Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 971: Sentenced to Boil

[ImmaIvanoM]

he's turning Wano into a weapons developer, opening new factories in Kuri

Oden didn't react to Orochi saying anything about Factories remember. Orochi said he's making factories and wants Oden's help and then steps on Oden even and oden shows no signs of being shocked by this. He just asks about the ships and then Oden gets upset

Also remember, Orochi has HIS OWN OTHER DEAL with Kaido. They aren't like just friends or anything. The old hag said orochi gets backing FOR MAKING WEAPONS. Kaido would have kept backing him if he had no weapons. Like what exactly was Kaido doing for five years then if he wasn't gaining anything from wano. Why did he fight Moriah in that time for a place that's providing him with nothing.
Orochi had been in cahoots with Kaido for Three years already at that point and the factories were there at minimum for one year. The narrator said Nothing changed. He didn't say things went back to how they were three years ago. He said NOTHING CHANGED.

 

[Rmstorm]

If i was Oden why in the world would i trust the man ( and his pirate ally) who admits to my face that he screw the country over with lies, killing my own father in the process, and repeatedly attempting to go after the life of my Wife/Children. Why would i ever even come close to have some kind of verbal contract with that person ?

That just sounds so dumb to me, really.

People are going to die, yes, likely even innocent people, but instead of letting the enemy gear up for 5 years while i humiliate myself in the streets, having the people that admired me before lose faith in me.....

You said it yourself, Oden could've went to War 5 years later anyways, so War was still an option in Oden's mind, right?
Why then waste the initiative of rallying up Hyo and his forces to beat down an enemy that was far weaker at that time ?

I know that you're one of the most level headed users here, but this entire Oden/Orochi, Kaidou fiasco + Oden's decisions...i just don't get behind it.

Vivi made the same mistake in Alabasta but had Luffy point put how flawed the thinking of Vivi and Oden were.

 

[dirtyLarry]

What many also don't really understand: One major reason that factored in Oden's decision was Orochi telling him his backstory and how he and his family have been defamed and persecuted for their entire life (only because their granddad commited a sin). Oden also decided to take the deal as a kind of apology to Orochi and his family.
Pity that the later was indeed a great villain and betrayed him.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

You can care about people, like your country and still leave for a few years. I personally did it and I'm still leaving far away rn. It doesn't mean I don't care about the people I left behind.
He had to make a choice, go to war and lose a lot of people, maybe even see wano and his inhabitants being destroyed and killed entirely since orochi doesn't care at all about wano and his people, or lose his dignity and save wano and his people. He chose wrong, he's not the first one to make mistake and won't be the last one.

That's the thing, he not only CHOSE WRONG but even the very concept of making this deal is ridiculous.

Orochi juust five minutes ago had said he actively killed Oden's father and took his throne and was an avtual psychopath killing men women and children just for the sake AND ODEN MADE A DEAL WITH HIM??? I do not understand how a person could hear this story and still say to themselves "this guy is worth making deals with".

I don't know man, maybe I'm projecting here and I'm just the type of of person who could not be this dumb but I also don't see how Oda has shown us that Oden literally could know how evil Orochi is and think "Maybe he's a mass murdering psychopath who killed my father but he's very fair to keep his word"

This is like Nami and arlong level shit wyh Nami believing in Arlong's deal but the difference is that Nami was fucking 8 years old and she's weak as fuck... You know what, for my own sanity I should maybe just ignore this and let Oda do whatever he wants

 

[Garp the Fist]

Oden didn't react to Orochi saying anything about Factories remember. Orochi said he's making factories and wants Oden's help and then steps on Oden even and oden shows no signs of being shocked by this. He just asks about the ships and then Oden gets upset

He does react to Orochi. He says "but, Shogun, what of the ships?" So he's questioning the opening of a weapons factory instead of more ship work. Then after Orochi says "Wano will be a weapons producer" we get the spiky speech bubble from Oden with ...?! in it, which is used to denote shock.

Also remember, Orochi has HIS OWN OTHER DEAL with Kaido. They aren't like just friends or anything. The old hag said orochi gets backing FOR MAKING WEAPONS. Kaido would have kept backing him if he had no weapons. Like what exactly was Kaido doing for five years then if he wasn't gaining anything from wano. Why did he fight Moriah in that time for a place that's providing him with nothing.

He was still gaining ships. Something quite important to a Kaido, who was only growing his forces in this time. Those five years would have gave Kaido an armada which he must not have had before. That armada would then be used to conquer islands and become an Emperor.

The narrator said Nothing changed. He didn't say things went back to how they were three years ago. He said NOTHING CHANGED.

The speech is talking about the five years of Oden dancing. That's very clear from reading the whole thing, not just picking the one panel.

 

[Luffy is the mc]

That's the thing, he not only CHOSE WRONG but even the very concept of making this deal is ridiculous.

Orochi juust five minutes ago had said he actively killed Oden's father and took his throne and was an avtual psychopath killing men women and children just for the sake AND ODEN MADE A DEAL WITH HIM??? I do not understand how a person could hear this story and still say to themselves "this guy is worth making deals with".

I don't know man, maybe I'm projecting here and I'm just the type of of person who could not be this dumb but I also don't see how Oda has shown us that Oden literally could know how evil Orochi is and think "Maybe he's a mass murdering psychopath who killed my father but he's very fair to keep his word"

This is like Nami and arlong level shit wyh Nami believing in Arlong's deal but the difference is that Nami was fucking 8 years old and she's weak as fuck... You know what, for my own sanity I should maybe just ignore this and let Oda do whatever he wants

We just see things differently. That's alright. For me he made a big mistake, that's it. It happens. Everybody's got the right to be a sucker once.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

He does react to Orochi. He says "but, Shogun, what of the ships?" So he's questioning the opening of a weapons factory instead of more ship work. Then after Orochi says "Wano will be a weapons producer" we get the spiky speech bubble from Oden with ...?! in it, which is used to denote shock.


He was still gaining ships. Something quite important to a Kaido, who was only growing his forces in this time. Those five years would have gave Kaido an armada which he must not have had before. That armada would then be used to conquer islands and become an Emperor.



The speech is talking about the five years of Oden dancing. That's very clear from reading the whole thing, not just picking the one panel.

First of all, the narrator specficially says "In the fifth year, Orochi made his MOVE ON KURI". This is directly implying that this occasion is in succession of something and is marked by KURI. This happened already elsewhere and in the fifth year it's highlighted that the move was now made on kuri.
Also again, we see a reaction on Oden's face when the factories are mentioned and then when the Ships are mentioned. If he was so vehemently protesting factories then he would have an actual reaction immeditely to the thing he was supposedly protesting.

Secondly the panel said "Nothing in WANO changed". So yes, nothing in the country Wano changed.

Thirdly, Kaido was lying remember. He didn't care about ships. That was the point. Are you saying that the thing he was lying about doing is the actual thing he was gaining? Kaido came to Wano for weapons right? He already knows how to procure ships and even then it's not hard to actually make ships. He was in Wano for five years afer the fith year he only had 1000 men meaning he had LESS THAN THAT five years ago. Are you saying that he ceases his business interests to make ships for his less than 1000 men for FIVE FREAKING YEARS?

C'Mon man

 

[Garp the Fist]

First of all, the narrator specficially says "In the fifth year, Orochi made his MOVE ON KURI". This is directly implying that this occasion is in succession of something and is marked by KURI. This happened already elsewhere and in the fifth year it's highlighted that the move was now made on kuri.

Nope, does not imply, at all, that Orochi had done this elsewhere in Wano. It just means... he made his move on Kuri. If I was talking about Hitler's rise to power and the beginning of WWII and said "after six years as leader, Hitler made his move on Austria" that would not somehow imply he'd made moves on other nations in the six years prior.

Secondly the panel said "Nothing in WANO changed". So yes, nothing in the country Wano changed.

And again, that speech is very clearly talking about Wano in the years of dancing Oden. It's what starts the whole narration. The three(?) years of Orochi's power before it have nothing to do with what the narrator said. Otherwise we'd be talking about how for seven years in Wano nothing changed, not four.

Thirdly, Kaido was lying remember. He didn't care about ships. That was the point. Are you saying that the thing he was lying about doing is the actual thing he was gaining?

Kaido was lying about leaving Wano. Not about wanting to use its workforce to build for him.

Kaido came to Wano for weapons right? He already knows how to procure ships and even then it's not hard to actually make ships. He was in Wano for five years afer the fith year he only had 1000 men meaning he had LESS THAN THAT five years ago. Are you saying that he ceases his business interests to make ships for his less than 1000 men for FIVE FREAKING YEARS?

It's not that hard to make weapons either. In fact... it's a hell of a lot easier.

What you're saying doesn't work either way. I can just as easily say "are you telling me he ceases his buisness interest to make weapons for his less than 1000 men for FIVE FREAKING YEARS?" Cause... that's what you are saying. And it makes way less sense, cause it's a hell of a lot more difficult, and takes a hell of a lot more manpower, to build a fleet of ships than it does to arm 1000 men.

And, in a world that's 90% water with ships being the main way to travel, think you're really selling short the importance of having an island base of skilled craftsmen to build up a fleet before you go off to conquer the world.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Nope, does not imply, at all, that Orochi had done this elsewhere in Wano. It just means... he made his move on Kuri. If I was talking about Hitler's rise to power and the beginning of WWII and said "after six years as leader, Hitler made his move on Austria" that would not somehow imply he'd made moves on other nations in the six years prior.


And again, that speech is very clearly talking about Wano in the years of dancing Oden. It's what starts the whole narration. The three(?) years of Orochi's power before it have nothing to do with what the narrator said. Otherwise we'd be talking about how for seven years in Wano nothing changed, not four.


Kaido was lying about leaving Wano. Not about wanting to use its workforce to build for him.


It's not that hard to make weapons either. In fact... it's a hell of a lot easier.

What you're saying doesn't work either way. I can just as easily say "are you telling me he ceases his buisness interest to make weapons for his less than 1000 men for FIVE FREAKING YEARS?" Cause... that's what you are saying. And it makes way less sense, cause it's a hell of a lot more difficult, and takes a hell of a lot more manpower, to build a fleet of ships than it does to arm 1000 men.

And, in a world that's 90% water with ships being the main way to travel, think you're really selling short the importance of having an island base of skilled craftsmen to build up a fleet before you go off to conquer the world.

For god sake HIS BUSINESS INTERESTS ARE THE WRAPONS

you are making up an entirely new motivation for the man just for this argument. Trade works in specifiic ways. He wants weapons, he creates a Newtork of manufacturing and distrubiting weapons and then he gets ships??? What the fuck are you talking about man?

Wano weapons and craftsmen were literally highlighted as far as Dressrosa with shy like Liquor iron ore and all these Meito swords coming from Wano. They are so far the leading weapon manufacturers on the planet. Kaido sees this opportitinty prepares a business contract and strategy and Starts making ships? When Fuckin Water seven exists? That could y that has lasted 1000 years making seesevemhips and cornering the market and has ancient ship builder families and techniques and is so influential in this regard that Both pirates and marines get their ships made there and WG can't even protest this? And then Kaido after setting up his entire weapons operation to corner an untapped market, he fuckin pivots to ships because of course he somehow has the means to compete in this market without any preparations.

Geez, okay I know I'm ranting about some something relatively trivial here but its actually piss in me off how you are just making this up and not even saying "probably" or "maybe" or "theory" even though it literally makes no sense and hasn't been a thing at all.

ShIt I'm getting pissed. I disagree again with the other points you made but i'll stop replying here for a bit to calm down. Let's agree to disagree

 

[Dark Hound]

This chapter made almost everyone respect shinobu now before this she was trashed...Goda

#MakeShinobuThinAgain

 

[ShadyOjiro]

#MakeShinobuThinAgain

You know there's a surgeon who can do that in Wano.



Shinobu x Law

 

[Zenos7]

Oden didn't react to Orochi saying anything about Factories remember. Orochi said he's making factories and wants Oden's help and then steps on Oden even and oden shows no signs of being shocked by this. He just asks about the ships and then Oden gets upset

He does react to Orochi. He says "but, Shogun, what of the ships?" So he's questioning the opening of a weapons factory instead of more ship work. Then after Orochi says "Wano will be a weapons producer" we get the spiky speech bubble from Oden with ...?! in it, which is used to denote shock.

Spoiler

Orochi wanting to build factories in kuri is seemingly a breach of the deal, which apparently leads oden to ask about the ship

 

[Monet]

Everyone praising oden, but no one talk about how 9 akazaya followed thier lord to his death without any hesitation

I'm sorry kikonoju for doubting you as traitor you are true man

 

[ShadyOjiro]

I feel that Toki knew that all of this should happen.

Only in 20 years the Wano borders will be opened.

Oden death....was part of it .

 

[Grumpy Zoro]

lol Oda tried to make us think this Orochi betrayal was something out of this world bad

In reality Orochi was just making smart plays while Oden kept going full retard...like im not even mad at Orochi here... dude just outworked Oden at every step

Instead of me having deep hate for Orochi i gained some respect for him while Oden lost a ton in my eyes

 

[Zenos7]

I'm sorry kikonoju for doubting you as traitor you are true man

 

[Chrono]

Everyone praising oden, but no one talk about how 9 akazaya followed thier lord to his death without any hesitation

I'm sorry kikonoju for doubting you as traitor you are true man

 

[Ice devil slayer]

Orochi became such a great character, cant believe i'm saying that
He's way better than Kaido atm

 

[ShadyOjiro]

lol Oda tried to make us think this Orochi betrayal was something out of this world bad

In reality Orochi was just making smart plays while Oden kept going full retard...like im not even mad at Orochi here... dude just outworked Oden at every step

Instead of me having deep hate for Orochi i gained some respect for him while Oden lost a ton in my eyes

She learn it from the old witch .

 

[Chrono]

Orochi became such a great character, cant believe i'm saying that
He's way better than Kaido atm

Orochi is the best Wano character. Periodt.

Oda always loves making the wacky characters competent. Perospero, Apoo and Orochi are all Kings !!!