Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 971: Sentenced to Boil

[dirtyLarry]

Wano was the same shit hole it was from before the agreement.

Just because people weren't being kidnapped doesn't change the fact that people were starving on the brink of death, being forced to work in the mines Orochi continued to build and how people were executed if they refused. No to mention the damage to the environment this was all causing which led to the poison issues found in the present day.

Oden's dance did very little to help the people of Wano. It saved them from being kidnapped and kept in the castle, in comparison to their ordinary lives of being forced to work like slaves, with hardly any food whilst the country suffered.

People weren't killed on purpose anymore and there were no more kidnappings.
Yes, circumstances were less than ideal for quite a lot of them, but in Oden's mind that was ok, since it would be all over in five years (if not, he knew he would have to go to war anyway).

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Wonder how they met

This is officially the only other mysterybi need solved now. I no longer care about why opening the borders is important or Toki and her past or whatever the fuck else.

Let's just get how Kaido and Orochi got together and then we can into the war and end this arc

 

[dizzy2341]

Well...Hyogoro's wife's death set off the current chain of events. So, when bloodshed occurred, Oden took action.

This doesn't make Oden's actions any less idiotic.

People weren't killed on purpose anymore and there were no more kidnappings.
Yes, circumstances were less than ideal for quite a lot of them, but in Oden's mind that was ok, since it would be all over in five years (if not, he knew he would have to go to war anyway).

People were killed if they refused to work in the mines. We know about this from before the agreement. We are told that "Nothing changed in Wano" after the agreement, and then we are shown that 16 people were killed anyways, indicating that people were still being killed all over Wano if they were to refuse to work.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Man I love Orochi with every new nugget of info we get on him. The only good part of the flashback, IMO. I care little for Oden or any scabbard not called Kin’emon. They could all roast.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

. The only good part of the flashback, IMO

Add on White beard and Roger and we are in agreement

 

[dirtyLarry]

People were killed if they refused to work in the mines. We know about this from before the agreement. We are told that "Nothing changed in Wano" after the agreement, and then we are shown that 16 people were killed anyways, indicating that people were still being killed all over Wano if they were to refuse to work.

The notion "nothing changed in Wano" refers to Oden's ongoing dancing and the citizens attitude towards him. We also learned this chapter that Oden himself confirmed the well-being of the citizens every time he danced.

The death of those 16 has nothing to do with "not wanting to work". They tried to go up against Orochi, when he laid hand on Hyo.
It was actually also the turning point and major reason why Oden finally decided to go to war. If anything it heavily suggests that no killings etc. happened during those five years.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

The notion "nothing changed in Wano" refers to Oden's ongoing dancing and the citizens attitude towards him. We also learned this chapter that Oden himself confirmed the well-being of the citizens every time he danced.

The death of those 16 has nothing to do with "not wanting to work". They tried to go up against Orochi, when he laid hand on Hyo.
It was actually also the turning point and major reason why Oden finally decided to go to war. If anything it heavily suggests that no killings etc. happened during those five years.

And the factories? Are you saying when Orochi arrived to make a new factory in kuri, that was literally the first time he had ever made a factory in five years? Is that what you are saying?

Or are you saying the factories were being made but somehow the working conditions had been improved to the point that no one was dying and there was no pollution and the economy was booming from all the international trading?

 

[Luffy is the mc]

Nice to see that some people appreciate oden for what he is. He isn't supposed to be perfect. Nobody is.
He made a mistake and is paying the price but can we enjoy this badassness. The man can stop showing off his feats.
He sacrificed his dignity and pretty much everything for the sake of his people, how many people can do that?
Not a loser in my book.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Look at Kaido's stance, and legs....
He looks like some biker **** that has skipped his leg days :ROFLMAO:

Dafuq Oda even Nami has better legs.

 

[dizzy2341]

The notion "nothing changed in Wano" refers to Oden's ongoing dancing and the citizens attitude towards him. We also learned this chapter that Oden himself confirmed the well-being of the citizens every time he danced.

No... "nothing changed in Wano", refers to the fact that...nothing had changed in Wano...Hence why they called him an idiot, because they were suffering whilst he was prancing around naked.

The death of those 16 has nothing to do with "not wanting to work". They tried to go up against Orochi, when he laid hand on Hyo.
It was actually also the turning point and major reason why Oden finally decided to go to war. If anything it heavily suggests that no killings etc. happened during those five years.

They tried to go against Orochi because Hyoguro refused to cooperate regarding the mines...Orochi acted as if this was normal, suggesting it certainly wasn't the first. Oden didn't even have a clue that this had happened, so great checking he was doing.

 

[ShadyOjiro]

Well. The scabbards survived.

A country could have been saved ...

Just saying...

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2020

Exactly.

Oden's thought process is pretty comprehensible. Fighting against Kaido, the barrier-man, Orochi and the clone-witch would've more than likely resulted in his defeat on the spot. Breaking an oath is totally out of character and even if he did, Oden knew a direct war would've caused thousands over thousands of civil casualities, while their chance of success would still be only 50% at best.

So he begrudgingly took the deal, believing they would honor the contract when he only embarasses himself for 5 years (he gave a shit about his reputation anyway). Since the hostages were released and he checked on all the provinces, not noting anything suspicious, he obviously thought even more that they would indeed leave Wano after 5 years.

He would've solved everything without any casualities by just playing a fool for 5 years. Unfortunately we know what happened.

He checked all the provinces?

You have the panel?

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2020

Can't think of a scenario where Oden is fooled again and be like "oh no, I fell for them again". Oden must have planned something.

Which included the dead of Hyo wife?

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Nice to see that some people appreciate oden for what he is. He isn't supposed to be perfect. Nobody is.
He made a mistake and is paying the price but can we enjoy this badassness. The man can stop showing off his feats.
He sacrificed his dignity and pretty much everything for the sake of his people, how many people can do that?
Not a loser in my book.

But we've seen character in flashbacks sacrifice themselves for others and entire nations and make mistakes and die unceremoniously. For example Hiruluk. His mistake was that he actually never knew jack shy about real medicine. He died to save the doctors of the country and his dream was to heal his country. He died unceremoniously but tried to make it as bad as as possible by trying blow up Wapol. He even inspired people from his death like Chopper, Dolton and Kureha similar to how Oden inspired loyalty after dying.

So why is Oden the one people have a problem with? Let me be more specific, the one I MYSELF have a problem with. Simple. This story isn't told well enough to justify all these plot points I just listed. I don't buy Oden's mistake because it's ridiculously naive for him to keep making these random deal with people who are obviously evil. I don't buy that he necessarily cared all that much for his country given the five ears he let go by as the country was being polluted. His dream to open the borders of the country DOESN'T MATTER IN ANYWAY SO FAR since Oda has decided to make it a mystery and it doesn't factor into any of the plot points going on right now. His unceremonious death seems to be more of a plot necessity at this point than an actual tragedy. The people he inspired are mostly cardboard cut outs of things you could call characters since they literally haven't done anything in this flashback and are barely fleshed out even the present day story.

So there. Oda can recycle plot points that worked before but that doesn't meat he executed the same plot points well.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2020

He checked all the provinces?

You have the panel?

There's a panel saying he did but the meaning is what is odd. Was he checking for people getting kidnapped or something? Because the factories wrre definitely still being constructed all over

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Add on White beard and Roger and we are in agreement

I was always indifferent on Roger but this flashback actually made me despise him.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

I was always indifferent on Roger but this flashback actually made me despise him.

I mean you don't have to like his character per se but surely just seeing the Pirate king in action is worth something... I mean the man's a legend

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

I mean you don't have to like his character per se but surely just seeing the Pirate king in action is worth something... I mean the man's a legend

Why would seeing him be exciting when he’s underwhelming in action Andy personality? At least Whitebeard has a cool demeanor and we’ve seen him plenty before. Roger is just the pirate king, who acts like a fool and has nothing interesting tackled during this flashback.

 

[Garp the Fist]

It already took a whole volume
Volumes are usually 12 chapters or 13

Flashbacks started at the end of 958 ,

Yeah, but the first couple of chapters in this flashback took place in the last few chapters of Volume 95. If this flashback takes another three chapters, it's the entirety of Volume 96.

Volumes also are usually ten chapters now.

Wano was the same shit hole it was from before the agreement.

Just because people weren't being kidnapped doesn't change the fact that people were starving on the brink of death, being forced to work in the mines Orochi continued to build and how people were executed if they refused. No to mention the damage to the environment this was all causing which led to the poison issues found in the present day.

Oden's dance did very little to help the people of Wano. It saved them from being kidnapped and kept in the castle, in comparison to their ordinary lives of being forced to work like slaves, with hardly any food whilst the country suffered.

This is something I think needs to be expanded on by Oda, but I don't think what you're saying is right.

What causes Oden, after five years, to attack Orochi and Kaido? Orochi revealing that
-he's turning Wano into a weapons developer, opening new factories in Kuri
-he "doesn't remember" any promise about ships
-he attacks Hyo and his men

Oden going after Orochi only after he does this suggests that, in the five years previous, there has been no new factories opened and Orochi has not attacked any of the people of Wano. There are no abuses shown after Oden makes his agreement.

The "four years and nothing has changed in Wano" quote is talking about Oden dancing week after week. That's the moment from which the narrator starts his countdown, and it's what the entire narrators speech is about.

And Shinobu's speech, even with the translation being quite poor, is clearly saying that Oden's actions have protected the people of Wano without them knowing it. And that he was deliberately going through Wano, week in week out, checking in on everywhere and making sure they were safe

Now, the people of Wano must obviously still have made to build ships. But I think it's clear from context that in the five years where Oden was dancing, life for the people of Wano was better. Not amazing- I imagine they were still poor. That's where the resentment comes- from their perspective, then are still working for Orochi, and Oden's doing nothing.

But it does not make any sense that people of Wano were being beaten, starved or killed under Oden's watch. That goes contrary to everything shown this chapter.

So what Oda should have done is actually show the change. Have like a scene of one of Kaido's guards about to hit a citizen, then stop himself for an unknown reason.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

underwhelming in action

Good god, not even him low diffing Oden and that ridiculous clash with White beard swayed you.

Well damn I can't say anything if those were underwhelming to you

 

[Thabeast]

Oden was so naive, shit. But a man will often abandon reason when threat is to his loved ones, you can call it dumb or whatever but that is just how a man works...

 

[Luffy is the mc]

But we've seen character in flashbacks sacrifice themselves for others and entire nations and make mistakes and die unceremoniously. For example Hiruluk. His mistake was that he actually never knew jack shy about real medicine. He died to save the doctors of the country and his dream was to heal his country. He died unceremoniously but tried to make it as bad as as possible by trying blow up Wapol. He even inspired people from his death like Chopper, Dolton and Kureha similar to how Oden inspired loyalty after dying.

So why is Oden the one people have a problem with? Let me be more specific, the one I MYSELF have a problem with. Simple. This story isn't told well enough to justify all these plot points I just listed. I don't buy Oden's mistake because it's ridiculously naive for him to keep making these random deal with people who are obviously evil. I don't buy that he necessarily cared all that much for his country given the five ears he let go by as the country was being polluted. His dream to open the borders of the country DOESN'T MATTER IN ANYWAY SO FAR since Oda has decided to make it a mystery and it doesn't factor into any of the plot points going on right now. His unceremonious death seems to be more of a plot necessity at this point than an actual tragedy. The people he inspired are mostly cardboard cut outs of things you could call characters since they literally haven't done anything in this flashback and are barely fleshed out even the present day story.

So there. Oda can recycle plot points that worked before but that doesn't meat he executed the same plot points well.

Post automatically merged: Feb 14, 2020

There's a panel saying he did but the meaning is what is odd. Was he checking for people getting kidnapped or something? Because the factories wrre definitely still being constructed all over

You can care about people, like your country and still leave for a few years. I personally did it and I'm still leaving far away rn. It doesn't mean I don't care about the people I left behind.
He had to make a choice, go to war and lose a lot of people, maybe even see wano and his inhabitants being destroyed and killed entirely since orochi doesn't care at all about wano and his people, or lose his dignity and save wano and his people. He chose wrong, he's not the first one to make mistake and won't be the last one.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Good god, not even him low diffing Oden and that ridiculous clash with White beard swayed you.

Well damn I can't say anything if those were underwhelming to you

It was pretty nebulous. A clash between a character I have no reason to care about and someone I’m just alright on isn’t interesting. Factor in no interesting DF powers or fighting styles? It won’t get my goat.