General & Others Oden was a shit leader and deserved to die

[Monkey D Theories]

He was literal trash.

Imagine if someone invaded your country and the leader of your country, instead of rightfully demanding the sovereignty of your nation, decided to, essentially, make a deal with your nation's usurpers which did nothing but strengthen their hold over your country. In essence, what if the leader of your country sacrificed the lives of everyone in your nation for the lives of 100 people and ultimately lead to the rise of a tyrannical dictatorship.

All in spite of him being strong enough to possibly defeat your nation's invaders as well as being allies with some of the strongest military forces on earth. Not only would such a person be considered a bad leader, they would be borderline treasonous.

No matter what angle I look at it, Oden was an utterly incompetent leader who was unfit to be Shogun. In fact, I would go as far to say that his death was caused by his own incompetence and that it is actually his own fault. Was he a good guy? Yes, but the fact of the matter is that his actions led to the subjugation of the wano-ese people for 20, long, years.

Yes, Oden did save 100 people, but this pales in comparison to the number of people Kaido would have had enslaved, murdered, and starved during his reign. He also didn't prevent the war, he merely delayed it and allowed it to turn into a bigger conflict which will surely have more civilian casualties than a war started during an earlier time. Now Kaido is a yonko, his army is far stronger, and he has allied with big mom.

And it doesn't matter that Oden "didn't know" that Orochi would betray him. Orochi is a literal madman and he is partners with Kaido, a literal pirate. Why would Oden believe any of these people? In addition, even if they were telling the truth, in what country would a sane ruler allow their nation to be usurped by terroristic pirates? As leader, Oden should have defended Wano's sovereignty and he failed to do this because he thought it would be better to stick to his "moral code,"than make tough decisions that could result in the loss of innocent life, tough decisions that almost every leader makes.

Fucking imagine if Churchill let hitler conquer Britain because he was afraid that starting a war could lead to British people dying.

Oden might not have been the worst leader in wano, but honestly, he comes right under Orochi and Kaido in terms of damage done to the country.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

He was literal trash.

Imagine if someone invaded your country and the leader of your country, instead of rightfully demanding the sovereignty of your nation, decided to, essentially, make a deal with your nation's usurpers which did nothing but strengthen their hold over your country. In essence, what if the leader of your country sacrificed the lives of everyone in your nation for the lives of 100 people and ultimately lead to the rise of a tyrannical dictatorship.

All in spite of him being strong enough to possibly defeat your nation's invaders as well as being allies with some of the strongest military forces on earth. Not only would such a person be considered a bad leader, they would be borderline treasonous.

No matter what angle I look at it, Oden was an utterly incompetent leader who was unfit to be Shogun. In fact, I would go as far to say that his death was caused by his own incompetence and that it is actually his own fault. Was he a good guy? Yes, but the fact of the matter is that his actions led to the subjugation of the wano-ese people for 20, long, years.

Yes, Oden did save 100 people, but this pales in comparison to the number of people Kaido would have had enslaved, murdered, and starved during his reign. He also didn't prevent the war, he merely delayed it and allowed it to turn into a bigger conflict which will surely have more civilian casualties than a war started during an earlier time. Now Kaido is a yonko, his army is far stronger, and he has allied with big mom.

And it doesn't matter that Oden "didn't know" that Orochi would betray him. Orochi is a literal madman and he is partners with Kaido, a literal pirate. Why would Oden believe any of these people? In addition, even if they were telling the truth, in what country would a sane ruler allow their nation to be usurped by terroristic pirates? As leader, Oden should have defended Wano's sovereignty and he failed to do this because he thought it would be better to stick to his "moral code,"than make tough decisions that could result in the loss of innocent life, tough decisions that almost every leader makes.

Fucking imagine if Churchill let hitler conquer Britain because he was afraid that starting a war could lead to British people dying.

Oden might not have been the worst leader in wano, but honestly, he comes right under Orochi and Kaido in terms of damage done to the country.

My boy speaking facts right here, good job man:smithnie:

 

[Eustass]

He was literal trash.

Imagine if someone invaded your country and the leader of your country, instead of rightfully demanding the sovereignty of your nation, decided to, essentially, make a deal with your nation's usurpers which did nothing but strengthen their hold over your country. In essence, what if the leader of your country sacrificed the lives of everyone in your nation for the lives of 100 people and ultimately lead to the rise of a tyrannical dictatorship.

All in spite of him being strong enough to possibly defeat your nation's invaders as well as being allies with some of the strongest military forces on earth. Not only would such a person be considered a bad leader, they would be borderline treasonous.

No matter what angle I look at it, Oden was an utterly incompetent leader who was unfit to be Shogun. In fact, I would go as far to say that his death was caused by his own incompetence and that it is actually his own fault. Was he a good guy? Yes, but the fact of the matter is that his actions led to the subjugation of the wano-ese people for 20, long, years.

Yes, Oden did save 100 people, but this pales in comparison to the number of people Kaido would have had enslaved, murdered, and starved during his reign. He also didn't prevent the war, he merely delayed it and allowed it to turn into a bigger conflict which will surely have more civilian casualties than a war started during an earlier time. Now Kaido is a yonko, his army is far stronger, and he has allied with big mom.

And it doesn't matter that Oden "didn't know" that Orochi would betray him. Orochi is a literal madman and he is partners with Kaido, a literal pirate. Why would Oden believe any of these people? In addition, even if they were telling the truth, in what country would a sane ruler allow their nation to be usurped by terroristic pirates? As leader, Oden should have defended Wano's sovereignty and he failed to do this because he thought it would be better to stick to his "moral code,"than make tough decisions that could result in the loss of innocent life, tough decisions that almost every leader makes.

Fucking imagine if Churchill let hitler conquer Britain because he was afraid that starting a war could lead to British people dying.

Oden might not have been the worst leader in wano, but honestly, he comes right under Orochi and Kaido in terms of damage done to the country.

Yes, it is dumb. I would hope for anothet reason tbh.

 

[Robin swan]

I agree oden was a terrible leader for wano... Nice enough guy but he pretty much allowed his country to fall and ruined his reputation all at the same time. Putting it nicely he should have just been a strong samurai, the strongest samurai not the leader.

 

[KiriNigiri]

Luffy put it brilliantly to Vivi during Alabasta in this one page.

Spoiler

It was clear as day Orochi and Kaido weren't going anywhere without a fight. Oden taking inaction just to prevent the deaths of just a few people wasn't gonna solve anything. As would-be Shogun of the country, his responsibility is to everyone in it, not whatever suits his morality. I wouldn't be disappointed if this were the angle Oda took with him, as it was with Vivi, but he's being painted as the sole martyr in this whole fiasco.

Shinobu's little rant at the end of the chapter left a bad taste in me. The people of Wano have every right to lose faith in Oden. He failed to inspire security and trust to them. He left them to continue his selfish desires, he comes back not doing anything. Meanwhile, people all around the country died in the mines or just the general state of the country going to waste. And we're suppose to feel bad for the guy who had the means to end it before got worse? All predicated on the idea Orochi and Kaido would live up to their side of the bargain, and let him live with a clear conscious.

 

[Longleg Larry]

He was literal trash

From beginning to end.
He completely disregarded his retainers concerns
Abandoned his country for a personal adventure only to come back with more responsiblibly for his followers
Left AGAIN, this time knowing shit was going south
Then when he finally returns for good, he's like what happened here?!?

Also sidenote; Anybody who strictly eats a food that they also share a name with is extremely full of them-self & they deserve to be boiled

 

[Eustass]

Luffy put it brilliantly to Vivi during Alabasta in this one page.

Spoiler

It was clear as day Orochi and Kaido weren't going anywhere without a fight. Oden taking inaction just to prevent the deaths of just a few people wasn't gonna solve anything. As would-be Shogun of the country, his responsibility is to everyone in it, not whatever suits his morality. I wouldn't be disappointed if this were the angle Oda took with him, as it was with Vivi, but he's being painted as the sole martyr in this whole fiasco.

Shinobu's little rant at the end of the chapter left a bad taste in me. The people of Wano have every right to lose faith in Oden. He failed to inspire security and trust to them. He left them to continue his selfish desires, he comes back not doing anything. Meanwhile, people all around the country died in the mines or just the general state of the country going to waste. And we're suppose to feel bad for the guy who had the means to end it before got worse? All predicated on the idea Orochi and Kaido would live up to their side of the bargain, and let him live with a clear conscious.

Oda failed us

 

[dizzy2341]

100% correct.

Oden provided Orochi with funds and enabled him to take a hold on Wano by abandoning the country for his own selfish wants. Even after Oden returned to the country and saw the state it was in, whilst he was with literally the strongest crew, instead of squashing everything in a few hours (all that it would've taken with Rogers crew's help at best), he let it fester and grow, abandoning his people yet again.

He finally returns and at this point it is still totally salvageable, but because Oden was so hopelessly moronic he managed to fumble his chance completely and let the problem grow for 5 whole years.

Without a doubt Oden would be a horrific leader. This wasn't just a single mistake, this was a whole chain of mistakes which could've been prevented at multiple stages had Oden just been a bit smarter than a brick.

Because of Oden countless people have died, the country has gone to shit, and immense damage was done to Wano for over 20 years. An utter disgrace and the fact that he's celebrated like some sort of hero is beyond laughable.

Worst character in One Piece for a very long time.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Even Kinnemon would have proved to be better Shogun for Wano.

 

[Jew D. Boy]

This is why I want Toki to be alive so badly, because the emotional impact of Oden’s sacrifice diminishes more and more as this flashback goes on. He missed so many opportunities to do fucking ANYTHING to bring Orochi/Kaido down that it’s truly unforgivable; having Toki enter the storyline would allow him a modicum of redemption by proxy, because if there isn’t anything left unsaid/unseen about him, then he might be one of the greatest villains in this series.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

100% correct.

Oden provided Orochi with funds and enabled him to take a hold on Wano by abandoning the country for his own selfish wants. Even after Oden returned to the country and saw the state it was in, whilst he was with literally the strongest crew, instead of squashing everything in a few hours (all that it would've taken with Rogers crew's help at best), he let it fester and grow, abandoning his people yet again.

He finally returns and at this point it is still totally salvageable, but because Oden was so hopelessly moronic he managed to fumble his chance completely and let the problem grow for 5 whole years.

Without a doubt Oden would be a horrific leader. This wasn't just a single mistake, this was a whole chain of mistakes which could've been prevented at multiple stages had Oden just been a bit smarter than a brick.

Because of Oden countless people have died, the country has gone to shit, and immense damage was done to Wano for over 20 years. An utter disgrace and the fact that he's celebrated like some sort of hero is beyond laughable.

Worst character in One Piece for a very long time.

I don't think he is necessarily a bad character


It could be that Oda wrote Oden as an incompetent fool, with Luffy being the more emotionally mature version of Oden. Perhaps Oda will have Luffy be put in a similar situation as Oden in order to highlight the difference between the two

 

[dizzy2341]

I don't think he is necessarily a bad character


It could be that Oda wrote Oden as an incompetent fool, with Luffy being the more emotionally mature version of Oden. Perhaps Oda will have Luffy be put in a similar situation as Oden in order to highlight the difference between the two

I think he's a terrible character because this is not the perception we're supposed to have of Oden.

We're supposed to come away thinking that Oden was some amazing hero that was saving Wano. This chapter literally tries to make it a point that people who think Oden is an idiot, are in fact the idiots themselves. However the writing shows the total opposite and so his character completely flops.

That's not even considering how Oden before this chapter was just a generic impulsive tough guy with no weight who likes adventure.

It could be that Oda wrote Oden as an incompetent fool, with Luffy being the more emotionally mature version of Oden. Perhaps Oda will have Luffy be put in a similar situation as Oden in order to highlight the difference between the two

Perhaps, but I doubt that's the case. This chapter was all about glorifying Oden and proclaiming him as this hero figure. Hence why the character gets wanked at every single chance, with even Luffy commenting on how Oden was amazing.

His actions are supposed to be praised, despite the fact that they're utterly retarded.

 

[Monkey D Theories]

Spoiler

Honestly, maybe that's what Oda was trying to get at with this scene from Udon. Oden had essentially accepted the mentality of the prisoners, that it'd be better to live as a slave than try to fight kaido and have people die.

Luffy was faced with insurmountable odds, the gap between him and Kaido was/is likely far greater than the gap between Oden and Kaido 20 years ago. Kaido's forces are far stronger now. And yet, Luffy is willing to take him on, knowing full well that his crew could die.

Post automatically merged: Feb 15, 2020

I think he's a terrible character because this is not the perception we've supposed to have of Oden.

We've supposed to come away thinking that Oden was some amazing hero that was saving Wano. This chapter literally tries to make it a point that people who think Oden is an idiot, are in fact the idiots themselves. However the writing shows the total opposite and so his character completely flops.

That's not even considering how Oden before this chapter was just a generic impulsive tough guy with no weight who likes adventure.


Perhaps, but I doubt that's the case. This chapter was all about glorifying Oden and proclaiming him as this hero figure. Hence why the character gets wanked at every single chance, with even Luffy commenting on how Oden was amazing.

His actions are supposed to be praised, despite the fact that they're utterly retarded.

honestly I have more faith in Oda than I really should

if you want my honest opinion, Boku no hero is a better manga than One piece

 

[Den_Den_Mushi]

Oden is trash.

'Saved' a bunch of hostages (who may have been enslaved, tortured or killed directly or indirectly by Orochi) only to thrust the entire country into a world of pain for 25 years during which THOUSANDS of innocent people would've died from poisoned food, overwork or the whims of Kaido's henchmen. He thought that he would really lose a war with Kaido when the samurai have been repeatedly hyped as this intimidating military force that made even Akainu hesitate? Tf?

Seriously, believing the sob story of some dude who probably assassinated Sukiyaki and deceived the Daimyos is beyond retarded. Why the fuck would Kaido and Orochi leave Wano? They have an unlimited amount of slaves, their personal skank that dances naked for money and a population too stupid or complacent to rebel. Why, why, WHY would Oden think they would leave?

The stupidity is mind-boggling.

 

[Brix]

Oden sacrificed himself and gave everything he had to save Wano and its people.

Retarded people: Yeah. He's shit and horrible character.

What Orochi did? He killed and terrorized innocent people of Wano.

Retarded people: Orochi is great. He's smart and good character.

Eww

 

[Daisuke Jigen]

 

[XGoldrogeRX]

he was great leader marked by many ppl carries his will even after his death. this man speak less but does more.willing to take blame and shame in order to save ppl. and what more is he never loses his faith and willing to sacrifice not only his life but his name and pride to the others. his society, eventhough theyre despise and hate him for entire life.

he was naive but not stupid. learn the difference.

 

[Rmstorm]

Oden sacrificed himself and gave everything he had to save Wano and its people.

Worstgen retarded members : Yeah. He's shit and horrible character.

What Orochi did? He killed and terrorized innocent people of Wano.

Worstgen retarded members : Orochi is great. He's smart and good character.

Y'all are retarded and horrible people. Ew

Do I need to spell it out to you how stupid and selfish Oden was.


Vivi was making the same mistake as Oden did in the last 5 years.

Thinking they could save everyone by themselves without people dying. Not going straight to the source.

Meanwhile, their country's people were suffering.

Unlike Oden, Vivi had Luffy to point out the flaw's in her thinking. Oden did not have Luffy to advise him, so he failed.

Luffy would never fall for the tricks Oden did. This is proven is impel Down and mairneford.

Ex Crocodile- Luffy never trusted him one bit and was proven right but Luffy caught on and prepared.


1) When Toki was dropped off in Wano, his retainers said they needed help with the problems in Wano. Even Oden could tell how bad it was

Luffy would stay, beat Orochi and Kiado in a few hours with the Roger Pirate crews help, before continuing on his journey to Raftel.


2) Oden and Vivi thought the same way and made the same mistakes. Vivi thought she could win without abyone dying, mean while more people were suffering due to her not taking out the source of the problem.

Luffy told her that way of thinking would not get her anywhere and would do more harm than good.


3) Oden was so selfish that he never accepted help, when the Roger Pirates offered to help clean up Wano and open the borders

Luffy would have accepted the help to fixing Wano's problems right away.

Bonus


4) Tricked by Orochi told when Orochi revealed all the bad he had done to Oden's family and Wano's country.

Luffy in Impel Down never forgot Crocodile or believed Crocodile when he said he would not cause any trouble or whatever lie he told.

The mistakes written above make Luffy look like Einstine compared to Oden.

 

[Brix]

Do I need to spell it out to you how stupid and selfish Oden was.


Vivi was making the same mistake as Oden did in the last 5 years.

Thinking they could save everyone by themselves without people dying. Not going straight to the source.

Meanwhile, their country's people were suffering.

Unlike Oden, Vivi had Luffy to point out the flaw's in her thinking. Oden did not have Luffy to advise him, so he failed.

Luffy would never fall for the tricks Oden did. This is proven is impel Down and mairneford.

Ex Crocodile- Luffy never trusted him one bit and was proven right but Luffy caught on and prepared.


1) When Toki was dropped off in Wano, his retainers said they needed help with the problems in Wano. Even Oden could tell how bad it was

Luffy would stay, beat Orochi and Kiado in a few hours with the Roger Pirate crews help, before continuing on his journey to Raftel.


2) Oden and Vivi thought the same way and made the same mistakes. Vivi thought she could win without abyone dying, mean while more people were suffering due to her not taking out the source of the problem.

Luffy told her that way of thinking would not get her anywhere and would do more harm than good.


3) Oden was so selfish that he never accepted help, when the Roger Pirates offered to help clean up Wano and open the borders

Luffy would have accepted the help to fixing Wano's problems right away.

Bonus


4) Tricked by Orochi told when Orochi revealed all the bad he had done to Oden's family and Wano's country.

Luffy in Impel Down never forgot Crocodile or believed Crocodile when he said he would not cause any trouble or whatever lie he told.

The mistakes written above make Luffy look like Einstine compared to Oden.

Oden was a flawed and not so smart character but he had a heart of gold and was willing to sacrifice himself to save his people.

And for that, he's a fucking legend to me.

 

[DarkWitch]

Oden sacrificed himself and gave everything he had to save Wano and its people.

Worstgen retarded members : Yeah. He's shit and horrible character.

What Orochi did? He killed and terrorized innocent people of Wano.

Worstgen retarded members : Orochi is great. He's smart and good character.

Y'all are retarded and horrible people. Ew

If Oden really wanted to save Wano and its people he wouldn't have believed Orochi's lie, and instead team up with Hyogoro and everyone else to fight back against Kaido and Orochi. Sure there may have been some deaths here and there because of the fighting but if they won and defeated both Kaido and Orochi so many more lives would have been saved and Wano wouldn't have become what it is now, also no one thinks Orochi is a good character we know that Orochi is a evil horrible person however some of us do think he is a good villain which is why some of us like him.