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Is Bleach Better than Kingdom?

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    174
Guan Yu

Guan Yu

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#501
#501
Jorden625 said:
I like that something similar to Bayou almost happened. If you remember, after Ouki broke Houken's weapon in Bayou, he did that same backwards thrust. This time, however, it was dodged by shin, and any outside interference was dealt with before it became a problem. I don't know if this is an intentional parallel, but it's interesting.

As far as Houken's death goes, I'm okay with it. I was never that interested in Houken to begin with.
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Imo, it's Hara ways to show us if it's not for the arrow, this is exactly what would happen between Ouki vs Houken.
 
Patryipe

Patryipe

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#510
#510
WTF is that flashback? God almighty, Hara stop with this nonsense, dude is dead, let's forget about him ROTFL.

Riboku seems to be running away. I guess the fight at the Shukai plains is over.
 
Shanks

Shanks

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#512
#512
Summary thanks to Jeeswag from the kingdom community :

Flashback:
There are two people who came to a village to heal the injured townsfolk. It turned out to be Houken's parents and as they are finishing up healing everyone a Bushin comes into that town to take Houken. (The mom utters "Ken...Ken..." so it's assumed Houken was the name he had at birth)

Center:
Once Houken falls everyone starts celebrating saying things like "Finally...finally...our captain Shin took down Houken who General Ouki and Duke Hyou couldn't even do!" News of Houken being defeated would spread through the battle at a fast pace. Even Ousen's HQ got news of it.

Riboku HQ:
Riboku thinks to himself "I have witnessed your final moments Houken..." The soldiers tell Riboku to retreat while Kaine tries to understand what this fight meant, asking if Houken was someone who fought to save humanity but lost here does it mean salvation didn't exist for humanity to begin with. Riboku says this means Houken's path to saving humanity was wrong, but there is another way to save humanity from battle. Unification. But Riboku says this time it will be the Zhao who rejects the answer. They couldn't wipe out Ousen here but he says the conditions are still okay enough for them to go to Gyou to save them and orders his army to head towards Gyou.

Qin side:
Akakin says it's time to stop celebrating and get Riboku. But in this moment where it would be the easiest situation for the HSU to chase Riboku something was going to happen. The HSU tells Shin that he doesn't have to fight anymore and just follow them on a horse. However, it turned out that Shin was unconscious. Everyone starts to realize something's wrong with Shin and Kyoukai says that he's been unconscious for awhile now, that the fire of his life has been out since awhile ago.

No mention of a break in the manga but there will be one according to other sources.
 
Jorden625

Jorden625

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#513
#513
Ok yeah so he's just unconscious, I figured that's what would have happened. I don't understand why Kyoukai finds this cry worthy though. I'm just glad that this battle is essentially over.
 
Shanks

Shanks

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#514
#514
Jorden625 said:
Ok yeah so he's just unconscious, I figured that's what would have happened. I don't understand why Kyoukai finds this cry worthy though. I'm just glad that this battle is essentially over.
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I think it's far from over coz now Riboku is planning to move toward Gyou.

KyouKai is crying coz she and even Ten thinks Shin's fire is gone (life force).

Qin is so lucky to have his key commanders getting in coma only..... :kappa:
 
Owl Ki

Owl Ki

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#516
#516
ShinmenTakezo said:
I see poor attempt of giving houken any kind of emotional context
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I disagree. On the contrary it makes Houken’s character even more tragic than it already is.

I already made a post on the tragedy of Houken’s character before this flashback reveal.
Owl Ki said:
So we have a man who dedicated his entire life to an ideal, an ideal that was designed to save everyone by holding personal attachments to no one.

Time and time again his belief in that ideology is tested by individuals who hold an ideology that is the antithesis of everything that Houken believes in. Individuals that according to Houken’s ideology should be inherently beneath him yet they always injure or outright nearly kill him.

So he seeks the answer to why this is and unfortunately for him, this is the answer.
Is it any wonder Kaine sheds a tear for this man? :catsweat:

Houken is currently still clinging to his ideology and why would he not? The idea that everything that one dedicated their heart, soul and entire life to was wrong, was a mistake, was a lie, must be the most bitter pill in existence to swallow and that is exactly what Houken is coming face to face with.

After seeing that pained face of sheer anger and pure frustration, I am wondering whether he is trying to convince Shin or himself. :josad:
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This flashback merely further explains why Houken zealously believes in the path of the Bushin and vehemently rejects any other beliefs thus the flashback itself does not need to be long as it gets to the point quickly.

Houken was brainwashed and trained in the Bushin way. If Houken was to ever reject the Bushin way then he would need to admit that his entire life and ideology was a lie and all his past accomplishments were all meaningless.

Houken is now among the most tragic antagonists in this series along with Earl Shi, Mangoku and Gokei.
 
Owl Ki

Owl Ki

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#518
#518
Hiragaro said:
Fighting for some Friends >>>> Fighting for Humanity :kaidowhat:
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The way I see it is because Houken has no actual attachment towards those who he believes it his duty to assist (i.e. humanity).

To Houken, his belief in his cause is one of duty towards that which he holds no personal attachment to. He strives to become an example of the pinnacle that humanity can achieve and overcome but in doing so believes all those he comes across are naturally inferior to him. To put it simply, Houken is committed to humanity but is apathetic towards actual people. His drive and source of power comes solely from himself. He does not believe in the concept of inheritance of wills which is a big theme within Kingdom.

To someone like Ouki, his belief in his cause is one of dreams and desire. Ouki strived to achieve that which as far as history was concerned at the time, was unachievable. In seeking out to achieve the impossible he came across like minded individuals who he formed personal attachments with (e.g. King Sho and the Qin Six), lead those who came to follow his beliefs (e.g. Tou and the Ouki Army Commanders) and inspire the next generation (e.g. Shin, who also believes in the inheritance of wills).

Both Ouki and Shin care for the people that they know, whether they be individuals or the citizens of the nation they serve, rather than the broad concept of humanity in general. Their drive and source of power comes from both their own desire to achieve the goal of uniting China as well as the accumulation of all those they personally knew who have fallen while contributing to that goal.
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Hiragaro said:
Sure Shin is dead - yeah Hara, i completely believe that after the 10 tons worth of plot armor he had on in this fight.
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Well of course Shin is going to be alive, he is the main character regardless of whether plot armor is there or not. :rolaugh:
 
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