General & Others Next Strawhat Crew Members and the Grand Fleet
- Thread starter Guan Yu
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But if you want to take the word of japanese fans vs someone who regularly talks to the author himself, that's you.
How about the other points I brought up in that post? The DF number theory can't be the only thing you care about.
I mean.. Imagine being an author. and having fans that will watch every single numbers and drawings as a prophecy...
It's a golden mine to subvert their expectations
In a story, I'm sometimes able to see a single sentence and predict an entire storyline because of it. That's the power knowing how setups work.
Never said that. You are inventing stuff again.
No it's not. No stories are above political ideologies. And you can't make a story more political that One Piece already is.
The only dogma here lies with you who think Politic and the art of storytelling are two different things.
Never said that. You are inventing stuff again.
No it's not. No stories are above political ideologies. And you can't make a story more political that One Piece already is.
The only dogma here lies with you who think Politic and the art of storytelling are two different things.
Ok just for the one who didn't see.. I want to repost this because there are important stuff in in:
First the L.
I was wrong about the defeat of Kaido. I thought this would be done in 3 chapter but I forgot to take into account the fire and the fact that Oda loves to finish every storylines before the big ending punch.
So logically I was wrong about Carrot having a reaction in the last 3 chapters.
That's said, the hypothesis still stands. Carrot still has a high chance of getting a reaction when kaido is defeated. This reaction would STILL be a confirmation for her future joining for reasons I have already explained on twitter.
If Carrot doesn't react her chances will be reduced to 70% ish. I'll still be convinced but her chances will objectively be lowered.
That's for Carrot's reaction
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Secondly I want to come back to Yamato.
There is a reason I often say that Morj is ONE OF the most professionnal One Piece analyst. His reasonning are based on actual storytelling basis and not just fan hypothesis.
That's why, contrary to what most of you said earlier.. his last video about Yamato was a very good one. Not because it was against Yamato, but because he mentionned something I've been trying to say for years:
All the strawhats have at one time said "no" to Luffy's journey.
The thing is (and that's the reason why you guys tilted on the video) he missed two things:
1 - Brook is not an exception. Brook refused to join Luffy like everyone else.
2 - Morj failed to explain why the fact of refusing to join Luffy was important.
You see, Morj is a good analyser but he is mostly basing his reasonning on instinct rather than actual knowledge. So.. when it comes to explaining the reason behind some concept, he falls a little short. taht's said, his video are still better than 90% of the youtube fanbase.
So.. Concerning the reason behind the refusal of the strawhat to join.. it's pretty simple in fact.
Everything lie in something called the "Monomyth". The Monomyth is a narrative concept theorized by J. Campbell stating the idea that all myth are narrating one single big story. This theory introduced the concept of the "hero journey"
The "hero journey" is not a foundamental rule that applies to every stories. But you can be sure that it applies greatly to One Piece
As you can see, one of the first step of the cycle is the refusal of the call to adventure. This is what Morj was describing in his video.
There is a narrative purpose to this refusal: The goal is transform the character (formely passive) into a active protagonist. So the character must first refuse the call to take the action later by accepting it and taking his first step into his journey.
That's what happen in One Piece for every strawhats. The difference is that Oda is slighly transforming the order of the circle and makes the acceptance of the call, one of the most foundamental cahracter defining moment of the specific strawhat's story.
--
All of this to say what ? Well.. that Yamato must first REFUSE the journey before being recruted, it's a narrative NECESSITY. This refusal doesn't have to be a "no", it can take multiple face like what Usopp did on Syrup village, but it HAS to happen.
A future strawhat can perfectly join the crew first and completely refuse the call to adventure later, Usopp and Robin did that..
The thing is... the refusal (in One Piece) implies a strong development for the character. The problem is that it's VERY UNLIKELY for a character to have two strong development in the story and Yamato's strong development is currently ungoing.
And the second and REAL problem here: There is no sign of this potential storyline in Yamato's development, worst, the complete opposite happens. (this is the reason why I say often that Yamato's saying that she will join Luffy is a subversion dialogue)
For those reason, Yamato will most likely not join the crew at all and switch her desire from wanting to join Luffy to Help Wano (the ACTUAL journey she is refusing right now)
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Finally I want to talk about Carrot. I think it's time to make you all understand why Carrot is a narrative abberation and a character that MUST be looked at more closely.
To explain my reasonning I must first setup that basis:
Most of Oda's big storylines (arcs) are written under a very specific and methodic pattern. Each characters are falling under a very specific role. I counted 10 so far:
1 - The savior (Luffy)
2 - The active strawhats (the strawhat active and present during the arc)
3 - The main arc characters (This concern one or two character MAX, those are the character that are a catalysis for the big conflict in the story (hence why they are so few). Those are the character with a big life changing development during the arc, they can be future strawhats:
> (Koby / Zoro / Nami / Sanji / Vivi / Conis / Wiper / Rebecca / Robin / Momonosuke / Law / Kyros / Mocha / Broggy / Dorry / Shiraoshi / Ace / Hiyori / WhiteBeard etc.)
4 - The supporting arc characters (This category regroups the characters that are directely linked to the Main arc character's inner conflict and the ARC theme, they are therefore here to influence the main character arc and the global conflict. Their character arc are still strong but less important and impactfull that the one of the main Arc character.
> (Kaya / Nojiko / Genzo / Kohza / Gan for / Iceberg / Viola / Garp / The 9 red Scabbard AND Yamato / King Neptune etc.)
5 - The ally characters (those are all the character that are allied to the cause of the strawhats during an arc, those character don't have real development)
6 - The main arc character's antagonist. (This category regroups all the antagonist of the "main arc character", those are the character whose values enter in direct conflict with the "main arc characters", not just Luffy)
> (Gin for Sanji / Arlong for Nami / Ryuma for Brook / Spandam for Robin / Crocodile for Vivi / Akainu for Ace / Hody for Shiraoshi / Orochi for Hiyori
7 - The main bad guy (this is the one Luffy has to beat or defeat in order to save the situation)
8 - The main bad guy strong allies (those are the character with strong abilities that are helping the bad guy)
9 - The fodders (all the small character with no importance in the story)
10 - The moral pillars (those are specific character that helps the main arc character fufill their role, they can be supporting arc characters (Kohza / Hiluluk / Belmer / Shanks / Kuina etc..)
You can check. Almost every character are falling under those specific patterns. I said "almost" because there was exceptions:
- For some of the strawhats. (Nami before Arlong Park ; Robin before Water seven ; Franky ; Jinbe)
- Supporting arc characters in flashbacks
- The member of the SH grand fleet in Dressrosa
The reason for those exception is simple: For those character, Oda needed to do something unexpected.
As you can see, Yamato falls perfectely under the supporting arc character category: A strong arc but a supportive one, for the story of Momo, Luffy and the arc in general.
Now comes Carrot...
At first glance you would be tempted to put Carrot in the "supporting arc character" category. ineed, Carrot is an ally, but with a strong development, this would be therefore the most logical place for her...
BUT each supporting arc character are there to amplifie the main arc character's development and/or the theme of the arc as their development are directely linked to it.
Problem: Carrot's development has almost NOTHING to do with Sanji's development or the main theme of Whole cake (minus smal themes here and there) her development and her relationship with Pedro are thus a tangant in the story.
In fact the same can be said about her (small) development during Onigashima. Her fight and it's result has nothing to do with the current state of the story. It's like Oda is adding that out of nowhere.
Carrot is a narrative abberation.
But remember.. Like as said.. such abberation happened in the story before.
And one of the best example of that is Dressrosa. Storylines that appeared completely out of context at first (The obsession of Cavendish and bartho) appeared meaningfull only at the end of the arc.. once was created the strawhat grand fleet.
My point is simple:
Carrot is a narrative aberration. And the only thing that could explain why Carrot was developped like a strawhat without being given the actual status or the same specificities.. is because Carrot is about to have a big development in the future.. and that all her previous development was just a SETUP.
Again.. Carrot will join the crew but will only be officialized later.
I was wrong about the defeat of Kaido. I thought this would be done in 3 chapter but I forgot to take into account the fire and the fact that Oda loves to finish every storylines before the big ending punch.
So logically I was wrong about Carrot having a reaction in the last 3 chapters.
That's said, the hypothesis still stands. Carrot still has a high chance of getting a reaction when kaido is defeated. This reaction would STILL be a confirmation for her future joining for reasons I have already explained on twitter.
If Carrot doesn't react her chances will be reduced to 70% ish. I'll still be convinced but her chances will objectively be lowered.
That's for Carrot's reaction
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
Secondly I want to come back to Yamato.
There is a reason I often say that Morj is ONE OF the most professionnal One Piece analyst. His reasonning are based on actual storytelling basis and not just fan hypothesis.
That's why, contrary to what most of you said earlier.. his last video about Yamato was a very good one. Not because it was against Yamato, but because he mentionned something I've been trying to say for years:
All the strawhats have at one time said "no" to Luffy's journey.
The thing is (and that's the reason why you guys tilted on the video) he missed two things:
1 - Brook is not an exception. Brook refused to join Luffy like everyone else.
2 - Morj failed to explain why the fact of refusing to join Luffy was important.
You see, Morj is a good analyser but he is mostly basing his reasonning on instinct rather than actual knowledge. So.. when it comes to explaining the reason behind some concept, he falls a little short. taht's said, his video are still better than 90% of the youtube fanbase.
So.. Concerning the reason behind the refusal of the strawhat to join.. it's pretty simple in fact.
Everything lie in something called the "Monomyth". The Monomyth is a narrative concept theorized by J. Campbell stating the idea that all myth are narrating one single big story. This theory introduced the concept of the "hero journey"
The "hero journey" is not a foundamental rule that applies to every stories. But you can be sure that it applies greatly to One Piece
As you can see, one of the first step of the cycle is the refusal of the call to adventure. This is what Morj was describing in his video.
There is a narrative purpose to this refusal: The goal is transform the character (formely passive) into a active protagonist. So the character must first refuse the call to take the action later by accepting it and taking his first step into his journey.
That's what happen in One Piece for every strawhats. The difference is that Oda is slighly transforming the order of the circle and makes the acceptance of the call, one of the most foundamental cahracter defining moment of the specific strawhat's story.
--
All of this to say what ? Well.. that Yamato must first REFUSE the journey before being recruted, it's a narrative NECESSITY. This refusal doesn't have to be a "no", it can take multiple face like what Usopp did on Syrup village, but it HAS to happen.
A future strawhat can perfectly join the crew first and completely refuse the call to adventure later, Usopp and Robin did that..
The thing is... the refusal (in One Piece) implies a strong development for the character. The problem is that it's VERY UNLIKELY for a character to have two strong development in the story and Yamato's strong development is currently ungoing.
And the second and REAL problem here: There is no sign of this potential storyline in Yamato's development, worst, the complete opposite happens. (this is the reason why I say often that Yamato's saying that she will join Luffy is a subversion dialogue)
For those reason, Yamato will most likely not join the crew at all and switch her desire from wanting to join Luffy to Help Wano (the ACTUAL journey she is refusing right now)
-----------------------------
-----------------------------
Finally I want to talk about Carrot. I think it's time to make you all understand why Carrot is a narrative abberation and a character that MUST be looked at more closely.
To explain my reasonning I must first setup that basis:
Most of Oda's big storylines (arcs) are written under a very specific and methodic pattern. Each characters are falling under a very specific role. I counted 10 so far:
1 - The savior (Luffy)
2 - The active strawhats (the strawhat active and present during the arc)
3 - The main arc characters (This concern one or two character MAX, those are the character that are a catalysis for the big conflict in the story (hence why they are so few). Those are the character with a big life changing development during the arc, they can be future strawhats:
> (Koby / Zoro / Nami / Sanji / Vivi / Conis / Wiper / Rebecca / Robin / Momonosuke / Law / Kyros / Mocha / Broggy / Dorry / Shiraoshi / Ace / Hiyori / WhiteBeard etc.)
4 - The supporting arc characters (This category regroups the characters that are directely linked to the Main arc character's inner conflict and the ARC theme, they are therefore here to influence the main character arc and the global conflict. Their character arc are still strong but less important and impactfull that the one of the main Arc character.
> (Kaya / Nojiko / Genzo / Kohza / Gan for / Iceberg / Viola / Garp / The 9 red Scabbard AND Yamato / King Neptune etc.)
5 - The ally characters (those are all the character that are allied to the cause of the strawhats during an arc, those character don't have real development)
6 - The main arc character's antagonist. (This category regroups all the antagonist of the "main arc character", those are the character whose values enter in direct conflict with the "main arc characters", not just Luffy)
> (Gin for Sanji / Arlong for Nami / Ryuma for Brook / Spandam for Robin / Crocodile for Vivi / Akainu for Ace / Hody for Shiraoshi / Orochi for Hiyori
7 - The main bad guy (this is the one Luffy has to beat or defeat in order to save the situation)
8 - The main bad guy strong allies (those are the character with strong abilities that are helping the bad guy)
9 - The fodders (all the small character with no importance in the story)
10 - The moral pillars (those are specific character that helps the main arc character fufill their role, they can be supporting arc characters (Kohza / Hiluluk / Belmer / Shanks / Kuina etc..)
You can check. Almost every character are falling under those specific patterns. I said "almost" because there was exceptions:
- For some of the strawhats. (Nami before Arlong Park ; Robin before Water seven ; Franky ; Jinbe)
- Supporting arc characters in flashbacks
- The member of the SH grand fleet in Dressrosa
The reason for those exception is simple: For those character, Oda needed to do something unexpected.
As you can see, Yamato falls perfectely under the supporting arc character category: A strong arc but a supportive one, for the story of Momo, Luffy and the arc in general.
Now comes Carrot...
At first glance you would be tempted to put Carrot in the "supporting arc character" category. ineed, Carrot is an ally, but with a strong development, this would be therefore the most logical place for her...
BUT each supporting arc character are there to amplifie the main arc character's development and/or the theme of the arc as their development are directely linked to it.
Problem: Carrot's development has almost NOTHING to do with Sanji's development or the main theme of Whole cake (minus smal themes here and there) her development and her relationship with Pedro are thus a tangant in the story.
In fact the same can be said about her (small) development during Onigashima. Her fight and it's result has nothing to do with the current state of the story. It's like Oda is adding that out of nowhere.
Carrot is a narrative abberation.
But remember.. Like as said.. such abberation happened in the story before.
And one of the best example of that is Dressrosa. Storylines that appeared completely out of context at first (The obsession of Cavendish and bartho) appeared meaningfull only at the end of the arc.. once was created the strawhat grand fleet.
My point is simple:
Carrot is a narrative aberration. And the only thing that could explain why Carrot was developped like a strawhat without being given the actual status or the same specificities.. is because Carrot is about to have a big development in the future.. and that all her previous development was just a SETUP.
Again.. Carrot will join the crew but will only be officialized later.
But she hasn't been in the chapter with anything, just a single panel of her doing nothing than being a background character as usual
Like it shows in the story nothing like that will ever happen for carrot no hints or foreshadowing those are just your theory or prediction of what you want Oda to do
Post automatically merged:
Like it shows in the story nothing like that will ever happen for carrot no hints or foreshadowing those are just your theory or prediction of what you want Oda to do
I'm talking about the importance of the reaction in the storytelling context. Not in term of importance for the character.
I mean.. That was implied.. How did you fail understanding that ?
A panel is like a sentence to me. It's the author speaking through drawings. I don't always need dialogue to predict something.
In most random stories yes it's quite easy.. For example (a radical one) you can guess the last 5 minutes of almost every 45 minutes CW show ever within the first minute of an episode. For good stories like One Piece it's a little bit more difficult but still possible with a little bit of work.
I mean.. That was implied.. How did you fail understanding that ?
A panel is like a sentence to me. It's the author speaking through drawings. I don't always need dialogue to predict something.
In most random stories yes it's quite easy.. For example (a radical one) you can guess the last 5 minutes of almost every 45 minutes CW show ever within the first minute of an episode. For good stories like One Piece it's a little bit more difficult but still possible with a little bit of work.
I've explained it already:
If Carrot gets a reaction panel + little flashback of Pedro reminding her of his speech about Luffy. This will be a way for Oda to link Carrot's future and Luffy together. Basically saying to the audience "Carrot is finally understanding what Pedro told her, being the importance of getting Luffy to the end of his journey and helping him"
Hence why that panel would be a confirmation for Carrot joining as that little link is the one big thing missing to make Carrot a future strawhat.
If Carrot gets a reaction panel + little flashback of Pedro reminding her of his speech about Luffy. This will be a way for Oda to link Carrot's future and Luffy together. Basically saying to the audience "Carrot is finally understanding what Pedro told her, being the importance of getting Luffy to the end of his journey and helping him"
Hence why that panel would be a confirmation for Carrot joining as that little link is the one big thing missing to make Carrot a future strawhat.
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