Le Fishe Thread Fodder Fist Ace

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#41
Ace is grossly underestimated if you think he's Veteran level. He was invited to be a part of the Shichibukai, and clashed evenly with Water Jinbe over 5 days and came out superior in that instance - that alone proves that he was always, even as a Rookie, superior to the likes of Flying 6, Oven, Daifuku, Snack, Perospero etc,. He further got stronger from then and had one of the best logias in the verse.

Then again, you are overrating him if you think he's superior to Marco. He belongs somewhere in the Commander tier for sure and would've become a solid top tier if he lived to realized his potential.
 
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#45
I always saw him in the Commander range even if on the lower parts. Attacks like Dai Enkai Entei are pretty crazy and take care of pretty much anyone weaker than Commanders.

His feats in his novel and the manga adaptation were pretty crazy but I understand if we're excluding that. His fights against Jimbei and cuffed-Yamato are pretty good feats, especially when that was Ace a few years before pre-timeskip. I don't think any rando with Ace's fruit would be cancelling out Aokiji as efficiently as Ace did so while his fruit is a good counter, it's still a feat for Ace to counter an Admiral's attack. Busting through a number of Baroque works ships and tossing Blackbeard's crew around (plus Teach made clear Ace was too much for the rest) with one hit's also pretty good. Plus, him being invited to be one of the Shinchibukai also highlights his strength, especially when he hadn't been a pirate for that long.

Yeah, Ace's physicals and haki feats could've been better in the manga but his neck didn't break from Teach's chop, he said it almost did but later on, we're literally told that for a dude who'd be expected to be super devil fruit reliant, he was putting up a great fight even with it being countered by the yami yami no mi and that he truly does represent a formidable opponent. His final attack against Teach's in my opinion kinda highlights he's in the Commander range, I don't see many characters busting out such and it's not like it came with apparent drawbacks, it was just a mini-sun he uses as a finisher that spanned nearly half an island.

His potential was also pretty stellar. Conqueror's haki, an amazing fruit, the son of the Pirate King who was taken in by Whitebeard. He'd have made it far and would've reached top-tier in my opinion. As is, I have him as one of the strongest YC4 (possibly weakest YC3 but basically around that area) if you care for those terms. I don't see him near guys like Marco though, that's too much.

:ace:
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#46
Ace is YC4 level character. Base sea stone cuffed Yamato was tie with him. He heavily relies on his DF and has shown zero haki feats.
Land Jinbe handily beat WsW, a "YC4"/ Top Veteran or whatever you wanna call it.
Ace went toe-to-toe with Water Jinbe and then grew stronger. So how does that even make sense?

Ace (near death) > Ace (Rookie) >= Jinbe (water) > Jinbe (land) > YC4s/Veterans.
 
#47
Land Jinbe handily beat WsW, a "YC4"/ Top Veteran or whatever you wanna call it.
Ace went toe-to-toe with Water Jinbe and then grew stronger. So how does that even make sense?

Ace (near death) > Ace (Rookie) >= Jinbe (water) > Jinbe (land) > YC4s/Veterans.
By logic Jimbei became more powerful after time skip and ace is obviously stronger than F6 who are vets
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#49
By logic Jimbei became more powerful after time skip and ace is obviously stronger than F6 who are vets
How? Jinbe already peaked, he reached his prime. He isn't a supernova or a youngster who is still growing and he had zero powerups from back then to now, he is simply using more and more Secret Techniques on panel which he would've 100% used against Ace in a 5 day extreme diff offpaneled battle. Also he didnt really say anything that implies he grew stronger.

Also what even is the difference between Veterans & 'YC4'? Either way, Ace is canonically superior to full power Jinbe, wherever you place him at.
 
#50
How? Jinbe already peaked, he reached his prime. He isn't a supernova or a youngster who is still growing and he had zero powerups from back then to now, he is simply using more and more Secret Techniques on panel which he would've 100% used against Ace in a 5 day extreme diff offpaneled battle. Also he didnt really say anything that implies he grew stronger.

Also what even is the difference between Veterans & 'YC4'? Either way, Ace is canonically superior to full power Jinbe, wherever you place him at.
Every character becomes powerful. Even current akainu can be said is stronger than pre skip. Yeah ace will lose to every commander with the exception of jack maybe. He will win against vets
 

ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#51
Every character becomes powerful. Even current akainu can be said is stronger than pre skip.
Nah it doesn't work that way. You don't get to simply choose which characters become stronger over time and which ones don't, especially with established veteran characters that have already peaked and have reached their potentials.
Regarding Akainu's case, no he doesn't just become stronger like that - and even if he's stronger, there would be a reason for it like a Haki-bloom or other concrete growth.

Yeah ace will lose to every commander with the exception of jack maybe. He will win against vets
And why exactly would he lose to every Commander?
 
#52
Impel down luffy completely dominated bb in physicals in their clash.
That's one of the dumbest takes I've seen on the internet. Bb does this against all enemies. His reaction was even less dramatic against Wb and Sengoku.

Bb broke aces neck and dominated him physically on that island. This is a fact.
Base Bb is very strong considering he scarred Shanks when Mihawk failed to.

Ace is yc3
 
#54
Ace is grossly underestimated if you think he's Veteran level. He was invited to be a part of the Shichibukai, and clashed evenly with Water Jinbe over 5 days and came out superior in that instance - that alone proves that he was always, even as a Rookie, superior to the likes of Flying 6, Oven, Daifuku, Snack, Perospero etc,. He further got stronger from then and had one of the best logias in the verse.

Then again, you are overrating him if you think he's superior to Marco. He belongs somewhere in the Commander tier for sure and would've become a solid top tier if he lived to realized his potential.
Why overrated him? It was stated that Marco and everyone agreed to make Ace the next pirate king after Marineford if he lived.

So Ace should be near, equal or superior to Marco. Seeing how weakened Ace could stop an attack of Aokiji and only losing a fist clash against Akainu due their DF shows he really is near Marco IMO.
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How? Jinbe already peaked, he reached his prime. He isn't a supernova or a youngster who is still growing and he had zero powerups from back then to now, he is simply using more and more Secret Techniques on panel which he would've 100% used against Ace in a 5 day extreme diff offpaneled battle. Also he didnt really say anything that implies he grew stronger.

Also what even is the difference between Veterans & 'YC4'? Either way, Ace is canonically superior to full power Jinbe, wherever you place him at.
That is something many dont get, Jimbei is already big, so his increase in power will be much lower than any rookie and PK potential or conquers haki. Jimbei at best grew 1 tier after his fight with Ace while he could grow 2 or more tiers.

We also have the fact that Ace could damage WB when he joined and when he accepted WB he was doing damage to him, so he obviously grew to the point that casual hits could damage much healthier WB than Marineford WB.
 
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ConquistadoR

The Rogue Prince
#55
Why overrated him? It was stated that Marco and everyone agreed to make Ace the next pirate king after Marineford if he lived.
Where though? Even then, that doesn't necessarily talk about powerlevel but rather about potential & ambition.

So Ace should be near, equal or superior to Marco. Seeing how weakened Ace could stop an attack of Aokiji and only losing a fist clash against Akainu due their DF shows he really is near Marco IMO.
I mean, weakened Ace was able to cancel that attack because of his DF superiority (Fire melting & then vaporizing Ice) while he got soundly beaten against Akainu.
But yes, Ace had a higher potential - he would've surpassed Marco and become an Emperor tier Pirate had he lived further imo.
 
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