General & Others Ace’s Novel : Part 2

[Fujishiro]

No, as I said you just repeated a wall of filler. And you are doing it again.



Nope. Kaido has never been referred to as the actual WSC. It's all literary there. I even circled the parts. You just had to click on the picture and see it. Alas, I'll post it again.

Spoiler

Raw Japanese contains the quotation marks as well

Spoiler

Oda went out of his way to make it such. There's no panel in the manga where Kaido is introduced as the WSC. Only hearsay and rumors.
'People say' 'It is said' 'is often called' etc
The same rumors like Luffy being a monster who is 25 foot tall

Spoiler

Irrelevant.



Kaido possesses no title. That's the whole point.



Covered this above. It never says that he is the WSC.



Nope. That's just an editor comment and it does not appear in the Viz.

Spoiler

That's why I said you wrote a wall of filler. Before you quote me please read what I wrote.



Roger wanted to meet Oden.

Spoiler

He wanted him on his crew. He even begged WB to allow Oden to come with him.

Spoiler

Roger didn't have killing intent there. Oden was in awe when he saw Roger and WB go at it.

Spoiler

From the above we can infer that Roger was testing Oden and didn't go all in against him, as opposed to Kaido, who was fighting for his life.

The manga states that when Oden comes back to Wano he grew stronger in his voyages.

Spoiler

He met Roger on his 4th year of travelling.

Spoiler

He then travelled with Roger for a year. And after that he returned to Wano. He mainly searched for poneglyphs so it is possible he peaked by the time he clashed with Roger, or just grew marginally stronger while searching for poneglyphs and dancing for 5 years.



That was to illustrate that Oden on guard can fight base Kaido.

No man if the manga states he came back many times stronger then thats all there is to it, his fight with roger was years prior. Lets not twist things baby.Roger also didnt know that Oden could read the poneglyphs until after the battle by they way, so no. As far as we know he was going at it seriously. And yes im aware of the whitebeard/Roger panel. Look, i never said kaido was stronger than primebeard, im saying that this novel once again said what we already knew. That Current kaido> Oldbeard. Thats all.

All im saying is that more things point towards him being the current strongest right now than not, wouldnt you agree?

 

[Cyrus the Cactus]

A little point here as well. You could probably use that to argue that the title refers to humans, although the manga casts doubts upon that. But here's the thing. Oda, obviously couldn't have used the World's strongest MAN title for the mother (a female), nor could he have used the world's strongest swordsman title, again it refers to a man, and even if the WSS is the strongest in OP, it doesn't necessarily mean that the people would understand it that way. Basically the only neutral title was the creature title, and I said maybe you can use it to argue that it includes humans, but that's about it. Another thing is that Kaido has never been referred to as the actual WSC, as I said in the post you quoted it's always with some nuance around it. That's actually my biggest gripe with Kaido. Oda didn't have a problem naming WS title holders much earlier in the story. He said WB is the WSM, gave him an intro box, everything was clear, he said Mihawk is the WSS, gave him an intro box, everything was clear. However, on his own accord, he chose to differentiate with Kaido. Subtle hints imo.

Kenshi is gender neutral, just a heads up :cheers:

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

No man if the manga states he came back many times stronger then thats all there is to it, his fight with roger was years prior. Lets not twist things baby.R

My man, the manga states he came back stronger thanks to his voyages. His voyages lasted 5 years. He encountered Roger on his 4th year of travelling.
Oden was a pirate for 5 years. He met WB 30 years ago and went with him. He met Roger 26 years ago and went with him. 25 years ago he returned to Wano. Danced for 5 years, and was executed by Kaido 20 years ago.
The panel that says he grew stronger appeared when he came back to Wano 25 years ago. Chapter 969. When Oden goes to attack Orochi. Then he spent 5 years dancing.
His 5 years of travelling made him stronger, but he encountered Roger on his 4th year of travelling and spent the next year travelling with them. As I said he could have grown a bit stronger than, marginally, and that's it. I am not trying to twist anything my man.

As far as we know he was going at it seriously.

I mean, I didn';t say he was dicking around. But we saw serious Roger a moment later and it was nothing like the first time.

All im saying is that more things point towards him being the current strongest right now than not, wouldnt you agree?

As I said earlier, there are a lot of nuances being made to sway away from it. Moreover, basic shonen tropes indicate Kaido will not be the peak of OP world and go down with multiple arcs left. We can agree to disagree. I need something more concrete.

Kenshi is gender neutral, just a heads up :cheers:

Aye got it. Then it just the second thing I said.

 

[Fujishiro]

My man, the manga states he came back stronger thanks to his voyages. His voyages lasted 5 years. He encountered Roger on his 4th year of travelling.
Oden was a pirate for 5 years. He met WB 30 years ago and went with him. He met Roger 26 years ago and went with him. 25 years ago he returned to Wano. Danced for 5 years, and was executed by Kaido 20 years ago.
The panel that says he grew stronger appeared when he came back to Wano 25 years ago. Chapter 969. When Oden goes to attack Orochi. Then he spent 5 years dancing.
His 5 years of travelling made him stronger, but he encountered Roger on his 4th year of travelling and spent the next year travelling with them. As I said he could have grown a bit stronger than, marginally, and that's it. I am not trying to twist anything my man.



I mean, I didn';t say he was dicking around. But we saw serious Roger a moment later and it was nothing like the first time.

As I said earlier, there are a lot of nuances being made to sway away from it. Moreover, basic shonen tropes indicate Kaido will not be the peak of OP world and go down with multiple arcs left. We can agree to disagree. I need something more concrete.



Aye got it. Then it just the second thing I said.

Whitebeard went down at marineford yet he was hailed as the strongest, enel wouldve mopped the floor with everyone pre skip, magellan would beat ceasar and possibly doffy. One piece never followed those tropes to begin with, and if wano is lasting 1.5 more years with on piece ending in 5, that leaves place for 2-3 arcs. If it takes a huge team effort to beat kaido which is what its shaping up to be, and then luffy solos or duos another top tier in the next arc before fighting blacbkeard solo then it doesnt detract from kaidos strength at all. I mean Cp0, who had no problem showing up at a place they knew the blackbeard pirates and the revolutionaries were were shook by just the mention of Kaido's name. I agree there are nuances, but this is too much. Oda keeps hammering that kaido is strongest everywhere but people cling to these and are super nitpicky about it.

Im just saying that the man had more hype and top tiers hyping him( big mom, blackbeard) than anyone else.

 

[Light D Lamperouge]

Whitebeard went down at marineford yet he was hailed as the strongest,

Sick old WB on medicine is not the strongest. We saw his prime version and it was vastly more impressive than in MF.

enel wouldve mopped the floor with everyone pre skip,

Iirc Oda said he regrets introducing Croco and Enel so early on. Moreover, Luffy was literally made to take down Enel as he was his natural weakness.

magellan would beat ceasar and possibly doffy.

Ceaser probably, Doffy not quite imo. But that's a different topic.

One piece never followed those tropes to begin with, and if wano is lasting 1.5 more years with on piece ending in 5, that leaves place for 2-3 arcs. If it takes a huge team effort to beat kaido which is what its shaping up to be, and then luffy solos or duos another top tier in the next arc before fighting blacbkeard solo then it doesnt detract from kaidos strength at all.

It does actually. Every major antagonist is usually stronger than the previous ones. I already explained about Enel and Croco. We have no idea how long it';s gonna last or how the battle will go down. That's why I said I need something more concrete.

I mean Cp0, who had no problem showing up at a place they knew the blackbeard pirates and the revolutionaries were were shook by just the mention of Kaido's name.

I talked about this in the previous posts.


As I said we can agree to disagree so far, we'll revisit this when more info shows up. With the current info, it's highly debatable.

 

[Fujishiro]

Sick old WB on medicine is not the strongest. We saw his prime version and it was vastly more impressive than in MF.


Iirc Oda said he regrets introducing Croco and Enel so early on. Moreover, Luffy was literally made to take down Enel as he was his natural weakness.



Ceaser probably, Doffy not quite imo. But that's a different topic.



It does actually. Every major antagonist is usually stronger than the previous ones. I already explained about Enel and Croco. We have no idea how long it';s gonna last or how the battle will go down. That's why I said I need something more concrete.



I talked about this in the previous posts.


As I said we can agree to disagree so far, we'll revisit this when more info shows up. With the current info, it's highly debatable.

What he regrets or not and luffy being enrols natural weakness is irrelevant. I just meant to say that one piece doesn’t follow common shonen tropes overall.

I didn’t see your cpo quote, I’ll go look up.
Alright man, let’s agree to disagree :p

Have a nice day/night tho! I liked this little debate we just had.

 

[Haoshoku]

I have a feeling that the powerlevels in the novel are just what the public is believing.
Because if kaido falls now (which is the case), then the absolute strongest would be already down, which would be bad writing for a shounen manga.

Nope. Even if we assume Kaido is the absolute strongest character in the verse right now, that only applies to this current timeframe. We already know Blackbeard is on the move and is a growing threat, meaning that Kaido is not at the pinnacle of the verse since we know he’s also not stronger than previous legends at their peaks, namely being WB and Roger.

And the fact that Shanks walked away from those fights unscathed

We don’t know this for a fact. As far as we can tell, Mihawk was at a level where he could scar Shanks, otherwise there’d be no reason for Shanks to bring him up here:

Spoiler

That alone pretty much showcases that Mihawk gave him a run for his money, otherwise there would be absolutely no need of mentioning this if Mihawk “couldn’t handle him”.

 

[kom5]

No, as I said you just repeated a wall of filler. And you are doing it again.

Filler is something that the author doesnt write/approve so its not a filler its Odas manga and in his manga Kaido is referred as such in the manga which is cannon

Nope. Kaido has never been referred to as the actual WSC. It's all literally there. I even circled the parts. You just had to click on the picture and see it. Alas, I'll post it again.

He is youre just the kind of person who just cant make accept anything if its not specific written there lol
He is said to be the strongest creature by multiple
Oda SBS
Law
Narrator
even in the novel

Luffys 25 foot example is a different its just a random citizen who has no credit in the manga
youre compare an ant with an giant and try to make an argument
he is the strongest living creature
Viz is not above Odas editor btw Viz is just an translator who bought the rights of officially publish OP Stephan Paul is not above Oda or his editor

Oda went out of his way to make it such. There's no panel in the manga where Kaido is introduced as the WSC. Only hearsay and rumors.
'People say' 'It is said' 'is often called' etc
The same rumors like Luffy being a monster who is 25 foot tall

Again ant example to giant example
Its not the same
Dressrosa a random citizen and others who have far more credit are saying it there is also no box that formally introduced Kaido as an actual Yonko like Mihawk or Wb so does it mean he cant be a yonko too ?

There isnt any box that introduced Shanks as an Yonko too o.O because facts are only if its in a specific box

Irrelevant.

Irrelevant its not its what his title is a subtitle
As we know there can also be animals stronger than humans like in Luffys case in rukusina island
We still have sea kings and Zou
Kaido is "said" to be stronger than them all

Kaido possesses no title. That's the whole point.

he does xD why should refer the people to him if he doesnt possesses the title are they schizoid or something

Nope. That's just an editor comment and it does not appear in the Viz.

Editor above Viz

 

[Jo_Ndule]

And swordsmanship including having his physical stats maxed out (Zoro while training with heavy weight: "I have to become stronger") and having the highest mastery of Haki possible (Hyo: "by mastering Ryuo, the swordsman becomes one with the blade", Mihawk: "any blade can become a black blade, so master Haki). It's not just about skill.

By clashing with a base WB without harderning?

Roger swatted prime Oden away like a fly with his base power, to then continue and clash with base Primebeard, both using an attack far stronger than what was used to send Oden flying.

The clash was offpanel the next chapter, that's why WB says "yesterday you wanted to kill me..."
we know Oden didn't wanna take WB head at first when they met, so possibly Oden got pissed & continued fighting WB offscreen.

Swatting someone means nothing much
G4 swatted Katakuri yet was inferior ove, g3 blew fuji /sent down dragon Kaido ...
Also if Oden crosses blades with Roger, he wouldn't be sent flying. Roger was gonna end up sweating like Primebeard did.

Base WB (no koka) ~ Young Oden. in Strength , their clash was equal with none being blown back.
Prime Oden ~ base WB (koka)
WB with his OP koka will still need many attacks to beat Oden, fact! He can never 2 shots Oden.

"Oden came back many times stronger "
Whether he was with roger a year ago, one year is enough for someone to grow even a little.

Also Lol at people thinking Viz know OP better than Editors.

 

[HPsyche]

Whitebeard went down at marineford yet he was hailed as the strongest

Then you don't quite comprehend Whitebeard's strength.

Whitebeard went to Marineford in the worst state possible.

Being ill didn't make him weak, it just meant if he didn't take medication, he'd lose stability of health.

He chose to go to Marineford in the worst state possible and yet almost defeated the WG.

Whitebeard going to Marineford without medication to stabilise his health is no different to using Big Mom starving as benchmark for her strength.

Whitebeard handicapped himself and was still a threat to a WG fighting with all 3 Admirals and its entire elite and were still close to being wiped out.

Enel holds no candles to anyone; Enel got defeated by a Luffy that couldn't even use Gear 2nd. He'd get speed blitzed and beaten easily.

Oda keeps hammering that kaido is strongest everywhere but people cling to these and are super nitpicky about it.

He doesn't.

The only thing Oda brings up is the fact his flesh is impenetrable which is why he's the strongest creature. Not because he's the strongest man. He's not. That's a title only Whitebeard and Roger have held.

He's the strongest in terms of defensive natural ability, not the strongest in any other form.

 

[OEKaneki]

We don’t know this for a fact. As far as we can tell, Mihawk was at a level where he could scar Shanks, otherwise there’d be no reason for Shanks to bring him up here:

Spoiler

That alone pretty much showcases that Mihawk gave him a run for his money, otherwise there would be absolutely no need of mentioning this if Mihawk “couldn’t handle him”.

The next few words were quite literally “as best we can tell.”

From what we know, when they first started fighting, Shanks was an upstart rookie, Mihawk had been said to already been developing a name. Mihawk should have been able to cruise by him, but didn’t. He didn’t handle him like he should have been able to, thus he couldn’t. That’s part of the reason Shanks is famous.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

again this is assuming shanks started to peak 6 yrs after their battle and mihawk didnt even tho they are close to the same age. literally 2 yrs apart. you could argue shanks has more experience as a pirate being a child on the pk's crew but yeah he's still a rookie while mihawk had a great reputation. mihawk could have well have got a lot of his fame from these duels as well but this focuses on the 4 yonkos not him. when I push this narrative about luffy growing leaving law or kid in the dust , it seems so foreign, yet the age gap between mihawk and shanks is even smaller and we think one kept peaking while the other remained stagnant after their battle. apparently with one arm, he is stronger than what he was with two when all indications show thats not the case. lmao. wouldnt be a sacrifice if it was.
all the clashes we have seen, with other emperors , an admiral have been done with a sword. thinking mihawk with his sword aint doing much of the same is sorry thinking. how much info has to come again and again pitting these two as a duo before people begin to realize they are portrayed as a pair like wb and roger once were. last thing wb remembered him doing was fighting mihawk so who did he fight after that to reach "yonko level?" lmao.

 

[kurohime]

Also its worth noting Mihawk was said to SEEK OUT Shanks for their duels. Not the other way around. Why seek out someone you could easily beat

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Also its worth noting Mihawk was said to SEEK OUT Shanks for their duels. Not the other way around. Why seek out someone you could easily beat

so that again contradicts shanks being the smaller pirate in these encounters. shanks already had some reputation but the most infamous one seems to be the duels he had.

 

[Finalbeta]

Also its worth noting Mihawk was said to SEEK OUT Shanks for their duels. Not the other way around. Why seek out someone you could easily beat

WSS title tells us he the stronger swordsman doesn't matter who seeked who.

Also there is a chance Shanks was the stronger folk at the very beginning. Doesn't change the whole thing regardless still.

 

[kurohime]

WSS title tells us he the stronger swordsman doesn't matter who seeked who.

Also there is a chance Shanks was the stronger folk at the very beginning. Doesn't change the whole thing regardless still.

Yes it does. Mihawk himself says he doesnt bother to deal with small fries, but was continually seeking out Shanks... For what? He was the WSS. Was it to bully Shanks every chance he got? Why chase after Shanks if he was stronger from the beginning, which it seems like Mihawk was?

This Shanks vs Mihawk isnt black and white. The grey area is the truth of their rivalry.

The fact that Mihawk holds the WSS title having stopped fighting Shanks before Shanks was even at the height of his strength tells us something is off. Not sure what it is yet... But somethings not adding up and if you werent so biased you'd realize that.

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Two-armed Shanks defeated Mihawk, but once he had one arm, Mihawk won getting the WSS title by default.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Yes it does. Mihawk himself says he doesnt bother to deal with small fries, but was continually seeking out Shanks... For what? He was the WSS. Was it to bully Shanks every chance he got? Why chase after Shanks if he was stronger from the beginning, which it seems like Mihawk was?

This Shanks vs Mihawk isnt black and white. The grey area is the truth of their rivalry.

The fact that Mihawk holds the WSS title having stopped fighting Shanks before Shanks was even at the height of his strength tells us something is off. Not sure what it is yet... But somethings not adding up and if you werent so biased you'd realize that.

that is assuming he was not at the height of his strength 6 yrs prior to becoming a yonko . That is also assuming mihawk height of strength was 6 yrs prior. again who else did he take on after the famous duels with mihawk.
mihawk who fought him doesnt seem to think so. why would mihawk stop seeking someone stronger than him from what you have explained and then wait for someone else to surpass him when that person is right there.
shanks sees it as a sacrifice (losing an arm cost him something)

doesnt seem to imply he is stronger than when he had two. at the very least he was able to keep up.
he is currently the strongest swordsman, so either you dont classify shanks as a swordsman and that is another convo entirely, or your point is lost on me here.

 

[kurohime]

that is assuming he was not at the height of his strength 6 yrs prior to becoming a yonko . That is also assuming mihawk height of strength was 6 yrs prior. again who else did he take on after the famous duels with mihawk.
mihawk who fought him doesnt seem to think so. why would mihawk stop seeking someone stronger than him from what you have explained and then wait for someone else to surpass him when that person is right there.
shanks sees it as a sacrifice

doesnt seem to imply he is stronger than when he had two. at the very least he was able to keep up.
he is currently the strongest swordsman, so either you dont classify shanks as a swordsman and that is another convo entirely, or your point is lost on me here.

Right. Im saying we are all missing something. A piece of the puzzle that hopefull fills in eventually

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

Right. Im saying we are all missing something. A piece of the puzzle that hopefull fills in eventually

hopefully you find it
from what I see there isnt one. wb recalled his duels with mihawk and no one else . still being talked about till today. mihawk doesnt see him as someone that can surpass him anymore. and shanks might have let go of the potential he might have had to the next generation. you can keep waiting on that but for me its conclusive.
shanks isnt stronger than mihawk. one could argue mihawk is stronger but I bet they are still about even.