You assume Yamatos dream is just about going to sea and adventuring, from the little you saw her talking about it. But im telling you Oda has made preparations to take it up a level. He gave you Odens flashback to understand the character, and then gave you Yamato who desires to be free like him. Carrots "dream" was already fulfilled, not the moment she set foot on the ship but after she returned from her adventure which was Tottoland. Until you know Yamatos dream, youre early to draw conclusions
General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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We already know her dream. I have no desire to speculate or talk about what you personally think might or might not happen. I'm talking about the canon evidence so far. So follow your own advice and keep it until it happens or not and then reply to me. Arguing with your headcanon? No thanks.
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You are ignoring all my arguments until now.. Don't talk about who is ignoring who
Headcanon.
Carrot's view of adventure must have completely change between her departure and now. This assumption is based on all her journey so far. Plus Carrot desire to go on an adventure can be based on a "light" ground, it is not less legitimate. Keep that in mind. So the argument of comparison of the desires is wrong by essence.
Now, there are factual evidence showing that Carrot enjoyed her adventure more than just a routine journey. She has been impressed by her journey the same way a child is impressed by a roller coaster. The most logical assumption is therefore NOT that Carrot would want to go back, but the opposite, that Carrot would want to stay.
Nothing you can say can counter the logic of this assumption.
That's why the most logical assumption, right now, is not that Carrot will kindly go back to zou, but that Carrot will sneak AGAIN on the Sunny.
The message of One Piece is clear, once an adventure as begun, only something VERY strong like a strong duty (Vivi) can stop the adventurer.
And again,
Once a pirate, always a pirate.
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Headcanon.
Carrot's view of adventure must have completely change between her departure and now. This assumption is based on all her journey so far. Plus Carrot desire to go on an adventure can be based on a "light" ground, it is not less legitimate. Keep that in mind. So the argument of comparison of the desires is wrong by essence.
Now, there are factual evidence showing that Carrot enjoyed her adventure more than just a routine journey. She has been impressed by her journey the same way a child is impressed by a roller coaster. The most logical assumption is therefore NOT that Carrot would want to go back, but the opposite, that Carrot would want to stay.
Nothing you can say can counter the logic of this assumption.
That's why the most logical assumption, right now, is not that Carrot will kindly go back to zou, but that Carrot will sneak AGAIN on the Sunny.
The message of One Piece is clear, once an adventure as begun, only something VERY strong like a strong duty (Vivi) can stop the adventurer.
And again,
Once a pirate, always a pirate.
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You all have the same argument, so ignoring you won't change much of a thing.
Now, (on the continuation to my previous post)
To reply to my argument, You could legitimately say. "Okay.. so Carrot will want to continue her adventure but nothing they that she would want to be a strawhat, there are other ways"
But:
1. For reasons I have explained on twitter, the probability of getting new members on the fleet is almost inexistant.
2. Even as a future fleet member, Carrot as been the most fleshed out Mink in the story. It is therefore very unlikely that she could just be behind another captain mink.
Because...
3. Carrot as never been depicted as a captain. Carrot as always been shown as a follower, never a leader. So this will most likely never happen.
So the probability for Carrot getting out to sea outside the strawhat realm is close to 0
That's why the only logical assumption for that character, is the strawhat crew.
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Now, (on the continuation to my previous post)
To reply to my argument, You could legitimately say. "Okay.. so Carrot will want to continue her adventure but nothing they that she would want to be a strawhat, there are other ways"
But:
1. For reasons I have explained on twitter, the probability of getting new members on the fleet is almost inexistant.
2. Even as a future fleet member, Carrot as been the most fleshed out Mink in the story. It is therefore very unlikely that she could just be behind another captain mink.
Because...
3. Carrot as never been depicted as a captain. Carrot as always been shown as a follower, never a leader. So this will most likely never happen.
So the probability for Carrot getting out to sea outside the strawhat realm is close to 0
That's why the only logical assumption for that character, is the strawhat crew.
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and you keep saying want to ignore us only to come back over and over again. Hopefully you didn’t hit your head when you said “Carrot fans know there is a chance to be wrong. I don’t see that on Yamato stans.”
and FYI your sneak away argument has always been a dumb argument. The only time a Straw Hat snuck on a ship was Robin, and Robin immediately invited herself to the crew and Luffy immediately approved her. Since that time Robin has been officially a Straw Hat. Why Carrot needs to sneak away again instead of inviting herself or be invited to the crew? You didn’t clearly answer this argument. All your replies were head-canons, and you said I was ignoring ALL of your arguments. Your arguments are all headcanons, pointless, and ignorant for the record.
You said Yamato fans have “bad faith arguments” while your arguments themselves, as you said above, are logical ASSUMPTIONS. Isn’t it ironic, that as a self proclaimed analyst, your arguments are based on assumptions, not on evidences?Your sneak away argument is an example of bad faith argument. I want to say stop being dumb but again you’ve always been a whole circus to begin with
and FYI your sneak away argument has always been a dumb argument. The only time a Straw Hat snuck on a ship was Robin, and Robin immediately invited herself to the crew and Luffy immediately approved her. Since that time Robin has been officially a Straw Hat. Why Carrot needs to sneak away again instead of inviting herself or be invited to the crew? You didn’t clearly answer this argument. All your replies were head-canons, and you said I was ignoring ALL of your arguments. Your arguments are all headcanons, pointless, and ignorant for the record.
You said Yamato fans have “bad faith arguments” while your arguments themselves, as you said above, are logical ASSUMPTIONS. Isn’t it ironic, that as a self proclaimed analyst, your arguments are based on assumptions, not on evidences?Your sneak away argument is an example of bad faith argument. I want to say stop being dumb but again you’ve always been a whole circus to begin with
Ignoring you =/= ignoring all of you lol And I said that I was ignoring you only if you keep you toxicity, not your argumentation.
Robin was not officialy a strawhat when she invited herself. Narratively, she has been officialized only after the Events of Enies Lobby.
Your question "Why Carrot needs to sneak away again instead of inviting herself or be invited to the crew?" can be answer simply:
Characterization.
Carrot is like Robin. Carrot doesn't ask, she takes. This can be said because of the occurence of her previous characterization, if you can understand what I mean by that.
So, Carrot asking the strawhat to join them would need a lot more characterisation than just snucking again on the ship.. why ? Because characterization. Again, Carrot doesn't ask, she takes.
And this behaviour of her is accepted because Carrot is young, determinate, and because she knows that the only way to do that properly is to appear at the last minute, at a point of no return.
Luffy will have no other choice that to accept her or to go back. Something that would negate pages of Farewells.
Narratively, Carrot can only be accepted in the crew. Like a stowaway first. And maybe perhaps only later, a strawhat.
My guess is that Oda will make the whole cake part of the crew (Nami Jinbe, Brook and Chopper) explain how Carrot acted as a look-out and save the crew as a Sulong to make Luffy accept her.
Once Carrot is in the crew, Oda will have free ground to developp her correctly.
Robin was not officialy a strawhat when she invited herself. Narratively, she has been officialized only after the Events of Enies Lobby.
Your question "Why Carrot needs to sneak away again instead of inviting herself or be invited to the crew?" can be answer simply:
Characterization.
Carrot is like Robin. Carrot doesn't ask, she takes. This can be said because of the occurence of her previous characterization, if you can understand what I mean by that.
So, Carrot asking the strawhat to join them would need a lot more characterisation than just snucking again on the ship.. why ? Because characterization. Again, Carrot doesn't ask, she takes.
And this behaviour of her is accepted because Carrot is young, determinate, and because she knows that the only way to do that properly is to appear at the last minute, at a point of no return.
Luffy will have no other choice that to accept her or to go back. Something that would negate pages of Farewells.
Narratively, Carrot can only be accepted in the crew. Like a stowaway first. And maybe perhaps only later, a strawhat.
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My guess is that Oda will make the whole cake part of the crew (Nami Jinbe, Brook and Chopper) explain how Carrot acted as a look-out and save the crew as a Sulong to make Luffy accept her.
Once Carrot is in the crew, Oda will have free ground to developp her correctly.
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Like i said, youre getting a little too worked up. You posted a stupid example and then got bitter for being called out. I never said what i personally think will happen, i just pointed out that her backstory along with the journal is incomplete, that her goals are incomplete and that her character building is incomplete. So "So far" means nothing when the character is just in its introduction arc, a brief flashback clash with Ace where she stated this desire of going out is all we have. So yeah, i think youre wrong and ill quote you every time i think you are. If that makes you angry thats not my problem.
again, headcanons. Robin has officially been a Straw Hat ever since the first time she invited herself and Luffy accepted her. You should buy the manga especially post Alabasta, specifically manga volume 25. Since volume 25, in the introduction page of Straw Hats, Robin has always been depicted as “Straw Hat Pirates (archaeologist)”. Meanwhile, until now, Carrot doesn’t belong to the Straw Hats. Even the introduction page itself explains it. Your argument here is the perfect example of bad faith arguments. I really hope you’re not drunk nor did you hit your head when you replied this.
All you can say now is “assumption”, “perhaps” or “my guess” which means those are not 100% taken from evidences, and those come from self proclaimed analyst. How ironic. Even as a characterization, Oda has never once make a Straw Hat stows away twice instead of being invited, or inviting themselves to the crew. Those come from your head-canons. Please don’t say “Carrot fans know there is a chance to be wrong” and blame it on Yamato fans, while what you’ve been doing all these times is the opposite of your statement.
and for the record, I know you were trying to ignore me and IDGAF about it. You say you’ll keep ignoring me only to reply again and again. Isn’t it also dumb that you said “all of you” then in the next reply said “ignoring you =/= ignoring all of you” while in the previous reply you said ALL OF YOU? Illiterate much?
All you can say now is “assumption”, “perhaps” or “my guess” which means those are not 100% taken from evidences, and those come from self proclaimed analyst. How ironic. Even as a characterization, Oda has never once make a Straw Hat stows away twice instead of being invited, or inviting themselves to the crew. Those come from your head-canons. Please don’t say “Carrot fans know there is a chance to be wrong” and blame it on Yamato fans, while what you’ve been doing all these times is the opposite of your statement.
and for the record, I know you were trying to ignore me and IDGAF about it. You say you’ll keep ignoring me only to reply again and again. Isn’t it also dumb that you said “all of you” then in the next reply said “ignoring you =/= ignoring all of you” while in the previous reply you said ALL OF YOU? Illiterate much?
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Don't patronized me on One Piece dude.. don't go so low. Expecially with me. I'm not adament on the story for nothing...
All I'm telling is LOGICAL assumption(s). In other words probabilities. For example:
Carrot having a lot of focus in the future of Wano is less probable than the opposite.. BASED on the actual content we have right now. <<< THIS...
.. Is an assumption, it does not make it less logical nor less true.
Do you understand why, now, sayin "you are only making assumptions" is meaningless. Yes I make assumtions, and those assumption while being subjective are also the most logical ones.
Narratively, Robin was depicted as a strawhat, it does not make her a strawhat. Because if it did, you would actually be rooting for Carrot right now, because spoiler: Carrot did the look out like a strawhat. (ah bah oui.. la on est coincé.. lol)
You have debunked nothing I just said here so don't even try calling my argument "bad faith" just because you can't accept them as true.
Sorry, but the most logical assumption is for Carrot to sneak again because of what she lived, not the opposite. You can say EVERYTHING you want to counter that argument, it's strong as stone and nothing here is biaised.. it's pure logic on the base of the characterization of the character.
Now.. Perhaps the problem is that you don't understand either what characterization means or.. you just forgot how Carrot was characterized. So my advice: Go back to the story. reread whole cake to Wano maybe once.. or twice.. or 10 times, like I did.. I then maybe you will understand what I'm talking about when I talk about characterization and the potential of Carrot as a crewmate.
All I'm telling is LOGICAL assumption(s). In other words probabilities. For example:
Carrot having a lot of focus in the future of Wano is less probable than the opposite.. BASED on the actual content we have right now. <<< THIS...
.. Is an assumption, it does not make it less logical nor less true.
Do you understand why, now, sayin "you are only making assumptions" is meaningless. Yes I make assumtions, and those assumption while being subjective are also the most logical ones.
Narratively, Robin was depicted as a strawhat, it does not make her a strawhat. Because if it did, you would actually be rooting for Carrot right now, because spoiler: Carrot did the look out like a strawhat. (ah bah oui.. la on est coincé.. lol)
You have debunked nothing I just said here so don't even try calling my argument "bad faith" just because you can't accept them as true.
Sorry, but the most logical assumption is for Carrot to sneak again because of what she lived, not the opposite. You can say EVERYTHING you want to counter that argument, it's strong as stone and nothing here is biaised.. it's pure logic on the base of the characterization of the character.
Now.. Perhaps the problem is that you don't understand either what characterization means or.. you just forgot how Carrot was characterized. So my advice: Go back to the story. reread whole cake to Wano maybe once.. or twice.. or 10 times, like I did.. I then maybe you will understand what I'm talking about when I talk about characterization and the potential of Carrot as a crewmate.
lmao aren’t you the one who’s patronizing everybody else who disagrees with you? You even said you’re a (self-proclaimed) analyst, and everybody here who disagrees with you have bad faith arguments. You’ve been doing those kind of things since beginning, and when being countered, you played the victim card and trying to incite as you said “war” LMAO.
Your illogical sense of “Robin was depicted as a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” is totally stupid. Again, I suggest you read the specific manga volume 25 and above. Robin has always been depicted as “Straw Hats Pirates’ archaelogist” ever since she joined and that’s a fact. Means that since volume 25 (in fact volume 24 but in volume 24 Robin wasn’t put in the Straw Hats section yet) Robin has always been a Straw Hat. See it for yourself, and if you keep denying the fact of Robin being a Straw Hat based on your assumption is totally ignorant, therefore means you’ve never been qualified as your supposedly, self-proclaimed analyst. You’re just a terrible analyst wannabe fail
Your arguments above are the perfect example of bad faith arguments and mental gymnastics. Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself further. You’re the literal epitome of the grand circus of the century.
Your illogical sense of “Robin was depicted as a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” is totally stupid. Again, I suggest you read the specific manga volume 25 and above. Robin has always been depicted as “Straw Hats Pirates’ archaelogist” ever since she joined and that’s a fact. Means that since volume 25 (in fact volume 24 but in volume 24 Robin wasn’t put in the Straw Hats section yet) Robin has always been a Straw Hat. See it for yourself, and if you keep denying the fact of Robin being a Straw Hat based on your assumption is totally ignorant, therefore means you’ve never been qualified as your supposedly, self-proclaimed analyst. You’re just a terrible analyst wannabe fail
Your arguments above are the perfect example of bad faith arguments and mental gymnastics. Seriously, stop embarrassing yourself further. You’re the literal epitome of the grand circus of the century.
I have a question. If you are respectful with another being.. do you die ?
I understand what you mean, and I do not consider that a justified explanation. In fact I consider that the storytelling goes against that anotation (even if I have to verify it) So if I have to choose, I choose the story over an anotation. Because the story is clear. During those volume, Robin is not narratively considered really a part of the crew, but a stowaway. Doing a job doesn't mean you are part of the crew.
But I can let that go.. again, I understand where you are coming from.
This.. however, does not negate what I said about Carrot.
I understand what you mean, and I do not consider that a justified explanation. In fact I consider that the storytelling goes against that anotation (even if I have to verify it) So if I have to choose, I choose the story over an anotation. Because the story is clear. During those volume, Robin is not narratively considered really a part of the crew, but a stowaway. Doing a job doesn't mean you are part of the crew.
But I can let that go.. again, I understand where you are coming from.
This.. however, does not negate what I said about Carrot.
Robin had hints of various dialogue of future backstory throughout alabasta arc,skypia, and the foxy arc.
Regarding the will of d, to many enemies with in her dream, being wanted criminal by the world government, working for various organization in the past and uncovering an unknown history.
carrot had a one-page backstory how she obtains her gauntlets. She hasn't mention anything about the dawn that pedro spoke of. Throughout wano carrot has not done much of anything besides save Marco.
Cat viper and Dog storm have already defeated Jack and perospero. So, her situation ends being remarkably similar to Rebecca. The fact oda completely off screen her battle against the person that her mentor figure could not finish off. The fact oda didn't give us any additional information surrounding her relationship with her mentor figure. As well none of the strawhats came to help her against the people responsible for harming her on personal level. When we were heading to onigashima ussop literally took role being look out/sniper. Imo it's looking very grim for carrot at this point.
Regarding the will of d, to many enemies with in her dream, being wanted criminal by the world government, working for various organization in the past and uncovering an unknown history.
carrot had a one-page backstory how she obtains her gauntlets. She hasn't mention anything about the dawn that pedro spoke of. Throughout wano carrot has not done much of anything besides save Marco.
Cat viper and Dog storm have already defeated Jack and perospero. So, her situation ends being remarkably similar to Rebecca. The fact oda completely off screen her battle against the person that her mentor figure could not finish off. The fact oda didn't give us any additional information surrounding her relationship with her mentor figure. As well none of the strawhats came to help her against the people responsible for harming her on personal level. When we were heading to onigashima ussop literally took role being look out/sniper. Imo it's looking very grim for carrot at this point.
And here you are still denying the fact that each One Piece manga volume especially the introduction page has put Robin in the Straw Hats section ever since she joined, specifically as an archaeologist. It’s very ironic that you say “Carrot fans know there is a chance to be wrong” and you’re clearly wrong on this part and yet you’re still denying that you’re wrong.
“Doing a job doesn’t mean she’s part of the crew” then it goes for Carrot. At least since volume 25, Robin has always been a Straw Hat. Nobody has seen Carrot put in the Straw Hats section like Robin always has been. Again I suggest you to literate. Buy the manga if you can afford them, and see the introduction characters page. I seriously can’t understand why you keep denying the obvious fact that Robin has always been a Straw Hat the moment she invited herself and Luffy accepted her into the crew. I’ve given you the exact evidences, from the specific manga page, and you keep denying it. You can’t even prove it otherwise with facts also; instead you’re trying to prove you’re right based on your assumptions.
Seriously? The argument now is “just because Robin was depicted with a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” while every part of the manga, especially the introduction page, points that Robin has been a Straw Hat, and use that kind of argument in favor for Carrot? Talk about having bad faith argument, and here you are giving the perfect example of it with your huge denial. Please, don’t compare goddess Robin with Carrot. It’s like comparing a heaven to hell, and we all know Robin is the heaven.
For the record I am respectful to some of Carrot fans who wants to admit they’re wrong, and many of them do that. Unfortunately, you don’t. Some people need a huge bitch slap to know between reality and delusion. Honestly, are you not ashamed of yourself?
“Doing a job doesn’t mean she’s part of the crew” then it goes for Carrot. At least since volume 25, Robin has always been a Straw Hat. Nobody has seen Carrot put in the Straw Hats section like Robin always has been. Again I suggest you to literate. Buy the manga if you can afford them, and see the introduction characters page. I seriously can’t understand why you keep denying the obvious fact that Robin has always been a Straw Hat the moment she invited herself and Luffy accepted her into the crew. I’ve given you the exact evidences, from the specific manga page, and you keep denying it. You can’t even prove it otherwise with facts also; instead you’re trying to prove you’re right based on your assumptions.
Seriously? The argument now is “just because Robin was depicted with a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” while every part of the manga, especially the introduction page, points that Robin has been a Straw Hat, and use that kind of argument in favor for Carrot? Talk about having bad faith argument, and here you are giving the perfect example of it with your huge denial. Please, don’t compare goddess Robin with Carrot. It’s like comparing a heaven to hell, and we all know Robin is the heaven.
For the record I am respectful to some of Carrot fans who wants to admit they’re wrong, and many of them do that. Unfortunately, you don’t. Some people need a huge bitch slap to know between reality and delusion. Honestly, are you not ashamed of yourself?
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And here you are still denying the fact that each One Piece manga volume especially the introduction page has put Robin in the Straw Hats section ever since she joined, specifically as an archaeologist. It’s very ironic that you say “Carrot fans know there is a chance to be wrong” and you’re clearly wrong on this part and yet you’re still denying that you’re wrong.
“Doing a job doesn’t mean she’s part of the crew” then it goes for Carrot. At least since volume 25, Robin has always been a Straw Hat. Nobody has seen Carrot put in the Straw Hats section like Robin always has been. Again I suggest you to literate. Buy the manga if you can afford them, and see the introduction characters page. I seriously can’t understand why you keep denying the obvious fact that Robin has always been a Straw Hat the moment she invited herself and Luffy accepted her into the crew. I’ve given you the exact evidences, from the specific manga page, and you keep denying it. You can’t even prove it otherwise with facts also; instead you’re trying to prove you’re right based on your assumptions.
Seriously? The argument now is “just because Robin was depicted as a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” while every part of the manga points that Robin has been a Straw Hat? Talk about having bad faith argument, and here you are giving the perfect example of it with your huge denial
For the record I am respectful to some of Carrot fans who wants to admit they’re wrong, and many of them do that. Unfortunately, you don’t. Some people need a huge bitch slap to know between reality and delusion. Honestly, are you not ashamed of yourself?
“Doing a job doesn’t mean she’s part of the crew” then it goes for Carrot. At least since volume 25, Robin has always been a Straw Hat. Nobody has seen Carrot put in the Straw Hats section like Robin always has been. Again I suggest you to literate. Buy the manga if you can afford them, and see the introduction characters page. I seriously can’t understand why you keep denying the obvious fact that Robin has always been a Straw Hat the moment she invited herself and Luffy accepted her into the crew. I’ve given you the exact evidences, from the specific manga page, and you keep denying it. You can’t even prove it otherwise with facts also; instead you’re trying to prove you’re right based on your assumptions.
Seriously? The argument now is “just because Robin was depicted as a Straw Hat doesn’t mean she’s a Straw Hat” while every part of the manga points that Robin has been a Straw Hat? Talk about having bad faith argument, and here you are giving the perfect example of it with your huge denial
For the record I am respectful to some of Carrot fans who wants to admit they’re wrong, and many of them do that. Unfortunately, you don’t. Some people need a huge bitch slap to know between reality and delusion. Honestly, are you not ashamed of yourself?
Like I said, I'm based on the story, not the annotations. I'm not denying them, I'm just saying their are in opposition with the storytelling. I trust the storytelling more. Again, I would explained it to you in detail you would find a way to deny everything out of pure badfaith. So I won't even bother. And I accept to grant you this point. But even then that's not really important as it is a bad example.
If I were agreeing that Robin was a strawhat, you would need to agree that carrot is a strawhat because.. On the side of Carrot. Congrat's you just understood a simple thing: Carrot is not a strawhat yet, and noone is saying the opposite. Not even me.
But again.. all of this doesn't negate what I said ealier about Carrot.
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