Powers & Abilities Enma is just a training wheel.

[ImmaIvanoM]

If enma is just training wheel then so was gears pre ts, so is g4 currently

Or am I wrong?

This means nothing though.

I mean I'm assuming you are trolling because I'm sure even you can't actually make sense of what you just said.

For the sake of conversation, you can just pick a point I made in the original post and directly address it instead meandering off into nonsense. That is if you want to actually discuss something

 

[Geo]

Yeah not all haki is at the same level become of control

Tho both luffy and zoro are improving and strengthening their haki because they're getting better control of it
So imo on an individual bases training and improving your haki makes it stronger than before but doesn't mean its still as strong as someone elses. Like luffy still likley has weaket coa than wb but dont mean his didn't get stronger

Well your initial post implied that learning to control your haki flow leads to your haki getting stronger.
However, that isn't shown to be case. Enma Zoro's haki control would be better than Shusui Zoro's but that doesn't necessarily mean that Enma Zoro's haki itself is stronger than Shusui Zoro's.
Same application for Luffy

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Why are you the only one talking about Enma in 2 threads ?

Translations are now wrong coz Sword and Mihawk wank needs a boost
But the real translations mistakes you don't accept it.

Yeah yeah

Aren't I talking about two different things?

One thread is about Enma as it applies to Zoro in the story.

The other thread is about the plot hole presented by the English translation that Enma is the only sword to cut Kaido.

Did you nor understand that I'm talking about different things? Did you read what I was even talking about to begin with?

 

[Geo]

So imo on an individual bases training and improving your haki makes it stronger

This is correct.
But you should notice that training haki strength is different from training to improve the application of one's haki.

 

[Finalbeta]

Luffy is different story. His gears are part of his own body, whether he trained or not. Enma is an object allowing Zoro to power up due to its training.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

However, that isn't shown to be case. Enma Zoro's haki control would be better than Shusui Zoro's but that doesn't necessarily mean that Enma Zoro's haki itself is stronger than Shusui Zoro's.
Same application for Luffy

But where are you getting all this specificity? Haki as a power system hasn't been explained well enough for you to be making such concrete statements IMO.

When Zoro stopped the sword from draining him, the only comments made were "if you were a normal swordsman you would've been knocked out". And then when Zoro decides to train he says "I'll get stronger"

There's no indication really that you can make such specific statements about how Zoro's haki will improve from just the information we have now

 

[Jo_Ndule]

This means nothing though.

I mean I'm assuming you are trolling because I'm sure even you can't actually make sense of what you just said.

For the sake of conversation, you can just pick a point I made in the original post and directly address it instead meandering off into nonsense. That is if you want to actually discuss something

Lol Training wheel

You are either trying to paint something else to make it seem as if it isn't a PU but you go on stating it is there to make Zoro get stronger and then you say it wont affect combat stats

Huh?
If it is there to make Zoro stronger then it is a PU!
Anything that's there to boost you is a PU!
It will surely affect Combat since Zoro will be stronger after taming Enma , by also using it.

Next up :

Zoro doesn't need to tame Enma
Zoro could do this without Enma
Zoro will be better without Enma
Zoro ..
Zoro...

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Lol Training wheel

You are either trying to paint something else to make it seem as if it isn't a PU but you go on stating it is there to make Zoro get stronger and then you say it wont affect combat stats

Huh?
If it is there to make Zoro stronger then it I'd a PU!
Anything that's there to boost you is a PU!
It will surely affect Combat since Zoro will be stronger after taming Enma , by also using it.

Next up :

Zoro doesn't need to tame Enma
Zoro could do this without Enma
Zoro will be better without Enma
Zoro ..
Zoro...

I'm afraid of your reading comprehension.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

If it is there to make Zoro stronger then it I'd a PU

What about Hyogoro? Is HyoGorosei also considered a power up for Luffy or is he a trainer?

 

[Geo]

But where are you getting all this specificity? Haki as a power system hasn't been explained well enough for you to be making such concrete statements IMO.

When Zoro stopped the sword from draining him, the only comments made were "if you were a normal swordsman you would've been knocked out". And then when Zoro decides to train he says "I'll get stronger"

There's no indication really that you can make such specific statements about how Zoro's haki will improve from just the information we have now

There's been more than enough explanations and showings in the manga to make such a conclusion.

Zoro said if he gets used to the sword then it would mean he was stronger. The stronger here does not mean his haki will be stronger because that's not the drawback the sword provides.
Enma uses the user's Ryou than is necessary.
Zoro to get used to this will have to stop the sword from doing that.
This skill leads more to control of the flow of Haki.

We already know from Hyo and Udon training that there is such a thing as haki control so don't see how the info is lacking

 

[Sword God Ryuma]

We found out that another Sword cut Kaido. So this magic sword nonesense or Zoro would never be able to cut Kaido woth Shisui is BS. Like we told yall before the Swordsman matter and Zoro with Shisui would cut him too.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The stronger here does not mean his haki will be stronger because that's not the drawback the sword provides.
Enma uses the user's Ryou than is necessary.
Zoro to get used to this will have to stop the sword from doing that.
This skill leads more to control of the flow of Haki.

We already know from Hyo and Udon training that there is such a thing as haki control so don't see how the info is lacking

I know haki control is a thing what I'm arguing about is what specfically Zoro gains from training with Enma

Let's look at this this way. If Zoro has doesnt have much haki but good Haki control that sword would've knocked him out since for example the haki required to cut that cliff might have been all the haki he had to begin with and him being able to control it wouldn't matter since he'd be knocked out.

Then there's the inverse where Zoro doesn't have good haki control but he has a lot of haki and when he cuts the cliff the slash even goes as far cutting through the water and down to the bottom of the sea. Then Zoro passes out since he has alot of haki but such poor control that it all gets used up with a gigantic slash.

See all we got from Hitetsu was Zoro is not a "normal swordsman" for having restrained the sword enough that he actually got back his haki without being knocked out. It can be argued that BOTH having a lot of haki and having a lot of haki control both contributed to this since the lots of haki prevented him from getting knocked out from just cutting a cliff and the haki control got his haki back from the sword.

It's possible to argue both were requirements and so when training BOTH ARE IMPROVED. ZOro has to prevent himself from getting knocked out so he has to summon lots of haki and he has to prevent himself from losing it all so he has to control it from flowing out willy nilly. He's using both things to train. Or maybe he is using one more than the other. Or maybe he really only needs one and not the other like you suggest.

My point is it CAN BE ARGUED whichever way since its not clear which is important or more important here and that's because Haki as a system isn't as clear on what exactly does what where.

 

[Geo]

I know haki control is a thing what I'm arguing about is what specfically Zoro gains from training with Enma

Let's look at this this way. If Zoro has doesnt have much haki but good Haki control that sword would've knocked him out since for example the haki required to cut that cliff might have been all the haki he had to begin with and him being able to control it wouldn't matter since he'd be knocked out.

Then there's the inverse where Zoro doesn't have good haki control but he has a lot of haki and when he cuts the cliff the slash even goes as far cutting through the water and down to the bottom of the sea. Then Zoro passes out since he has alot of haki but such poor control that it all gets used up with a gigantic slash.

See all we got from Hitetsu was Zoro is not a "normal swordsman" for having restrained the sword enough that he actually got back his haki without being knocked out. It can be argued that BOTH having a lot of haki and having a lot of haki control both contributed to this since the lots of haki prevented him from getting knocked out from just cutting a cliff and the haki control got his haki back from the sword.

It's possible to argue both were requirements and so when training BOTH ARE IMPROVED. ZOro has to prevent himself from getting knocked out so he has to summon lots of haki and he has to prevent himself from losing it all so he has to control it from flowing out willy nilly. He's using both things to train. Or maybe he is using one more than the other. Or maybe he really only needs one and not the other like you suggest.

My point is it CAN BE ARGUED whichever way since its not clear which is important or more important here and that's because Haki as a system isn't as clear on what exactly does what where.

I'm not sure I follow.

My statement was that the sword's drawback forces Zoro to control his haki which you have also stated in your post.

I never made mention of the hAki pool of an individual. Which to be honest has no basis in manga because nowhere in the manga is it stated that the haki pool in people are of different quantity

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I'm not sure I follow.

My statement was that the sword's drawback forces Zoro to control his haki which you have also stated in your post.

I never made mention of the hAki pool of an individual. Which to be honest has no basis in manga because nowhere in the manga is it stated that the haki pool in people are of different quantity

Didn't Pica once literally attack Zoro UNARMED and say "Your haki has to be greater than mine to cut me". Also Doflamingo that one time said Vergo has enough haki to resist Law's devil fruit. Also there was that time Luffy said Cracker has the best CoA he's faced. And there was that time Katakuri stomped Luffy's Gear fourth haki and said He has greater haki than so he can harm him even in gear fourth.

Like surely if Enma was to drain All of Zoro's haki in a slash, that attack is clearly not gonna be the same strength as if Enma were to be used by Cabaji?

Are you saying it's possible for both Cabaji and Zoro to have the same amount of haki since you don't think Quantity of haki is a thing?

 

[Geo]

Didn't Pica once literally attack Zoro UNARMED and say "Your haki has to be greater than mine to cut me". Also Doflamingo that one time said Vergo has enough haki to resist Law's devil fruit. Also there was that time Luffy said Cracker has the best CoA he's faced. And there was that time Katakuri stomped Luffy's Gear fourth haki and said He has greater haki than so he can harm him even in gear fourth.

Like surely if Enma was to drain All of Zoro's haki in a slash, that attack is clearly not gonna be the same strength as if Enma were to be used by Cabaji?

Are you saying it's possible for both Cabaji and Zoro to have the same amount of haki since you don't think Quantity of haki is a thing?

But non of these is haki pool. Luffy never said that Cracker had the best haki. All those instances were talking about the strength of their COA not the amount of COA.

Not the case because Cabaji has not awakened the use of his haki.

I'm saying there is no information on two individuals having different pools of Haki. In Rayleigh's explanation, he said all humans have haki but he never made mention of there being different pools. I guess that's where training comes in.

 

[Dark Hound]

The BS you guys spew does not change what the manga has said, Enma takes the user's haki and makes them cut more than neccessary.

That is a power up.

How is that a power up if it takes your Haki ?

Being too aggressive is a power up now ? Killing an ant with a bazooka is more than necessary, but i'ts not a power up

 

[Haoshoku]

The real power up has yet to come with Zoro, something I’ve seen being pushed to the backburner and not much people talking about this .....is Zoro learning to cut fire Which has been foreshadowed multiple times:

Spoiler

Unexplained scene where Zoro uses his one and only fire based attack with no flames around him to utilize.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Utilizes the fire around him to cut Mr 5 with a fire based attack and then goes on to say:

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Not the case because Cabaji has not awakened the use of his haki.

Okay then Tashigi. Let's say Tashigi uses Enma and she's drained entirely vs Zoro uses Enma and gets drained entirely.

The term Pica directly uses in the English translation is "greater haki"

I mean We can tell what types of COA there are can't we? There's Tashigi using the basic stuff, then there's Zoro using hardening then there's Roger using the barrier and then there's Luffy b g the penetration

These are QUALITY of COA haki so far in the story. Clearly represented different and having relatively different effects. And yet Zoro' hardening of COA overcame Pica's hardening of COA. Same way Cracker and Katakuri's COA hardening overcame Luffy's CoA.

That's us talking about people overcoming other people's same QUALITY of COA. So what's happening here exactly? What the deciding factor that makes people using the same Quality of COA overcome one another if there isn't a concept of QUANTITY of COA? Again Pica says Zoro must have greater COA to beat him and Zoro didn't jump into advanced COA to do it so he's actual nature of COA didn't change, it was just the quantity.

Rayleigh says everyone has Haki but there are concepts of one person having greater life force than another person in one piece. And I know Life force isn't the same another's haki but they are similar in concept since they are both innate forms of energy inside people and yet it's shown it's not equally distributed among all living things.
[automerge]1580578503[/automerge]

The BS you guys spew does not change what the manga has said, Enma takes the user's haki and makes them cut more than neccessary.

That is a power up.

What is Zoro training to do though? Is he training to not let the sword take his haki or is he training for it take his haki?

 

[Enma]

The real power up has yet to come with Zoro, something I’ve seen being pushed to the backburner and not much people talking about this .....is Zoro learning to cut fire Which has been foreshadowed multiple times:

Spoiler

Unexplained scene where Zoro uses his one and only fire based attack with no flames around him to utilize.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

Utilizes the fire around him to cut Mr 5 with a fire based attack and then goes on to say:

Useless power-up, tbh.

 

[Zowo]

Useless power-up, tbh.

it will help against king and kaido