General & Others The Problem With Post Timeskip
- Thread starter Uncle Van
- Start date
What I dislike most post time skip is the sheer emotional dissonance that Oda inadvertently creates by trying to save certain conversations for later. Maybe he’s trying to create a better reveal, but simply glossing over the situation creates some baffling and emotionally constipated scenarios in the manga.
For example:
None of the Straw Hats, not one, mentioned Ace’s death, despite this being the catalyst for their 2 year separation in the first place.
Robin knew Sabo was alive this entire time, no mention is made of this fact whatsoever and there was not even a hint that Robin might know more about Luffy’s family situation than she lets on. Granted this is difficult to criticise specifically given that post skip Robin looks like she’s had a permanent lobotomy.
Zoro appears missing an eye and NO ONE CARED.
Sanji’s brothers seem oblivious and uncaring towards the fact that they have a mother. Sora is brought up for absolutely no reason and plays no part in Sanji’s interactions with his father or brothers. Cosette suffers a similar fate.
None of the Straw Hats express even an iota of concern that Zoro went missing around the time that Luffy was captured and imprisoned.
This lack of any and all emotional realism is just so jarring and bizarre that it’s difficult to be invested in any of the post time skip stories at all. Why should I care about what happens to the Straw Hats? They don’t even seem to care what happens to each other.
For example:
None of the Straw Hats, not one, mentioned Ace’s death, despite this being the catalyst for their 2 year separation in the first place.
Robin knew Sabo was alive this entire time, no mention is made of this fact whatsoever and there was not even a hint that Robin might know more about Luffy’s family situation than she lets on. Granted this is difficult to criticise specifically given that post skip Robin looks like she’s had a permanent lobotomy.
Zoro appears missing an eye and NO ONE CARED.
Sanji’s brothers seem oblivious and uncaring towards the fact that they have a mother. Sora is brought up for absolutely no reason and plays no part in Sanji’s interactions with his father or brothers. Cosette suffers a similar fate.
None of the Straw Hats express even an iota of concern that Zoro went missing around the time that Luffy was captured and imprisoned.
This lack of any and all emotional realism is just so jarring and bizarre that it’s difficult to be invested in any of the post time skip stories at all. Why should I care about what happens to the Straw Hats? They don’t even seem to care what happens to each other.
Last edited:
This was a pretty terrible attempt at an analysis.
Most of the things you complain about are nothing but pure personal preference as opposed to any actual issues with the story.
The only major difference between preskip and postskip is that things have gotten far more complex after the timeskip. Whether that be the story structure or the various side characters getting their own stories.
Things are bigger now.
Whats more your points about the fights ironically completely miss the point of those fights. You complain about "lack of substance" yet you don't take into account that the substance of each fight you bring up is completely different. Yes, Chopper's fight with Gedatsu provided Chopper with some development. But the substance provided by Franky vs Senior Pink was adding to the thematic commentary on love, compassion, and manliness. It's substance was in adding to the meaning of the arc.
"false hype" is nothing more than a made up fan-term thats actually a result of fans disappointing themselves due to their own unnecessary hype.
Comparing Ace vs Blackbeard and The Admirals vs Revolutionaries completely fails because it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Ace vs Blackbeard served a very specific purpose in the story. Setting up Marineford while also laying the grounds for the themes of The Sun vs The Darkness. Whereas we have no idea what the purpose of the Admirals clashing with the Revos even is other than the Revs trying to get their comrade back. Whatever it is it certainly isn't setting up a second Marineford. So again, horrible comparison.
Your entire post is filled with bad arguments and awful comparisons that don't really work.
The real reason fans claim that preskip was better is due to nostalgia goggles and the difference between binge reading and reading weekly.
Most of the things you complain about are nothing but pure personal preference as opposed to any actual issues with the story.
The only major difference between preskip and postskip is that things have gotten far more complex after the timeskip. Whether that be the story structure or the various side characters getting their own stories.
Things are bigger now.
Whats more your points about the fights ironically completely miss the point of those fights. You complain about "lack of substance" yet you don't take into account that the substance of each fight you bring up is completely different. Yes, Chopper's fight with Gedatsu provided Chopper with some development. But the substance provided by Franky vs Senior Pink was adding to the thematic commentary on love, compassion, and manliness. It's substance was in adding to the meaning of the arc.
"false hype" is nothing more than a made up fan-term thats actually a result of fans disappointing themselves due to their own unnecessary hype.
Comparing Ace vs Blackbeard and The Admirals vs Revolutionaries completely fails because it's not a 1 to 1 comparison. Ace vs Blackbeard served a very specific purpose in the story. Setting up Marineford while also laying the grounds for the themes of The Sun vs The Darkness. Whereas we have no idea what the purpose of the Admirals clashing with the Revos even is other than the Revs trying to get their comrade back. Whatever it is it certainly isn't setting up a second Marineford. So again, horrible comparison.
Your entire post is filled with bad arguments and awful comparisons that don't really work.
The real reason fans claim that preskip was better is due to nostalgia goggles and the difference between binge reading and reading weekly.
Guys....the reason why he skipped all of the top tier fights in DR, WCI and the Reverie is because they are TOP TIER. Oda doesnt want to blow his load wasting panels and time with these characters when he can save the moments for later when they ARE actually fighting. Marineford is literally this x100, yet nobody compained then. They are being saved for later, just wait.
The point of Oda showing all the Colosseum fights was not to show people owning fodder, it was setup and introductions to the strawhat fleet....
And the Paulie vs. Kyros thing seems super subjective. I personally dont mind the investment tbh. Kinemon wont be joining either.
The rest i sort of get, but the above i do not.
The point of Oda showing all the Colosseum fights was not to show people owning fodder, it was setup and introductions to the strawhat fleet....
And the Paulie vs. Kyros thing seems super subjective. I personally dont mind the investment tbh. Kinemon wont be joining either.
The rest i sort of get, but the above i do not.
Last edited:
Dont see how its just personal preferences I'm talking about when I like postskip way more than I like preskip. Is it not your personal preference that there's nothing wrong?
I directly said postskip has more of everything and that includes scale.....
I said a lot of postskip fights has LESS substance that preskip. I'm fully aware of the narrative behind the fights in OP. Oda's fights are nothing but a way to tell a story and almost every fight has thematic value. Hell...one of my favorite fights in Luffy vs Chinjao because of thematic value alone.
Franky vs Senor Pink was 20+ chapters long with no pphysical mental development for a main character. The fight is an example of how things get dragged a lot longer than necessary.
I knew saying that would get responses like this.....
False hype would be fans complaining about Zoro vs King or Sanji vs Queen not happening even though those battles that has not the slightest bit of build up. That is an expectation fabricated by the reader.
It wasnt something built up upon for many chapters, purposely trying to grasp the intrigue of the audience with dramatic scenes, only to have that character be a minor player. Raizo and Kawamatsu got lots of build up that wasn't necessary if their roles was gonna be so minor. Lots of build up for minor things. So if Oda places a LOT of attention on a certain character or event, the reader should have little to no expecations?
It's actually a good example of Oda's incressed reliance on off paneling and ambiguity even when its seemingly unnecessary. Once again, we know nothing of Green Bull's appearance or ability and you said "we dont know the purpose of the clash" and to that I say 'exactly.' The very fact you can tell me things about Ace vs BB and nothing about the Revs is telling enough. Its just one of many examples.
When I say Oda is setting a 2nd marienford?
That's quite the generalization.
I directly said postskip has more of everything and that includes scale.....
I said a lot of postskip fights has LESS substance that preskip. I'm fully aware of the narrative behind the fights in OP. Oda's fights are nothing but a way to tell a story and almost every fight has thematic value. Hell...one of my favorite fights in Luffy vs Chinjao because of thematic value alone.
Franky vs Senor Pink was 20+ chapters long with no pphysical mental development for a main character. The fight is an example of how things get dragged a lot longer than necessary.
I knew saying that would get responses like this.....
False hype would be fans complaining about Zoro vs King or Sanji vs Queen not happening even though those battles that has not the slightest bit of build up. That is an expectation fabricated by the reader.
It wasnt something built up upon for many chapters, purposely trying to grasp the intrigue of the audience with dramatic scenes, only to have that character be a minor player. Raizo and Kawamatsu got lots of build up that wasn't necessary if their roles was gonna be so minor. Lots of build up for minor things. So if Oda places a LOT of attention on a certain character or event, the reader should have little to no expecations?
It's actually a good example of Oda's incressed reliance on off paneling and ambiguity even when its seemingly unnecessary. Once again, we know nothing of Green Bull's appearance or ability and you said "we dont know the purpose of the clash" and to that I say 'exactly.' The very fact you can tell me things about Ace vs BB and nothing about the Revs is telling enough. Its just one of many examples.
When I say Oda is setting a 2nd marienford?
That's quite the generalization.
So u're upset strawhats didn't ask Luffy or Zoro where they got their scars from? That's nitpicky asf & irrelevant. Offpaneling such discussions makes perfect sense.
Strawhats not bringing up Ace is perfect, cause Luffy has already overcomed his grief.
Did Robin even know Sabo was Luffy's brother?
Strawhats not bringing up Ace is perfect, cause Luffy has already overcomed his grief.
Did Robin even know Sabo was Luffy's brother?
Last edited:
I must stress that you can tell a lot of the "higher" tier fights were skipped purely to avoid showing off those powers as of yet. The reason why we got a ton of Whitebeard at the time? He died in the same arc. Ace? Same fate.
Sabo? Jesus? Fujitora? Ryokugyu? Weevil? Payback War? etc etc etc. They will have their time.
Imagine this scenario: Oda draws a 10 chapter Payback War arc. He shows off 90% of what the Blackbeard Pirates can do, and completely shows off Marco, Joz and Vista's max potential. Now imagine Nekomamushi recruits most of the old WB pirates for Wano's war. Would you be as invested in those panels showing off their powers?
I for one am waiting for the "skipped" fights to pay off, purely because its clear that if it does not drive Luffy's personal story, Oda is saving their exposition for later in the story.
This is very true. Granted, the sheer number of side characters is also what elongates the arcs even more. Summit War had the benefit of only focusing on Luffy throughout most of it and only introduced a few important characters per arc. Dressrosa focuses on all 5 strawhats there at different focal points, as well as like 15 other named characters that would eventually become the SHF. Oda also spent a lot of time on characterizing Law/Doflamingo's relationship and the 13+ members of Doflamingo's crew.
I'm not saying this is a good thing in regards to pacing, but you have to give the man credit for even coming up and combining all of this together. I definitely would have liked arcs to be shorter, especially WCI (which nearly showed all 80 of her damn children lmao). WCI is even pooling into Wano it seems, especially with BM and her crew being present.
Edit: And yes, this is essentially Oda's main problem: He makes too many characters and too many plotlines.
I can only hope that whatever comes post-Wano, if its not final war setup, is actually smaller/more condensed.
Sabo? Jesus? Fujitora? Ryokugyu? Weevil? Payback War? etc etc etc. They will have their time.
Imagine this scenario: Oda draws a 10 chapter Payback War arc. He shows off 90% of what the Blackbeard Pirates can do, and completely shows off Marco, Joz and Vista's max potential. Now imagine Nekomamushi recruits most of the old WB pirates for Wano's war. Would you be as invested in those panels showing off their powers?
I for one am waiting for the "skipped" fights to pay off, purely because its clear that if it does not drive Luffy's personal story, Oda is saving their exposition for later in the story.
This is very true. Granted, the sheer number of side characters is also what elongates the arcs even more. Summit War had the benefit of only focusing on Luffy throughout most of it and only introduced a few important characters per arc. Dressrosa focuses on all 5 strawhats there at different focal points, as well as like 15 other named characters that would eventually become the SHF. Oda also spent a lot of time on characterizing Law/Doflamingo's relationship and the 13+ members of Doflamingo's crew.
I'm not saying this is a good thing in regards to pacing, but you have to give the man credit for even coming up and combining all of this together. I definitely would have liked arcs to be shorter, especially WCI (which nearly showed all 80 of her damn children lmao). WCI is even pooling into Wano it seems, especially with BM and her crew being present.
Edit: And yes, this is essentially Oda's main problem: He makes too many characters and too many plotlines.
I can only hope that whatever comes post-Wano, if its not final war setup, is actually smaller/more condensed.
Last edited:
Pretty sure she knew or was told. Sabo asked to keep it a secret or something IIRC. This whole business just screams betrayal to me imo.
There's certain things I just don't like that and things being glossed over, The emotional journey is gone. Storytelling has gone to shit, characters not behaving how they should act (at least imo).
What of things I don't nessessarily like is the Strawhats were traveling together for maybe a few months to half a year at best, But come the 2 year time-skip, the places they were at and the people they met You'd think would have more of a connection with then the SH's 5 Months vs 2 years. Everything just feels completely off.
There's certain things I just don't like that and things being glossed over, The emotional journey is gone. Storytelling has gone to shit, characters not behaving how they should act (at least imo).
What of things I don't nessessarily like is the Strawhats were traveling together for maybe a few months to half a year at best, But come the 2 year time-skip, the places they were at and the people they met You'd think would have more of a connection with then the SH's 5 Months vs 2 years. Everything just feels completely off.
No. Because this is about objective differences between both.
The stuff you listed like Sanji vs Page One is just a wishlist of stuff you wanted to see. Not because those things were relevant to the narrative somehow.
Right except they don't have "less" substance. The substance is just different. Whether a fight has character development or not doesn't make it superior or inferior to a fight without it.
The fight was not 20 chapters. It stopped and was restarted later. There is some development with Franky during that fight. This was Franky's first fight where he had actual respect for his opponent. Showing compassion and even relating to his manliness. Franky made a connection to Pink. This encounter was apparently so impactful to him that he's started using Senior Pink's attacks later on in Wano. Paying a strange homage to him. I'd have to re-read to break it down but it's not as though the fight is lacking in that regard either.
Of course they got lots of build up they're members of the 9 scabbards which the arc is heavily focusing on. Their roles haven't been minor at all. Not to mention their roles are far from complete to begin with.
Again, you make the mistake in assuming that this clash HAS to be exactly like Ace vs Blackbeard. It doesn't. It's being done differently because it serves a different purpose entirely. For all you know we could get a flashback to the fight later. Making all the complaints about it completely pointless.
The stuff you listed like Sanji vs Page One is just a wishlist of stuff you wanted to see. Not because those things were relevant to the narrative somehow.
Right except they don't have "less" substance. The substance is just different. Whether a fight has character development or not doesn't make it superior or inferior to a fight without it.
The fight was not 20 chapters. It stopped and was restarted later. There is some development with Franky during that fight. This was Franky's first fight where he had actual respect for his opponent. Showing compassion and even relating to his manliness. Franky made a connection to Pink. This encounter was apparently so impactful to him that he's started using Senior Pink's attacks later on in Wano. Paying a strange homage to him. I'd have to re-read to break it down but it's not as though the fight is lacking in that regard either.
Of course they got lots of build up they're members of the 9 scabbards which the arc is heavily focusing on. Their roles haven't been minor at all. Not to mention their roles are far from complete to begin with.
Again, you make the mistake in assuming that this clash HAS to be exactly like Ace vs Blackbeard. It doesn't. It's being done differently because it serves a different purpose entirely. For all you know we could get a flashback to the fight later. Making all the complaints about it completely pointless.
Last edited:
I said nothing about what I wanted to see nor is it a wishlist. Stop labeling.
I dont know why you singled out Sanii n' P1 and ignored but point, but it's a clear example of Oda's habit to off panel and rely and ambiguity when it comes to more exciting events while giving the spotlight to lesser events like fodder control.
The fight, or more specifically Franky trying to destroy the factory, was spread across 20+ chapters. The fight itself showed no new development for Franky but instead, re-illiterated what we already knew about him.
This implies all the scabbards got the same intro and did the exact same things which clearly isnt true.
Raizo and Kawamatsu got more build up and anticipation than Kanjuro, Ashura Doji, Okiku, Denjiro, Inu and Neko.....Raizo's contributions was nowhere near as high as some of them.... Kawamatsu, who's mission was the same as Ashura Doji, got way more focus leading up to his introduction.
Oda himself knows about his false build up, given how he made the male SHs show massive disappointment at Raizo's reveal, compensating with comedy.
Why you keep doing this? Where did I say or even imply that the Revo scenes had to be the same as Ace? I honestly dont know how you could draw such a conclusion and not address the point again....
Once again, the point is how Oda relies more on off labeling and ambiguity to keep the readers' attention. Revealing how things went down 100 chapters later only adds to that.[/SPOILER][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
I dont know why you singled out Sanii n' P1 and ignored but point, but it's a clear example of Oda's habit to off panel and rely and ambiguity when it comes to more exciting events while giving the spotlight to lesser events like fodder control.
The fight, or more specifically Franky trying to destroy the factory, was spread across 20+ chapters. The fight itself showed no new development for Franky but instead, re-illiterated what we already knew about him.
This implies all the scabbards got the same intro and did the exact same things which clearly isnt true.
Raizo and Kawamatsu got more build up and anticipation than Kanjuro, Ashura Doji, Okiku, Denjiro, Inu and Neko.....Raizo's contributions was nowhere near as high as some of them.... Kawamatsu, who's mission was the same as Ashura Doji, got way more focus leading up to his introduction.
Oda himself knows about his false build up, given how he made the male SHs show massive disappointment at Raizo's reveal, compensating with comedy.
Why you keep doing this? Where did I say or even imply that the Revo scenes had to be the same as Ace? I honestly dont know how you could draw such a conclusion and not address the point again....
Once again, the point is how Oda relies more on off labeling and ambiguity to keep the readers' attention. Revealing how things went down 100 chapters later only adds to that.[/SPOILER][/QUOTE][/QUOTE]
The point is how much extra attention Oda gives supporting characters postskip to achieve the same results as preskip, which was done with less.
I chose Paulie cause he's the bare minimum standard for a good supporting character; how Oda can do so much with so little. The warrior narrative has nothing to do with it. It shows just HOW MUCH extra attention Oda gives them postskip.
Even with Wiper, he still got a lot less panel time, hardly any build up upon introduction and had only one shared flashback in comparison to Kyros, and was still a memorable and pivotal part of Skypia. Wiper achieved the same with less.
I chose Paulie cause he's the bare minimum standard for a good supporting character; how Oda can do so much with so little. The warrior narrative has nothing to do with it. It shows just HOW MUCH extra attention Oda gives them postskip.
Even with Wiper, he still got a lot less panel time, hardly any build up upon introduction and had only one shared flashback in comparison to Kyros, and was still a memorable and pivotal part of Skypia. Wiper achieved the same with less.