General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet

[Gilgamesh]

Yes, Carrot could have done it but choosed not to act. You just discovered that Carrot is not a strawhat yet and there has no obligation to actually do the work. Congrats.

A big argument you've posited continuously is how proof-positive it is that Carrot was performing lookout duties while aboard the ship and was drawn naturally to doing it. But now she didn't do it, so it's not a big deal?

 

[Kuruka]

And start by reading correctly the subject of my sentence before you jump on me. I was talking about composition in a panel. This has nothing to do with pacing.

You literally were addressing my point about pacing...stop
or do I need to quote you?

No, there are none. That's why One Piece is in fact such a powerfull manga. What you are confusing with bad quality here is the CHOICES behind the panels. The panels ALWAYS have a purpose. If it was not the case, they would not be drawn.

you got caught now you're moving the goalpost...
IDC if the panels have a purpose...we are talking about WASTING PANELS
yes.. all panels have a purpose(small or large)...that doesn't change the fact that its still a waste.

I understand the PURPOSE of highlighting fodder on the battlefeild...
doesn't change the fact that it's a waist of time better spent on main fights.

You said Oda waists no panels...this is factually incorrect...next

I think you have a very low appreciation of this work. To think that an author just "cram" filler panels is quite telling about your degree of analysis.

You need to understand that EVEN if Oda adds content that he did not previously imagine and EVEN if this content is less important than the rest (which happens nearly never) the panels leading to this content are always meaningfull. Why ? Because to write good content, even if that content is not important you need to go through the SAME process you go when you write amazing content.

You are confusing completely narration and panel composition. In the same way (but this is actually another debate) your argument saying that Oda is losing time on fodder is everything but a reality. Everything Oda do in his story works to enhance something he wants to say. Sometimes, you can't see the big picture until it's finish. That's why I wouldn't be in too much of a hurry to listen to youtubers and those wanabee analyst on their take on the story. 90% of the time, they don't see the big picture. (I'm saying that because you are using their same exact rethoric).

The fact that Oda is being urged to advance or to slow down won't negate in ANY WAY his process.

Nope...focusing on panels that do nothing to actually progress the plot foward or have little to no cosequence if thrown away are filler.
No author is perfect(certainly not oda) most of these mangaka(especially WEEKLY ones) waste panel time with filler. this is literally to make sure the chapter is entertainingly paced out and can have a proper ending week to week in 15 or however many pages.
Oda has literally stated himself how he wished he could draw more pages but the IS a limit that Oda is constrained by which by effect creates filler panels.

If they were not, the the chapters would literally bleed together.
It's statistically impossible for Oda to have ended as many chapters as he has on cliffhangers.
so yea he pads things out to fill the page quota for exciting weekly chapters.
this aint rocket science lol
fyi: just because he adds filler does not mean those panels are meaningless. don't even try to strawman.

What I did what in fact pretty basic, their was no "hyper analysis". This kind of deconstruction can be done with literally EVERY panels of the manga. This is no rocket science.

i agree, it can...doesn't change the fact that you over analyzed it.
the analysis wasn't the problem it was when you put your own headcannon to it...claiming Oda is using this(basic shot elements) like carrot being the focal point of a single panel. to set up carrot as the main character or strawhat in the future....big leap
aka buggy getting praise from his crew.

Exactly, so don't make it like I just tried to discover a new planet here.

you kinda did lol

 

[Seatonnes]

Caribou RATIO

 

[Rootbeer]

Pro-Carrot: Explain why Oda will do the exact opposite of what he's done before just for Carrot. How come Carrot doesn't get a backstory, a main villain, primary focus in an arc etc. when every other SH did? How come Carrot gets to be the only character with no focus and be rewarded? "Wait till later." isn't an arugment.

Here taking a crack at it for Carrot..

Because the last 2 Strawhats to complete a crew of 13 members were not planned?.. Meaning a backstory in the present, a lesser Villain, lesser focus and more irrelevant screentime with the Strawhats..

 

[YouReadItWrong]

Urouge4Nakama

 

[Logiko]

She's like that octopus at the beginning of Wano who snuck on the ship unacknowledged but worse in Carrots case she's completely useless.. Luffy already forgot she exist..

Yeah.. This makes no sence..

There is no situation where Carrot jumping in the air to see something can outshine Usopp spotting the problem and dealing with it

A lookout is not the same as those positions and will never be as important we've seen how Jinbe as a helmsman shines in a dire situation and he got them out of it because of that unique skill he has as a helmsman

Carrot in the same dire situation let the enemy surround them

That's why the job of a look-Sentry and a sniper are complementary. You can't ask a look-out to erease a problem at distance, but you can ask it from a sniper. The same way, a sniper can't go into ennemy territory as poncture them from the inside, but a Sentry can. That said, Carrot will need to find a way to access her Sulong form when she needs too.

A look out is the SAME as any position on the ship. A usefull post. Just because you have a bias against Carrot doesn't make this position less relevant. Lookouts (and sentry here) is a job on a ship like cook or Helmsman or Gunner.

This is not up for debate.

A friend doesn't equal a Crewmember it is an ally until Luffy asks or they ask and he a Luffy accepts

Yup, I agree with that.

Its crazy that you say you analysized it and then called what I did "nothing"
Because I analyzed that panel using an actual book on cinematography and camera work

So now not only are you an expert in story telling but also a genius cinematographer... at this point I just want to see how wano turns put to call you on your crap

No, you analyzed this panel badly. Confusing composition, the principle of "show don't tell" and perspectives.. Those things are not the same.

The vital moment was in the situation

The example of that danger (Pero Spero) was the hurdle that she needed to cover come and she failed at it any further danger will be lessened because it won't be as dangerous as Pero Spero without it being someone as strong as Jack and above
Which she can't deal with alone even in Sulong considering it only happen once a month at night for 3 minutes

And considering she lost to Pero in a 2 vs 1

Wrong but for you to understand that, you would need a book about actual story crafting:

A challenge like the One Carrot faced, is not the "vital" moment or "the climax" the climax is when Carrot will need to make a choice, a choice between her recklessness and her desire to be a pirate.

This can only come AFTER she is faced with what we call in storytelling "the valley of death".. a moment of utter and clear defeat. For Carrot, that was (most likely) what her defeat with Perospero was..

Now Carrot will have to face again the challenge. This time to be victorious. (if Oda doesn't want to double up on that, which he could)

More coping. Momo knows he will be the next shogun means that he knows he needs to grow up both physically and mentally. Are you saying that Oda is toxic because Oda was the one who decided to age up Momo, and made Momo blatantly declares he’s going to be a shogun many times since he was physically 8?

Yes. I'm exactly saying that it would be an ethical mistake from Oda to let Momo without guidance.

Oh yes you can keep denying, but the facts are still there that you were banned for a reason.

and now here, is the perfect example of how toxic your mindset is. Instead of admitting you’re wrong, you blamed others, especially the mods in this forum

And surely I can report you because you don’t accept the terms and conditions in this forum

Yup. I was banned for criticizing the system, by a mod who confused my sentence "I'm here to make you ban if necessary" with "I'm here to provoke you in order to make you ban" nothing more, nothing less. This was an error from my part, I should have expected that I was a target the minute I criticized the toxicity of that forum. I won't make that mistake twice, I'll proceed differently this time :)

I'm not blaming the mod here. My sentence was eefy to begin with, the mistake was therefore logical.

Report me all you want. This won't justify your argumentation: Thinking that a mentally 8 years old should bare the responsability of a country without guidance is wrong.

Size? Lmao you can’t even differentiate age and size, and want to talk about maturity. Momo aged up, he got bigger in size because he’s an adult now. No matter how many times you cope, Momo is an adult. He aged up himself is only the first part, the second part he needs to “age up” mentally especially since he knows he should be a fucking shogun, which he declares many times to himself and others

You have really twisted mind to think just because someone is mentally 8 means he’s 8. It’s like saying Carrot is a grown up because she has boobs. I hope you aren’t talking about yourself.

Not gonna lie, it’s fun seeing you to be an entertainment for the whole fandom with how shallow your mindset is. I doubt if you have a brain, though ;)

Wrong. Momo did not "aged up" mentally. He is still 8. The story was clear as crystal on that.

However you look at it. Thinking that a mentally 8 years old should bare the responsability of a country without guidance is wrong. Even if it comes from Oda.

And you still asked why did I bring Law, the obvious of the most obvious. Did I say I doubt if you have a brain?

There is only doubt in yours, not mine. For me everything here is obvious.

You literally were addressing my point about pacing...stop
or do I need to quote you?

I adressed your point about pacing to tell you that bringing "Pacing" into a discussion about outlining and composition was meaningless.

you got caught now you're moving the goalpost...
IDC if the panels have a purpose...we are talking about WASTING PANELS
yes.. all panels have a purpose(small or large)...that doesn't change the fact that its still a waste.

That doesn't make any sence. You are still confusing "a wasted panel" with a "meaningless panel".. Why ? Because you brought it in the discussion in the first place and you keep doing it when the subject is not pacing orthe usage of panels, it's the meaning between THAT panel in chapter 1041.

I understand the PURPOSE of highlighting fodder on the battlefeild...
doesn't change the fact that it's a waist of time better spent on main fights.

You said Oda waists no panels...this is factually incorrect...next

For you who don't have an understanding of the big Picture or the themes around that big picture. For Oda (and for those who are actually analysing throughly the theme put in motion) .. the usage of those panel makes perfect sence.

Nope...focusing on panels that do nothing to actually progress the plot foward or have little to no cosequence if thrown away are filler.

Every panels makes the plot moving forward. There are none that don't. You are just showing how little you understand them. That's all.

No author is perfect(certainly not oda) most of these mangaka(especially WEEKLY ones) waste panel time with filler

The problem is that you think that small storylines are filler. You are completely missunderstanding what a filler is. A filler is something that has ALMOST NOTHING to do with the story. This does NOT happen in One Piece for two reasons: Oda don't have that kind of time where he can just create filler arc or storylines and 2. It would not make SENCE.

i agree, it can...doesn't change the fact that you over analyzed it.
the analysis wasn't the problem it was when you put your own headcannon to it...claiming Oda is using this(basic shot elements) like carrot being the focal point of a single panel. to set up carrot as the main character or strawhat in the future....big leap
aka buggy getting praise from his crew.

THeir is no "over analysis" in this. This panel litterally means that Carrot is still in focus. This "to set up carrot as the main character or strawhat in the future" I never said that. What I said is that this panel was a setup for "SOMETHING" in Carrot's future. YOU are strawmaning here lol

Pro-Carrot: Explain why Oda will do the exact opposite of what he's done before just for Carrot. How come Carrot doesn't get a backstory, a main villain, primary focus in an arc etc. when every other SH did? How come Carrot gets to be the only character with no focus and be rewarded? "Wait till later." isn't an arugment.

Strawmaning. I gave an explanation to everything here without saying "wait till later". You are just ignoring it lol

Anti-Yamato: Explain why Yamato will abandon her dream to stay in Wano. Yamato declared she's leaving after meeting Momo, and her DF was used by the main villain as a reason for her to stay, along with saying that he'll never let Yamato leave Wano. Why will the villain be proven right and the main characters wrong?

Same, there is no "anti Yamato" here. The moment there is a good evidence for Yamato joining, I will jump on the train without hesitation, I like her character that much.

These are simple questions that should be easy to answer without nonsense

My point exactly. but let's start to read each other first.. shall we ?

 

[SILVERS000]

That's why the job of a look-Sentry and a sniper are complementary. You can't ask a look-out to erease a problem at distance, but you can ask it from a sniper. The same way, a sniper can't go into ennemy territory as poncture them from the inside, but a Sentry can. That said, Carrot will need to find a way to access her Sulong form when she needs too.

A look out is the SAME as any position on the ship. A usefull post. Just because you have a bias against Carrot doesn't make this position less relevant. Lookouts (and sentry here) is a job on a ship like cook or Helmsman or Gunner.

This is not up for debate.

not saying its not a position on an ACTUAL ship but in the context of One Piece story is not needed as a sole position because it is done more effectively by another position

You assume i have a bias against Carrot when I've stated plenty of time on this thread that i can see her candidacy but dont think it will amount her successfully joining, and thats based of of what was shown in the story not some mental gymnastics you apply to every panel she is in just to say she will join

I think i was one of very few ppl left in the thread that tried to have a serious conversation with you but your insistence on saying people are wrong without providing any actual logic leads everyone to turn on you

No, you analyzed this panel badly. Confusing composition, the principle of "show don't tell" and perspectives.. Those things are not the same.

i said that they showed them retreating to a safe location rather than just showing up and saying they ran inside

that is why Oda showed them, **SHOW DONT TELL**

And I said that the analysis you gave was over analyzed, i never said they were the same thing

And with that I'm done with you lol
there is no point in conversing with someone who thinks theyre smarter than everyone, ppl are here to conversate about the idea of a character joining and the ideal position for said character

instead whenever you show up it turns into an "ANALYST" posting their twitter and blog like its confirmation

Wish i could say i enjoyed talking to you but it just made me believe Carrot has less of a chance of sticking around, which is sad because i actually like the minks and want to know more about them

PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DONT RESPOND TO ME ANYMORE, I have nothing else to say to you lmao

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

Yes. I'm exactly saying that it would be an ethical mistake from Oda to let Momo without guidance.

Your opinions don’t matter. Oda knows best what to do with his story. If you can’t accept it, make your own story.

Yup. I was banned for criticizing the system, by a mod who confused my sentence "I'm here to make you ban if necessary" with "I'm here to provoke you in order to make you ban" nothing more, nothing less. This was an error from my part, I should have expected that I was a target the minute I criticized the toxicity of that forum. I won't make that mistake twice, I'll proceed differently this time :)

I'm not blaming the mod here. My sentence was eefy to begin with, the mistake was therefore logical.

Report me all you want. This won't justify your argumentation: Thinking that a mentally 8 years old should bare the responsability of a country without guidance is wrong.

Don’t talk about logic, please. You’re just embarrassing yourself if you keep talking about logic, because so far you have none. Zero. Nada.

And I don’t need to. The mods can see that you blatantly admit that you don’t agree with the terms and conditions in this forum by criticizing the system, and you still blatantly admit that you intentionally make people get banned one way or another. The mods are clearly smarter than you, and it’s a fact
:cheers:

And I believe I did say your opinions don’t matter

Wrong. Momo did not "aged up" mentally. He is still 8. The story was clear as crystal on that.

However you look at it. Thinking that a mentally 8 years old should bare the responsability of a country without guidance is wrong. Even if it comes from Oda.

If you keep insisting the need of guidance, it is pretty much there, in the form of Oden’s journal. Hope you’re not missing the part where Oden is Momo’s biological father, and Oden guides Momo with the existence of his journal. Yamato has already “guided” Momo more than enough by giving the journal. The rest is still up to Momo to be matured by himself.

And there how your guidance argument bites the dust.


And yes, Momo aged up. Just because you keep coping and denying, doesn’t mean he’s not an adult.

With the way you keep denying, moving goalposts, and coping, you are the perfect example of an adult who has 8 years old mentality, or even lower. Does it change the fact that you’re not an adult? Definitely no. And do you need guidance although you have 8 years old or lower mentality? Definitely no, too.

There is only doubt in yours, not mine. For me everything here is obvious.

Who the fuck was talking about doubt? You were the one who asked why bringing Law and said I’m the one who has doubts.

 

[Logiko]

not saying its not a position on an ACTUAL ship but in the context of One Piece story is not needed as a sole position because it is done more effectively by another position

It's not. Usopp can't do the job of the Sentry. To do that, you would need to be able to fly into ennemy territory as a sentinel and be efficiant and you would need to be a look out with efficiancy. usopp can't do taht. What he did in Wano was not being a look out, it was being a sniper. A look-out need to be the higher possible to spot ship at a distance and I already proved you that Haki doesn't help.

So no. Look out is not done "more effectively by another position" It's a position in dyre need of a good man to it. And that man is Carrot.

You assume i have a bias against Carrot when I've stated plenty of time on this thread that i can see her candidacy but dont think it will amount her successfully joining, and thats based of of what was shown in the story not some mental gymnastics you apply to every panel she is in just to say she will join

Your bias is visible as clear as the sky, you might deny it, it's still visible.

What you see as mental gymnastic are actual storytelling argument. You are just not used to them.

I think i was one of very few ppl left in the thread that tried to have a serious conversation with you but your insistence on saying people are wrong without providing any actual logic leads everyone to turn on you

I provide enough evidence as it is. In fact i'm the one who provide the most panels here. And the most argumentation. While being faced with "you are doing mental gymnastic", "you are just stayin taht we are wrong" "you are a carrot furry".. If you don't see the logic, it doesn't mean it's not here. And my argumentation is strong enough not to have it been twisted by biases.

Every counter arguments you guyz are making are baised on one simple principle: That I don't know what I'm saying and I'm just reaching for everything. And because of that, you pretty much all have a bias toward everything I say ; "Mental gymnastic" "over analysis" "Bias" "Furry"

You will soon understand the power of bias and why I was EXTREMELLY careful not to have any concerning Carrot or Yamato. Even when it does fit my narrative.

i said that they showed them retreating to a safe location rather than just showing up and saying they ran inside

that is why Oda showed them, **SHOW DONT TELL**

Yup, and this is not something I disagree with. This is in fact a good point. What is not is to use that point to deny the composition of the panel.

And with that I'm done with you lol
there is no point in conversing with someone who thinks theyre smarter than everyone, ppl are here to conversate about the idea of a character joining and the ideal position for said character

instead whenever you show up it turns into an "ANALYST" posting their twitter and blog like its confirmation

You have the right to ignore me.

Wish i could say i enjoyed talking to you but it just made me believe Carrot has less of a chance of sticking around, which is sad because i actually like the minks and want to know more about them

This, proves that you have a bias.

Your opinions don’t matter. Oda knows best what to do with his story. If you can’t accept it, make your own story.

In that context, yes. Opinions matter.If Oda makes an ethical mistake (he has done some before) it would be logicaland legitimate to denounce them.

Don’t talk about logic, please. You’re just embarrassing yourself if you keep talking about logic, because so far you have none. Zero. Nada.

And I don’t need to. The mods can see that you blatantly admit that you don’t agree with the terms and conditions in this forum by criticizing the system
:cheers:

And I believe I did say your opinions don’t matter

ok ok

If you keep insisting the need of guidance, it is pretty much there, in the form of Oden’s journal. Hope you’re not missing the part where Oden is Momo’s biological father, and Oden guides Momo with the existence of his journal. Yamato has already “guided” Momo more than enough by giving the journal. The rest is still up to Momo to be matured by himself.

Oden's journal is not a guidance, it's a journal. Momo needs someone by his side to make him put his descision into perspective. A journal can't do that. Same, a journal can't train Momo. And the scabbards won't be able to do that efficiantly.

Yes.. Oden is exactly what Momo needs, the sad thing is.. he is not here... but WAIT.. Yamato IS Oden.

*mic drop*

And yes, Momo aged up. Just because you keep coping and denying, doesn’t mean he’s not an adult.

No:

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

In that context, yes. Opinions matter.If Oda makes an ethical mistake (he has done some before) it would be logicaland legitimate to denounce them.

If your opinions matter, Oda would change the story to make Carrot relevant. But he doesn’t change anything, so again: your opinions don’t matter.

ok ok

About time until the mod see that you admit you intentionally want to make people get banned
:cheers:

Oden's journal is not a guidance, it's a journal. Momo needs someone by his side to make him put his descision into perspective. A journal can't do that. Same, a journal can't train Momo. And the scabbards won't be able to do that efficiantly.

Yes.. Oden is exactly what Momo needs, the sad thing is.. he is not here... but WAIT.. Yamato IS Oden.

*mic drop*

Kaido is about to be dealt by Luffy sooner or later. There is no point to train Momo to defeat Kaido again, therefore there is no point for Yamato staying.

And yes, your opinions don’t matter, again. Yamato is self-proclaimed Oden, but she’s not Oden herself. You’re saying that Yamato is Oden is like saying that Robin is the devil, while it’s just epithet. No need to mic drop anything because nothing impressive with your arguments. You’re just making yourself more laughable

No:

Yes, si, oui. Doesn’t change the fact that Momo is an adult, although he has 8 years old mentality. Keep coping.

 

[Logiko]

If your opinions matter, Oda would change the story to make Carrot relevant. But he doesn’t change anything, so again: your opinions don’t matter.

Why change the story ? Carrot is already relevant, she is just not in the story too much right now. It would be like saying that Wiper is not relevant.. He is just not is the story.

About time until the mod see that you admit you intentionally want to make people get banned

Is this your final form ?

Kaido is about to be dealt by Luffy sooner or later. There is no point to train Momo to defeat Kaido again, therefore there is no point for Yamato staying.

Kaido is not the only thread to Wano. The WG is.

And yes, your opinions don’t matter, again. Yamato is self-proclaimed Oden, but she’s not Oden herself. You’re saying that Yamato is Oden is like saying that Robin is the devil, while it’s just epithet. No need to mic drop anything because nothing impressive with your arguments. You’re just making yourself more laughable

So Yamato is Oden to join the crew but is not enough Oden to guide Momo ?

lol.exe

Yes, si, oui. Doesn’t change the fact that Momo is an adult, although he has 8 years old mentality. Keep coping.

So you are okay if people start to ship Momo and Yamato ?

 

[JoSeungHun7335]

Why change the story ? Carrot is already relevant, she is just not in the story too much right now. It would be like saying that Wiper is not relevant.. He is just not is the story.

Wiper is relevant, Carrot is not. Keep coping

Is this your final form ?

Why? Are you afraid taking responsibilities of your own action? Speaks so much how your mentality is
:cheers:

Kaido is not the only thread to Wano. The WG is.

And now you’re moving goalposts. You were saying that Yamato needs to train Momo because she spends most of her life fighting her own dad, that she knows how to deal with Kaido. And now after I said that Kaido will be dealt by Luffy, you’re moving goalposts by saying Yamato still will stay to train Momo to deal with WG while Momo clearly has Hyogoro, and 9 scabbards to train him to deal with WG. Oh and there is Zunisha to protect Wano.

I believe you don’t want me to copy and paste your argument about how Yamato needs to train Momo to beat Kaido’s ass to embarrass you even further.

So Yamato is Oden to join the crew but is not enough Oden to guide Momo ?

lol.exe

On which part did I say she’s Oden enough to join the crew? To be exact, on which part did I say Yamato is Oden? I clearly said that she’s not Oden just because she self-proclaimed that she is. If you say that you are Superman, are you Superman himself? It really isn’t that hard to comprehend.

You were the one who stated that Yamato is Oden, not me. Are you really that illiterate?

So you are okay if people start to ship Momo and Yamato ?

Wua? Why do you need to project your disgusting fantasy to the topic? Is this what you have in mind all the time? It’s about sexual things?


Oh wait. I forgot that the “shipping” question comes from a certain someone who’s obsessed with underaged bunny girl. Sorry, I forgot

 

[Rootbeer]

Yeah.. This makes no sence..

Look that’s Carrot right there unnoticed by everyone.. Until they start yapping no one gives a furry fart..

 

[Kuruka]

I adressed your point about pacing to tell you that bringing "Pacing" into a discussion about outlining and composition was meaningless.

"The pacing =/= The panels

People complaining about pacing doesn't mean that there are wasted Panel."
this is what you said...
any other bad faith arguements?

That doesn't make any sence. You are still confusing "a wasted panel" with a "meaningless panel".. Why ? Because you brought it in the discussion in the first place and you keep doing it when the subject is not pacing orthe usage of panels, it's the meaning between THAT panel in chapter 1041.

another strawman...
I hate repeating myself...I clearly stated
"yes.. all panels have a purpose(small or large)...that doesn't change the fact that its still a waste."
never once did I say panels don't have meaning...
If in the latest chapter.(for exmple)..instead of getting the drawings of luffy v kaido.. Oda gave us more panels of law and kids crew reacting to the rumblings upstairs?
yes those panels would in theory, have meaning but they still are a WASTE.

For you who don't have an understanding of the big Picture or the themes around that big picture. For Oda (and for those who are actually analysing throughly the theme put in motion) .. the usage of those panel makes perfect sence.

honestly...just get over yourself
youre not as good an analyst as you think you are
it honestly seems like this is your default run-to when youre losing an argument.
if you cant refute the argument just say that

Every panels makes the plot moving forward. There are none that don't. You are just showing how little you understand them. That's all.

what is the definition of plot?
i'm just curious.. because I don't think you actually know what it is lol.

The problem is that you think that small storylines are filler. You are completely missunderstanding what a filler is. A filler is something that has ALMOST NOTHING to do with the story. This does NOT happen in One Piece for two reasons: Oda don't have that kind of time where he can just create filler arc or storylines and 2. It would not make SENCE.

what I just bolded in your response shows YOU don't know the meaning of filler.
all filler means is to FILL in space for time
The reason why in anime small storylines that have nothing to do with the main story are called "filler arcs" is simply because they are used to FILL IN time so that the anime isn't caught up to the manga.
it has nothing to do with how much of the story it pertains to.
Wano in the anime is a PERFECT example of filler being used that is actually related to the story.
in this case(manga) oda uses filler panels that are a WASTE so that the chapter has an entertaining ending each WEEK

there is no debate that he does this. he has himself has already admitted so as Ive stated earlier.

THeir is no "over analysis" in this. This panel litterally means that Carrot is still in focus. This "to set up carrot as the main character or strawhat in the future" I never said that. What I said is that this panel was a setup for "SOMETHING" in Carrot's future. YOU are strawmaning here lol

yea..carrot was the focal point of ONE panel.
all the focal point means is that the author is bringing attention to it...THATS IT
the headcannon(over analysis) comes in when you ASSUME that its setup for "something".
assumtions have no room in analysis of cinematography. youre not suited for this field.

 

[Monkey D Al]

Wrong comparison. Wiper was an "arc character" meaning that Wiper was specifically design to fit the place of the usual Princess and prince. He is one of the main character of the arc. This has nothing to do with Carrot who was never depicted as a main character (minus two chapters). Princes and princesses don't join, they are here to drive the storylines of the arc.

I plan to write a post about the different categories of character so you can understand that.



Wrong, Carrot's transformation is by FAR the most impactfull one. For multiple reasons:

- Because it's the most surprising. Everybody was waiting a werewolf transformation and what we got was a moon deity.
- Because it's the most worked out. You can see that with the work of the lines. Carrot's transformation was carefully drawn by Oda. This is not the case of Nekomamushi and Inuarashi who's transformation are a lot more "rough"
- Because the outlining isthe most impactfull. Carrot's transformation took 1 entire double page (just to transform) and an ENTIRE page just to depict the beauty of the transformation. With one panel of chopper on the side as a reaction and THREE different views perfectly integrated in the panel of Sulong Carrot.
- Because it's the most magical. Because of the context and the pressure behind the strawhats, Carrot's transformation appears as a god gift, she is also seens as mystical by everyone in both the audiance and the character. Neko and inu's transformation was expected.
- Because it end's up on the most action pack moment. The rest of the entire chapter is focused on the impact of this transformation, that's not what happen for Inu and Neko
- Simply because of the difference in reaction of the readers, check it out, you will see a BIG difference.
- Because of the design. Carrot Sulong form has a far better design than both Inu and Neko. The reason being that she gets the perfect mix of humanity VS bestiality.
Etc.. Plenty more..

Oda carefully crafted Sulong Carrot, not only because he wanted to highlight the Sulong but because Carrot is someone special.

Again, Storytelling Matters.



Don't worry, I would actually be glad to be proven wrong.

Okay! Let’s start to dissect your points and my points.

My point with Viper is that panel time doesn’t mean someone is gonna join the crew, neither reactions or their relationship to the strawhats. We have seen a lot of members who became close friends with the Strawhats but didn’t join.
Franky started as an enemy had no good interactions with them but the moment he got to fight Fukurou I knew he was the next strawhat.
No one could have predicted Robin.
Carrot traveled with the strawhats cuz she sneaked on the ship, not because Luffy asked her, not because she wanted to save Sanji, she just wanted to travel. Goal achieved, go home now.
Her sulong transformation had more panels because it was the first transformation. That is what happen in manga and anime when something is I traduced for the first time. Example first time Gear 2, first time gear 4, first time snakeman against the other times. Rasengan in naruto first time vs the other times. SSJ in dragon ball first time vs the other times.
If Carrot was supposed to join the strawhats Oda would never push her to the sidelines as he has done.
Jinbe in marineford major role, in fishman island major role, in WCI major role.
Carrot In Zou introduced as a side character, Carrot in WCI present and that on transformation(to give as context for wano and what to expect from inu and neko), Wano not even a side character.
WHY???? cuz she’s irrelevant

Yamato on the other hand has been introduced from the first moment and depicted as someone who will join them permanently.

 

[Logiko]

Wiper is relevant, Carrot is not. Keep coping

Lmao

Why? Are you afraid taking responsibilities of your own action? Speaks so much how your mentality is

No, I'm afraid that you think you are making sence.

And now you’re moving goalposts. You were saying that Yamato needs to train Momo because she spends most of her life fighting her own dad, that she knows how to deal with Kaido. And now after I said that Kaido will be dealt by Luffy, you’re moving goalposts by saying Yamato still will stay to train Momo to deal with WG while Momo clearly has Hyogoro, and 9 scabbards to train him to deal with WG. Oh and there is Zunisha to protect Wano.

The "you are moving the goal post" thing... is that specific to Yamato fan's on that forum ? It's feels like you goto when you don't know what to reply...

The problem is that I feel like you read half my sentences everytime I make a comment.. so it must be quite hard for you to actually follow what I'm saying.

Again like always, you are inventing something I never said because you seems to be reading only the first half of my sentence (or one 1/2 words I don't really know..):

NEVER did I say that Momo should be prepare for Kaido, I said that only Yamato could train Momo because she spent her life fighting with a dragon > Do you really not understand the meaning of my sentence here ?

In short I was only saying that Momo should be trained, and because she fought a dragon, Yamato should know the best to do that... that's all. Why are you inventing things ?

Read carefully please...

On which part did I say she’s Oden enough to join the crew? To be exact, on which part did I say Yamato is Oden? I clearly said that she’s not Oden just because she self-proclaimed that she is. If you say that you are Superman, are you Superman himself? It really isn’t that hard to comprehend.

You were the one who stated that Yamato is Oden, not me. Are you really that illiterate?

That's the goto of every Yamato fans and I can't really take you appart from everyone so .. here you go.. My excuses.
So.. you agree that the parrallelism between Yamato and Oden as an argument for her recruitment is bogus ?

Wua? Why do you need to project your disgusting fantasy to the topic? Is this what you have in mind all the time? It’s about sexual things?

This is a legitimate question. Following your argumentation, Shipping Yamato and Momo wouldn't be disgusting as Momo is a "grown up man".. Of course I find that disgusting but their is not logical reason for you to find that disgusting... isn't it ?

Look that’s Carrot right there unnoticed by everyone.. Until they start yapping no one gives a furry fart..

Woops..!

"The pacing =/= The panels

People complaining about pacing doesn't mean that there are wasted Panel."
this is what you said...
any other bad faith arguements?

Yup, still holds, and ?

another strawman...
I hate repeating myself...I clearly stated
"yes.. all panels have a purpose(small or large)...that doesn't change the fact that its still a waste."
never once did I say panels don't have meaning...

Okay my bad, I went back to the discussion and you indeed only complained about pacing out of context. Only my point on pacing stands.

My excuses.

If in the latest chapter.(for exmple)..instead of getting the drawings of luffy v kaido.. Oda gave us more panels of law and kids crew reacting to the rumblings upstairs?
yes those panels would in theory, have meaning but they still are a WASTE.

Those panels are not a waste. They all serve a purpose of narrative recontextualisation. Like I said, because you don't see the purpose of those panels doesn't mean they is none. Never forget that Oda is writing for both a VOLUME audiance and a CHAPTER one. Even if you as dilligent reader knows the status of the situation, readers who reads the chapters more casually are not in the same case. Panel of recontextualization are therefore a necessity for a good reading session.

In fact that one of the parameters that makes One Piece so easy to follow. Despite thecomplete explosion of the battlefield, you know EXACTLY what and who is doing what.. and where. recontextualization panels are one thing that Manga authors are often forgetting.. Making the action completely unreadable for the casual audience.

honestly...just get over yourself
youre not as good an analyst as you think you are
it honestly seems like this is your default run-to when youre losing an argument.
if you cant refute the argument just say that

In fact, I was not putting myself into that specific category. I only take into notice the arc themes and the big picture once the arcs are completely finished, plus, I'm currently focus on only one specific part of the storyline. I was talking more about those who are analysing the arc and reading it as a whole.

what is the definition of plot?
i'm just curious.. because I don't think you actually know what it is lol.

Lmao

what I just bolded in your response shows YOU don't know the meaning of filler.
all filler means is to FILL in space for time
I was talking about the narrative nature of fillers, not their function.
The reason why in anime small storylines that have nothing to do with the main story are called "filler arcs" is simply because they are used to FILL IN time so that the anime isn't caught up to the manga.
it has nothing to do with how much of the story it pertains to.

But you don't understand one thing. There is two type of Filler:

The one category where you expend the story (which should honestly not be called "filler") by adding midcanon scenes
&
The one category where a new storyline is invented.

I'm only talking about the second one.

Either way. NONE of those category applies to a manga serie like One Piece, you won't find ANY filler in the story.

yea..carrot was the focal point of ONE panel.

Yes. And because of that I can apply the following narrative logic: If Carrot was the focus on one panel after her defeat (who is by essence an unresolve plot line [because of the nature of defeats]) it means that Oda is NOT deciding that Carrot will fade away with the Mink tribe in the storyline. Therefore because of that principle and because the defeat is by essence an unresolve plotline, we can make the assumption that Oda is planning something for Carrot again. Might it be small or big.

It's simple narrative logic. Nothing more.

My point with Viper is that panel time doesn’t mean someone is gonna join the crew, neither reactions or their relationship to the strawhats. We have seen a lot of members who became close friends with the Strawhats but didn’t join.

I agree with that in fact. But the panel time means one things : The importance of the character in a said storyline. And the panel time of Carrot in whole cake is clear: Carrot matters. Now, this panel time does not fade aways because we are moving in Wano. It stays the same. The only answer is therefore : Carrot was important for whole cake but not for Wano. The question is: Why ? That is when you dissect everything that happened in whole cake: We had time for strawhats development and interactions. We had time to developp Carrot story. This is why Carrot's storyline in whole cake is so important. It's a setup.

No one could have predicted Robin.

Trust me that EVERY theorist of today would have been able to predict Robin. Why ? Becausee, like Carrot, there were unresolve storylines concerning Robin, and unresolved mystery. In fact I can assure you that the MOMENT Robin appeared (chapter 114), this was possible to at least "theorize" it. Again.. why ?

Because Robin's first appearance is constructed like a lot of character falling into the category of "false adversary".

Let me explain: in most stories there are different type of characters that comes back again.. and again because of the nature of a story itself:

- The protagonist
- The ally
- The antagonist
- The false ally
- The false adversary

There is more but those are not so important here. In One Piece you can see those come back again and again, arcs after arcs withone exception: Most of the time there is no false ally. Because of a simple reason: Oda constructed Luffy as a social magnet, so it's very unlikely for characters to betray the heroes.

Wano is in fact one of the only arc where there is a real false ally:

Yamato (and Robin) are falling into the "false adversary" category. Yamato was introduced as kaido's son, so by essence as an adversary, but rapidely swiched, Robin on the other hand took more time, but the construction was similar. You have to understand that for a good adversary to work, the character must be setup very early with "ally" specificity. That's why the fact that Robin was depicted as a false adversary and the fact that she took the hat on her own head directly.. made it theorically possible to predict Robin as a future strawhat directly on her first appearance.

Sorry for my rambling but I hope that you understand now that with very little as a narration technique and a simple gesture of the character.. we can actually predict a LOT of things. If this was the case for Robin, this was actually no different for Franky (a false adversary too) or for Brook or Jinbe. Each one of them was easy to predict for the ones who really analysed the story.

This is no different for Carrot. You need to understand that I'm working on this case for years. I have dissected the story like a frog in a classroom. I know every inch of Carrot's story.. and when I say that there are clews (massive one) that Carrot will join the crew.. I don't lie. The clews are massive. But they are not obvious.

Carrot traveled with the strawhats cuz she sneaked on the ship, not because Luffy asked her, not because she wanted to save Sanji, she just wanted to travel. Goal achieved, go home now.

You should know that: once a pirate.. always a pirate.

Her sulong transformation had more panels because it was the first transformation. That is what happen in manga and anime when something is I traduced for the first time. Example first time Gear 2, first time gear 4, first time snakeman against the other times. Rasengan in naruto first time vs the other times. SSJ in dragon ball first time vs the other times.

Of course, but there is a difference between a lot of Panels and a chapter focused almost entirely on the beauty and the mysticalness of said transformation.. Even for gear fourth or Second, Oda never did that much descriptive panelling.

If Carrot was supposed to join the strawhats Oda would never push her to the sidelines as he has done.

Why ? There is no rule saying that Oda should put the future strawhats under the light. In fact, he did the same for Robin by putting her into the shadows (yes she had a bit more meaning but the construction is the same : the shadows)

Jinbe in marineford major role, in fishman island major role, in WCI major role.

And Carrot plays a major role in whole cake. Oda only put her in shadows in Wano.

WHY???? cuz she’s irrelevant

if this was the case, Oda would have put her back with the minks as a background character. This was not the case:

Yamato on the other hand has been introduced from the first moment and depicted as someone who will join them permanently.

Yamato was never depicted as a strawhat. Carrot was.

 

[Rootbeer]

Woops..!

This is Carrot’s best panel in the entire manga..

Filler character less relevant than Pandawoman..

 

[thedarkdragon11]

No different than this one:

 

[RobinsFeet]

Yamato was never depicted as a strawhat. Carrot was.

Its the other way around...

Stop with that delusion. Your fantasy will not become reality. It does not work like that. You sound insane. Its not healthy. You are spending and wasting so much time for something that will never happen.

I know you spend way too much time and energy in this stuff. I know you feel there is no step back from all this. But let me tell you, its never too late. Accept the loss of your time and energy and move on. The longer this goes, the worse it gets.

Again, imagining being you, and imagining the realization it was all for nothing, how you will feel in that moment, is scaring me.

 

[Logiko]

No different than this one:

Completely different..

Carrot is showed alone with the strawhat having fun for the same reasons they have. And hugging Nami.. This is nothing alike

Its the other way around...

Show me then, where Yamato was depicted as a strawhat and why. Let's turn this back around shall we, this time I will be the one to make a judment hehe

Again, imagining being you, and imagining the realization it was all for nothing, how you will feel in that moment, is scaring me

Told you many time. There is no need for a James bond villain's speech. If I'm wrong, it shows that I've still a lot to learn about One PIece, and I can't be more excited about anything more than than! hehe