Speculations Who will defeat Big Mom?
- Thread starter Bogard
- Start date
- Tags big mom captain kid luffy rocks worst generation
Why are you downplaying this feat. There's nothing "basic" about penetrative haki. It is the highest known level of CoA. It is so rare that literally the only other person who is confirmed to have this ability is Rayleigh.
That is the type of power it is. Luffy has attained a similar level of CoA as the right hand man of Gol D Roger. He has mastered CoA to such a degree that he can essentially throw punches that have the same effect as gamma knife, a move that almost killed doflamingo and would kill any YC who can't stitch their organs instantly. Do you not understand how hax this ability is?
Not only that but during his Udon training, Luffy showed FS feats on a level similar to that of Katakuri.
There's nothing "basic" about what Luffy has done. He has top tier haki, and there's no question about it. In fact, as far as feats go, Luffy has shown better haki feats than both Big Mom and Kaido. At the moment, he's easily one of the top 10(possibly even top 5) haki users in the series.
And when you throw his newly shown mastery over G4 on top of this, there's no reason why Luffy shouldn't already be a top tier. As far as feats go, tankman has shown durability on a similar level to Big Mom and Kaido(tankman is able to take zero damage from attacks by YC levels) and that was before Luffy gained ACoA.
That is the type of power it is. Luffy has attained a similar level of CoA as the right hand man of Gol D Roger. He has mastered CoA to such a degree that he can essentially throw punches that have the same effect as gamma knife, a move that almost killed doflamingo and would kill any YC who can't stitch their organs instantly. Do you not understand how hax this ability is?
Not only that but during his Udon training, Luffy showed FS feats on a level similar to that of Katakuri.
There's nothing "basic" about what Luffy has done. He has top tier haki, and there's no question about it. In fact, as far as feats go, Luffy has shown better haki feats than both Big Mom and Kaido. At the moment, he's easily one of the top 10(possibly even top 5) haki users in the series.
And when you throw his newly shown mastery over G4 on top of this, there's no reason why Luffy shouldn't already be a top tier. As far as feats go, tankman has shown durability on a similar level to Big Mom and Kaido(tankman is able to take zero damage from attacks by YC levels) and that was before Luffy gained ACoA.
The thing is we don’t know yet what BM role in this arc is. We also don’t know who’s going to be involved in this arc.
For all we know the Marines or the BB pirates could be making their way to Wano as we speak. For all we know Oda may have placed BM in this arc in order for BM to betray Kaido hence injuring him and leaving him in a weakened state for the SN to take him out. That’s plenty of possibilities for this arc but 1 that’s not likely is Luffy beating Kaido 1 v 1.
Fujitora and Kaido I’d say that’s an extreme dif fight in favour of Kaido.
For all we know the Marines or the BB pirates could be making their way to Wano as we speak. For all we know Oda may have placed BM in this arc in order for BM to betray Kaido hence injuring him and leaving him in a weakened state for the SN to take him out. That’s plenty of possibilities for this arc but 1 that’s not likely is Luffy beating Kaido 1 v 1.
Fujitora and Kaido I’d say that’s an extreme dif fight in favour of Kaido.
Im not saying penetrative haki is basic in itself im saying luffy learned the basics of it as he only had 3 days. Im sure other top tiers have that same haki mastered to a higher degree and yet Kaido and big mom are still around. If it was that easy to take down the yonko they wouldnt be around for decades. Heck they fucking fought roger and whitebeard who had that same haki to a way higher degree. So no, im not downplaying, you are the one who is underestimating the yonko heavily if you think thats all it takes for someone to mostly fight 1vs1 against a yonko with some help and win.
And dont undersell what top tier means, luffy right now is on the cusp of it. If it was that easy, there would be a lot more top tiers runing around mate. And for me fuji would be a high/very high diff fight for kaido/shanks/Bm. The moment luffy can give kaido a high diff fight ill call him a top tier, he is not that at the moment imo. Dont try to pump him up for no reason.
A top tier wouldnt get fodderized like luffy did, i just dont see luffy closing that MASSIVE gap in a few days. Sorry. But, he'll get there, i believe he will grow during the battle ever closer to top tier status and after wano, he would be around there. After that he could fight a top tier 1vs1 and cement his position before fighting Blackbeard.
Thats what normal progression looks like, not go from=> Fodder diffed to => extreme diffing someone that OVERWHELMED you in every stat possible in under 2 weeks. Again, the alliance is there for a reason. Oda also had moriah and blackbeard happen for a reason, the marines questioning wano and its ties with so many big players for a reason, Shanks( this one is a stretch) wanting to talk about a certain pirate( Rocks or blackbeard, either way ties to wano) for a reason, warlords( mostly hancock and weevil have a reason to end up in wano after the disbanding), and then the whitebeard remnants are coming in too by the way. Oda wouldnt do all of that if he believed luffy can solo a yonko at this very moment. He said himself that this would make marineford look cute, and the hints are there. Mark my words.
Then there is the prophecy states that Figures(plural) can be the ones who can take down kaido. Further reinforcing the fact that 1vs1s are not happening, this is war and a gigantic one at that. Luffy can have his 1vs1 after wano.
And dont undersell what top tier means, luffy right now is on the cusp of it. If it was that easy, there would be a lot more top tiers runing around mate. And for me fuji would be a high/very high diff fight for kaido/shanks/Bm. The moment luffy can give kaido a high diff fight ill call him a top tier, he is not that at the moment imo. Dont try to pump him up for no reason.
A top tier wouldnt get fodderized like luffy did, i just dont see luffy closing that MASSIVE gap in a few days. Sorry. But, he'll get there, i believe he will grow during the battle ever closer to top tier status and after wano, he would be around there. After that he could fight a top tier 1vs1 and cement his position before fighting Blackbeard.
Thats what normal progression looks like, not go from=> Fodder diffed to => extreme diffing someone that OVERWHELMED you in every stat possible in under 2 weeks. Again, the alliance is there for a reason. Oda also had moriah and blackbeard happen for a reason, the marines questioning wano and its ties with so many big players for a reason, Shanks( this one is a stretch) wanting to talk about a certain pirate( Rocks or blackbeard, either way ties to wano) for a reason, warlords( mostly hancock and weevil have a reason to end up in wano after the disbanding), and then the whitebeard remnants are coming in too by the way. Oda wouldnt do all of that if he believed luffy can solo a yonko at this very moment. He said himself that this would make marineford look cute, and the hints are there. Mark my words.
Then there is the prophecy states that Figures(plural) can be the ones who can take down kaido. Further reinforcing the fact that 1vs1s are not happening, this is war and a gigantic one at that. Luffy can have his 1vs1 after wano.
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Thing is he got a whole lotta help in all those fights. Even in the Katakuri fight yeah sure he only needed brulee so that he could run away and rest but let’s be honest what happens if brulee ain’t there ? He gets killed by Katakuri.
Kaido is also an entirely different beast. All those guys mentioned are on the high tier category but Kaido he is on the top tier category and he’s at the very top or at least close to the top of that category. For me Luffy winning after 2 weeks of training with Hyo isn’t enough for him to beat Kaido 1v1.
I think Luffy and the SN will fight Kaido all together weaken him to 50% of his full strength then Luffy’s will get a P.U and beat a heavily injured Kaido.
Luffy after this arc should be on Low top tier (or on par with the likes of Rayleigh and Garp).
Kaido is also an entirely different beast. All those guys mentioned are on the high tier category but Kaido he is on the top tier category and he’s at the very top or at least close to the top of that category. For me Luffy winning after 2 weeks of training with Hyo isn’t enough for him to beat Kaido 1v1.
I think Luffy and the SN will fight Kaido all together weaken him to 50% of his full strength then Luffy’s will get a P.U and beat a heavily injured Kaido.
Luffy after this arc should be on Low top tier (or on par with the likes of Rayleigh and Garp).
Help to the SH's? Ain't no helping here bruh, we (marines) coming for that BM ass!! Coming for that SH right after. 
You already know my guy Sakazuki about to send some marines there. We already got homeboy Drake in this beeetch. Smoker, Tashigi, Sentomaru been off-panel the whole reverie, you knowww what that meanss
Smokaaah coming for the Rocks!
You already know my guy Sakazuki about to send some marines there. We already got homeboy Drake in this beeetch. Smoker, Tashigi, Sentomaru been off-panel the whole reverie, you knowww what that meanss
Smokaaah coming for the Rocks!
Help to the SH's? Ain't no helping here bruh, we (marines) coming for that BM ass!! Coming for that SH right after.
You already know my guy Sakazuki about to send some marines there. We already got homeboy Drake in this beeetch. Smoker, Tashigi, Sentomaru been off-panel the whole reverie, you knowww what that meanss
Smokaaah coming for the Rocks!
You already know my guy Sakazuki about to send some marines there. We already got homeboy Drake in this beeetch. Smoker, Tashigi, Sentomaru been off-panel the whole reverie, you knowww what that meanss
Smokaaah coming for the Rocks!
Even though Fujitora fits the whole Samurai theme, I don't think he's coming. Neither is Kizaru or Green Bull. Since in my theory Fujitora should be the one leading the fleet against Hancock. One of them against Weevil & the other against Dracule.
I would bet on the thing they were talking about in the Rocks chapter to come to Wano, rather than the admirals:
They'll test out whatever the SSG created and see it's effectiveness, and assuming it proves to be a success.. this will build up the Marines solid for the Final War.
And since it'd be w.e the thing/force that's replacing the warlords would be coming to Wano, I'd expect ole boy Sentomaru to be the one leading it, with Smoker & Tashigi accompanying him.
I would bet on the thing they were talking about in the Rocks chapter to come to Wano, rather than the admirals:
They'll test out whatever the SSG created and see it's effectiveness, and assuming it proves to be a success.. this will build up the Marines solid for the Final War.
And since it'd be w.e the thing/force that's replacing the warlords would be coming to Wano, I'd expect ole boy Sentomaru to be the one leading it, with Smoker & Tashigi accompanying him.
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Even though Fujitora fits the whole Samurai theme, I don't think he's coming. Neither is Kizaru or Green Bull. Since in my theory Fujitora should be the one leading the fleet against Hancock. One of them against Weevil & the other against Dracule.
I would bet on the thing they were talking about in the Rocks chapter to come to Wano, rather than the admirals:
They'll test out whatever the SSG created and see it's effectiveness, and assuming it proves to be a success.. this will build up the Marines solid for the Final War.
And since it'd be w.e the thing/force that's replacing the warlords would be coming to Wano, I'd expect ole boy Sentomaru to be the one leading it, with Smoker & Tashigi accompanying him.
I would bet on the thing they were talking about in the Rocks chapter to come to Wano, rather than the admirals:
They'll test out whatever the SSG created and see it's effectiveness, and assuming it proves to be a success.. this will build up the Marines solid for the Final War.
And since it'd be w.e the thing/force that's replacing the warlords would be coming to Wano, I'd expect ole boy Sentomaru to be the one leading it, with Smoker & Tashigi accompanying him.
And how many other characters have both Future sight and penetration CoA?
He was trying to learn it for nearly 2 weeks. There is no "basic" penetration haki. That implies that there is advanced penetration haki, but we've never seen such a thing. The only other example we've seen of penetration haki is what Rayleigh did, but we know that Luffy can do that.
why do you think he'll cement his position after wano when
Blackbeard and Moria could honestly show up at the end of the war, after the Rocks alliance is defeated, to kill Kaido and steal his DF
The warlords straight up won't come to wano. Maybe weevil will, but if he does he will be an antagonist(due to Bakkin's connection with Rox), not an ally. Oda said that Hancock will be in trouble, which implies that the marines will most likely capture her. Anyways she will be too busy fighting the marines invading Amazon lily to do anything in wano.
As for Marco and the rest of the alliance, they could just be meant for big mom. That's the thing I'm getting at, if you assume that Luffy can't deal with Kaido by himself(for the most part), then you also have to assume that Big Mom is defeated by plot induced stupidity, which would ruin all the build up for Rocks 2.0.
If we were facing just Kaido and Kaido alone, then I would agree with you. Oda wouldn't put together such a force, if Kaido was meant to be 1v1ed, but when you put big mom into the mix, it makes sense. The only way big mom can be satisfyingly defeated is if Kaido is mostly dealt by with Luffy and the rest of the alliance deals with big mom.
He was trying to learn it for nearly 2 weeks. There is no "basic" penetration haki. That implies that there is advanced penetration haki, but we've never seen such a thing. The only other example we've seen of penetration haki is what Rayleigh did, but we know that Luffy can do that.
why do you think he'll cement his position after wano when
- he was already called an emperor before wano
- he already has a 1.5 bil bounty
- his strongest subordinates(Zoro, Sanji, Jinbe) are at the bare minimum low YC level
Blackbeard and Moria could honestly show up at the end of the war, after the Rocks alliance is defeated, to kill Kaido and steal his DF
The warlords straight up won't come to wano. Maybe weevil will, but if he does he will be an antagonist(due to Bakkin's connection with Rox), not an ally. Oda said that Hancock will be in trouble, which implies that the marines will most likely capture her. Anyways she will be too busy fighting the marines invading Amazon lily to do anything in wano.
As for Marco and the rest of the alliance, they could just be meant for big mom. That's the thing I'm getting at, if you assume that Luffy can't deal with Kaido by himself(for the most part), then you also have to assume that Big Mom is defeated by plot induced stupidity, which would ruin all the build up for Rocks 2.0.
If we were facing just Kaido and Kaido alone, then I would agree with you. Oda wouldn't put together such a force, if Kaido was meant to be 1v1ed, but when you put big mom into the mix, it makes sense. The only way big mom can be satisfyingly defeated is if Kaido is mostly dealt by with Luffy and the rest of the alliance deals with big mom.
Zoro fans are gonna say Luffy, you know why. :smithnie:
OT- i also believes like Bogard mentioned, Luffy +Kidd+ Law willl beat Kaidou(Luffy mostly).
And BM could honestly be occupied by Admiral/BB or Kid+Law combo or she could be redeemed somehow, the young naive BM isn't so bad and there's reason Oda build on it so much. She already formed a bond with Chopper n O Tama, that could play a factor.
I also think Sanji will feel responsible for Dragging BM after em, so he might also play some role in this, or it simply can awaken him in his fight..
I doubt anyone gonnna Defeat her in proper outright way, the alliance isn't strong enough to defeat Two Yonkou by fair means.
OT- i also believes like Bogard mentioned, Luffy +Kidd+ Law willl beat Kaidou(Luffy mostly).
And BM could honestly be occupied by Admiral/BB or Kid+Law combo or she could be redeemed somehow, the young naive BM isn't so bad and there's reason Oda build on it so much. She already formed a bond with Chopper n O Tama, that could play a factor.
I also think Sanji will feel responsible for Dragging BM after em, so he might also play some role in this, or it simply can awaken him in his fight..
I doubt anyone gonnna Defeat her in proper outright way, the alliance isn't strong enough to defeat Two Yonkou by fair means.
