Character Discussion Vol. 102 SBS proves that Zoro will be recognized as the official Vice Captain/First Mate/副船長 (Fuku Senchō) of the Strawhats at some point before EOS
- Thread starter ConquistadoR
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- Tags first mate roronoa zoro silvers rayleigh vice captain
Bolded bit is not really true. A lot is made about Uroge's comment with regards to Zoro on Shabondy but the reality is that Absalom has also made a similar comment about Sanji which people seem to conveniently ignore.
What the hell is this strength!! His he really an underling!?
What the hell is this strength!! His he really an underling!?
Franky fodder: "Why is he not the Captain"
Absaldom: "Is he really an underling/surbordinate"
Since both stated it when Sanji/Zoro show their strength
Whilst Queen's statement about Sanji being number 2, is similar to Barto and Urouge's. Who have nothing but Bounties to base it off.
They don't need to be referred to with specifically the same term, Zoro and Sanji are grouped as "Wings" because they are Luffy's top 2 men, which is not some novel concept that only applies to them.
Marco and Jozu is an example because they were clearly setup as Whitebeard's top 2 men. They were literally introduced as a pair -
and when the Marineford war started, they were the ones that got highlighted defending Whitebeard -
Vista was not conveniently forgotten, in the very same chapter that Marco and Jozu got to show off above, Vista were introduced with the rest of the division commanders with significantly less focus -
Similarly, King and Queen are clearly Kaido's top 2 men. They are introduced as a pair and have multiple pairing throughout Wano. I don't think its even arguable based on Jack's showing in Wano that he is a distant third.
i mean the fact that you pointed out that Marco/Jozu and King/Queen are part of this broader group that ostensibly have the same rank/authority just drives home the point that sharing the same title doesn’t mean you are equal. What is so special about the wings title that it means complete equality? I don’t think Birds need equal strong wings to fly just as humans don’t need equally strong legs to walk or equally strong arms (hence the term right hand and left hand)
Scopper has essentially been a no show for the manga right now. We basically have no info on his personality for us to definitively state that Sanji and him are not similar.
Regardless, if you agreed that Rayleigh and Scopper is the closest parallel to Zoro and Sanji pairing, I am not sure what there is to argue that Sanji has to be the Scopper in the pairing. The Zoro-Rayleigh parallel isn’t exactly subtle (they even share similar King title now) while all I have seen in terms of Sanji-Rayleigh similarities is that they are both blonde, Rayleigh kicks once, and they both like women (despite the fact that Rayleigh never shown any of the simping-gags that Sanji has), and subjective bs that some people push for like “Rayleigh is smart like Sanji while Zoro is stupid”(?). IMO Thats the level of similarity that have some people convinced that Sanji was going to fight King
We are in agreement here, I doubt Oda will elevate anyone to a specific authority figure or specifically say X > Y but hes also going to have one match up against the #2 and another go up against the #3 in major arcs, one is going to end up with the higher bounty for most of the series.
Marco and Jozu is an example because they were clearly setup as Whitebeard's top 2 men. They were literally introduced as a pair -
and when the Marineford war started, they were the ones that got highlighted defending Whitebeard -
Vista was not conveniently forgotten, in the very same chapter that Marco and Jozu got to show off above, Vista were introduced with the rest of the division commanders with significantly less focus -
Similarly, King and Queen are clearly Kaido's top 2 men. They are introduced as a pair and have multiple pairing throughout Wano. I don't think its even arguable based on Jack's showing in Wano that he is a distant third.
i mean the fact that you pointed out that Marco/Jozu and King/Queen are part of this broader group that ostensibly have the same rank/authority just drives home the point that sharing the same title doesn’t mean you are equal. What is so special about the wings title that it means complete equality? I don’t think Birds need equal strong wings to fly just as humans don’t need equally strong legs to walk or equally strong arms (hence the term right hand and left hand)
Scopper has essentially been a no show for the manga right now. We basically have no info on his personality for us to definitively state that Sanji and him are not similar.
Regardless, if you agreed that Rayleigh and Scopper is the closest parallel to Zoro and Sanji pairing, I am not sure what there is to argue that Sanji has to be the Scopper in the pairing. The Zoro-Rayleigh parallel isn’t exactly subtle (they even share similar King title now) while all I have seen in terms of Sanji-Rayleigh similarities is that they are both blonde, Rayleigh kicks once, and they both like women (despite the fact that Rayleigh never shown any of the simping-gags that Sanji has), and subjective bs that some people push for like “Rayleigh is smart like Sanji while Zoro is stupid”(?). IMO Thats the level of similarity that have some people convinced that Sanji was going to fight King
We are in agreement here, I doubt Oda will elevate anyone to a specific authority figure or specifically say X > Y but hes also going to have one match up against the #2 and another go up against the #3 in major arcs, one is going to end up with the higher bounty for most of the series.
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Bolded bit is not really true. A lot is made about Uroge's comment with regards to Zoro on Shabondy but the reality is that Absalom has also made a similar comment about Sanji which people seem to conveniently ignore.
What the hell is this strength!! His he really an underling!?
What the hell is this strength!! His he really an underling!?
- Already has acted as the first mate in dire situations.
- Was stated in the Vivre Card to act like a First Mate/Vice Captain.
- Explicitly forshadowed by Bartolomeo in DR.
- His direct parallel in Rayleigh was canonically the First Mate of the Roger Pirates. Even with a second fiddle in Gaban.
But ok lol. It's solely because I want it to be that way and for no other reason 😂.
- Was stated in the Vivre Card to act like a First Mate/Vice Captain.
- Explicitly forshadowed by Bartolomeo in DR.
- His direct parallel in Rayleigh was canonically the First Mate of the Roger Pirates. Even with a second fiddle in Gaban.
But ok lol. It's solely because I want it to be that way and for no other reason 😂.
Oda basically confirmed what we already knew. Zoro is not officially the Vice Captain of the Straw Hats, and personally, I don't think he'll ever be. However, he serves the role of one in every sense, and guides the crew at times when Luffy cannot. Even characters in universe mistake him for one.
He is, at this moment, the only other Straw Hat besides Luffy to possess Conqueror's haki. And so far, most Conqueror's that we've met have either been the leaders of their group, or worked directly under another Conqueror. There is the Rocks pirates, where 3 confirmed Conqueror's worked under Xebec. Though he's not confirmed, it's a safe guess he possesses Conqueror's.
That leaves Sengoku as the only exception, but we've seen him act against the wishes of his superiors at times. And now he's semi retired, doing what he pleases.
In Zoro's case, he is a Conqueror to a T. Aside from his ambition to be the strongest, he refused to join any group or organization unless he was the boss.
Zoro is described by various characters as not a follower by nature. That someone like him should be the Captain, and possesses high standards for Luffy.
From a pure story perspective, Zoro as a subordinate is viewed as an anomaly, serving to highlight himself as well as Luffy for managing to recruit him. That is diminished if he's deferring to multiple people. And when coupled with that, along with his disposition as a King and leader, he has all the ingredients for most viable Vice Captain/First Mate candidate of the crew, even if it's in an unofficial capacity.
He is, at this moment, the only other Straw Hat besides Luffy to possess Conqueror's haki. And so far, most Conqueror's that we've met have either been the leaders of their group, or worked directly under another Conqueror. There is the Rocks pirates, where 3 confirmed Conqueror's worked under Xebec. Though he's not confirmed, it's a safe guess he possesses Conqueror's.
That leaves Sengoku as the only exception, but we've seen him act against the wishes of his superiors at times. And now he's semi retired, doing what he pleases.
In Zoro's case, he is a Conqueror to a T. Aside from his ambition to be the strongest, he refused to join any group or organization unless he was the boss.
Zoro is described by various characters as not a follower by nature. That someone like him should be the Captain, and possesses high standards for Luffy.
From a pure story perspective, Zoro as a subordinate is viewed as an anomaly, serving to highlight himself as well as Luffy for managing to recruit him. That is diminished if he's deferring to multiple people. And when coupled with that, along with his disposition as a King and leader, he has all the ingredients for most viable Vice Captain/First Mate candidate of the crew, even if it's in an unofficial capacity.
Oda basically confirmed what we already knew. Zoro is not officially the Vice Captain of the Straw Hats, and personally, I don't think he'll ever be. However, he serves the role of one in every sense, and guides the crew at times when Luffy cannot. Even characters in universe mistake him for one.
He is, at this moment, the only other Straw Hat besides Luffy to possess Conqueror's haki. And so far, most Conqueror's that we've met have either been the leaders of their group, or worked directly under another Conqueror. There is the Rocks pirates, where 3 confirmed Conqueror's worked under Xebec. Though he's not confirmed, it's a safe guess he possesses Conqueror's.
That leaves Sengoku as the only exception, but we've seen him act against the wishes of his superiors at times. And now he's semi retired, doing what he pleases.
In Zoro's case, he is a Conqueror to a T. Aside from his ambition to be the strongest, he refused to join any group or organization unless he was the boss.
Zoro is described by various characters as not a follower by nature. That someone like him should be the Captain, and possesses high standards for Luffy.
From a pure story perspective, Zoro as a subordinate is viewed as an anomaly, serving to highlight himself as well as Luffy for managing to recruit him. That is diminished if he's deferring to multiple people. And when coupled with that, along with his disposition as a King and leader, he has all the ingredients for most viable Vice Captain/First Mate candidate of the crew, even if it's in an unofficial capacity.
He is, at this moment, the only other Straw Hat besides Luffy to possess Conqueror's haki. And so far, most Conqueror's that we've met have either been the leaders of their group, or worked directly under another Conqueror. There is the Rocks pirates, where 3 confirmed Conqueror's worked under Xebec. Though he's not confirmed, it's a safe guess he possesses Conqueror's.
That leaves Sengoku as the only exception, but we've seen him act against the wishes of his superiors at times. And now he's semi retired, doing what he pleases.
In Zoro's case, he is a Conqueror to a T. Aside from his ambition to be the strongest, he refused to join any group or organization unless he was the boss.
Zoro is described by various characters as not a follower by nature. That someone like him should be the Captain, and possesses high standards for Luffy.
From a pure story perspective, Zoro as a subordinate is viewed as an anomaly, serving to highlight himself as well as Luffy for managing to recruit him. That is diminished if he's deferring to multiple people. And when coupled with that, along with his disposition as a King and leader, he has all the ingredients for most viable Vice Captain/First Mate candidate of the crew, even if it's in an unofficial capacity.
We are following Zoro story as well. Oda puts Luffy in the front, but he never shied away from who Zoro is supposed to be. If blocking Hakai wasn't obvious that Oda respects Zoro strength, he also is viewed as the toughest on the crew. Oda is trying to create an op swordsman, that no one can match. Him getting ACoC, was all I needed, to be sure that Zoro will stand equal to Luffy in the end of the series. To better understand what zoro is for the SH's, picture Kaido on the BM pirates.
Zoro will be dubbed the vice-captain of SH's after Wano. :cheers:
Exactly! People forget, Sanji looks up to Zoro when he isnt trying to compete with him. Sanji joined the crew, because of two guys are willing to die for their dream. That be Luffy and Zoro, standing firm on these dreams, made Sanji follow their lead. Sanji didnt want either of them to die and tried to be cool about it.
Zoro will be dubbed the vice-captain of SH's after Wano. :cheers:
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Exactly! People forget, Sanji looks up to Zoro when he isnt trying to compete with him. Sanji joined the crew, because of two guys are willing to die for their dream. That be Luffy and Zoro, standing firm on these dreams, made Sanji follow their lead. Sanji didnt want either of them to die and tried to be cool about it.
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Well the argument being made was that only Zoro has ever been held in that light which I disproved with the panel above.
Doesn't really matter how many more times Zoro has had this said about him than Sanji has, point is a similar statement has also been made about Sanji as well ^^. Like Zoro, Sanji is not underling calibre. Plus as opposed to Zoro, Sanji is someone who almost always acts under the radar, so unfortunately he doesn't have as many opportunities, to really show his worth to the public like Zoro does (which I reckon Oda does on purpose) but even then, Oda didn't miss the chance to make a similar statement about Sanji with Absalom
Doesn't really matter how many more times Zoro has had this said about him than Sanji has, point is a similar statement has also been made about Sanji as well ^^. Like Zoro, Sanji is not underling calibre. Plus as opposed to Zoro, Sanji is someone who almost always acts under the radar, so unfortunately he doesn't have as many opportunities, to really show his worth to the public like Zoro does (which I reckon Oda does on purpose) but even then, Oda didn't miss the chance to make a similar statement about Sanji with Absalom
I don't lie my good sir, its over 10 times its mentioned pre-ts alone.
I don't want to take away from Sanji but what @Reborn stated isn't proven incorrect.
Absalom statement is similar to that of Kaku's statement about Sanji as well.
Stephen Translation :
Kaku: {That was a very heavy kick...!! He almost broke the "Tekkai."}
Blueno!! Be careful!! He may not have a bounty,
but I think he's one of their principal fighters!!
Compared comments like this towards Zoro and as I mentioned Zoro gets comments like this over 10 times pre-ts
Well the argument being made was that only Zoro has ever been held in that light which I disproved with the panel above.
Doesn't really matter how many more times Zoro has had this said about him than Sanji has, point is a similar statement has also been made about Sanji as well ^^. Like Zoro, Sanji is not underling calibre. Plus as opposed to Zoro, Sanji is someone who almost always acts under the radar, so unfortunately he doesn't have as many opportunities, to really show his worth to the public like Zoro does (which I reckon Oda does on purpose) but even then, Oda didn't miss the chance to make a similar statement about Sanji with Absalom
Doesn't really matter how many more times Zoro has had this said about him than Sanji has, point is a similar statement has also been made about Sanji as well ^^. Like Zoro, Sanji is not underling calibre. Plus as opposed to Zoro, Sanji is someone who almost always acts under the radar, so unfortunately he doesn't have as many opportunities, to really show his worth to the public like Zoro does (which I reckon Oda does on purpose) but even then, Oda didn't miss the chance to make a similar statement about Sanji with Absalom
Absalom statement is similar to that of Kaku's statement about Sanji as well.
Stephen Translation :
Kaku: {That was a very heavy kick...!! He almost broke the "Tekkai."}
Blueno!! Be careful!! He may not have a bounty,
but I think he's one of their principal fighters!!
Compared comments like this towards Zoro and as I mentioned Zoro gets comments like this over 10 times pre-ts