Character Discussion We really dont care if Sanji is weaker than Zoro.

#81
Are you sure? hahahaha...
How is he durable than Kaido? King flame defense isn't a big thing.
Because Zoro was able to cut Kaido with no issue but he could barely do anything to King even with a Shi-shishi sonson

Wdym "isn't a big thing" we're literally talking about attacks that could cut Kaido whose dragon scales are supposed to be incredibly difficult to penetrate yet they did not cut King

Kaido is still a lot stronger than King, I don't understand why you can't accept King can do 1 fucking thing better than him
 
#82
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Not a hard thing to figure out. Pre advanced conqueror’s coating Zoro cut Kaido but he couldn’t cut flame on king. King durability with flames > Kaido’s
Kaido still fighting after several attacks and king is down.
Because Zoro was able to cut Kaido with no issue but he could barely do anything to King even with a Shi-shishi sonson

Wdym "isn't a big thing" we're literally talking about attacks that could cut Kaido whose dragon scales are supposed to be incredibly difficult to penetrate yet they did not cut King

Kaido is still a lot stronger than King, I don't understand why you can't accept King can do 1 fucking thing better than him
Because King has nothing better than Kaido. Kaido still fighting.
 
#83
Kaido still fighting after several attacks and king is down.
Kaido has greater endurance than king, easy peasy lemon squeezy. King being above Kaido in one single aspect doesn’t make him superior overall, not even close.
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Let me put it to you this way @Buggy06
King - 100 Defense stat/50 HP stat
Kaido - 90 defense stat/100 HP stat
The exact numbers don’t really mean shit but I want to visualize it for you so that it’s easier to understand
 
#86
Are you sure? hahahaha...
How is he durable than Kaido? King flame defense isn't a big thing.
Flaming King + Zoan Defense > Kaidos Scales.

Kaidos endurance and healing is just much higher. King has better defense but Kaidos for better everything else.

Commanders can have better stats than their emperors:
Marco - Healing
Jozu - Defense
King - Defense
Queen - Variety
Katakuri - CoO

Beckman Shiryu Lafitte and others probably have their own skills as well
 
#88
I am morbidly curious about what a variety stat is or what it’s supposed to mean lol
It’s the best way to describe “Hax” outside of just Hax.

Queen has the normal Ancient Zoan boosts, combined with science and lasers surpassing that of Vegapunks Cyborgs, and then adding onto that:
Lightning speed movement
Eye Lasers
Invisibility
And fast and strong retractions

All from the germa tech.

As a fighter he has the most weapons and utility.
 
#89
It’s the best way to describe “Hax” outside of just Hax.

Queen has the normal Ancient Zoan boosts, combined with science and lasers surpassing that of Vegapunks Cyborgs, and then adding onto that:
Lightning speed movement
Eye Lasers
Invisibility
And fast and strong retractions

All from the germa tech.

As a fighter he has the most weapons and utility.
I think Queen is full of shit when he says his tech surpasses vegapunk’s but that’s a different discussion. I also don’t really think he has any hax outside of his plague rounds which are super unlikely to land on any strong opponent but all that aside, thank you for the explanation lol.
 
#90
I think Queen is full of shit when he says his tech surpasses vegapunk’s but that’s a different discussion. I also don’t really think he has any hax outside of his plague rounds which are super unlikely to land on any strong opponent but all that aside, thank you for the explanation lol.
I mean In a side by side comparison with the shogun, he clearly wasn’t lying. He uses Frankys ultimate move in an even greater ways than Franky who studied Vegapunks exact designs and whos Vegapunks assistant Caesar said was just like Vegapunks tech.

And invisibility is a strong Hax, Nijis electricity enhancement that Queen has allows him to move at the speed of lightning, and adding that to the explosion tech that made up Ichiji that allowed him to drill a hole through oven with the same attack Queen was spamming, it’s plenty of Hax.
 
#92
I mean In a side by side comparison with the shogun, he clearly wasn’t lying. He uses Frankys ultimate move in an even greater ways than Franky who studied Vegapunks exact designs and whos Vegapunks assistant Caesar said was just like Vegapunks tech.

And invisibility is a strong Hax, Nijis electricity enhancement that Queen has allows him to move at the speed of lightning, and adding that to the explosion tech that made up Ichiji that allowed him to drill a hole through oven with the same attack Queen was spamming, it’s plenty of Hax.
Vegapunk’s tech has likely come a long way from what Franky got to study but that’s speculation. I guess you can say it’s superior for now given what we know but like I said, whole different discussion.

It’s still pretty unclear just how strong invisibility really is against haki users. The one time queen hit osome without Sanji’s knowledge, he was lost in thought completely. The second time there were audio queues but it’s hard to prove that observation haki wasn’t involved at all either. As far as lasers go… meh shooting a hole through oven of all characters isn’t that impressive and it’s not that big of a feat. I classify Queen’s “hax” more so under gimmicks because most of what he does is just not that powerful. Niji’s electric speed isn’t super great either compared to the speed of top tiers. We were dealing with lightning speed pre time skip and queen technically hasn’t shown the ability to move at that speed regardless, it’s just a relatively safe assumption to make that he can.
 
#93
Vegapunk’s tech has likely come a long way from what Franky got to study but that’s speculation. I guess you can say it’s superior for now given what we know but like I said, whole different discussion.

It’s still pretty unclear just how strong invisibility really is against haki users. The one time queen hit osome without Sanji’s knowledge, he was lost in thought completely. The second time there were audio queues but it’s hard to prove that observation haki wasn’t involved at all either. As far as lasers go… meh shooting a hole through oven of all characters isn’t that impressive and it’s not that big of a feat. I classify Queen’s “hax” more so under gimmicks because most of what he does is just not that powerful. Niji’s electric speed isn’t super great either compared to the speed of top tiers. We were dealing with lightning speed pre time skip and queen technically hasn’t shown the ability to move at that speed regardless, it’s just a relatively safe assumption to make that he can.
Sanjis the only person who’s been able to see through invisibility to date. King Queen Drake Hawkins Page One, all confirmed haki users failed to see through it so it’s pretty strong.

Oven has the strongest body of his entire family other than big mom according to the Vivre cards.

And Enels lightning speed was too much pre timeskip for everyone. And judging by Niji speed blitzed multiple ministers and haki users simultaneously, it’s still incredibly fast.

Calling them gimmicks just seems like you’re purposefully trying to downplay these powers which allowed Germa to fight nearly an entire Yonkou pirate crew.
 
#94
Sanjis the only person who’s been able to see through invisibility to date. King Queen Drake Hawkins Page One, all confirmed haki users failed to see through it so it’s pretty strong.

Oven has the strongest body of his entire family other than big mom according to the Vivre cards.

And Enels lightning speed was too much pre timeskip for everyone. And judging by Niji speed blitzed multiple ministers and haki users simultaneously, it’s still incredibly fast.

Calling them gimmicks just seems like you’re purposefully trying to downplay these powers which allowed Germa to fight nearly an entire Yonkou pirate crew.
I’ll give you page one but the rest had no reason to be on guard and using CoO at the time

I legitimately was not aware of that vivre card data so fair enough but within big mom’s family outside of herself, there’s no meaningful benchmark to compare it to. No one else in the family had stand out durability and we don’t even know if oven used haki to try to defend.

Honestly Niji blitzed a bunch of fodders but if you view that as impressive or incredibly powerful then be my guest, I personally do not.

I see where this is headed as I’ve been down this road several times in the last few days here. I’m not downplaying them at all, the technology just does not have amazing showings against competent fighters. Hax to me is something like gamma knife being able to one shot many high tiers who don’t have hax of their own to counter it or something like parasite which many characters who aren’t a ton weaker than doflamingo legitimately cannot deal with if they don’t have prior knowledge of his ability. Nothing Queen does falls under that classification for me personally. Anyways I didn’t really start a conversation to debate these things with you, I was simply curious about your terminology which you explained in your own words so once again, thank you for that.
 
#96
That single line contradicts the whole point of this thread. You all try to give every accomplishment Zoro has to Sanji by pure association just because they happen to be the second and third strongest respectively. If you didn’t care, you would accept Sanji’s cemented role as third strongest in the crew and whatever gap there was between their strength wouldn’t matter be it large or small. Instead you guys are adamant about them being neck and neck. That’s pure hypocrisy.
This pretty much sums up most of my thoughts about this thread.

I'm confused about what the OP's point is supposed to be...the title says "we don't care if Sanji is weaker than Zoro" but reading the thread it seems like you're just saying Sanji is just as strong as Zoro, Luffy is far stronger and better than them at everything, and that people should stop downplaying Sanji
 
#97
This pretty much sums up most of my thoughts about this thread.

I'm confused about what the OP's point is supposed to be...the title says "we don't care if Sanji is weaker than Zoro" but reading the thread it seems like you're just saying Sanji is just as strong as Zoro, Luffy is far stronger and better than them at everything, and that people should stop downplaying Sanji
Basically… seems like a pointless thread to me or at the very least, a confused one.
 
#98
This pretty much sums up most of my thoughts about this thread.

I'm confused about what the OP's point is supposed to be...the title says "we don't care if Sanji is weaker than Zoro" but reading the thread it seems like you're just saying Sanji is just as strong as Zoro, Luffy is far stronger and better than them at everything, and that people should stop downplaying Sanji
They are just sobbing internally probably
 
#99
If you guys didn’t care that Sanji was weaker then you wouldn’t be saying things like:

That single line contradicts the whole point of this thread. You all try to give every accomplishment Zoro has to Sanji by pure association just because they happen to be the second and third strongest respectively. If you didn’t care, you would accept Sanji’s cemented role as third strongest in the crew and whatever gap there was between their strength wouldn’t matter be it large or small. Instead you guys are adamant about them being neck and neck. That’s pure hypocrisy.
It's fine, this thread went over a lot of people's heads. If everybody got it then the forum wouldn't have been so toxic and I would never had to make the thread. I'm also use to Gen z not understanding basic human concepts and relying on sensationalism. "Hurr durr you care because you said you didn't care." It's funny I haven't looked at this forum in 24 hours and there's 50 post telling me how obsessed I am with Sanji vs Zoro:lmao
 
It's fine, this thread went over a lot of people's heads. If everybody got it then the forum wouldn't have been so toxic and I would never had to make the thread. I'm also use to Gen z not understanding basic human concepts and relying on sensationalism. "Hurr durr you care because you said you didn't care." It's funny I haven't looked at this forum in 24 hours and there's 50 post telling me how obsessed I am with Sanji vs Zoro:lmao
You only have yourself to blame for being contradictory, don’t cry about it now when you get called out on your blatant hypocrisy. Grow up son, you’re clearly way too invested in this shit.
 
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