Powers & Abilities Zoro and the Scabbards
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No. I am pointing out that the claim is being misrepresented
The claim is that all who have tried have failed. The claim therefore does not represent anybody who has not tried. The scabbards most likely haven't tried. It is very out of character for them to do so.
You're literally making a thread asking people for their opinions, and now you're using the fact my post contains my opinion as a way to invalidate it. Nice idiosyncrasy. If you have no counter argument other than "that's just an opinion" then you've got nothing worth adding to the conversation.
Zoro has not mastered Enma. He said he will (FUTURE TENSE) be stronger when he has.
Yes and Kyoshiro is literally laughing at Zoro, while Zoro is out of breath, fighting for the sake of Yasuie who is LITERALLY ABOUT TO DIE. How can you seriously imply Zoro wasn't trying there? Of course 3 swords > 2 in Zoro's case, but please understand, Zoro was trying his best, poor guy, and Kyoshiro was just having fun.
At least we can agree here!
Hating =/= difference in opinion for fuck sake
The claim is that all who have tried have failed. The claim therefore does not represent anybody who has not tried. The scabbards most likely haven't tried. It is very out of character for them to do so.
You're literally making a thread asking people for their opinions, and now you're using the fact my post contains my opinion as a way to invalidate it. Nice idiosyncrasy. If you have no counter argument other than "that's just an opinion" then you've got nothing worth adding to the conversation.
Zoro has not mastered Enma. He said he will (FUTURE TENSE) be stronger when he has.
Yes and Kyoshiro is literally laughing at Zoro, while Zoro is out of breath, fighting for the sake of Yasuie who is LITERALLY ABOUT TO DIE. How can you seriously imply Zoro wasn't trying there? Of course 3 swords > 2 in Zoro's case, but please understand, Zoro was trying his best, poor guy, and Kyoshiro was just having fun.
At least we can agree here!
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Hating =/= difference in opinion for fuck sake
This is where the issue is. You need to support this with a manga fact not just speculation or your opinion on their character.
Manga fact: Kawamatsu who is at the same level as Asura and Denjiro was amazed that Zoro was able to tame the sword.
If he was able to do same, why would he be amazed?
An opinion must be based on a manga fact or supported in some way by what is in the manga. You can't just state something of head and proceed to defend it as fact without any support. That's how an argument works. Isn't that why you quoted me in order to have an argument? You intended to counter my claim which is supported by manga with your claim which is based on speculation.....
The word was tame not master. Reread your own post
Yasue was already dead. Kyoshiro smiling could just be his disposition, it doesn't imply that he isn't trying. You claim that Zoro was trying his best but then he wasn't even using haki or named attacks against Kyoshiro...so where is that statement coming from?
Manga fact: Kawamatsu who is at the same level as Asura and Denjiro was amazed that Zoro was able to tame the sword.
If he was able to do same, why would he be amazed?
An opinion must be based on a manga fact or supported in some way by what is in the manga. You can't just state something of head and proceed to defend it as fact without any support. That's how an argument works. Isn't that why you quoted me in order to have an argument? You intended to counter my claim which is supported by manga with your claim which is based on speculation.....
The word was tame not master. Reread your own post
Yasue was already dead. Kyoshiro smiling could just be his disposition, it doesn't imply that he isn't trying. You claim that Zoro was trying his best but then he wasn't even using haki or named attacks against Kyoshiro...so where is that statement coming from?
It's a reasonable speculation though. The sword passed hands from Oden to Hiyori, as per his will. The scabbards (other than one as of yet unknown to us, and potentially Denjiro) are all LOYAL to Oden. They honour him, and this goes for his will as well. 20 years of unbent, unbroken and unbowed loyalty - but you think it is more likely that they have all tried to use Enma, in turn tarnishing Oden's will? This is a samurai based culture. They have a strict code. That much we know already.
Manga fact: Kawamatsu is clearly not on the same level going by feats. Assuming Kyoshiro is Denjiro, he and Asura Doji look like YC3 or thereabouts. Kawamatsu isn't much stronger than the dukes in base form, who needed a 2v1 to put up a fight against Jack (and still lose).
Manga fact: Kawamatsu is amazed Zoro could tame Enma
Interpretation of said fact: we do not know why he is amazed. Did he try himself? We don't know. Is it merely based on the swords reputation? We don't know.
Heck, is the claim about Enma merely a reputation based claim, or is it based in fact? We. Do. Not. Fucking. Know. Take all these remarks with a pinch of salt.
And my opinion is based on Manga fact.
Manga fact number 1
Ashura Doji had the upper hand against Jack
Manga fact number 2
Ashura Doji is therefore at least at YC3 level in terms of power
Manga fact number 3
Zoro has not shown anything on that level or scale, and he's now receiving a power up
Interpretation of fact number 3
Power ups come when a character needs to be stronger to meet the upcoming demands of their fights. Zoro needs this power up to reach that plane in terms of power. Zoro isn't far behind YC3, but the dude is certainly not stronger than Jack yet.
That is my opinion. I provided scans in my original post. I used the Manga to support my claim. Now you're lecturing me about how I need to use the manga to support my opinion. In turn, dismissing my opinion, which met the requirements you're demanding here. I'm sorry, but this is nothing but hypocrisy and confusion dude. If you can't challenge somebody's point, just don't bother trying to address it.
Tame/Master are synonyms.
It could be Kyoshiro's typical disposition, but at the end of the day, when guys like Doffy tried, their disposition changed to become far more serious. Do you have socio-emotional agnosia? It's clear Kyoshiro literally isn't even trying. Like, zero effort. Zoro is panting, visibly enraged and shocked by the fact this guy is toying with him. That much is obvious. I don't care how you try and interpret it or pretend to interpret it: you know Kyoshiro at that point in time was stronger than Zoro no question.
Manga fact: Kawamatsu is clearly not on the same level going by feats. Assuming Kyoshiro is Denjiro, he and Asura Doji look like YC3 or thereabouts. Kawamatsu isn't much stronger than the dukes in base form, who needed a 2v1 to put up a fight against Jack (and still lose).
Manga fact: Kawamatsu is amazed Zoro could tame Enma
Interpretation of said fact: we do not know why he is amazed. Did he try himself? We don't know. Is it merely based on the swords reputation? We don't know.
Heck, is the claim about Enma merely a reputation based claim, or is it based in fact? We. Do. Not. Fucking. Know. Take all these remarks with a pinch of salt.
And my opinion is based on Manga fact.
Manga fact number 1
Ashura Doji had the upper hand against Jack
Manga fact number 2
Ashura Doji is therefore at least at YC3 level in terms of power
Manga fact number 3
Zoro has not shown anything on that level or scale, and he's now receiving a power up
Interpretation of fact number 3
Power ups come when a character needs to be stronger to meet the upcoming demands of their fights. Zoro needs this power up to reach that plane in terms of power. Zoro isn't far behind YC3, but the dude is certainly not stronger than Jack yet.
That is my opinion. I provided scans in my original post. I used the Manga to support my claim. Now you're lecturing me about how I need to use the manga to support my opinion. In turn, dismissing my opinion, which met the requirements you're demanding here. I'm sorry, but this is nothing but hypocrisy and confusion dude. If you can't challenge somebody's point, just don't bother trying to address it.
Tame/Master are synonyms.
It could be Kyoshiro's typical disposition, but at the end of the day, when guys like Doffy tried, their disposition changed to become far more serious. Do you have socio-emotional agnosia? It's clear Kyoshiro literally isn't even trying. Like, zero effort. Zoro is panting, visibly enraged and shocked by the fact this guy is toying with him. That much is obvious. I don't care how you try and interpret it or pretend to interpret it: you know Kyoshiro at that point in time was stronger than Zoro no question.
again things like this dont have to be proven
you dont have to see wb beating up garp, sengoku, or roger to know he was the world strongest man
you dont have to see mihawk beat fuji the blind swordsman to prove he's the world strongest swordsman
Their titles are given by the authors as a clear portrayal
whether the scabbards did or didnt try to take the blade is yet to be known. but if kinemon is hesitant meaning he has seen what might happen to people who try to tame enma and kawamatsu seems impressed and no one else did it aside oden, then it does seem like he is meant to be potrayed over those who havent tamed enma. while we are at it, zoro isnt quite where oden was but he will approach it. accordingg to tengu , he even believes with his skill , he may be able to turn it into a black blade.
zoro isnt yc1 just cause he got enma. he would need to battle against suitable opponents before we can gage him. I would liken it to his g4 tho with its effect on haki.
you dont have to see wb beating up garp, sengoku, or roger to know he was the world strongest man
you dont have to see mihawk beat fuji the blind swordsman to prove he's the world strongest swordsman
Their titles are given by the authors as a clear portrayal
whether the scabbards did or didnt try to take the blade is yet to be known. but if kinemon is hesitant meaning he has seen what might happen to people who try to tame enma and kawamatsu seems impressed and no one else did it aside oden, then it does seem like he is meant to be potrayed over those who havent tamed enma. while we are at it, zoro isnt quite where oden was but he will approach it. accordingg to tengu , he even believes with his skill , he may be able to turn it into a black blade.
zoro isnt yc1 just cause he got enma. he would need to battle against suitable opponents before we can gage him. I would liken it to his g4 tho with its effect on haki.
That is a fair point
But we cannot look past the fact Zoro seems like a dunce in comparison to what we've seen from Kyoshiro and Asura Doji up until now. The statement is conditional as well. If Zoro can master it, he will become the second to do so. He hasn't mastered it yet. For now, nothing has changed. The statement only shows Tenguyamas faith in Zoro's potential and it will hold true as a device for powerscaling when Zoro has achieved this.
I would like to add there are inconsistencies with these remarks though. WB worlds strongest man basically lost to Akainu as the latter was fit to continue fighting, landed two lethal blows etc. whereas Whitebeard was doomed to die after receiving those hits. Hancock, worlds strongest female pirate based on her title of empress, is much weaker than Linlin. Just two examples.
But we cannot look past the fact Zoro seems like a dunce in comparison to what we've seen from Kyoshiro and Asura Doji up until now. The statement is conditional as well. If Zoro can master it, he will become the second to do so. He hasn't mastered it yet. For now, nothing has changed. The statement only shows Tenguyamas faith in Zoro's potential and it will hold true as a device for powerscaling when Zoro has achieved this.
I would like to add there are inconsistencies with these remarks though. WB worlds strongest man basically lost to Akainu as the latter was fit to continue fighting, landed two lethal blows etc. whereas Whitebeard was doomed to die after receiving those hits. Hancock, worlds strongest female pirate based on her title of empress, is much weaker than Linlin. Just two examples.
ashura doji fought well against jack but was equal to a one legged inu so I dont know anymore. The short fight with kyoshiro , I wont hold much against him, he came off a toad oil "treatment" after killer put a hole in his chest and had two swords (no shusui) . he was alright.
people watching said they fought on par but he was clearly gassed tho.
after his fight with kyoshiro was when he became adamant about meeting benkei again to take shusui back. He needs 3 blades much more than we realize.
people watching said they fought on par but he was clearly gassed tho.
after his fight with kyoshiro was when he became adamant about meeting benkei again to take shusui back. He needs 3 blades much more than we realize.
That's not context, this is context:
Shiten was beating no Jack, he was stalemating him & Jack wasn't even powered up.
Whatchu talking about Zoro giving his best? I haven't seen Zoro use Ichi Gorilla, his Asura wasn't activated. He used a nameless attack.
Here's some more context for you. Zoro was breathless, screamed out in pain etc. etc. nameless or not, Zoro was fighting for his fucking life. He was on breaking point.
Official diagnosis: you all have Socio-Emotional Agnosia and are totally incapable of reading facial expressions, which are a key method of communicating information through drawings. It explains your incredibly warped views i suppose.
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nothing suggest it was the weakest gravity
it wasnt all of his strength but he certainly exerted himself
the slash did push fuji back forcing him to call the residents to safety. it was enough to take him serious.
if thats his portrayal againt an admiral who I percieve are close to yonkos themselves, its very good.
nothing suggest it was the weakest gravity
it wasnt all of his strength but he certainly exerted himself
the slash did push fuji back forcing him to call the residents to safety. it was enough to take him serious.
if thats his portrayal againt an admiral who I percieve are close to yonkos themselves, its very good.
n
nothing suggest it was the weakest gravity
it wasnt all of his strength but he certainly exerted himself
the slash did push fuji back forcing him to call the residents to safety. it was enough to take him serious.
nothing suggest it was the weakest gravity
it wasnt all of his strength but he certainly exerted himself
the slash did push fuji back forcing him to call the residents to safety. it was enough to take him serious.
Of course Fuji acknowledged his strength, Fujitora's a very fair person. He was also simply doing his job. BUT being pushed back means nothing. Like, Luffy smashed the fuck out of Fujitora with G3, sent him flying, and yet Fujitora was totally unharmed. In fact, he brushed it off completely like it was nothing. The force was enough to push him, but nothing was ever going to come of it. Same applies here. It's an impressive feat, but it doesn't put you above Asura Doji or Kyoshiro.
fujitora wasnt sent flying in g3 , he was also pushed back.
as for ashura doji and kyoshiro, zoro didnt look more impressive than kyoshiro in their bout for sure . comparisons to ashura doji can be vague since he is yet to face a commander like jack at the same time , we have not seen law or kid do so either but I assume people rank those two above these people. we just have to wait and see
as for ashura doji and kyoshiro, zoro didnt look more impressive than kyoshiro in their bout for sure . comparisons to ashura doji can be vague since he is yet to face a commander like jack at the same time , we have not seen law or kid do so either but I assume people rank those two above these people. we just have to wait and see