[FNZ] Salem of Lies Throne of Lies IV: A Halloween Special
- Thread starter Dragomir
- Start date
- Tags #larimo #long live queen kawaii fake queen kawaii handsome e-boy prince of mafia mastermind midnight is a beast midnight the chad poor fuji pretenders never win town leader midnight vote out flower vote zem
- Status
Krogothwolf ISO
I rest my case.
This is Kro's first relevant post. The context is me agreeing with T-Pein that Ryu Kishi's list of lynch targets is lazy. Kro's reaction does not make sense. The way he phrased it suggests that he believes I am stating that any lynch on Ultra is lazy, which is clearly not the case. Nor does the prior clause, me agreeing with T-Pein, suggest as much. Like I told Kro at the time, a list of lynches can be lazy, and each individual lynch have merit.
The important part here is Kro's accusatory tone. He's not actually interested in why I'm lynching Ultra - he could have read the thread for that. Rather, he appears to be using me voting for Ultra as if I am in contradiction with myself. Curious, today he says that he felt my reasoning for voting Ultra was lazy, and that he was merely attacking that - he never even acknowledges this reasoning, let alone addresses it.
This proves my previous assertion - my reasoning on Ultra is not the point of contention here for Kro.
Kro immediately tries to characterise my questioning his angle as "defensive". He doesn't establish why it is defensive, just that it is. He then dismisses what I was actually asking him - why his angle was to question my vote on Ultra as if me voting Ultra was in conflict with me thinking Ryu's lynch list was lazy. It was not in conflict with said idea.
Firstly, as an aside - these posts I'm quoting are the only game relevant posts in his ISO to this point. We're 1/4 of the way through it, meaning Kro has spent the rest of his time fluffposting. In any case, I had established why it was nonsensical - because me voting for Ultra was entirely independent of Ryu Kishi creating a lynch list containing consensus wagons, and attempting to establish a contradiction there is a questionable angle to approach this - the reason why these players were consensus wagons was because they had some reasoning underpinning them, after all. Ryu sheeping them doesn't suddenly become not lazy as a result.
That's... it for Day 1. No really. The rest of his contribution is to fluffpost.
Onto Day 2.
Kro immediately conveys a level of trust in Flower. This is a stance he will not prove to be consistent in.
Pretty rich of Kro to be saying this - as of this point, he has 12 posts, and this is his 5th that's remotely non-fluff. And out of the non-fluff, what has he actually done that adds value to the game? Nothing.
Another example of Kro, trusting Flower on her word. This is in response to Flower saying "I have reasons to believe he's scum". It sure would be nice to see this mindset actually be followed through.
Kro never made any post against Zoro's reasoning itself. He's merely interested in questioning Ekko buying said reasoning. Kro never establishes why it's a "meh reason", he just says it is. And for the record - it isn't. With a Knight flipped, it stands to reason that there would be some doubt on future Knight claims. By getting ahead of this, Zoro can at least mitigate this doubt partially. Because as scum, such a claim would attract attention that need not exist. It does not make Zoro Town, of course, but the logic behind Zoro claiming here holds up (though his choice of action does not).
Kro isn't even remotely concerned with addressing this to Zoro. He is rather more concerned with Ekko believing Zoro. It's a... curious mindset, to say the least.
Ah yes, easy trusting nature. Also Krogothwolf:
But Kro isn't easy to trust others. No siree.
This is the first flagrant example of Kro shading. Kro has, to this point, not interacted with Zoro once. Kro also doesn't address why Zoro's first port of defence would be to claim an already-flipped role as scum, as opposed to myriad other claims he could utilise. Why is it shading? Well Kro doesn't actually give his opinion on the matter. He just comes up with possibilities, simply to prevent Zoro from being taken off the table. This is behaviour you will see from Kro, time and time and time again this game.
Kro hasn't talked about any of these players in any sort of depth whatsoever. No seriously. All of his relevant posts to this point are right here. This is also the first time we actually see him take a position on Zoro - that he believes Zoro is lying.
Kro is delighted there is another viable lynch on the table! "yes, yes, tell me more!", he says.
And what conclusions or information did Kro get from "to see what would happen"? Your guess is as good as mine.
The position Kro takes here is "well if you have info, that's okay". Like many positions he takes this game, he will fail to be consistent in it for long.
And why is this? Who knows, Kro never tells us.
"seems questionable" - why? Plenty of players who have some experience with ToL have also confirmed that they expect duplicate roles, the guide says there is no limit to the amount of each role that can show up, so what exactly is gained through this line of reasoning? Ah, mislynch bait.
"no no, I need you as a viable lynch!"
Kro: "why are you being so trusting".
Also Kro: "the king is known town".
So for Kro, a 75% chance of being Town is good enough to be included there... but he's not being overly trusting? You can apply that statistic to just about anyone - town have the majority of the players, after all. This further establishes Kro being unable to remain consistent in his beliefs - he's too trusting for some players, and yet is quick to complain when other players are trusting others with stronger reasoning than anything he has given for the players he trusts implicitly.
Says Kro, who has blindly believed Flower's claim.
But generic probability that is around equal to anyone else and... Flower being Flower is not minimal reasoning, apparently.
"please doubt your confirmation of Kagura, please...!"
Now he claims my vote on Ultra was lazy. See how the argument has changed since Day 1?
Kro strawmans me pointing out that Kagura has both Ekko and myself vouching for her not being able to have made the kill. I also never actually said he was suspicious, but that didn't stop him. Kro, can you point me to where Flower and Tris were cleared? Seeing as you trust them. ...no? Unfortunate.
I nested the quotes here to prove my point. Kro talks about my Ultra vote, I say he hasn't been reading the thread (otherwise he would know why I had voted Ultra), and Kro brings up... Kagura? No seriously. This is the direct line of dialogue, you can verify this for yourselves.
He says, while continuing to ignore the obvious risk it would present itself to vouch for Kagura without actually being about to vouch for her.
Not sure why he'd admit to this, given it actually looks worse as a result.
>hey Kagura gave us veritable information, it can't be her
>maybe you're being played?
Sloppy. For the information to be veritable, it would have to be able to be verified. That's um... kinda what veritable means. Given that it has, we can safely rule out the possibility that Ekko and I are being played.
Noted how this is enough for Kro to trust Tris... I guess it's enough for Kro to trust any single player in the game then, because everyone else has similar or greater odds of being town.
Kro really doesn't want Kagura off the table lol.
For someone so invested in having others question claims, he's doing awfully little of it himself.
I hope it's a good claim!
Unsurprisingly, he failed to establish this as a position I had ever took within the thread.
The important part here is Kro's accusatory tone. He's not actually interested in why I'm lynching Ultra - he could have read the thread for that. Rather, he appears to be using me voting for Ultra as if I am in contradiction with myself. Curious, today he says that he felt my reasoning for voting Ultra was lazy, and that he was merely attacking that - he never even acknowledges this reasoning, let alone addresses it.
This proves my previous assertion - my reasoning on Ultra is not the point of contention here for Kro.
Kro immediately tries to characterise my questioning his angle as "defensive". He doesn't establish why it is defensive, just that it is. He then dismisses what I was actually asking him - why his angle was to question my vote on Ultra as if me voting Ultra was in conflict with me thinking Ryu's lynch list was lazy. It was not in conflict with said idea.
Firstly, as an aside - these posts I'm quoting are the only game relevant posts in his ISO to this point. We're 1/4 of the way through it, meaning Kro has spent the rest of his time fluffposting. In any case, I had established why it was nonsensical - because me voting for Ultra was entirely independent of Ryu Kishi creating a lynch list containing consensus wagons, and attempting to establish a contradiction there is a questionable angle to approach this - the reason why these players were consensus wagons was because they had some reasoning underpinning them, after all. Ryu sheeping them doesn't suddenly become not lazy as a result.
That's... it for Day 1. No really. The rest of his contribution is to fluffpost.
Onto Day 2.
Kro immediately conveys a level of trust in Flower. This is a stance he will not prove to be consistent in.
Pretty rich of Kro to be saying this - as of this point, he has 12 posts, and this is his 5th that's remotely non-fluff. And out of the non-fluff, what has he actually done that adds value to the game? Nothing.
Another example of Kro, trusting Flower on her word. This is in response to Flower saying "I have reasons to believe he's scum". It sure would be nice to see this mindset actually be followed through.
Kro never made any post against Zoro's reasoning itself. He's merely interested in questioning Ekko buying said reasoning. Kro never establishes why it's a "meh reason", he just says it is. And for the record - it isn't. With a Knight flipped, it stands to reason that there would be some doubt on future Knight claims. By getting ahead of this, Zoro can at least mitigate this doubt partially. Because as scum, such a claim would attract attention that need not exist. It does not make Zoro Town, of course, but the logic behind Zoro claiming here holds up (though his choice of action does not).
Kro isn't even remotely concerned with addressing this to Zoro. He is rather more concerned with Ekko believing Zoro. It's a... curious mindset, to say the least.
Ah yes, easy trusting nature. Also Krogothwolf:
But Kro isn't easy to trust others. No siree.
This is the first flagrant example of Kro shading. Kro has, to this point, not interacted with Zoro once. Kro also doesn't address why Zoro's first port of defence would be to claim an already-flipped role as scum, as opposed to myriad other claims he could utilise. Why is it shading? Well Kro doesn't actually give his opinion on the matter. He just comes up with possibilities, simply to prevent Zoro from being taken off the table. This is behaviour you will see from Kro, time and time and time again this game.
Kro hasn't talked about any of these players in any sort of depth whatsoever. No seriously. All of his relevant posts to this point are right here. This is also the first time we actually see him take a position on Zoro - that he believes Zoro is lying.
Kro is delighted there is another viable lynch on the table! "yes, yes, tell me more!", he says.
And what conclusions or information did Kro get from "to see what would happen"? Your guess is as good as mine.
The position Kro takes here is "well if you have info, that's okay". Like many positions he takes this game, he will fail to be consistent in it for long.
And why is this? Who knows, Kro never tells us.
"seems questionable" - why? Plenty of players who have some experience with ToL have also confirmed that they expect duplicate roles, the guide says there is no limit to the amount of each role that can show up, so what exactly is gained through this line of reasoning? Ah, mislynch bait.
"no no, I need you as a viable lynch!"
Kro: "why are you being so trusting".
Also Kro: "the king is known town".
So for Kro, a 75% chance of being Town is good enough to be included there... but he's not being overly trusting? You can apply that statistic to just about anyone - town have the majority of the players, after all. This further establishes Kro being unable to remain consistent in his beliefs - he's too trusting for some players, and yet is quick to complain when other players are trusting others with stronger reasoning than anything he has given for the players he trusts implicitly.
Says Kro, who has blindly believed Flower's claim.
But generic probability that is around equal to anyone else and... Flower being Flower is not minimal reasoning, apparently.
"please doubt your confirmation of Kagura, please...!"
Now he claims my vote on Ultra was lazy. See how the argument has changed since Day 1?
Kro strawmans me pointing out that Kagura has both Ekko and myself vouching for her not being able to have made the kill. I also never actually said he was suspicious, but that didn't stop him. Kro, can you point me to where Flower and Tris were cleared? Seeing as you trust them. ...no? Unfortunate.
I nested the quotes here to prove my point. Kro talks about my Ultra vote, I say he hasn't been reading the thread (otherwise he would know why I had voted Ultra), and Kro brings up... Kagura? No seriously. This is the direct line of dialogue, you can verify this for yourselves.
He says, while continuing to ignore the obvious risk it would present itself to vouch for Kagura without actually being about to vouch for her.
Not sure why he'd admit to this, given it actually looks worse as a result.
>hey Kagura gave us veritable information, it can't be her
>maybe you're being played?
Sloppy. For the information to be veritable, it would have to be able to be verified. That's um... kinda what veritable means. Given that it has, we can safely rule out the possibility that Ekko and I are being played.
Noted how this is enough for Kro to trust Tris... I guess it's enough for Kro to trust any single player in the game then, because everyone else has similar or greater odds of being town.
Kro really doesn't want Kagura off the table lol.
For someone so invested in having others question claims, he's doing awfully little of it himself.
I hope it's a good claim!
Unsurprisingly, he failed to establish this as a position I had ever took within the thread.
I rest my case.
Vote Lynch Krogothwolf
Midnight and Flower both claimed Princess. That's too many princesses in the pool.
Flower investigated Tuna and Tuna turned out to be offensive/killer class. He also claimed to be Knight - which is TPein too. Interesting.
For now I believe both Flower and Tuna's claim and Tuna's claim seemed genuine to me.
Moving on with my reading ~
Flower investigated Tuna and Tuna turned out to be offensive/killer class. He also claimed to be Knight - which is TPein too. Interesting.
For now I believe both Flower and Tuna's claim and Tuna's claim seemed genuine to me.
Moving on with my reading ~
Crystal Data Center is a North American one. I play on there because my housemates were on there, and some IRL friends joined that one too. Ping isn't too bad for me, either.
No, I've factored that in on some cases. The problem lies in that Kro hasn't actually held many positions of his own - and his standard of trusting players is not remotely consistent despite the majority of his on-topic content being to suggest we should be wary of trusting easily. It's not just relating to Kagura - Kro has made it his mission to discredit town reads on players wherever he can, and what I find most telling is how he argues with Ekko etc over them - not the players in question themselves.
If Kro is actually scum, scum lean on Flower too - there is no way Town Flower doesn't pick up on Kro flagrantly buddying up to her.
No, I've factored that in on some cases. The problem lies in that Kro hasn't actually held many positions of his own - and his standard of trusting players is not remotely consistent despite the majority of his on-topic content being to suggest we should be wary of trusting easily. It's not just relating to Kagura - Kro has made it his mission to discredit town reads on players wherever he can, and what I find most telling is how he argues with Ekko etc over them - not the players in question themselves.
If Kro is actually scum, scum lean on Flower too - there is no way Town Flower doesn't pick up on Kro flagrantly buddying up to her.
Okay @Zemmi I hope I am wrong but I could not just let this pass without addressing it.
I had a strong town read of you but please tell me is this not super convenient? Read it all please.
Everyone else I really ask you to read this thoroughly and give me your thoughts. it will be a long post against a strongly town read player so pls read it carefully. I do not intend to cause paranoia with it but I could not let this slip by without mentioning it properly.
Players -
1. @Ekkologix
2. @Flower
3. @Ratchet
4. @Fujishiro
5. @krogothwolf
6. @T-Pein™
7. @Sallucion
8. @Alibaba
9. @playa4321
10. @Enryu
11. @Midnight Delight
12. @Ryu Kishi
13. @Yo Tan Wa
14. @Kawaii
15. @Zemmi
16. @Kagura
17. @ConquistadoR
18. @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
19. @Ultra
20. @RippedCal
21. @Zolo
I have been asking Alibaba to claim since day 1, and I do it again here for like the 6th time. I asked him to claim a role or actions or anything, but he kept refusing and ignoring me all together. For an entire day and half. Like he was really set on not claiming, and lots of players were not helping me push him or consider him, including Zemmi.
Now few mins later here is the first time where you actually follow me on this Alibaba push. You never did help me consider him before. You were always ignoring him, and luckily I was paying extra attention to those ignoring him, and sadly you were on the top of the list...
But here... not only you follow me, but heck you even tagged him and honestly dropped such a generic fake post telling him to "claim or die" kind of joke-y approach. It Doesn't really give me the vibe that you are interested in his claim at all. It's like you already know it. And your reaction after he claimed tells me you are not surprised by it (I will get to that later), but I want to emphasis greatly on how you never bothered with him before, but now you suddenly act so interested to see his claim or he dies? weird.. let's continue..
Now this is the convenient part. Right after that post of yours and without any prior reason, just randomly before Alibaba even claims... here you set up the stage for him to enter with his short, meh, and incomplete neutral indie claim, that you guys of course discussed previously in your scum chat. And of course he leaves without even giving night targets. Could this just be a coincidence? yeah. Is it too convenient? absolutely. But what makes it even more scummy is that you strictly mentioned neutral indies. I would expect a more open minded town Zemmi to also mention good indies as well. It's like you knew for sure Alibaba was going to claim a neutral indie specifically so you wanted to make it easier for him to enter the thread.
But I am not done yet Zemmi..
Now look here I replied to your previous post that I think the game is all indies and that these 2 (Ratchet and Ali) give me strong indie vibes, and you seemed to very well like that idea and agree with it, however look at your reply:
In your reply to me u mentioned that you think we have a few (neutral?) indies, implying that you know there isn't many of them (maybe 1 or 2?) in the game. Meaning you are internally/subconsciously aware of the existence of a mafia/cult team going on around that you are of course a part of, which could result in the low number of indies reflected subconsciously in your thought process here. Of course this is only something you would know if you have some TMI. In this case if you are a part of a mafia/cult team you should be able to estimate that number of indies is low, and that the game is not full of indies as I mentioned, so you are able to correct my post confidently. Now lets move on to Alibaba..
Here literally within 6 minutes of our initial exchange and you tagging Alibaba, he comes to the thread and EASILY claims with NO resistance whatsoever. Not after all attempts of mine to get him to do so for 1 and half days, not after all attempts anyone else did try to make him claim; but instead he claims exactly after you tagged him out to do it for the FIRST time, and with NO resistance. I could not have not suspected this. Please try to understand where I am coming from. I think this claim is outright just fake and super convenient and both of you staged this in a mafia/cult chat. Not to mention this neutral indie DOES scan guilty HOWVER is the most town-lean indie from the neutral indies so town would be reluctant to lynch him. This would be a perfect claim to keep Alibaba alive even if he scans guilty, and I am not even done Zem. Look at the rest:
Here you continue setting up the stage for him by asking for his night targets and mentioning "You can't kill right?", just to give us uninformed townies the feeling of safety that this indie is not dangerous and we should keep him alive with no issues. Of course this is the most town-lean neutral indie after all so why should we lynch him? And to even make it even more convenient you sealed the deal with this post and moved on:
This here Zemmi was the point where I was like hold on, she did not just set him up perfectly AND tell us not to kill or lynch him did she? This was the final red flag I can give. From you suddenly following my Alibaba push, to making him claim a neutral indie easily, and finally to stopping us from killing him? I could not have let this go by. Sorry Zem, I can't help but scum read you after that one.
And to add more to the tinfoil:
Here literally within few minutes of that whole Alibaba thingy, finally comes Ratchet to rub in more salt on my wound, and to distract us more from the Alibaba lynch by voting a player that I find very tasty and would definitely love to jump in and help Ratchet on. He seems to be taking a damn good opportunity here to distract me from the Alibaba push without even commenting on it himself. Like man knows what I want and is definitely firing it up for me, but I am not gna be baited by this nonsense. Fuk you Ratchyy
I DO NOT BUY ANY OF THIS NONENSE!!!
ZEM - RATCHET - ALIBABA
I cannot believe you are doing this to me, I really hope I am wrong :((
I had a strong town read of you but please tell me is this not super convenient? Read it all please.
Everyone else I really ask you to read this thoroughly and give me your thoughts. it will be a long post against a strongly town read player so pls read it carefully. I do not intend to cause paranoia with it but I could not let this slip by without mentioning it properly.
Players -
1. @Ekkologix
2. @Flower
3. @Ratchet
4. @Fujishiro
5. @krogothwolf
6. @T-Pein™
7. @Sallucion
8. @Alibaba
9. @playa4321
10. @Enryu
11. @Midnight Delight
12. @Ryu Kishi
13. @Yo Tan Wa
14. @Kawaii
15. @Zemmi
16. @Kagura
17. @ConquistadoR
18. @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
19. @Ultra
20. @RippedCal
21. @Zolo
I have been asking Alibaba to claim since day 1, and I do it again here for like the 6th time. I asked him to claim a role or actions or anything, but he kept refusing and ignoring me all together. For an entire day and half. Like he was really set on not claiming, and lots of players were not helping me push him or consider him, including Zemmi.
Now few mins later here is the first time where you actually follow me on this Alibaba push. You never did help me consider him before. You were always ignoring him, and luckily I was paying extra attention to those ignoring him, and sadly you were on the top of the list...
But here... not only you follow me, but heck you even tagged him and honestly dropped such a generic fake post telling him to "claim or die" kind of joke-y approach. It Doesn't really give me the vibe that you are interested in his claim at all. It's like you already know it. And your reaction after he claimed tells me you are not surprised by it (I will get to that later), but I want to emphasis greatly on how you never bothered with him before, but now you suddenly act so interested to see his claim or he dies? weird.. let's continue..
Now this is the convenient part. Right after that post of yours and without any prior reason, just randomly before Alibaba even claims... here you set up the stage for him to enter with his short, meh, and incomplete neutral indie claim, that you guys of course discussed previously in your scum chat. And of course he leaves without even giving night targets. Could this just be a coincidence? yeah. Is it too convenient? absolutely. But what makes it even more scummy is that you strictly mentioned neutral indies. I would expect a more open minded town Zemmi to also mention good indies as well. It's like you knew for sure Alibaba was going to claim a neutral indie specifically so you wanted to make it easier for him to enter the thread.
But I am not done yet Zemmi..
Now look here I replied to your previous post that I think the game is all indies and that these 2 (Ratchet and Ali) give me strong indie vibes, and you seemed to very well like that idea and agree with it, however look at your reply:
In your reply to me u mentioned that you think we have a few (neutral?) indies, implying that you know there isn't many of them (maybe 1 or 2?) in the game. Meaning you are internally/subconsciously aware of the existence of a mafia/cult team going on around that you are of course a part of, which could result in the low number of indies reflected subconsciously in your thought process here. Of course this is only something you would know if you have some TMI. In this case if you are a part of a mafia/cult team you should be able to estimate that number of indies is low, and that the game is not full of indies as I mentioned, so you are able to correct my post confidently. Now lets move on to Alibaba..
Here literally within 6 minutes of our initial exchange and you tagging Alibaba, he comes to the thread and EASILY claims with NO resistance whatsoever. Not after all attempts of mine to get him to do so for 1 and half days, not after all attempts anyone else did try to make him claim; but instead he claims exactly after you tagged him out to do it for the FIRST time, and with NO resistance. I could not have not suspected this. Please try to understand where I am coming from. I think this claim is outright just fake and super convenient and both of you staged this in a mafia/cult chat. Not to mention this neutral indie DOES scan guilty HOWVER is the most town-lean indie from the neutral indies so town would be reluctant to lynch him. This would be a perfect claim to keep Alibaba alive even if he scans guilty, and I am not even done Zem. Look at the rest:
Here you continue setting up the stage for him by asking for his night targets and mentioning "You can't kill right?", just to give us uninformed townies the feeling of safety that this indie is not dangerous and we should keep him alive with no issues. Of course this is the most town-lean neutral indie after all so why should we lynch him? And to even make it even more convenient you sealed the deal with this post and moved on:
This here Zemmi was the point where I was like hold on, she did not just set him up perfectly AND tell us not to kill or lynch him did she? This was the final red flag I can give. From you suddenly following my Alibaba push, to making him claim a neutral indie easily, and finally to stopping us from killing him? I could not have let this go by. Sorry Zem, I can't help but scum read you after that one.
And to add more to the tinfoil:
Here literally within few minutes of that whole Alibaba thingy, finally comes Ratchet to rub in more salt on my wound, and to distract us more from the Alibaba lynch by voting a player that I find very tasty and would definitely love to jump in and help Ratchet on. He seems to be taking a damn good opportunity here to distract me from the Alibaba push without even commenting on it himself. Like man knows what I want and is definitely firing it up for me, but I am not gna be baited by this nonsense. Fuk you Ratchyy
I DO NOT BUY ANY OF THIS NONENSE!!!
ZEM - RATCHET - ALIBABA
I cannot believe you are doing this to me, I really hope I am wrong :((
@Ekkologix I voted Kro as I was catching up on the thread - I had around 15 or so pages to read. The timing there was entirely coincidental.
As for Zemmi, I am fairly confident in my town read of her. Zemmi does not like being scum. So it's important to profile her as such. There are certain posts she has made, over trusting players like Kagura for instance, that I have a very hard time seeing come from Scum!Zemmi. When you are reading those posts, it's important to read them from the perspective of her being town, too, to see if it fits. And I think it does.
I would not bet the game on my Zemmi read. But I'm pretty confident in it.
As for Zemmi, I am fairly confident in my town read of her. Zemmi does not like being scum. So it's important to profile her as such. There are certain posts she has made, over trusting players like Kagura for instance, that I have a very hard time seeing come from Scum!Zemmi. When you are reading those posts, it's important to read them from the perspective of her being town, too, to see if it fits. And I think it does.
I would not bet the game on my Zemmi read. But I'm pretty confident in it.
Okay @Zemmi I hope I am wrong but I could not just let this pass without addressing it.
I had a strong town read of you but please tell me is this not super convenient? Read it all please.
Everyone else I really ask you to read this thoroughly and give me your thoughts. it will be a long post against a strongly town read player so pls read it carefully. I do not intend to cause paranoia with it but I could not let this slip by without mentioning it properly.
Players -
1. @Ekkologix
2. @Flower
3. @Ratchet
4. @Fujishiro
5. @krogothwolf
6. @T-Pein™
7. @Sallucion
8. @Alibaba
9. @playa4321
10. @Enryu
11. @Midnight Delight
12. @Ryu Kishi
13. @Yo Tan Wa
14. @Kawaii
15. @Zemmi
16. @Kagura
17. @ConquistadoR
18. @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
19. @Ultra
20. @RippedCal
21. @Zolo
I have been asking Alibaba to claim since day 1, and I do it again here for like the 6th time. I asked him to claim a role or actions or anything, but he kept refusing and ignoring me all together. For an entire day and half. Like he was really set on not claiming, and lots of players were not helping me push him or consider him, including Zemmi.
Now few mins later here is the first time where you actually follow me on this Alibaba push. You never did help me consider him before. You were always ignoring him, and luckily I was paying extra attention to those ignoring him, and sadly you were on the top of the list...
But here... not only you follow me, but heck you even tagged him and honestly dropped such a generic fake post telling him to "claim or die" kind of joke-y approach. It Doesn't really give me the vibe that you are interested in his claim at all. It's like you already know it. And your reaction after he claimed tells me you are not surprised by it (I will get to that later), but I want to emphasis greatly on how you never bothered with him before, but now you suddenly act so interested to see his claim or he dies? weird.. let's continue..
Now this is the convenient part. Right after that post of yours and without any prior reason, just randomly before Alibaba even claims... here you set up the stage for him to enter with his short, meh, and incomplete neutral indie claim, that you guys of course discussed previously in your scum chat. And of course he leaves without even giving night targets. Could this just be a coincidence? yeah. Is it too convenient? absolutely. But what makes it even more scummy is that you strictly mentioned neutral indies. I would expect a more open minded town Zemmi to also mention good indies as well. It's like you knew for sure Alibaba was going to claim a neutral indie specifically so you wanted to make it easier for him to enter the thread.
But I am not done yet Zemmi..
Now look here I replied to your previous post that I think the game is all indies and that these 2 (Ratchet and Ali) give me strong indie vibes, and you seemed to very well like that idea and agree with it, however look at your reply:
In your reply to me u mentioned that you think we have a few (neutral?) indies, implying that you know there isn't many of them (maybe 1 or 2?) in the game. Meaning you are internally/subconsciously aware of the existence of a mafia/cult team going on around that you are of course a part of, which could result in the low number of indies reflected subconsciously in your thought process here. Of course this is only something you would know if you have some TMI. In this case if you are a part of a mafia/cult team you should be able to estimate that number of indies is low, and that the game is not full of indies as I mentioned, so you are able to correct my post confidently. Now lets move on to Alibaba..
Here literally within 6 minutes of our initial exchange and you tagging Alibaba, he comes to the thread and EASILY claims with NO resistance whatsoever. Not after all attempts of mine to get him to do so for 1 and half days, not after all attempts anyone else did try to make him claim; but instead he claims exactly after you tagged him out to do it for the FIRST time, and with NO resistance. I could not have not suspected this. Please try to understand where I am coming from. I think this claim is outright just fake and super convenient and both of you staged this in a mafia/cult chat. Not to mention this neutral indie DOES scan guilty HOWVER is the most town-lean indie from the neutral indies so town would be reluctant to lynch him. This would be a perfect claim to keep Alibaba alive even if he scans guilty, and I am not even done Zem. Look at the rest:
Here you continue setting up the stage for him by asking for his night targets and mentioning "You can't kill right?", just to give us uninformed townies the feeling of safety that this indie is not dangerous and we should keep him alive with no issues. Of course this is the most town-lean neutral indie after all so why should we lynch him? And to even make it even more convenient you sealed the deal with this post and moved on:
This here Zemmi was the point where I was like hold on, she did not just set him up perfectly AND tell us not to kill or lynch him did she? This was the final red flag I can give. From you suddenly following my Alibaba push, to making him claim a neutral indie easily, and finally to stopping us from killing him? I could not have let this go by. Sorry Zem, I can't help but scum read you after that one.
And to add more to the tinfoil:
Here literally within few minutes of that whole Alibaba thingy, finally comes Ratchet to rub in more salt on my wound, and to distract us more from the Alibaba lynch by voting a player that I find very tasty and would definitely love to jump in and help Ratchet on. He seems to be taking a damn good opportunity here to distract me from the Alibaba push without even commenting on it himself. Like man knows what I want and is definitely firing it up for me, but I am not gna be baited by this nonsense. Fuk you Ratchyy
I DO NOT BUY ANY OF THIS NONENSE!!!
ZEM - RATCHET - ALIBABA
I cannot believe you are doing this to me, I really hope I am wrong :((
I had a strong town read of you but please tell me is this not super convenient? Read it all please.
Everyone else I really ask you to read this thoroughly and give me your thoughts. it will be a long post against a strongly town read player so pls read it carefully. I do not intend to cause paranoia with it but I could not let this slip by without mentioning it properly.
Players -
1. @Ekkologix
2. @Flower
3. @Ratchet
4. @Fujishiro
5. @krogothwolf
6. @T-Pein™
7. @Sallucion
8. @Alibaba
9. @playa4321
10. @Enryu
11. @Midnight Delight
12. @Ryu Kishi
13. @Yo Tan Wa
14. @Kawaii
15. @Zemmi
16. @Kagura
17. @ConquistadoR
18. @ZoroSlaysDragonTuna
19. @Ultra
20. @RippedCal
21. @Zolo
I have been asking Alibaba to claim since day 1, and I do it again here for like the 6th time. I asked him to claim a role or actions or anything, but he kept refusing and ignoring me all together. For an entire day and half. Like he was really set on not claiming, and lots of players were not helping me push him or consider him, including Zemmi.
Now few mins later here is the first time where you actually follow me on this Alibaba push. You never did help me consider him before. You were always ignoring him, and luckily I was paying extra attention to those ignoring him, and sadly you were on the top of the list...
But here... not only you follow me, but heck you even tagged him and honestly dropped such a generic fake post telling him to "claim or die" kind of joke-y approach. It Doesn't really give me the vibe that you are interested in his claim at all. It's like you already know it. And your reaction after he claimed tells me you are not surprised by it (I will get to that later), but I want to emphasis greatly on how you never bothered with him before, but now you suddenly act so interested to see his claim or he dies? weird.. let's continue..
Now this is the convenient part. Right after that post of yours and without any prior reason, just randomly before Alibaba even claims... here you set up the stage for him to enter with his short, meh, and incomplete neutral indie claim, that you guys of course discussed previously in your scum chat. And of course he leaves without even giving night targets. Could this just be a coincidence? yeah. Is it too convenient? absolutely. But what makes it even more scummy is that you strictly mentioned neutral indies. I would expect a more open minded town Zemmi to also mention good indies as well. It's like you knew for sure Alibaba was going to claim a neutral indie specifically so you wanted to make it easier for him to enter the thread.
But I am not done yet Zemmi..
Now look here I replied to your previous post that I think the game is all indies and that these 2 (Ratchet and Ali) give me strong indie vibes, and you seemed to very well like that idea and agree with it, however look at your reply:
In your reply to me u mentioned that you think we have a few (neutral?) indies, implying that you know there isn't many of them (maybe 1 or 2?) in the game. Meaning you are internally/subconsciously aware of the existence of a mafia/cult team going on around that you are of course a part of, which could result in the low number of indies reflected subconsciously in your thought process here. Of course this is only something you would know if you have some TMI. In this case if you are a part of a mafia/cult team you should be able to estimate that number of indies is low, and that the game is not full of indies as I mentioned, so you are able to correct my post confidently. Now lets move on to Alibaba..
Here literally within 6 minutes of our initial exchange and you tagging Alibaba, he comes to the thread and EASILY claims with NO resistance whatsoever. Not after all attempts of mine to get him to do so for 1 and half days, not after all attempts anyone else did try to make him claim; but instead he claims exactly after you tagged him out to do it for the FIRST time, and with NO resistance. I could not have not suspected this. Please try to understand where I am coming from. I think this claim is outright just fake and super convenient and both of you staged this in a mafia/cult chat. Not to mention this neutral indie DOES scan guilty HOWVER is the most town-lean indie from the neutral indies so town would be reluctant to lynch him. This would be a perfect claim to keep Alibaba alive even if he scans guilty, and I am not even done Zem. Look at the rest:
Here you continue setting up the stage for him by asking for his night targets and mentioning "You can't kill right?", just to give us uninformed townies the feeling of safety that this indie is not dangerous and we should keep him alive with no issues. Of course this is the most town-lean neutral indie after all so why should we lynch him? And to even make it even more convenient you sealed the deal with this post and moved on:
This here Zemmi was the point where I was like hold on, she did not just set him up perfectly AND tell us not to kill or lynch him did she? This was the final red flag I can give. From you suddenly following my Alibaba push, to making him claim a neutral indie easily, and finally to stopping us from killing him? I could not have let this go by. Sorry Zem, I can't help but scum read you after that one.
And to add more to the tinfoil:
Here literally within few minutes of that whole Alibaba thingy, finally comes Ratchet to rub in more salt on my wound, and to distract us more from the Alibaba lynch by voting a player that I find very tasty and would definitely love to jump in and help Ratchet on. He seems to be taking a damn good opportunity here to distract me from the Alibaba push without even commenting on it himself. Like man knows what I want and is definitely firing it up for me, but I am not gna be baited by this nonsense. Fuk you Ratchyy
I DO NOT BUY ANY OF THIS NONENSE!!!
ZEM - RATCHET - ALIBABA
I cannot believe you are doing this to me, I really hope I am wrong :((
- Status