowns would be:

Shanks vs Luffy
Beckman vs Zoro
Roux vs Sanji

Why? Because Zoro is still at end of the day in the crew. Thus he would be taking on the strongest underling of the enemy leader, and Sanji taking on the 2nd strongest. Nothing I've said in the OT goes against that or tries to refute that. Because Zoro despite being an anomaly at end of the day is still in the crew as the right hand man.


Furthermore Beast Pirates do not have the same structure as the strawhat pirates. Their structure is akin to BM pirates. Where as Blackbeard pirates have a structure akin to WB pirates (bunch of commanders with equal authority). Hence I only compared Kidd pirates/Roger pirates/Red-hair pirates (partially), they have a similar crew structure.


All we're seeing right now is seeing the strongest underlings of Luffy taking on the strongest underlings of Kaido, which has nothing to do with crew structure.


If you want me to make it more simple. One can say that Luffy has 2 Rayleighs, except 1 of the Rayleigh (Zoro) has an ambition rivaling Roger (Luffy).
:seriously:

My dude, try to be honest. You are talking about duos and somehow justifying Oda breaking up the monster trio, and here we are having Zoro and Sanji duo taking care of the Beast Pirates duo of King and Queen. Yet the Jinbe Sanji duo has not been together once since Fishman Island.

Zoro does not have an ambition rivaling Roger, as Mihawk himself admitted. No matter what you think of the individual strength required to reach each goal (PK and WSS) the ambition itself does not rival Rogers. Also, you have no idea what ambition Rayleigh ever had or did not have.
Putting aside what i think of Jinbe´s strength (i see him comfortably in the YC range, low to mid), Oda did not decide to put Sanji and Jinbe together, but has decided to put the two wings Zoro and Sanji together. So yes, this destroys any point you are trying to make about duos and whatnot.
 
#29
:seriously:

My dude, try to be honest. You are talking about duos and somehow justifying Oda breaking up the monster trio, and here we are having Zoro and Sanji duo taking care of the Beast Pirates duo of King and Queen. Yet the Jinbe Sanji duo has not been together once since Fishman Island.

Zoro does not have an ambition rivaling Roger, as Mihawk himself admitted. No matter what you think of the individual strength required to reach each goal (PK and WSS) the ambition itself does not rival Rogers. Also, you have no idea what ambition Rayleigh ever had or did not have.
Putting aside what i think of Jinbe´s strength (i see him comfortably in the YC range, low to mid), Oda did not decide to put Sanji and Jinbe together, but has decided to put the two wings Zoro and Sanji together. So yes, this destroys any point you are trying to make about duos and whatnot.
And why would I not be honest about a discussion regarding cartoons? come on now bruh

Reread what I stated in the OT:
Oda is breaking up from the "M3" concept and focusing on the duos now.
The phrase "monster trio" is derived from a fan translation. But it was later adopted by the fans particularly at FMI where Oda highlighted the three being monstrous compared to everybody else and then caribou commenting on them. So there isn't a canon of "Monster Trio" that exists, it's a concept of Oda having three really strong dudes in the SH pirates compared to everybody else... before Jinbei joined. Which he is breaking up, why? Because Jinbei has now joined the crew, who is on par with the likes of Sanji and much stronger than the "mid trio" under them. Jinbei the dude that was with Luffy through Impel Down -> Marineford -> Post-MF arc, and even helped him realize about his crew when Luffy was breaking down, when his crew wasn't with him. Jinbei the mf that Luffy in the same arc that Oda had Sanji & Jinbei team up against 1 enemy, proceeded to be asked by Luffy to join the crew. But he delayed it.


Then when he does join the crew..


Oda highlighting the 4 individuals who stand above the others in strength by a great margin being at the front.. Jinbei being one of them.



Then in the race to reach the top or help Luffy reach the top..Oda had Jinbei & Sanji tag team, giving them a panel that was a straight up throwback to Luffy & Zoro's at Whiskey Peak:




- King & Queen aren't a duo, they are a trio. King-Queen-Jack, like they literally have a name for the 3-man grouping called "All-Stars". It's simply the strongest 2 Kaido's subordinates vs strongest 2 of Luffy's subordinates. Which doesn't go against anything I've said so far. I never said we won't be getting Sanji/Zoro teamups, why would we not?? They're the right hand & left hand man of Luffy. Like hell we're gonna likely be getting teamups of Jinbei & Luffy probably too similar to pre-TS when they was together. Hell we've had a Ussop & Zoro team up at Ennis Lobby.. You're simplifying the entire discussion by bringing it down to simply teamups.



Furthermore, the only duo that I'm dubbing here the "monster duo" is something that I'm speculating on, it's not like i'm telling you "aye mf believe this cause this is a fact". However, the "GOAT duo" a phrase I dubbed for the duo of the guy who wants to be the GOAT swordsman and the guy who'll be the GOAT pirate... is something that's actually canon long before the phrase "M3" came into existence. Them boys been established as a duo since their meeting to Dracule confrontation. Which only cemented it more when they fought a serious all out fight at Whiskey Peak and equaled in it.





Ambition:
- a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

You're equating goals to ambition. Big difference in the two. Zoro & Luffy's ambitions were portrayed on par when both of them inspired Sanji by nearly giving up their lives for their goals. One can have a smaller goal but still carry equal ambition to achieve it as somebody with a bigger goal.

Which is highlighted in their will to live, when both through two gruesome events where willpower would be the only way for their body to make it out alive... The pain taking by the hands of Kuma and the surgery for Luffy by the hands of Ivankov. In both situations where their chances to survive were next to nill.

Zoro's goal:

Zoro's ultimate goal is not simply beating Mihawk. Zoro's goal has three stages, just as Luffy's does.

1st stage (pre-Kuina promise) - Become the strongest swordsman in the world
2nd stage (Kuina's promise) - Become the strongest swordsman EVER
3rd stage (post Kuina's death) - Become a swordsman so great that his name is renowned even in the heavens

Mihawk is the 1st stage of his goal. His ambition does not stop at simply being stronger than Mihawk, unless Mihawk happens to be stronger than every single swordsman that has existed, which I don't think he is. Since in my humble opinion, the guy who held one of the 12 supreme blades called Ace, Gol D. Roger, is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk.

Just like Pirate King is not Luffy's actual goal, but a part of his goal. We do not know of Luffy's actual goal, as it was off-paneled and Oda cut off from it. Now when you're comparing just beating Mihawk to becoming PK, yes it's a goal inferior to Luffy's. However, when you're comparing Strongest Swordsman EVER or Name renowned even in the heavens, then no Mihawk's statement does not apply here.



Rayleigh's ambition:
I have no reason to assume he had a grand ambition of his own. He was lazying about on his boat when Roger met him. Then after the Roger pirates disbanded he went to lazying around, basically what he was doing before. His character is pretty simple as far as we can tell, he's dedicated to his captain just as Ben Beckman is to Shanks & Killer is to Kid. If you have evidence to the contrary then feel free to point it out.



But yea this is just my opinion, if you don't believe it, that's fine. But just pointing out the spoilers don't "destroy" my claim as they don't counter anything related to why I called Zoro an anomaly. Nor do they counter the concept of M3 breaking up by Oda now. Only way that gets countered is if Jinbei's power development stops or is not keeping up with the others.

Furthermore you and others keep mentioning that Sanji & Zoro being "wings" counters what I'm saying.. but how??? Did I say Zoro is not the right hand man?? Nope Did I say Sanji is not the left hand man?? Nope. This doesn't counter my powerlevel parrallel point of Sanji = Rayleigh, Jinbei = Gaban. Were Gaban & Rayleigh called Roger's wings? Nope, or Heat & Killer been called Kid's wings? Nope.. only Sanji & Zoro have been called Luffy's wings. It also doesn't counter there not being a M3 anymore, because Wings is talking about the role Sanji & Zoro have towards Luffy, not the powerranking of the crew, which is what the concept of "M3" is based on.

What I said was realistically it's more like Luffy has two right hand men aka two Rayleighs except 1 of those right hand men aka Rayleigh is on par with Luffy hence an anomaly. This "wings" thing only supports my point in that when you add on the fact Sanji's character literally fits the mold of Beckman/Rayleigh/Killer the intelligent right hand men supporting their captains. Which further gets supported when Oda decided to throw in Sanji coming to Luffy's save back at Saboady in parrallel to Bepo (Law's right hand man) & Killer (Kid's right hand man) coming in for their captains.


But yeaa mane, that's it for me on this topic. Please do share your opinions regarding what I said. :fransuper:
 
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#30
The M3 has nothing to do with them being close in strength - it's simply indicative of Luffy, Zoro and Sanji being the powerhouses of the crew. Even now, Sanji is still portrayed as one of the wings of the PK. People generally have two wings; it's clear that Robin was referring to Sanji and Zoro. Further backed by Jinbe, despite not being far from Sanji in strength, being resigned to fighting the F6 alongside the mid trio while Sanji fights a commander.

It's pretty clear, however, that there is a significant gap between Luffy/Zoro and the rest and this gap will seemingly only increase as Round 2 vs Kaido approaches. So yes Luffy and Zoro have their own portrayal together as the leaders of the next generation - this has been the case since the Worst Gen became a thing. Yes, Zoro is an anomaly in terms of strength and is much closer to his captain than one would expect from a pirate crew.

But a "Monster Duo" does not exist. The M3 is actually canon. Does it mean they're close in strength? No, but it's canon and separates them from the rest of the crew.
I'd argue that the point of the M3 is that even if Zoro is stronger than Sanji, he wouldn't be able to just utterly crush the latter... and even more, than most non-M3 characters just don't stand a chance. Like, Zoro and Sanji are two intercontinal missiles, albeit one is better than the other... but if you're just a gun, you don't play in the same league, if that makes sense !
 
#32
And why would I not be honest about a discussion regarding cartoons? come on now bruh

Reread what I stated in the OT:


The phrase "monster trio" is derived from a fan translation. But it was later adopted by the fans particularly at FMI where Oda highlighted the three being monstrous compared to everybody else and then caribou commenting on them. So there isn't a canon of "Monster Trio" that exists, it's a concept of Oda having three really strong dudes in the SH pirates compared to everybody else... before Jinbei joined. Which he is breaking up, why? Because Jinbei has now joined the crew, who is on par with the likes of Sanji and much stronger than the "mid trio" under them. Jinbei the dude that was with Luffy through Impel Down -> Marineford -> Post-MF arc, and even helped him realize about his crew when Luffy was breaking down, when his crew wasn't with him. Jinbei the mf that Luffy in the same arc that Oda had Sanji & Jinbei team up against 1 enemy, proceeded to be asked by Luffy to join the crew. But he delayed it.


Then when he does join the crew..


Oda highlighting the 4 individuals who stand above the others in strength by a great margin being at the front.. Jinbei being one of them.



Then in the race to reach the top or help Luffy reach the top..Oda had Jinbei & Sanji tag team, giving them a panel that was a straight up throwback to Luffy & Zoro's at Whiskey Peak:




- King & Queen aren't a duo, they are a trio. King-Queen-Jack, like they literally have a name for the 3-man grouping called "All-Stars". It's simply the strongest 2 Kaido's subordinates vs strongest 2 of Luffy's subordinates. Which doesn't go against anything I've said so far. I never said we won't be getting Sanji/Zoro teamups, why would we not?? They're the right hand & left hand man of Luffy. Like hell we're gonna likely be getting teamups of Jinbei & Luffy probably too similar to pre-TS when they was together. Hell we've had a Ussop & Zoro team up at Ennis Lobby.. You're simplifying the entire discussion by bringing it down to simply teamups.



Furthermore, the only duo that I'm dubbing here the "monster duo" is something that I'm speculating on, it's not like i'm telling you "aye mf believe this cause this is a fact". However, the "GOAT duo" a phrase I dubbed for the duo of the guy who wants to be the GOAT swordsman and the guy who'll be the GOAT pirate... is something that's actually canon long before the phrase "M3" came into existence. Them boys been established as a duo since their meeting to Dracule confrontation. Which only cemented it more when they fought a serious all out fight at Whiskey Peak and equaled in it.





Ambition:
- a strong desire to do or to achieve something, typically requiring determination and hard work.

You're equating goals to ambition. Big difference in the two. Zoro & Luffy's ambitions were portrayed on par when both of them inspired Sanji by nearly giving up their lives for their goals. One can have a smaller goal but still carry equal ambition to achieve it as somebody with a bigger goal.

Which is highlighted in their will to live, when both through two gruesome events where willpower would be the only way for their body to make it out alive... The pain taking by the hands of Kuma and the surgery for Luffy by the hands of Ivankov. In both situations where their chances to survive were next to nill.

Zoro's goal:

Zoro's ultimate goal is not simply beating Mihawk. Zoro's goal has three stages, just as Luffy's does.

1st stage (pre-Kuina promise) - Become the strongest swordsman in the world
2nd stage (Kuina's promise) - Become the strongest swordsman EVER
3rd stage (post Kuina's death) - Become a swordsman so great that his name is renowned even in the heavens

Mihawk is the 1st stage of his goal. His ambition does not stop at simply being stronger than Mihawk, unless Mihawk happens to be stronger than every single swordsman that has existed, which I don't think he is. Since in my humble opinion, the guy who held one of the 12 supreme blades called Ace, Gol D. Roger, is a stronger swordsman than Mihawk.

Just like Pirate King is not Luffy's actual goal, but a part of his goal. We do not know of Luffy's actual goal, as it was off-paneled and Oda cut off from it. Now when you're comparing just beating Mihawk to becoming PK, yes it's a goal inferior to Luffy's. However, when you're comparing Strongest Swordsman EVER or Name renowned even in the heavens, then no Mihawk's statement does not apply here.



Rayleigh's ambition:
I have no reason to assume he had a grand ambition of his own. He was lazying about on his boat when Roger met him. Then after the Roger pirates disbanded he went to lazying around, basically what he was doing before. His character is pretty simple as far as we can tell, he's dedicated to his captain just as Ben Beckman is to Shanks & Killer is to Kid. If you have evidence to the contrary then feel free to point it out.



But yea this is just my opinion, if you don't believe it, that's fine. But just pointing out the spoilers don't "destroy" my claim as they don't counter anything related to why I called Zoro an anomaly. Nor do they counter the concept of M3 breaking up by Oda now. Only way that gets countered is if Jinbei's power development stops or is not keeping up with the others.

Furthermore you and others keep mentioning that Sanji & Zoro being "wings" counters what I'm saying.. but how??? Did I say Zoro is not the right hand man?? Nope Did I say Sanji is not the left hand man?? Nope. This doesn't counter my powerlevel parrallel point of Sanji = Rayleigh, Jinbei = Gaban. Were Gaban & Rayleigh called Roger's wings? Nope, or Heat & Killer been called Kid's wings? Nope.. only Sanji & Zoro have been called Luffy's wings. It also doesn't counter there not being a M3 anymore, because Wings is talking about the role Sanji & Zoro have towards Luffy, not the powerranking of the crew, which is what the concept of "M3" is based on.

What I said was realistically it's more like Luffy has two right hand men aka two Rayleighs except 1 of those right hand men aka Rayleigh is on par with Luffy hence an anomaly. This "wings" thing only supports my point in that when you add on the fact Sanji's character literally fits the mold of Beckman/Rayleigh/Killer the intelligent right hand men supporting their captains. Which further gets supported when Oda decided to throw in Sanji coming to Luffy's save back at Saboady in parrallel to Bepo (Law's right hand man) & Killer (Kid's right hand man) coming in for their captains.


But yeaa mane, that's it for me on this topic. Please do share your opinions regarding what I said. :fransuper:
Don´t ask me why you are dishonest.

M3 is a canon term featured several times used in the manga actually (Nami in Thriller Bark, Usopp in Alabasta or Skypeia), including pre-TS. ask @Kishido about that, he has all the necessary sources. So this point is already, entirely false.
Enies Lobby also underlined this point, with anyone from Chopper to Nami to Franky, beating guys with the same Douriki, then you had a huge jump to Jabra and Kaku, and then again a huge jump to Lucci. And the term M3 underlined that the gap between Sanji and Zoro to Luffy was smaller than the gap between the three and the rest of the crew, they were the monsters literally.
And yes post-TS, i have argued for Jinbe before as well, since Jinbe was clearly stronger than post-TS Sanji and comparable to Luffy and Zoro until Sanji got the raid suit and is now playing in the commander spectrum as well, probably even higher than Jinbe. By how much, who knows, i estimate Jinbe to be around Y3C to Y2C. If Sanji beats Queen with a noticeable margin, he is in. And Zoro fighting the strongest subordinate that is comparable to the other subordinates is very much consistent with pre-TS.
Jinbe is not breaking it up, if anything, following the existing gaps, it´s Zoro, Sanji and Jinbe grouped together in the YC spectrum that Luffy transcended.

Group pics do not mean anything, there are endless counter examples for this in which Oda simply draws a scene that is cool, especially for fights. Oda literally had the three swordsmen in the arc, Brook, Zoro and Kin, draw a cool shot in PH and called them the musketeers.

Yep, Luffy and his three commanders, if anything that proves my point. Luffy in the front, his three commanders right behind him.

Yep conveniently leaving out that Luffy is in that pic as well.



To deduce anything from that is nonsense.


Wrong, Jack has been introduced as the small child who is getting bullied. If you gonna argue strictly with card theme, sure, it´s Jack Queen and King, but luckily we are not playing cards, but Oda is also telling a story. And that story had the grown-up rivals bullying their little brother Jack.
And this is once again emphasized by Jack fighting Inu somewhere else, and the two wings fighting their respective counterparts.
And since you like pics, and i have seen you in the spoiler thread, you should have seen the newest pic, which from your logic, should emphasize the Sanji Zoro duo.


Zoro and Luffy having a special relationship as unofficial Vice-Captain is nothing new, no argument, but it also never contradicted the M3 concept, see above. Just like Rayleigh being VC and having a special relationship, in Oda´s mind did not contradict the metal theme of Gold Silver Copper. It´s also unfair to talk about relationships in an arc in which Sanji had not even joined yet, just to clarify.


The next paragraphs are all conjecture, sorry.
Zoro´s only dream, which yes is synonymous with his ambition, is WSS, nothing else.
Here is a thread explained by a sword-stan who also speaks Japanese.
https://worstgen.alwaysdata.net/forum/threads/zoro-and-roger-the-true-nature-of-zoros-dream.2213/

Yes what you are saying is contradicted because you are claiming Zoro is an anomaly, he is not, because he is not equal to Luffy.
That´s what´s comes down to.
 
#34
There are different duo and trio relationships. Luffy-Zoro,Zoro-Sanji,Luffy-Jinbei,Luffy-Sanji, Jinbei-Sanji and Luffy-Zoro-Sanji are already established. I don’t think, for one, that Jinbei will have a special dynamic with Zoro, his bond with Sanji seems a lot more special. When Yamato joins, I expect him/her to have special duo dynamics with Luffy, Zoro and Jinbei and have an acquintance level relationship with Sanji for example.
 
#36
I'd argue that the point of the M3 is that even if Zoro is stronger than Sanji, he wouldn't be able to just utterly crush the latter... and even more, than most non-M3 characters just don't stand a chance. Like, Zoro and Sanji are two intercontinal missiles, albeit one is better than the other... but if you're just a gun, you don't play in the same league, if that makes sense !
Nah cos Luffy can utterly crush Sanji and they're both in the M3 - all it is is superior portrayal in relation to the rest of the crew, it doesn't mean that Luffy, Zoro and Sanji are anywhere near each other in terms of strength. And that's what we're seeing now - put Luffy or Zoro up against Kaido and it's a half-decent fight. Put Sanji up against Kaido and it's a roflstomp.
Post automatically merged:

Robin pretty much said wingS tho...
That's literally what I said...?
 
#37
This was a magnificent read.
The shabody part you talked aboit perfectly proves that zoro doesn't fit in the standard pirate crew hierarchy, when the vice captains jumped in to protect their captains, zoro was leadin the other half of the crew that opened the way for rayleigh and hachi.
Zoro has always been portrayed as equal to luffy, be it in will power or ambition, though zoro tends to occupy a superficial ranking under the captain.
Also thinking about the kuma incident, zoro stepped up to offer his life for his crew's survival, not only out of loyalty but also out of role value within the crew, he knocked sanji out, not because sanji can't handle kuma's punishment but because zoro knows how much value sanji has within the crew, the crew can't survive without luffy, sanji is a cock, the rest have their significant role to play, what does zoro provides? "Fighting" that's all he can do, luffy and sanji can easily fill that role.
the whisky peak and the stuff that happened in the way to it proves that, when he just sleeped while the crew were trying to survive a dangerous situation, but he protected the crew when they were sleeping telling the bounty hunters to let his friends rest cuz they're tired from the journey.
Zoro also is a hero a protector, it's in his swordsmanship, as his teacher said to him that the pinnacle of swordsmanship is not only to cut whatever one wants to cut but also to protect whatever one wants to protect, zoro doesn't protect the innocent out of kinship or to repay a favor he does it because of his priciples and ideals, he even said that he doesn't like fighting for personal motives like revenge. Unlike luffy who only helps people that gives him food or who developed a relationship with him.
Zoro always pushes luffy to be a better leader, he understands leadership better than anyone on the crew, thretening toleave the crewifluffy didn't take his role as a captain seriously, or saying that he better be the captain hadn't luffy us CoC as a minimum requirement,or telling luffy to get himself together at punk hazard and at the rooftop.
Zoro is just that special.
 
#38
This was a well thought out thread. I do think the monster trio is here to stay.

I think Zoro can be paired both with Luffy or he can be paired with Sanji in terms of strength. It all depends on where the plot needs him to be.

But Shanks and Kidd are both captains with red hair, CoC, and missing arms!

Rayleigh and Killer are both vice captains and blonde. How crazy!
 
#39
Monster Trio will always stay the same, dont just look at Attack Power. Even if Sanji couldn't attack opponent like zoro or luffy, he brings clutch moments.

If you consider their contributions as not just fighting and include net contribution, sanji will come up to the level of Luffy and Zoro. This will stay the same forever.
 
#40
If Monster Trio is intended as a power level dynamic rather than a simple Luffy - Zoro - Sanji nakama trio independently I doubt Sanji is currently as powerful as Yamato, but this doesn't mean their relationship will be troubled.
 
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