Powers & Abilities How big of a difference does weapon grade make?

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

This thread has no agenda behind it. I'm simply curious for curiosity sake.

We know that weapon upgrades are usually how Oda decides to give Zoro a powerup. The question is how significant a change in weapon grade is for a swordsman's attack power and lethality.

In this scenario, let us use the greatest swordsman to have ever lived and have them perform their strongest sword swing. The only difference between the swings is the weapon they're holding.

Swing #1 - They are using a non graded Blade
Swing #2 - They are using one of the 50 Skillful Blades
Swing #3 - They are using one of the 21 Great Blades
Swing #4 - They are using one of the 12 Supreme Blades

The answer here doesn't really need to be objective. I just want to see what you guys think. How does the attack power differ from each swing. We know there should be a difference but, how big do you think it is? As a reminder, this is a swordsman who has reached the peak of swordsmanship so their strength and skill is at the max. The only difference here is the weapon they are using to execute their techniques.

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[Gran D. Master]

I'd say the higher weapon grade, the more of your power (haki) you are able to channel through it, resulting in a stronger attack

 

[Finalbeta]

A huge difference.

Yoru is clearly way superior to any of Zoro's katana, even Shusui.

Not to mention Yoru is also the strongest Saijo sword as stated in the manga.

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

I'd say the higher weapon grade, the more of your power (haki) you are able to channel through it, resulting in a stronger attack

How big or marginal do you think the difference is though between grades?

 

[Rosella.Fiamingo]

A huge difference.

Yoru is clearly way superior to any of Zoro's katana, even Shusui.

Not to mention Yoru is also the strongest Saijo sword as stated in the manga.

So, take Yoru away from Mihawk and replace it with a blade of equivalent style but of Great grade instead. How much does Mihawk's Attack Potency decrease?

 

[Finalbeta]

So, take Yoru away from Mihawk and replace it with a blade of equivalent style but of Great grade instead. How much does Mihawk's Attack Potency decrease?

No way to tell. That depends on Oda and how he judges WSS. It clearly refers to the individual but swords are a prominent part of a swordsman.

Imagine if Akainu was WSM and then lost his magma logia with some impossible magic.

 

[Gran D. Master]

How big or marginal do you think the difference is though between grades?

Enormous. I mean even enma wasn't of the highest grade. I think having a Saijo O wazamono weapon is so important for characters who are top of the world in terms of power, i.e. Mihawk, Whitebeard, is because a lower grade weapon would literally shatter from the sheer intensity of their haki they are channeling through it

 

[Jew D. Boy]

I’m interested in @wordyworm ’s opinion as well, but I’m also of the belief that the grade definitely affects (and improves) the power of a swordsman’s strike. Throughout the series, we’ve seen Zoro/others hone their skills in leaps and bounds on their own merit, but at least in the case of the marimo, his physical growth has corresponded pretty closely to the higher caliber of the swords he keeps getting. I don’t know if he leaves Wano with Shusui, opts/has little choice but to keep Enma, somehow ends up with Ame no Habakiri, or otherwise acquired a blade of better quality than he showed up with, but regardless of the outcome, he’ll continue getting stronger as his swords rise in rank.

 

[Albino 👑]

The higher the tier of sword the stronger it should make the user but idk by how much exactly cause i don't they all help as much. Even the ones in the same grade

Enormous. I mean even enma wasn't of the highest grade. I think having a Saijo O wazamono weapon is so important for characters who are top of the world in terms of power, i.e. Mihawk, Whitebeard, is because a lower grade weapon would literally shatter from the sheer intensity of their haki they are channeling through it

Shouldn't their haki be the thing stopping weapos from breaking?
Like if zoro used a random sword if his haki was strong enough the sword shouldn't break

 

[Gran D. Master]

Shouldn't their haki be the thing stopping weapos from breaking?
Like if zoro used a random sword if his haki was strong enough the sword shouldn't break

Haki isn't an externally applied armor. It has to be channeled through the weapon somebody is using, and I believe that weapons have a limit to how much of it can flow through them. Even the early episode of Wano showed something like that when Zoro broke the fodder sword he was fighting with

 

[Uncle Van]

COA is a finite source. The more advanced your haki, the more of your haki pool is used up so ACOA should be used sparingly. Grade Weapons minimizes the need to use up your haki; the higher the grade, the higher the durability and attack power.

Let's use Zoro vs King as an example....Zoro constantly needs to use COA on his weapons in order to cut King and block his attacks. This would out Zoro on a timer since his haki is finite, and he'd be powerless if it runs out. Turning Enma black? The weapon now has the ability to block and damage King without Zoro using COA.

 

[Kucing Pencuri]

Quite huge. When Zoro clash with Mihawk's Yoru, two of his sword broken, but one of his sword that is grade sword not broken. And for haki, people above already explain well.

 

[Reborn]

First of all don't see swords as just a weapon.

In one piece, a swordsman has to try to become one with his sword to achieve higher level of swordsmanship..

Now your question is what weapon upgrades does?

Let's go back to DBZ (Majin Buu saga)when Gohan was getting trained with a sword. We all thought that the sword itself is important but it turned out that sword purpose was to refine the power to within the user who masters it...


Mihawk said that all swords can become black...

but we can infer that higher the upgrade of that sword,more difficult it would be to make it black (Enma)

In one piece swords with higher upgrades definitely are more durable but their real usage lies in - higher the upgrade of sword, more difficult it would be to tame it and master it as it would require higher amount of haki and mastery over your own haki.

If someone gets higher grade of sword then he is basically training his swordsmanship skills and haki thus making him grow stronger.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

As a reminder, this is a swordsman who has reached the peak of swordsmanship so their strength and skill is at the max

This swordsman can just turn the sword into a black blade and the sword itself would just literally rise into another rank by the swordsman's power

There's no actual measure you can even assume in these situations since skill matters so much in this. And sometime sometimes skill requirements change according to which sword you have. Like the skill requirements to handle Nidai Kitetsu are different from the skill requirements to Enma yet they are both 21 grade swords

Aa far as we can tell, higher grade swords have more durability and are sharper and that's about it. The actual measure of how much power can be generated changes from swordsman to swordsman. For example Zoro gets Shusui and attempts to do a 108 pound Phoenix and he fails because of power imbalances since he didn't have the skill to handle that sword. Later on when Zoro trains with the sword, there's no visible difference between how Zoro uses all the swords. Shusui, Wado and even the lower grade sandai seem to do pretty much the same thing since Zoro's skill and strength doesn't change from one sword to another so the swords don't seemingly matter at this power level. Then when Zoro gets Enma, he trains to make the sword behave like his supposedly weaker swords, he is told that if he reaches at a certain power level, he himself can literally make the sword better by turning it black.

Therefore better swords translate into more durable swords and sharper swords, but this doesn't automatically translate into better attack power even at any power level of the swordsman. If the swordsman is weak, he won't handle the power balance, if the swordsman is sufficient, he's supposed to make the sword work like any other sword, like how Shusui is no different from any other sword later on and how Enma is supposed to behave like any other sword when Zoro masters it and if the swordsman is at max level, then they can literally make the sword even better than it was already by turning it black

 

[trav]

minor difference.

the first 108 with Shusui is what made people think that sword grade has a huge impact, yet the flying slashes from Wado Ichimonji and Sandai Kitetsu were exactly the same.

just recently Zoro threw a 720 as Kyoshiro where both parts of the attack were equal while one came from Wado and the other came from Sandai Kitetsu.

that makes me believe that something about Shusui was special instead of the grade being the deciding factor. something that made Shusui well suited for flying slashes.
and I am not talking about black blade here.
I attributed it to Shusuis weight compared to the other blades.

graded bladed have more beneficial properties. they do not necessarily affect every attack.

Shusui > Wado/Sandai for pound ho.
Wado is lighter and thus faster.
Kitetsu is sharp, but unruly.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

that makes me believe that something about Shusui was special instead of the grade being the deciding factor. something that made Shusui well suited for flying slashed.

I doubt it. I think Shusui had a bigger slash because Zoro wasn't used to it is all.

Like post time skip we've seen Zoro do 1080 pound canon and there was no difference between the slash sizes. It think this because Zoro got used to Shusui by then and could regulate how much power to output in order to create a balance with all three that works.

This is the same principle as Enma. Enma also does unnecessary damage when Zoro can't handle it and he is training with it to make sure that it No longer does unnecessary damage. Meaning at the end of the training, Enma will behave like every other sword Zoro has. Like when Zoro wants to cut a tree, Enma will cut a tree, same way eevery other sword would also cut that tree.

Of course you can say Shusui is stronger than Sandai Kitetsu and wado Ichimonji and Enma is also whacky with the Haki draining stuff, BUT none of these power differences on matter to unskilled swordsmen. Unskilled swordsmen are the ones who can balance Shusui's power and are the ones who get knocked out by Enma. When Zoro trains to et strong enough to handle Shusui and Enma, he can literally make them do as much damage as Sandai which is two ranks below them. And if Zoro ascends even the level of just being a good swordsman, he can literally make the sword stronger than it originally was by turning it black.

Therefore in a way, The difference in sword grades only matters in that Zoro himself has to get stronger to use swords of a higher grade because when he actually starts fighting, all the swords has has have to behave he same way if he's good enough.

 

[Rivaille]

1/If we consider that the grade of the sword define the strength of the swordsman and that the stronger the sword = the stronger the swordsman, that means that Ryuma was held back by Shusui.

2/ If we consider that the grade of the sword define the difficulty that the swordsman will have to tame it which means the difficulty that the swordsman will have to fully use it, that means that the stronger the swordsman the easier it is to tame a sword.

Imo it is number 2. I think that every sword need to be tame at some point. The stronger the swordsman the easier it is to tame the sword. Taming the sword will allow the swordsman to use his full power with the sword.

For example, Tashigi will be unable to fully use her swordsmanship style with Yoru but Mihawk will have no issue to fully use the power of Shigure.

Did Zoro was held back before using Enma? No.
Did Zoro became magically stronger when he grab Enma? No.

To tame Enma, Zoro need to refine his haki. He need to reach a certain level of mastery. When he will reach that level he fill be able to use Enma exactly like he use Sandai Kitetsu.

Basically the swords are a testament of the swordsman strength and/or haki mastery. The higher the grade of the sword the swordsman can tame, the stronger the swordsman is.
Which is why Mihawk turning Yoru permanently black is a tremendous feat. And this also why I think that Zoro will probably discover that he was not using Shusui and the Wado Ichimonji at their full potential.

Because my explanation does not mean that the sword does not have their own characteristics. They do.
What I’m saying is that to be able to use the said characteristics when you want while being able to fully use your own swordsmanship style requires a certain level. Either of strength or of haki mastery.

For example, Shusui is heavier than the other swords Zoro have so to fully used it he need to become stronger while Enma does not require more strength but more Haki mastery.

 

[trav]

@ImmaIvanoM Zoro said something to that effect so you may be right.

the swordsman should make the sword. not the other way arround.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

It do makes difference and a considerate one, hence all reknown swordmans or characters usually carry Name swords. Mihawk has Yoru, Shanks, WB, or others. Zoro also has his swords which are his precious possessions, enough for him to chase after DR wanda or Gyukimaru, if it did not make any difference he woukd have picked random sword and get on with it.

Swordman and sword are dependent on each other, a sword on his own can't do anything and same is true for swordmans to most degree. Hence each sword is difficult to tame by users, it could be believed if sword has it's own will, it only allows those wielder to yield/tame them that can properly utilise em to full of their abilities.

 

[ImmaIvanoM]

Mihawk has Yoru

But as we learned, making a black blade makes your sword rise in rank.

It's very possible that Yoru was a random sword that got turned into a black blade and rose to supreme grade status.