Why you lynching ultra then?
This is Kro's first relevant post. The context is me agreeing with T-Pein that Ryu Kishi's list of lynch targets is lazy. Kro's reaction does not make sense. The way he phrased it suggests that he believes I am stating that
any lynch on Ultra is lazy, which is clearly not the case. Nor does the prior clause, me agreeing with T-Pein, suggest as much. Like I told Kro at the time, a list of lynches can be lazy, and each individual lynch have merit.
The important part here is Kro's accusatory tone. He's not actually interested in why I'm lynching Ultra - he could have read the thread for that. Rather, he appears to be using me voting for Ultra as if I am in contradiction with myself. Curious, today he says that he felt my reasoning for voting Ultra was lazy, and that he was merely attacking that - he
never even acknowledges this reasoning, let alone addresses it.
Nope, thats why I asked why you were lynching ultra when saying that. Lazy list is lazy sure but you're also lynching a person on said lazy list, its 38 pages I aint reading all the way back.
This proves my previous assertion - my reasoning on Ultra is not the point of contention here for Kro.
Why you are you being defensive on it though? It seems weird to point out someone as to being lazy instead of asking for a reason, and you're lynching one of them so I wanted to know why. Couldn't you answer that instead of going on this spiel about me asking a question?
Kro immediately tries to characterise my questioning his angle as "defensive". He doesn't establish
why it is defensive, just that it is. He then dismisses what I was actually asking him - why his angle was to question my vote on Ultra as if me voting Ultra was in conflict with me thinking Ryu's lynch list was lazy. It was not in conflict with said idea.
And yet you haven't explained why, still going on your spiel about how somehow me pointing something is apparently nonsensical even though you haven't given me a reason to make it nonsensical.
Firstly, as an aside - these posts I'm quoting are the
only game relevant posts in his ISO to this point. We're 1/4 of the way through it, meaning Kro has spent the rest of his time fluffposting. In any case, I had established why it was nonsensical - because me voting for Ultra was entirely independent of Ryu Kishi creating a lynch list containing consensus wagons, and attempting to establish a contradiction there is a questionable angle to approach this - the reason why these players were consensus wagons was because they had some reasoning underpinning them, after all. Ryu sheeping them doesn't suddenly become not lazy as a result.
That's... it for Day 1. No really. The rest of his contribution is to fluffpost.
Onto Day 2.
oooh flowers got some good shit going on here.
Kro immediately conveys a level of trust in Flower. This is a stance he will not prove to be consistent in.
Yeah but people generally have one post that adds some value or tries to, he's just saying you're doing absolutely nothing but filling things with dead air.
Pretty rich of Kro to be saying this - as of this point, he has 12 posts, and this is his 5th that's remotely non-fluff. And out of the non-fluff, what has he actually done that adds value to the game? Nothing.
Another example of Kro, trusting Flower on her word. This is in response to Flower saying "I have reasons to believe he's scum". It sure would be nice to see this mindset actually be followed through.
Really? you buy that reasoning? Thats a pretty meh reason.
Kro never made any post against Zoro's reasoning itself. He's merely interested in questioning Ekko buying said reasoning. Kro never establishes why it's a "meh reason", he just says it is. And for the record - it isn't. With a Knight flipped, it stands to reason that there would be some doubt on future Knight claims. By getting ahead of this, Zoro can at least mitigate this doubt partially. Because as scum, such a claim would attract attention that need not exist. It does not make Zoro Town, of course, but the logic behind Zoro claiming here holds up (though his choice of action does not).
How does that reasoning even sound genuine though? Like I don't get what you're seeing here that makes it seem genuine, first hes to busy to really do anything, but he'll do it when he's home, but gives a very meh reason when being pushed by one person?
Either you're way to trusting for people who claim or you're just plain crazy.
Kro isn't even remotely concerned with addressing this to Zoro. He is rather more concerned with Ekko believing Zoro. It's a... curious mindset, to say the least.
Oh look whos wanting to talk because I'm questioning his easy trusting nature so that makes me adding paranoia. Surprising.
Ah yes, easy trusting nature. Also Krogothwolf:
oooh flowers got some good shit going on here.
But Kro isn't easy to trust others. No siree.
Because its their best defense they have at the time? They're not sure on how to push back, theyre hoping doing this works well in their favour? There is a lot of reasons they could do it, but why trust someone so quickly because it "seems ballsy" or "hard to pull off" like you're just going "k, sure thing" without much to go on besides that. Why be so trusting?
This is the first flagrant example of Kro shading. Kro has, to this point, not interacted with Zoro
once. Kro also doesn't address why Zoro's first port of defence would be to claim an already-flipped role as scum, as opposed to myriad other claims he could utilise. Why is it shading? Well Kro doesn't actually give his opinion on the matter. He just comes up with possibilities, simply to prevent Zoro from being taken off the table. This is behaviour you will see from Kro, time and time and time again this game.
Because my activity comes and goes? I wasn't really around much for enryu, when I was around most of it was on alibaba, playa and midnight as far as I remember, came back and enryu was leading leach target. Whats more to say? Not sure how me not believe Tuna's claim and questioning on why your being so trusting is "adding paranoia". Seems like a weak reasoning to deflect the topic to someone else, who happens to be questioning your reasoning for that matter.
Kro hasn't talked about any of these players in any sort of depth whatsoever. No seriously. All of his relevant posts to this point are right here. This is also the first time we actually see him take a position on Zoro - that he believes Zoro is lying.
Yeah you;'re right. We need to get Kagura here to get some explaining to do as well then. Unless t-pein was targetted by others but yeah, that flies.
Kro is delighted there is another viable lynch on the table! "yes, yes, tell me more!", he says.
He was well over the threshold when I joined and figured to add on to see what would happen when he came up to the trial.
And what conclusions or information did Kro get from "to see what would happen"? Your guess is as good as mine.
How do we know that for sure, or do you have info? I mean you can keep quiet on it if so, but that at least explains why you're saying this.
The position Kro takes here is "well if you have info, that's okay". Like many positions he takes this game, he will fail to be consistent in it for long.
2 Knights and 2 Princesses? Yeahhh...something aint flying here.
@Flower you arent scum are you?
And why is this? Who knows, Kro never tells us.
I think it leads to questions on all 4...I mean 3(tpein be dead) really, there are enough classes and what not that have 21 people and 2 duplicate classes seems questionable.
@Midnight Delight Results?
"seems questionable" - why? Plenty of players who have some experience with ToL have also confirmed that they expect duplicate roles, the guide says there is no limit to the amount of each role that can show up, so what exactly is gained through this line of reasoning? Ah, mislynch bait.
How do you get confirmed for being jailed?
"no no, I need you as a viable lynch!"
Claimed Town Roles:
Princess - MD
Princess - Flower
Knight - Tuna
Known Town Roles:
Knight - dead
King - Kawaii
Prince - Guaranteed in game
6 townie roles known, 4 are dupes, go figure.
Kro: "why are you being so trusting".
Also Kro: "the king is known town".
Well, 75% chance to be town.
So for Kro, a 75% chance of being Town is good enough to be included there... but he's not being overly trusting? You can apply that statistic to just about anyone - town have the majority of the players, after all. This further establishes Kro being unable to remain consistent in his beliefs - he's too trusting for some players, and yet is quick to complain when other players are trusting others with stronger reasoning than anything he has given for the players he trusts implicitly.
Kagura must of claimed, and ekko seems to believe every claim right now.
Says Kro, who has blindly believed Flower's claim.
Untrustworthy, you're coming off as way to trusting to things with minimal information to confirm those things.
But generic probability that is around equal to anyone else and... Flower being Flower is
not minimal reasoning, apparently.
You're contributing more to the confusion though then not, with how you're reacting to certain things.
Here's the thing that doesnt makes sense to me.
Kagura claimed to you from the sounds of it
You're claiming they confirmed that claim to you(in someway)
Enyru is claiming to have redirected Kagura.
Which indicates the only way to confirm them is something you did
This means you're discounting that you could have been screwed with yourself to get the results they desired for you to receive.
You're being to trusting on this and not counting for shit going sideways on you.
"please doubt your confirmation of Kagura, please...!"
Lol, didn't like that I questions you on your lazy ultra vote? :p
Now he claims my vote on Ultra was lazy. See how the argument has changed since Day 1?
Ah I see, so not trusting two uncomfirmed people vouching for someone makes me suspicious? got it, we should trust everything people say in this game as fact.
Clearly, me questioning believe you makes me paranoid somehow and obvious suspicious.
Not you guys ignoring a Fact Fuji brought up, but its me pretending to be unaware people who aren't cleared are hard vouching for someone as you not liking my play, not the fact they I questioned you on things, its cause I don't believe you.
Gotchya, From now on ratchet I'll believe everything someone says in a game a of mafia/tol/tos regardless of whether anything backs up that hard vouching.
Its not like 2 scum have ever done this before and gotten away with it that should make me wary of people after all, no one would ever play like that right?
Kro strawmans me pointing out that Kagura has both Ekko and myself vouching for her not being able to have made the kill. I also never actually said he was suspicious, but that didn't stop him. Kro, can you point me to where Flower and Tris were cleared? Seeing as you trust them. ...no? Unfortunate.
Lol, didn't like that I questions you on your lazy ultra vote? :p
I take it you haven't been reading the thread, then? Don't worry Kro, I'll go over it all post-by-post tomorrow.
Of course of course, we'll just ignore the reason why people are suspicious of kagura, not just me.
That kagura was redirected to tpein and tpein died, but right, not reading the thread at all, gotchya.
I nested the quotes here to prove my point. Kro talks about my Ultra vote, I say he hasn't been reading the thread (otherwise he would know why I had voted Ultra), and Kro brings up... Kagura? No seriously. This is the direct line of dialogue, you can verify this for yourselves.
Not sure why you are ignoring the reasoning behind this, why are you pretending to be unaware of this?
He says, while continuing to ignore the obvious risk it would present itself to vouch for Kagura without actually being about to vouch for her.
Its not strawman, its me mocking your reasons.
No, again, I'm mocking you. I'm not actually arguing with you, I'm mocking your reason to be suspicious of me.
Not sure why he'd admit to this, given it actually looks worse as a result.
Or you're being played? Again, nothing you've posted makes anything trustworthy but we should take it as trustworth and we should believe you. Without presenting anything to say why or whays going on. You guys whispering doesn't prove anything, thats like RippedCal claiming he's clear because he was jailed. Its just lazy to expect people to believe you at face value then call out those who don't believe you.
I've thrown shade? on who? I've doubt Ekko because he's being to trustworthy, and you come in all gung ho to go at me cause I don't believe you guys on Kagura?
Nah, we should just ignore a theory becuase you and ekko say the players clean. Didn't realize mafia was this easy to play, two players say another player is clean we gotta believe em right away! Damn, guess I shouldn't question anything anymore.
>hey Kagura gave us veritable information, it can't be her
>maybe you're being played?
Sloppy. For the information to be veritable, it would have to be able to be verified. That's um... kinda what veritable means. Given that it has, we can safely rule out the possibility that Ekko and I are being played.
Noted how this is enough for Kro to trust Tris... I guess it's enough for Kro to trust any single player in the game then, because everyone else has similar or greater odds of being town.
It complete discounts that a player could be messed with to help players get their claim across/verified and made to believe it, simply expecting people to trust people at their word and them going after someone who doubts them is pretty funny though.
Kro really doesn't want Kagura off the table lol.
The Prince has no way to verify that at all though, there's no previous actions or anything to go off on, nothing to show why, just again trusting someone at their word.
Being jailed and claiming to the jailor what you are doesn't give you a free pass. Seriously what is with you and Ekko being so trusting on everything?
Also you know I have a reason to not trust you at your word at all, youve pulled shit like this before, I'm not saying your scum, I'm just saying I don't trust what you;re saying, either because you're lying, you were lied to and results were skewered or other things. Results can be messed with which could hinder how you verify things. 2 could be scum and get a townie on their side.
Knowing people have pulled this before and not trusting their world is generally how you play the game right, question things?
After all, game is called throne of lies.
For someone so invested in having others question claims, he's doing awfully little of it himself.
Go ahead, I don't really care. Want me to tell you who I am then so you know why I don't care?
I hope it's a good claim!
Nah you'd just ignore whatever I say anyways at this point since you think I should trust you instead of doubt something based on information that was in the thread at the time and things people said.
Unsurprisingly, he failed to establish this as a position I had ever took within the thread.