Character Discussion One Piece fans that mocked Naruto for destiny bull shit look like clowns now
- Thread starter EmperorKinyagi
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Guys guys guys... Until recently, One Piece never implied the chosen one. There were pieces of information that guided the reader showing the parallels between Luffy and Gold Roger, however, those parallels never implied "the chosen one". Not even Gold Roger was it implied that he was the "chosen one" so saying that the "messiah" type narrative always existed in One Piece is clearly false.
Naruto on the other hand, did contradict itself about destiny but only when the sage of six path appeared. Even during the Hokage's summit arc, when the sage of six paths was first elaborated on, it was never implied that Naruto was the messiah the world was waiting for. That didn't occur until the war arc.
So yes both mangas handled the messiah terribly. However, One Piece is doing it way worse by giving Luffy every imaginable title there is and force feeding to us whereas in Naruto, Kishimoto simplified the messiah aspect by saying "Naruto is Ashura" and "Sasuke is Indra".
Yes, exactly this. One Piece fans will jump through hoops to try and rationalize their cognitive dissonance. Luffy becoming pirate king is not the same thing as Luffy being the messiah that the whole world was waiting for which is what we have been getting in Wano.
Naruto on the other hand, did contradict itself about destiny but only when the sage of six path appeared. Even during the Hokage's summit arc, when the sage of six paths was first elaborated on, it was never implied that Naruto was the messiah the world was waiting for. That didn't occur until the war arc.
So yes both mangas handled the messiah terribly. However, One Piece is doing it way worse by giving Luffy every imaginable title there is and force feeding to us whereas in Naruto, Kishimoto simplified the messiah aspect by saying "Naruto is Ashura" and "Sasuke is Indra".
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Yes, exactly this. One Piece fans will jump through hoops to try and rationalize their cognitive dissonance. Luffy becoming pirate king is not the same thing as Luffy being the messiah that the whole world was waiting for which is what we have been getting in Wano.
Destiny is not the problem Kinyagi.
For one, people always use a specific definition for destiny, namely someone or something really putting everything in place with their power, and making individuals basically not sovereign of their own destiny.
But another definition always was prevalent in OP, namely that someone based on the circumstances of his upbringing, his personality, his experiences, his environment and so forth, is destined to do something.
And that has been Luffy, his road to PK relied on his experiences with Shanks, the dream he developed, his personality and everything that has been connected with it (determination, charm...).
That´s what chapter 100 articulates very well, people connected with the ebb and flow of times, thus circumstances, are always destined to certain things.
For one, people always use a specific definition for destiny, namely someone or something really putting everything in place with their power, and making individuals basically not sovereign of their own destiny.
But another definition always was prevalent in OP, namely that someone based on the circumstances of his upbringing, his personality, his experiences, his environment and so forth, is destined to do something.
And that has been Luffy, his road to PK relied on his experiences with Shanks, the dream he developed, his personality and everything that has been connected with it (determination, charm...).
That´s what chapter 100 articulates very well, people connected with the ebb and flow of times, thus circumstances, are always destined to certain things.
Maybe my opinion will change the more Oda reveals stuff about the will of D, but I feel like Luffy isn't really a good messiah figure.
Like in Dune, Paul is the product of this centuries long selective breeding process to create a human with god-like powers. We are told that at the beginning of the book. There is a logical reason why he is a messiah figure.
For Luffy, its just pure luck.
Like in Dune, Paul is the product of this centuries long selective breeding process to create a human with god-like powers. We are told that at the beginning of the book. There is a logical reason why he is a messiah figure.
For Luffy, its just pure luck.
Dunno about Naruto but Bleach being better than One Piece is a hard take to sell
You know, for all that I dunk on Oda's recent pacing problems, at least he gave us 26 arcs after 700 chapters.
Kubo only gave us 5 arcs after nearly 700 chapters.... and two of those five arcs were about 50 chapters each.
Not to mention he had two big back to back rescue arcs that had way too much similarity going on with only a bunch of fights to distract from the fact he just regurgitated the same arc and whacked a shiny eye candy war on it.
Let us not forget the disaster that was the Thousand Year Blood War.
You know, for all that I dunk on Oda's recent pacing problems, at least he gave us 26 arcs after 700 chapters.
Kubo only gave us 5 arcs after nearly 700 chapters.... and two of those five arcs were about 50 chapters each.
Not to mention he had two big back to back rescue arcs that had way too much similarity going on with only a bunch of fights to distract from the fact he just regurgitated the same arc and whacked a shiny eye candy war on it.
Let us not forget the disaster that was the Thousand Year Blood War.
The writing is far worse, like how do I put this? 
Imagine if Kaido was not only 100% the strongest physical Top Tier in the verse but also had a devil fruit ability that would allow him to pretty much take on every other Top Tier single handedly. An ability so broken, that no other hax abilities can work on or even touch him. Not even in-verse reality warpers can do anything to him.
Not only that but he has CoO so good that he can simultaneously see every single possible future at once with no downsides and the aforementioned devil fruit ability allows to reach into the future and manipulate events before they even happen.
Not only that but Kaido also has a bunch of insanely strong subordinates with absolutely bullshit abilities that break the verse. For example, one of his lesser subordinates is just a straight up reality warper that can imagine anything and will it into existence.
Not only that but Kaido's devil fruit allows him to absorb and take every single other ability of all of his bat-shit insane subordinates upon their demise, including the reality warper.
Not only that but Kaido legit found the One Piece and is now just straight up God because sure, why not?
Now, imagine that this version of Kaido (who has either personally beaten every other Top Tier or has had his subordinates stall all other Top Tiers) is defeated because Usopp shot a sea stone bullet at him (which his Future Sight should have seen from a mile away) and this allows Luffy to one shot with a nameless attack.
Then instead of seeing the aftermath of any of this, we are immediately catapulted about 10 years into the future when everyone is retired with zero context or reason.
That is how Wano would end if Kubo was writing it.
Imagine if Kaido was not only 100% the strongest physical Top Tier in the verse but also had a devil fruit ability that would allow him to pretty much take on every other Top Tier single handedly. An ability so broken, that no other hax abilities can work on or even touch him. Not even in-verse reality warpers can do anything to him.
Not only that but he has CoO so good that he can simultaneously see every single possible future at once with no downsides and the aforementioned devil fruit ability allows to reach into the future and manipulate events before they even happen.
Not only that but Kaido also has a bunch of insanely strong subordinates with absolutely bullshit abilities that break the verse. For example, one of his lesser subordinates is just a straight up reality warper that can imagine anything and will it into existence.
Not only that but Kaido's devil fruit allows him to absorb and take every single other ability of all of his bat-shit insane subordinates upon their demise, including the reality warper.
Not only that but Kaido legit found the One Piece and is now just straight up God because sure, why not?
Now, imagine that this version of Kaido (who has either personally beaten every other Top Tier or has had his subordinates stall all other Top Tiers) is defeated because Usopp shot a sea stone bullet at him (which his Future Sight should have seen from a mile away) and this allows Luffy to one shot with a nameless attack.
Then instead of seeing the aftermath of any of this, we are immediately catapulted about 10 years into the future when everyone is retired with zero context or reason.
That is how Wano would end if Kubo was writing it.
Very stupid of Juan Peso fandom to think a Shonen MC would never be the "saviour/chosen one" of his story lol....not surprised though they deluded themselves hard 
It's going to be a Slam dunk L when Oda does says something like "the previous users of a fruit imprint some of their moves into the fruit".
It would be if Luffy got 2 more devil fruits, Advanced forms of all Haki mastered to its limit, Gear 5....fail to do anything significant to the enemy. But in the end he finishes the last enemy off with 1 punch because someone else distracted him in the end lol
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It's going to be a Slam dunk L when Oda does says something like "the previous users of a fruit imprint some of their moves into the fruit".
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It would be if Luffy got 2 more devil fruits, Advanced forms of all Haki mastered to its limit, Gear 5....fail to do anything significant to the enemy. But in the end he finishes the last enemy off with 1 punch because someone else distracted him in the end lol
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The writing is far worse, like how do I put this?
Imagine if Kaido was not only 100% the strongest physical Top Tier in the verse but also had a devil fruit ability that would allow him to pretty much take on every other Top Tier single handedly. An ability so broken, that no other hax abilities can work on or even touch him. Not even in-verse reality warpers can do anything to him.
Not only that but he has CoO so good that he can simultaneously see every single possible future at once with no downsides and the aforementioned devil fruit ability allows to reach into the future and manipulate events before they even happen.
Not only that but Kaido also has a bunch of insanely strong subordinates with absolutely bullshit abilities that break the verse. For example, one of his lesser subordinates is just a straight up reality warper that can imagine anything and will it into existence.
Not only that but Kaido's devil fruit allows him to absorb and take every single other ability of all of his bat-shit insane subordinates upon their demise, including the reality warper.
Not only that but Kaido legit found the One Piece and is now just straight up God because sure, why not?
Now, imagine that this version of Kaido (who has either personally beaten every other Top Tier or has had his subordinates stall all other Top Tiers) is defeated because Usopp shot a sea stone bullet at him (which his Future Sight should have seen from a mile away) and this allows Luffy to one shot with a nameless attack.
Then instead of seeing the aftermath of any of this, we are immediately catapulted about 10 years into the future when everyone is retired with zero context or reason.
That is how Wano would end if Kubo was writing it.
Imagine if Kaido was not only 100% the strongest physical Top Tier in the verse but also had a devil fruit ability that would allow him to pretty much take on every other Top Tier single handedly. An ability so broken, that no other hax abilities can work on or even touch him. Not even in-verse reality warpers can do anything to him.
Not only that but he has CoO so good that he can simultaneously see every single possible future at once with no downsides and the aforementioned devil fruit ability allows to reach into the future and manipulate events before they even happen.
Not only that but Kaido also has a bunch of insanely strong subordinates with absolutely bullshit abilities that break the verse. For example, one of his lesser subordinates is just a straight up reality warper that can imagine anything and will it into existence.
Not only that but Kaido's devil fruit allows him to absorb and take every single other ability of all of his bat-shit insane subordinates upon their demise, including the reality warper.
Not only that but Kaido legit found the One Piece and is now just straight up God because sure, why not?
Now, imagine that this version of Kaido (who has either personally beaten every other Top Tier or has had his subordinates stall all other Top Tiers) is defeated because Usopp shot a sea stone bullet at him (which his Future Sight should have seen from a mile away) and this allows Luffy to one shot with a nameless attack.
Then instead of seeing the aftermath of any of this, we are immediately catapulted about 10 years into the future when everyone is retired with zero context or reason.
That is how Wano would end if Kubo was writing it.
I heard that Bach was beaten, I just didn't know he was literally one shotted.
That was fucking horrible. I cannot believe that was written by a professional Mangaka like Kubo.
Thanks for telling me, mate. I am even more glad now to have dropped Bleach. Damn, Wano looks like a masterpiece compared to that.
I disagree that people are insult naruto,bleach,fairy tale and act like one piece is only special shonen in this world.
Another thing is the protagonist has something special , more important than anyone else,the chosen one is alway present in shonen manga. I have a lot of my favorite characters that have some special origin or secret. I'm not serious about it.
Another thing is the protagonist has something special , more important than anyone else,the chosen one is alway present in shonen manga. I have a lot of my favorite characters that have some special origin or secret. I'm not serious about it.
Holy shit, what the fuck?
I heard that Bach was beaten, I just didn't know he was literally one shotted.
That was fucking horrible. I cannot believe that was written by a professional Mangaka like Kubo.
Thanks for telling me, mate. I am even more glad now to have dropped Bleach. Damn, Wano looks like a masterpiece compared to that.
I heard that Bach was beaten, I just didn't know he was literally one shotted.
That was fucking horrible. I cannot believe that was written by a professional Mangaka like Kubo.
Thanks for telling me, mate. I am even more glad now to have dropped Bleach. Damn, Wano looks like a masterpiece compared to that.
not really tbh naruto started with a theme of natural talent vs hard work and naruto was portrayed to be on the hard work side, at the beginning but then turned out to be a reincarnation of a god which made the whole talent vs hard work thing pointless.
OP never had a talent vs hard work theme so it's free to make its protagonist go either way.
OP never had a talent vs hard work theme so it's free to make its protagonist go either way.
Why is this so true? 
Honestly, as shit tier as Wano obviously is, this comparison also serves to solidify that, even at his worst, Lolda is a cut above his peers.
Just so you know, I'm gonna start using your Juan Peso term from now on. 
Honestly, as shit tier as Wano obviously is, this comparison also serves to solidify that, even at his worst, Lolda is a cut above his peers.
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Very stupid of Juan Peso fandom to think a Shonen MC would never be the "saviour/chosen one" of his story lol....not surprised though they deluded themselves hard
It's going to be a Slam dunk L when Oda does says something like "the previous users of a fruit imprint some of their moves into the fruit".
It would be if Luffy got 2 more devil fruits, Advanced forms of all Haki mastered to its limit, Gear 5....fail to do anything significant to the enemy. But in the end he finishes the last enemy off with 1 punch because someone else distracted him in the end lol
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It's going to be a Slam dunk L when Oda does says something like "the previous users of a fruit imprint some of their moves into the fruit".
Post automatically merged:
It would be if Luffy got 2 more devil fruits, Advanced forms of all Haki mastered to its limit, Gear 5....fail to do anything significant to the enemy. But in the end he finishes the last enemy off with 1 punch because someone else distracted him in the end lol
Why is this so true?
Honestly, as shit tier as Wano obviously is, this comparison also serves to solidify that, even at his worst, Lolda is a cut above his peers.
Just so you know, I'm gonna start using your Juan Peso term from now on.
Honestly, as shit tier as Wano obviously is, this comparison also serves to solidify that, even at his worst, Lolda is a cut above his peers.
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Just so you know, I'm gonna start using your Juan Peso term from now on.
