General & Others PK =/= Strongest in 1v1

[MD Zolo]

There are couple of points to be made regarding this:

1. Buggy's words do not hold much value.
2. Luffy doesn't look tough does he? But if his friends are cornered, then Luffy becomes a different monster altogether. It was said that if Roger's crew was put at risk, nothing could Roger. This means that Roger's best can only be expected when his crew is in danger. And guess what, we have never seen Roger's crew in REAL danger. So, we've never seen Roger's best. Against WB, Roger's best could never appear because WB (due to his good nature) doesn't pose any REAL danger for Roger's crew.
3. Roger's time didn't have the concept of Yonkou. If it did, Roger would surely have to surpass them. Meaning he would have to better than other pirates. Garp was the strongest marine at the time and Roger was able to deal with him.
4. If Xebec was alive, do you think Roger would be able to reach Laugh Tale? Answer is NO. Roger defeated Xebec, which allowed him a clear path to Laugh Tale.
5. If anybody else tried to reach Laugh Tale, would he/she be able to do it without defeating Roger and dealing with Garp? Again, the answer is No. Roger would've got in the way.

Summary: Whether Roger was the strongest in the moment he landed on Laugh Tale doesn't matter. He was the strongest at some point which gave him a clear path to Laugh Tale. You need to be the strongest at some point in your life to eradicate or defeat your enemies so that a clear path exists.

 

[MarineHQ]

The PK definitely doesn't have to be the strongest 1v1, but Luffy's definition of PK is to surpass both Admirals and Emperor's, so in Luffy's case, it does.

That's why I'm saying that Luffy Has to 1v1 Blackbeard and Sakazuki.

He's going to beat the strongest Yonkou which EOS will undeniably be Blackbeard, and the strongest Admiral of his generation.

With wins over these two he cements himself as the strongest individual, surpassing Roger in power and legacy.

 

[Garps tekkai]

The obstacles you have to overcome to get you there, where you are even able to find/go to Laugh Tale, will still make you the strongest tho and this is that PK lvl, everyone is talking about.
If you decide to go to that island ten years after you've gained the means to get there, you were still once that powerful, to get all those things you needed to get there in the first place > which is PK lvl, a notch above those you overcame during your journey, who are otherwise, the strongest guys in the world.

Just because Roger had an equal it doesn't discredit the notion that the PK title is heavily linked to a certain powerlvl.
Especially when said equal turns out to be the WSM afterwards, which directly even tells us, that there's a lvl of strength at which you are called the WSM.
All it means is that his rival was on the pinnacle of strength in that verse aswell and therefore on that PK/WSM tier aswell. As easy as that.

It's not like he drawed with VA Aokiji, and somewhere around those seas, there was a guy, named Primebeard, who would have been able to stomp him, but he luckily never had to encounter him and therefore became the PK at high high tier.

In order to become the Pirate King, Roger had to overcome the craziest obstacles, namely Garp, Sengoku, Rocks, even if a whole lot of luck was on his side, in order to finally get there.
Same way with Luffy. When he's finally able to set sail to Laugh tale, he will have overcome guys like Kaido and BM. How is it not strength related?
Do you need more than just that kinda lvl of strength? Yeah, no question, but you still end up having that kinda power tho.

Conclu:
PK lvl as the concept of a power lvl above the other top tiers, is still legit, cause the PK we know of, surpassed such guys and his rival held the title of WSM.

 

[nik87]

Luffy doesn't look tough does he? But if his friends are cornered, then Luffy becomes a different monster altogether. It was said that if Roger's crew was put at risk, nothing could Roger. This means that Roger's best can only be expected when his crew is in danger. And guess what, we have never seen Roger's crew in REAL danger. So, we've never seen Roger's best. Against WB, Roger's best could never appear because WB (due to his good nature) doesn't pose any REAL danger for Roger's crew.

The same applies to Whitebeard, who gets mad when his family is in danger.
We never saw WB's best against Roger for the same reason Roger wasnt at his best and unlike Roger, WB had the Gura Gura No Mi which he didnt use at all and couldnt use without putting the things he holds dear in danger in such situation.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Just as Luffy said, PK isn't someone who can conquer everything, it's about having all the freedom he needs to have. Yeah, clearly Roger never emerged victorious against WB and same applies to Big Mom though circumstances might be different. Roger was undoubtedly a Top Tier but that doesn't necessarily means he was the Strongest of all.

 

[Buggy D Clown]

It's not like he drawed with VA Aokiji, and somewhere around those seas, there was a guy, named Primebeard, who would have been able to stomp him, but he luckily never had to encounter him and therefore became the PK at high high tier.

If you decide to go to that island ten years after you've gained the means to get there, you were still once that powerful, to get all those things you needed to get there in the first place > which is PK lvl, a notch above those you overcame during your journey, who are otherwise, the strongest guys in the world.

I see what you are getting at but it doesn't really stand.
Potential PK not running into someone stronger while gaining the means to get to the last island is no different in the luck department than not running into someone stronger as you are setting off to the final island. If WB was BB-esque and he waited for Roger to gather everything and then confronted him as he was setting off to the final island, what then?

And that's not to even mention that not only did Roger get BM's poneglyth without besting her in strength, Luffy at his current "get one shotted by Kaido" strength level could potentally have already gathered all the requirements to get there. He has Robin. Fishman Island one got moved but Robin was right where it was. They got the one of BM.
They got the one of Zou and they would have gotten one of Wano if the situation was the same as during Roger's time.

 

[Garps tekkai]

Potential PK not running into someone stronger while gaining the means to get to the last island is no different in the luck department than not running into someone stronger as you are setting off to the final island. If WB was BB-esque and he waited for Roger to gather everything and then confronted him as he was setting off to the final island, what then?

But that's the point. The Pirate King we know off, which is the basis for said PK lvl, ran into all those heavy hitters, surpassed them and was equal to the WSM. If WB would have caught him on his way to laugh tale, it would have been a fight between "PK lvl/WSM Primebeard" and "declined in strength, former PK lvl" - Roger.
That certain lvl where you have surpassed all the other top tiers, is still a thing and PK lvl is a fitting name for it.
It basically boils down to semantics. But that lvl which is described by that term is there.

And that's not to even mention that not only did Roger get BM's poneglyth without besting her in strength, Luffy at his current "get one shotted by Kaido" strength level could potentally have already gathered all the requirements to get there. He has Robin. Fishman Island one got moved but Robin was right where it was. They got the one of BM.
They got the one of Zou and they would have gotten one of Wano if the situation was the same as during Roger's time.

But this theoretical PK Luffy is not the one who will end up as the Pirate king, just like the theoretical PK Roger, who is a high high tier, wasn't the PK.
The "in story" PK Luffy will aswell, have surpassed all those heavy hitters, which makes that power lvl concept again legit.

And for not besting everyone, there's the WSM title from WB that takes care of it tho.

Edit: Yo, after thinking about it for a moment, I got it now. Yeah, you're right. If you take the term PK titl&/lvl literal for the epitome of absolute strength, it's faulty, cause PK Roger for example was < than his own Prime and Primebeard.
Prime Roger, Primebeard as a lvl is more precise. @Buggy D Clown
But on a meta level, PK lvl was pretty much used as the description of those guys in their prime, if we are being honest or at least I thought of it that way.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

tbh it bothers me that Luffy has no real equals in his generation and everyone who should be his rival is actually leagues weaker than him, making his only real adversaries middle aged men.

Maybe cuz there's no an "after" in Luffy journey .

He will be the PK who triumphed in all history

 

[Master OF Haki]

I do think that Roger would be able to defeat Big Mom, Shanks, BB, Shiki in 1v1 but he wouldn't be able to defeat Wb, Kaido, Rocks, Garp which even though dosen't make him the strongest but surly makes one of them.

Being the strongest pirate was never a must have quality to become the Pirate King. There is a reason why WB was never named a king despite the fact that his superiority was indisputable. I used to tell people that Roger became the PK because he was the first to reach the final Island. A lot of people, especially Luffy fans, denied it saying that you must beat/be stronger than all big names and the admirals to conquer the world.

Yes, Roger didn’t defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals and he wasn’t the strongest character in one piece he was only one of the strongest but becoming the Pirate King in Roger’s time was deferent then now, also becoming Pirate King Is deferent for Roger and Luffy for example; Roger didn’t have the time nor the need to defeat the Yonko and Admirals also for Luffy Pirate King means BE THE FREAST MAN ON THE PLANET which means that Luffy needs to become the strongest in the world in order to be free from everyone and everything. People who said that Luffy needs to defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals weren’t wrong you can’t deny the fact that there is a strong emphasis on Luffy becoming the strongest character at the end of the series by becoming the Pirate King and even BB Luffy’s rival for Pirate King throne wants to become the strongest in the world and even thinks that he already is.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

I do think that Roger would be able to defeat Big Mom, Shanks, BB, Shiki in 1v1 but he wouldn't be able to defeat Wb, Kaido, Rocks, Garp which even though dosen't make him the strongest but shourly

Yes, Roger didn’t defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals and he wasn’t the strongest character in one piece he was only one of the strongest but becoming the Pirate King in Roger’s time was deferent then now, also becoming Pirate King Is deferent for Roger and Luffy for example; Roger didn’t have the time nor the need to defeat the Yonko and Admirals also for Luffy Pirate King means BE THE FREAST MAN ON THE PLANET which means that Luffy needs to become the strongest in the world in order to be free from everyone and everything. People who said that Luffy needs to defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals weren’t wrong you can’t deny the fact that there is a strong emphasis on Luffy becoming the strongest character at the end of the series by becoming the Pirate King and even BB Luffy’s rival for Pirate King throne wants to become the strongest in the world and even thinks that he already is.

I just remember....Luffy only lifts 3 fingers when mentions the Yonkos.

 

[HA001]

I just remember....Luffy only lifts 3 fingers when mentions the Yonkos.

Cause shanks will die to bb.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

I do think that Roger would be able to defeat Big Mom, Shanks, BB, Shiki in 1v1 but he wouldn't be able to defeat Wb, Kaido, Rocks, Garp which even though dosen't make him the strongest but shourly

Yes, Roger didn’t defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals and he wasn’t the strongest character in one piece he was only one of the strongest but becoming the Pirate King in Roger’s time was deferent then now, also becoming Pirate King Is deferent for Roger and Luffy for example; Roger didn’t have the time nor the need to defeat the Yonko and Admirals also for Luffy Pirate King means BE THE FREAST MAN ON THE PLANET which means that Luffy needs to become the strongest in the world in order to be free from everyone and everything. People who said that Luffy needs to defeat all the Yonkos and Admirals weren’t wrong you can’t deny the fact that there is a strong emphasis on Luffy becoming the strongest character at the end of the series by becoming the Pirate King and even BB Luffy’s rival for Pirate King throne wants to become the strongest in the world and even thinks that he already is.

Still,

Roger had an equal when he was named the King.

WB was never called the king when his supremacy over others was unquestionable.

BM thought she can beat all the Yonko with Elbaf on her side and take the throne for herself when she's weaker than both Kaido as well as WB.


I did not say Luffy won't be the strongest. I simply said, you don't have to be the strongest to be the Pirate King. There is a difference.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Still,

Roger had an equal when he was named the King.

WB was never called the king when his supremacy over others was unquestionable.

BM thought she can beat all the Yonko with Elbaf on her side and take the throne for herself when she's weaker than both Kaido as well as WB.

Well I agree on that part but I don't agree with the part that People who said that Luffy needs to defeat all the Yonko and Admirals in order to become Pairet King were wrong since it is said in one piece that you need to defeat all of them in order to become the king and yes you can become the Pirate king by defeating them through deferent ways but would it mean that that Pairet king is the true Pirate King? I don't think so and I even don't think that Roger was the true Pirate king since king means that you can command those who beneath you and be the true King of Pirates which Roger couldn't do.

 

[Bil02]

Nope no need to be strongest in 1vs1 to be pk.
Mihawk in marineford said about luffy that it isn't luffy's powers or techniques which are incredible but the ability to turn his surroundings into allies and that the ability was the most dangerous in these seas.
Of course you need to be strong to be able to face the obstacles on your path(and luffy will probably end up being strongest in verse) but it was never stated you need to be strongest in 1vs1,if that was the case,then roger became massively stronger after becoming pk since he was being matched by wb and even garp before.
Even big mom said with the help of the giants,she would have been pk already and we know the giants are not going to make big mom stronger in 1vs1..
My take is everybody in the current yonkou (maybe not bb)are at a level strengthwise to be pirate king already.
No need to be 1vs1 champion to be pk.

 

[Shanks]

It wasn't really established that Roger was superior to WB in combat ability.

Sengoku said Xebec was the greatest enemy of Roger and it wasn't WB or Shiki. While second thing is i don't believe Roger was in his prime when he fought against prime WB (in recent chapter) that's because he was sickened even at that duel but that fight ends in draw.

Though its undeniable that "PK" Roger and WB were on equal footing like portrayed in manga since the beginning.

 

[Master OF Haki]

Nope no need to be strongest in 1vs1 to be pk.
Mihawk in marineford about luffy that it isn't luffy's powers or techniques which arr incredible but the ability to turn his surroundings into allies and that the ability was the most dangerous in these seas.
Of course you need to be strong to be able to face the obstacles on your path(and luffy will probably end being strongest in verse) but it was never stated you need to be strongest in 1vs1,if that was the case,then roger became massively stronger after becoming pk.
Even big mom said with the help of the giants,she would have been pk already and we know the giants are not going to make big mom stronger in 1vs1..
My take is everybody in the current yonkou (maybe not bb)are at a level strengthwise to be pirate king already
No need to be 1vs1 champion to be pk.

You don't need to be the strongest in 1v1 in order to become the fake/wrong Pairet King in the same way how you don't need to be Part of Kozouki family in order to be the Shgoun but if you wanna become the true Pirate King then yes you should be the strongest in 1v1.

 

[Bil02]

You don't need to be the strongest in 1v1 in order to become the fake/wrong Pairet King in the same way how you don't need to be Part of Kozouki family in order to be the Shgoun but if you wanna become the true Pirate King then yes you should be the strongest in 1v1.

What is the true pk lol?
So roger was fake pk?
You need to tell me how there is true and fake pk when roger himself is the first one to be named pk thus creating the concept.
Roger himself is the definition of pk not what luffy will become.

 

[Shanks]

Whether at his strongest Roger was stronger than everyone else is not really the point of discussion, it's more so about Roger as he got to/was approaching the final island where he was clearly not at his best/strongest.

My bad, didn't saw your quote at first.

I agree. He really wasn't in his prime when he reached Raftel. That's same against the time he fought with WB too.

Also PK doesn't need to be the strongest. Akainu could also become same. He has the best force in the verse. But one vs one, he's below Kaido. Though can't imagine seeing Akainu with that laughter fit on Raftel.

 

[Master OF Haki]

What is the true pk lol?
So roger was fake pk?
You need to tell me how there is true and fake pk when roger himself is the first one to be named pk thus creating the concept.
Roger himself is the definition of pk not what luffy will become.

Well you said it yourself Roger didn't coll himself the Pirate king but People did. Roger didn't have any authority over all pirates, being colld a king whiteout having any authority over others is the same as colling samone the WSS despite him not being able to defeat anyone in a sword fight which has no sense. Boggy became part of Shichibukai system because WG thinks he's strong but if they knew he isn't strong he wouldn't become a Shichibukai in fist place. Roger never defeated all the Yonkos or Admirals he only finded the lost island and people started to coll him in deferent ways like "the conqueror of the seas" but the one that stack with him was the Pairet king, people started to coll him in that way because they thought he was the strongest but if they new that he wasn't I don't think they would coll him a King anymore and yes Roger was the greatest Pairet that ever lived in one piece but he wasn't the true King it was just one of his names that stack with him.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

My bad, didn't saw your quote at first.

I agree. He really wasn't in his prime when he reached Raftel. That's same against the time he fought with WB too.

Also PK doesn't need to be the strongest. Akainu could also become same. He has the best force in the verse. But one vs one, he's below Kaido. Though can't imagine seeing Akainu with that laughter fit on Raftel.

Remember that the "laughing " is conditional .

Rayleigh said to Robin that they migth interpret it differently once they arrive.