Questions & Mysteries Will Oda ever give us a direct answer for Zoro vs Law?

[HA001]

Concerning 2 characters who are not confirmed to be swordsman I'm looking at the whole picture here.

Law having a cursed sword > King not having one.

King actually using his blade to cut in combat > Law using his blade as a glorified needle.

Law uses his blade offensively only for range purposes. Who has Law ever even attempted to cut with his blade? Law can hold a paddle made of quality metal instead of a sword and it changes virtually nothing about him or his fighting style.

Defensively having a blade helps you obviously in CQC. He's no different than King there. Offensively King is more of a swordsman than Law but Law having a cursed blade even things out.

You can put more weight on the other that's fine. Point is for all intents and purposes King is a swordsman by definition.

Oda specifically brought up zoros promise not to lose to a swordsman again against King.
So the King not being a swordsman thing doesn't fly.
Also law has cut more people than fujitora
Are we gonna say the blind swordsman isn't a swordsman

Post automatically merged: Feb 26, 2022

He hit Kaido with his strongest attack, and Kaido turned his back on him to fight someone that he deemed worthy (it was revealed that he did not think Zoro was worthy in the vivre card). Given that, no, he couldn’t face Kaido straight up, and given that he got dominated for most of the fight (despite being fully healthy) against someone that Law and Kid’s (who were both worn down) opponent would have eviscerated, he can’t compete with them. It’s not a bad thing, as they’re Luffy’s rivals, not his. I’m fine with that. His fanboys aren’t. As far as his CoC, I’ve been adamant that he would get it because Rayleigh had it.

As far as whether or not you think I sound like a fan of Zoro, I really don’t care. I don’t need to justify my liking of him to you or anyone else, nor am I going to waste my time trying on someone who won’t believe me regardless. The original three are my favorite characters in the series, but I’m not going to run around screeching about how they are all better than they are for self validation like Zoro’s fanboys do. I like Zoro for more than just his strength, which allows me to be realistic about him and be satisfied with where he’s at. That’s it.

Sure this coming from the guy who claimed he'd never even fight kaido lmfao

 

[Malio]

I called you out on your bs. That's all. To which you had no response but making excuses and exceptions.

Do you want me to change your mind or something? That's not my problem.

Or do you want an apology that you were called out on an open discussion?

No you came moaning to me, whilst denying what Oda said lol, keep coping though ZuZu.

I'd prefer it if you shut the fuck up, but i doubt you will buddy.

You called out the author, cause what he said is what I am parroting. YOU ARE upset I don't agree with you so you keep quoting me whilst repeating "I don't care, miss me with that shit" etc.

Keep moaning and "exposing" Oda ZuZu you are doing an amazing job buddy :cheers:

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Here’s a collection of all the things Law actually did against Big Mom

Chapter 1030

Spoiler

Beginning of what we see of the fight. Attacks Big Mom who is paying zero attention to him, focusing on Kid. This becomes a theme of the fight

Gets hit by Prometheus, independently.

Ends up on the deck, Big Mom basically unscathed other than a scratch on her face. Anything done here that base Zoro couldn’t? No.

Chapter 1031 and 1032

Spoiler

This is where Awakening comes into play. So at this stage we’ll say this is where KoH Zoro would start fighting as well, both being stamina draining upgrades that they unlocked after the fight.

Law, again, attacks Big Mom from behind while she’s focused on Kid,

It does hurt, but she recovers quickly and is still capable of talking.

It’s actually Kid that lands the stronger attack on her that takes time for her to recover and come back as Bigger Mom.

Any reason to think that if Zoro got to attack Big Mom from behind with a KoH attack (not Dragon Damnation) that it wouldn’t do at least the damage Law did? I say nope.

Chapter 1038

Spoiler

Beaten up a bit by nameless attacks. Nothing Zoro couldn’t take

Again, attacks a Big Mom paying zero attention to him.

Gets back up right after it only to be attacked by Kid.

So, again, if Zoro’s landing an unprotected KoH attack (not Dragon Damnation) on her from behind, it will fuck her up

Chapter 1039

Spoiler

Good hype for Law, Big Mom says his attacks are dangerous. But Big Mom was also shitting herself over base Zoro attacking Kaido on the roof, so eh

Law, once again, attacks from behind while Big Mom is attacking Kid. Combo here, launches a Tact and leaps on her right after

Law tanks the hits. These are also the last hits that Law takes. Impressive, eh, withstanding Hakai level, definitely not.

Lands Puncture Wille. His big attack. At this stage we can swap in Dragin Damnation. Does it blow up the crater in the ground, no, does it still badly fuck up Big Mom, hell yes.

She’s still capable of commanding Misery, the white eyes are very brief and she’s telling Kid to do his worst

That’s Law‘s biggest moment, and again, it’s nothing beyond Zoro. Anyone really going to try and argue he couldn’t take some base CoA punches, or that Dragon Damnation landed on her from behind wouldn’t fuck her up?

Chapter 1040

Spoiler

Here we see the one thing that Zoro cannot do. It’s also really situational and useless in most fights.

He also cuts up Misery, which Zoro could do

And… that’s the end of Law’s role. I really do not see squat puts him above Zoro. He’s certainly got a lot of very situational strengths- he can silence Big Mom, he can make a big crater in the ground. But that can be contrasted with the fact his one vs one attempts were pretty lacking.

Zoro cant cutt misery, misery is lighting and fire. Zoro only knows how to cutt fire

 

[Garp the Fist]

Concerning 2 characters who are not confirmed to be swordsman I'm looking at the whole picture here.

Law having a cursed sword > King not having one.

King actually using his blade to cut in combat > Law using his blade as a glorified needle.

Law uses his blade offensively only for range purposes. Who has Law ever even attempted to cut with his blade? Law can hold a paddle made of quality metal instead of a sword and it changes virtually nothing about him or his fighting style.

Defensively having a blade helps you obviously in CQC. He's no different than King there. Offensively King is more of a swordsman than Law but Law having a cursed blade even things out.

You can put more weight on the other that's fine. Point is for all intents and purposes King is a swordsman by definition.

Amputate, Radio Knife, Scan, Injection Shot, Shock Wille and Puncture Wille have all been shown needing his sword to work.

It’s complete headcanon to say Law would be anywhere near as strong with another weapon. Zero proof for it. There’s more reason to claim that Zoro could fight as well unarmed (he at least has Mutoryuu) or with scythes (used one against Killer). Law‘s not once fought anyone strong without his sword.

Just because King is not a swordsman, it does not translate to Law or any other character. Law in particular is in a very select group of three people who have used a cursed sword, that’s something that can’t just be hand-waved away with “oh he doesn’t actually need it.“ Cause there‘s zero reason to believe that, and every reason to believe that Law mastering a cursed sword makes him a swordsman, cause that’s an explicit fact from the manga, not fanfiction about the hypothetical swordless Law.

 

[NAMELESS]

World Strongest Swordsman>Any Silver Medalist.
Zoro>Law by EOS.Current Law has the upper hand due to awakening.

 

[ZenZu]

Oda specifically brought up zoros promise not to lose to a swordsman again against King.
So the King not being a swordsman thing doesn't fly.
Also law has cut more people than fujitora
Are we gonna say the blind swordsman isn't a swordsman

Post automatically merged: Feb 26, 2022

Sure this coming from the guy who claimed he'd never even fight kaido lmfao

Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman.

I'm talking about characters that are not confirmed. There is no way to know until Oda confirms it.

If Law was a case like Shanks or Rayleigh who have no dfs and no excuses, it'd be a different case.

Law's attacks
Amputate: no cutting involved
Injection shot : a gunshot
radio knife: again no real cut
Mes: no blade
Counter shock: no blade
Gamma knife (his best move prior to unlocking awakening): no cutting/slashing or blade involved.

Kroom: literally turns off the main function of a blade which is to cut.

So what exactly does Law do with a cursed blade offensively? Look at that entire movelist, Law may as well use a hockey stick and he'd replicate all of it. The only thing the blade provides him with his quality metal so he can defend.

If King can exist I have no reason to believe Law can't get a pass from the swordsman label.

@Garp the Fist. See above.

 

[Geo]

'' A gathering of SWORDSMAN when they cut it really hurts!''

What is Law doing there?

When it comes to Zoro downplay, even Oda's drawings cannot save us

 

[Garp the Fist]

Fujitora is a confirmed swordsman.

So is Law.

Ignore all the Usopp Pirate Gallery stuff, I don’t care about that either. It was explicitly said cursed swords have personalities, and need a swordsman to master it.

And that the blade itself choses the swordsman.

All this applies just as much to Law with Kikoku as it does Zoro and Enma.

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Law's a swordsman:

With Law, due to the kind of ability he wields, there will always be room for inconsistencies to call him a swordsman even if Oda outright comes out and calls him one. So I think the "Law's a swordsman" argument isn't that valid when it comes to him—at least not as valid as it is in Shanks vs. Mihawk. I would accept it as one of the potential reasons why Zoro could be above Law but I wouldn't agree with it if it's the sole or primary reason why Law should be weaker than Zoro.

Law has a portrayal advantage as he is a captain who rivals Luffy while Zoro is an underling:

True. It is a fact that Law's captain status gives him a superior portrayal but there should be a limit to how much leverage he gets just for being a captain. You can never make a fair comparison b/w the two as long as we're not willing to see past the "Law is a captain who rivals Luffy" argument. I mean, for all we know, Zoro could surpass Roger and Law could remain at a low-top-tier level at EOS, but we still can't make a case for Zoro because he's a mere underling who'll never be portrayed as much as a leading captain figure from the same generation. You're automatically disqualifying him saying he's an underling regardless of how high his power level is. And that's as irrational as it can get.

Law has bigger accomplishments:

Accomplishments play a huge role in the way we scale characters. It's due to Law's better accomplishments that he was rated higher than Zoro by the majority before Rooftop despite the fact that Zoro had never gone all out before Wano and after TS. It's the same reason why people started scaling Zoro higher than Law after Rooftop Piece. Beating Big Mom is far big an accomplishment than beating King, period. But Law shares this accomplishment with Kid and Kaido's weaponry. We do know Law's the biggest contributor but we don't exactly know how much he contributed specifically so we gotta look at their individual feats to make a comparison b/w Law and Zoro. And things aren't looking good for Law regardless of how we look at it.

 

[ZenZu]

What is Law doing there?

When it comes to Zoro downplay, even Oda's drawings cannot save us

Pretty sure Oda didn't draw that. It doesn't even look like Oda's art.

 

[SkySanji]

What is Law doing there?

When it comes to Zoro downplay, even Oda's drawings cannot save us

Oda didn't draw that, it's fanart lol

 

[Geo]

Pretty sure Oda didn't draw that. It doesn't even look like Oda's art.

IIRC It was one of the many tested cover pages he was coming up with before ending up with the No.2s Cover page.
The comment is from Oda IIRC

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Pretty sure Oda didn't draw that. It doesn't even look like Oda's art.

The comment is from Oda.

P.S. Nvm, I thought it was a different art.

 

[Malio]

Zoro cant cutt misery, misery is lighting and fire. Zoro only knows how to cutt fire

Zoro cuts the fire and misery dissappears

 

[SkySanji]

The comment is from Oda.

Oda's comment refers to them as "swordsmen" because the guy who did the fan art referred to them as "swordsmen", hardly conclusive.

 

[Geo]

Oda didn't draw that, it's fanart lol

The comment is from Oda

 

[park_min young]

There are two main arguments I’m seeing for the Zoro>Law.

1. The swordsman argument. Law’s main style of fighting doesn’t rely on swordsmanship and more on devil fruit, isn’t that obvious enough. He’s a surgeon first before a swordsman, his sword basically functions as a scalpel. The only time Law performed a sword feat without the use of his devil fruit is when he cut Misery (this is not even confirmed). You can make a better argument for Zoro>Roger going with this line of thinking based on how we know their fighting styles.

2. The relevancy argument. This is an even weaker argument than the other one. First of all Law will be one of the most relevant figure heads in the final war and overall story. Him being a D as well just further solidifies his role in whatever the story will head into. And relevancy does not have a strong correlation with strength in the first place. Of course one of the main characters will be more relevant, will Zoro be automatically above Roger, Xebec, and WB?

Another arguments is the goal argument. Zoro having a ”strength related” dream does not mean he’s automatically above someone who doesn’t. I always see this argument even in Sanji vs Zoro threads. WB, Roger, nor BM all don’t have goals directly connected to strength. WB wanted a family and he ends up being top 5 of all time.

 

[Geo]

There are two main arguments I’m seeing for the Zoro>Law.

1. The swordsman argument. Law’s main style of fighting doesn’t rely on swordsmanship and more on devil fruit, isn’t that obvious enough. He’s a surgeon first before a swordsman, his sword basically functions as a scalpel. The only time Law performed a sword feat without the use of his devil fruit is when he cut Misery (this is not even confirmed). You can make a better argument for Zoro>Roger going with this line of thinking based on how we know their fighting styles.

2. The relevancy argument. This is an even weaker argument than the other one. First of all Law will be one of the most relevant figure heads in the final war and overall story. Him being a D as well just further solidifies his role in whatever the story will head into. And relevancy does not have a strong correlation with strength in the first place. Of course one of the main characters will be more relevant, will Zoro be automatically above Roger, Xebec, and WB?

Another arguments is the goal argument. Zoro having a ”strength related” dream does not mean he’s automatically above someone who doesn’t. I always see this argument even in Sanji vs Zoro threads. WB, Roger, nor BM all don’t have goals directly connected to strength. WB wanted a family and he ends up being top 5 of all time.

Another argument is the feats argument.

 

[U c 4 up da idly]

Zoro cuts the fire and misery dissappears

Then Hera still exists

 

[park_min young]

Another argument is the feats argument.

Law doesn’t lack in that department either if we’re talking current feats.