Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 977 : "The Party Won't Start Now"
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Sanji vs Doffy was a neg diff battle in Doflamingo's favor. So that comparison doesn't hold up.
Right, we have completely different definitions of extreme diff. Mine would be two characters who push each other to the brink, and are in danger of losing to one another. I.E., Rob Lucci or Luffy, Akainu or Aokiji.
Jack was never in danger of losing to an individual Duke. Jack was never going to come close to being pushed to his extreme limits (which is 5 straight days of combat). So, it's not an extreme diff battle. It's a Mid Diff battle, generously high diff if you want to feel better about the Duke's performance.
You are not factoring Cracker df at all. Luffy with multiple G4 couldn't take down Cracker because of his df. As I said if we don't take df factor into account then yes Cracker endurance is weak in human form just like Jack endurance is weak in his human form since he needed medical attention from Ashura nameless attack.
Jack needed medical attention.
Look at middle right panel. One of his men says he will stop the bleeding.
Do you not read my posts? I used the same page to show how little Jack cared about the injury. His mind is else well.
And no, devil fruits don't factor much in here. Him having hard biscuits doesn't improve his endurance nor his stamina. He cannot take any damage without passing out and 11 hours of clapping his hands had him sweating and huffing. These stats are very low, whereas in Jack they're very high, but his AP isn't.
See how they can lack in one area and dominate in another, balancing them out?
They shouldn't fight, because Jinbe and Jack have no grounds for conflict. Jack's heritage has never played a role in his on screen character. It should be the Sulong Dukes.
But Zoro is definitively (and laughably) above Sanji, despite this relationship they share and it's very similar to King and Queen. The fact Marco has respect from his crew doesn't mean Oda's intentional parallel is any less valid. Interrelationships between crews will be different, that doesn't mean the highlighted role for King is questionable because he isn't a Marco clone.
Right, we have completely different definitions of extreme diff. Mine would be two characters who push each other to the brink, and are in danger of losing to one another. I.E., Rob Lucci or Luffy, Akainu or Aokiji.
Jack was never in danger of losing to an individual Duke. Jack was never going to come close to being pushed to his extreme limits (which is 5 straight days of combat). So, it's not an extreme diff battle. It's a Mid Diff battle, generously high diff if you want to feel better about the Duke's performance.
You are not factoring Cracker df at all. Luffy with multiple G4 couldn't take down Cracker because of his df. As I said if we don't take df factor into account then yes Cracker endurance is weak in human form just like Jack endurance is weak in his human form since he needed medical attention from Ashura nameless attack.Jack needed medical attention.
Look at middle right panel. One of his men says he will stop the bleeding.
And no, devil fruits don't factor much in here. Him having hard biscuits doesn't improve his endurance nor his stamina. He cannot take any damage without passing out and 11 hours of clapping his hands had him sweating and huffing. These stats are very low, whereas in Jack they're very high, but his AP isn't.
See how they can lack in one area and dominate in another, balancing them out?
They shouldn't fight, because Jinbe and Jack have no grounds for conflict. Jack's heritage has never played a role in his on screen character. It should be the Sulong Dukes.
But Zoro is definitively (and laughably) above Sanji, despite this relationship they share and it's very similar to King and Queen. The fact Marco has respect from his crew doesn't mean Oda's intentional parallel is any less valid. Interrelationships between crews will be different, that doesn't mean the highlighted role for King is questionable because he isn't a Marco clone.
So the Kaido Son stuff is really happening. please don't be stupid looking. Oda's designs thsi entire arc have been stupid looking in Orochi, Shinobu, Ashura Doji, Kawamatsu. Please give us one bad ass, cool looking character this arc Oda.
Love Carrot being in that group shot with the crew, she has to be joining now surely.
Ending is a bit weird, ending it with the flying 6's feet just feels so unusual.
great chapter overall i enjoyed.
Love Carrot being in that group shot with the crew, she has to be joining now surely.
Ending is a bit weird, ending it with the flying 6's feet just feels so unusual.
great chapter overall i enjoyed.
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So this îs how they lose in act 3
Idiots luffy and Eustass break in the front Door with 15 Men and get owned by the 40.000.
Then Galaxy brain law and kinemon sneak in from behind and release them from prison in act 4 and round 2 war starts.
Dam i hate the dumb stupida Like luffy that get saved by plot
Idiots luffy and Eustass break in the front Door with 15 Men and get owned by the 40.000.
Then Galaxy brain law and kinemon sneak in from behind and release them from prison in act 4 and round 2 war starts.
Dam i hate the dumb stupida Like luffy that get saved by plot
N
I'll just ignore the other reply and answer this one. How will Luffy reach Cracker if he doesn't destroy his biscuit soldiers? Luffy even with multiple G4 couldn't reach Cracker. Luffy could reach Cracker thanks to Nami without it Luffy would spend a lot of time spamming G4 lol.
Cracker armament haki is also above Luffy that he managed to cut Luffy's hand enforced with armament haki. His endurance doesn't matter if you cannot take down even a single Biscuit Soldier of his and Cracker can spam his Biscuit Soldier without limit while Jack endurance has limit.
The problem is after this chapter I rate the dukes low. I might reevaluate if Jack fight one of monster trio or Luffy.
Are you ignoring my post?
Portrayal and feat
Narrator says he is WB right hand man in WB flashback when Nekomamushi visited Marco's village
Gave order to Vista
Distracted and shot by Kizaru and recovered to fend off Akainu while distracted Jozu lost an arm against Aokiji.
Marco is clearly portrayed above the rest of WB commanders.
Zoro and Sanji are not that far in power scaling. Zoro after mastering Enma is a bit stronger than RS Sanji. King and Queen are portrayed as Kaido's subordinate to be taken down by Luffy's left and right hand man while Marco is portrayed to be potential yonko by gorosei. Clearly different portrayal like Heaven and Earth.
Cracker armament haki is also above Luffy that he managed to cut Luffy's hand enforced with armament haki. His endurance doesn't matter if you cannot take down even a single Biscuit Soldier of his and Cracker can spam his Biscuit Soldier without limit while Jack endurance has limit.
The problem is after this chapter I rate the dukes low. I might reevaluate if Jack fight one of monster trio or Luffy.
Are you ignoring my post?
Portrayal and feat
Narrator says he is WB right hand man in WB flashback when Nekomamushi visited Marco's village
Gave order to Vista
Distracted and shot by Kizaru and recovered to fend off Akainu while distracted Jozu lost an arm against Aokiji.
Marco is clearly portrayed above the rest of WB commanders.
Zoro and Sanji are not that far in power scaling. Zoro after mastering Enma is a bit stronger than RS Sanji. King and Queen are portrayed as Kaido's subordinate to be taken down by Luffy's left and right hand man while Marco is portrayed to be potential yonko by gorosei. Clearly different portrayal like Heaven and Earth.
The arc is filled with so many juggernauts that it's easy to forget how strong these flying six level characters are. You guys remember Pedro? The dude who was arguably stronger than 90% of the strawhat crew? He was an absolute fodder to Perospero.
Mans are so surprised the flying six are noted as strong that they've gifted them a level above veterans. Feel that's because people have been underestimating what it means to be a "veteran" level character to begin with, and underestimating the flying six because of that.
Tamago and Pekoms couldn't lick the soles under the veterans feet, and Tamago was stronger than Pedro. There are levels to the Yonkou crew, and some of the characters right below the calamities/commanders are monsters in their own right. Let's not even talk about the calamities, even someone like Jinbei doesn't hold a candle to characters on that level.
Realistically only Luffy, Zoro, Jinbei, Sanji (wildcard = Nami with Zeus) can deal with the flying six, but since this is a major growth arc where everyone is fighting someone vastly above their level, the others strawhats can chime in. Don't expect Zoro to be anywhere near King, nor is Luffy anywhere near Kaidou, so it's only fair the other strawhats get their equivalents of those battles.
Don't think people quite grasp how deep a Yonkou crew is, there are layers upon layers of strength in there, you didn't have Marines mobilizing everyone and their mothers for no reason, to deal with 1 crew and allies. A bit understandable since WCI made the BMP look like a circus act, but let's not get it twisted, there is plenty of room for heavy hitters below a level high enough to compete with and potentially overpower G4 pre adv haki (which the commanders have shown).
Mans are so surprised the flying six are noted as strong that they've gifted them a level above veterans. Feel that's because people have been underestimating what it means to be a "veteran" level character to begin with, and underestimating the flying six because of that.
Tamago and Pekoms couldn't lick the soles under the veterans feet, and Tamago was stronger than Pedro. There are levels to the Yonkou crew, and some of the characters right below the calamities/commanders are monsters in their own right. Let's not even talk about the calamities, even someone like Jinbei doesn't hold a candle to characters on that level.
Realistically only Luffy, Zoro, Jinbei, Sanji (wildcard = Nami with Zeus) can deal with the flying six, but since this is a major growth arc where everyone is fighting someone vastly above their level, the others strawhats can chime in. Don't expect Zoro to be anywhere near King, nor is Luffy anywhere near Kaidou, so it's only fair the other strawhats get their equivalents of those battles.
Don't think people quite grasp how deep a Yonkou crew is, there are layers upon layers of strength in there, you didn't have Marines mobilizing everyone and their mothers for no reason, to deal with 1 crew and allies. A bit understandable since WCI made the BMP look like a circus act, but let's not get it twisted, there is plenty of room for heavy hitters below a level high enough to compete with and potentially overpower G4 pre adv haki (which the commanders have shown).
Really great post ZenZu, people forget how Powerful Veterans character can be. Perospero alone handle Brook and Chopper easily neg diff, Pedro who was Diamante/Trebol lvl get low diffed too.
Pageone take attacks of RS Sanji without getting minor scratch, he perform a attack casually which let even Franky and Usopp speechless and also get praised by Law.
How much veterans get defeated during the Wci arc? Oven was a beast while tanking everything, same goes for Pero who even stop Godfather attack and Movingment.
Seeing how Oda tease and hype up the flying six fighters, they are sure after the Calamity are big deal,probably the same goes for the Numbers.
In my opinion Veterans are even higher then Vergo and Pica who also aren't weak trashes.
Pageone take attacks of RS Sanji without getting minor scratch, he perform a attack casually which let even Franky and Usopp speechless and also get praised by Law.
How much veterans get defeated during the Wci arc? Oven was a beast while tanking everything, same goes for Pero who even stop Godfather attack and Movingment.
Seeing how Oda tease and hype up the flying six fighters, they are sure after the Calamity are big deal,probably the same goes for the Numbers.
In my opinion Veterans are even higher then Vergo and Pica who also aren't weak trashes.
None of this matters. Literally, my point was; Cracker is lacking in two stats that Jack excels in. The Biscuit Soldiers do not increase his endurance or stamina.
Ok
So Marco is given all that hype and Oda intentionally has us draw links between Marco and King, like I said a few posts ago, yeah?
You're helping my point along here.
They're very far apart. Sanji couldn't beat Mr. Vergo who wasn't using armament or his main weapon. Zoro defeated Vergo's comrade of equal stature without resorting to his ultimate Pre-Skip move.
Marco was hyped because he was the strongest living pirate outside the WG who could possibly become a Yonkou, apart from Teach. That's all. He was brutally defeated.
Ok
So Marco is given all that hype and Oda intentionally has us draw links between Marco and King, like I said a few posts ago, yeah?
You're helping my point along here.
They're very far apart. Sanji couldn't beat Mr. Vergo who wasn't using armament or his main weapon. Zoro defeated Vergo's comrade of equal stature without resorting to his ultimate Pre-Skip move.
Marco was hyped because he was the strongest living pirate outside the WG who could possibly become a Yonkou, apart from Teach. That's all. He was brutally defeated.
N
The biscuit soldiers play a major factor in his fighting style. Without his biscuit soldiers Luffy would easily defeat Cracker one on one.
How am I helping your point? Is King portrayed to be potential yonko? Is King portrayed to be above Queen? Does King give order to Queen?
Zoro and Sanji are close in power just like King and Queen. Before RS Sanji might be weaker but after Sanji used RS he should be close to Zoro power level wise. Let's not ignore Sanji's endurance who tanked Doffy named ttack, the same attack that cut meteor.
Sanji's kick who bruised Oven, the most durable Charlotte (above Katakuri according to VC) and with RS Sanji will be even stronger.
From Marco portrayal in MF, it's not far fetched for Gorosei to hype Marco. He was fast enough to intercept Kizaru who had the speed of light. Strong enough to stop Kizaru's Yasakani of Magatama attack. Fended off Akainu from reaching Luffy. The same Akainu who made BB and his crew ran away in fear.
I can also use that logic that King was recruited by BM because King is from rare race, not because of King's strength but you will resort to Marco and King recruitment are similar like WB/Shanks and Kaido/BM which I will reply again that Marco and King difference of portrayal and this argument will never end.
How am I helping your point? Is King portrayed to be potential yonko? Is King portrayed to be above Queen? Does King give order to Queen?Zoro and Sanji are close in power just like King and Queen. Before RS Sanji might be weaker but after Sanji used RS he should be close to Zoro power level wise. Let's not ignore Sanji's endurance who tanked Doffy named ttack, the same attack that cut meteor.
Sanji's kick who bruised Oven, the most durable Charlotte (above Katakuri according to VC) and with RS Sanji will be even stronger.
From Marco portrayal in MF, it's not far fetched for Gorosei to hype Marco. He was fast enough to intercept Kizaru who had the speed of light. Strong enough to stop Kizaru's Yasakani of Magatama attack. Fended off Akainu from reaching Luffy. The same Akainu who made BB and his crew ran away in fear.
I can also use that logic that King was recruited by BM because King is from rare race, not because of King's strength but you will resort to Marco and King recruitment are similar like WB/Shanks and Kaido/BM which I will reply again that Marco and King difference of portrayal and this argument will never end.
....Does this change the statements I made regarding his stamina or endurance? No, no it does not.
How am I helping your point? Is King portrayed to be potential yonko? Is King portrayed to be above Queen? Does King give order to Queen?
King is portrayed to be the Marco of the Beast Pirates.
They aren't close, Sanji hasn't defeated anyone on Pica's level all series. And to Zoro, that was a game of whack a mole.
Marco's performance? Every time Marco attacked someone, it did zero damage. Marco has yet to injure a character. No, he was named a Yonkou candidate because it was between the Whitebeard Remnants, which he led, and the Blackbeard pirates. There were zero other big names who could be a Yonkou at that point.
Oda set up the scene to match the Shanks/Whitebeard meeting perfectly. King plays the role of Marco, the person another Yonkou wants. That's evidence enough of where he stands. It's a parallel for a reason, very direct and easy to read. It's not something to deconstruct and search hidden meanings for. Oda quite literally split the sky for ya.
How am I helping your point? Is King portrayed to be potential yonko? Is King portrayed to be above Queen? Does King give order to Queen?
They aren't close, Sanji hasn't defeated anyone on Pica's level all series. And to Zoro, that was a game of whack a mole.
Marco's performance? Every time Marco attacked someone, it did zero damage. Marco has yet to injure a character. No, he was named a Yonkou candidate because it was between the Whitebeard Remnants, which he led, and the Blackbeard pirates. There were zero other big names who could be a Yonkou at that point.
Oda set up the scene to match the Shanks/Whitebeard meeting perfectly. King plays the role of Marco, the person another Yonkou wants. That's evidence enough of where he stands. It's a parallel for a reason, very direct and easy to read. It's not something to deconstruct and search hidden meanings for. Oda quite literally split the sky for ya.
I wouldn't place them above Vergo and Pica as a whole, we saw what Vergo could do to Sanji's leg with one casual kick. We saw someone like Vice Admiral Smoker look at Vergo like a big bad wolf. We saw what it took to take Vergo down. We saw what it took to deal with Pica and his OP DF. Both got the "mountain level" panel treatment. Anything less wasn't deemed a big enough moment for them. They're not pushovers.
On an individual level though yes there are probably some veterans/flying six stronger, some weaker, you can argue more on the stronger end than weaker, but that seems to be their general area. Those guys are extremely strong.
Perospero himself is "veteran level". I can see the flying six being stronger as a whole anyway.
This is just make belief but lets say Perespero is a 90, Oven/Daifuku 85. The average tobi roppo can be 88, while the strongest can be 95? Making them stronger as a whole but individually still consider them on the same level.
After this arc, we probably will.
On an individual level though yes there are probably some veterans/flying six stronger, some weaker, you can argue more on the stronger end than weaker, but that seems to be their general area. Those guys are extremely strong.
Perospero himself is "veteran level". I can see the flying six being stronger as a whole anyway.
This is just make belief but lets say Perespero is a 90, Oven/Daifuku 85. The average tobi roppo can be 88, while the strongest can be 95? Making them stronger as a whole but individually still consider them on the same level.
After this arc, we probably will.
I think I'd put the other siblings a little lower, Perospero was a monster. He could make a mountain sized (and detailed) escalator in a moment's notice, lost an arm and stayed awake for 9 hours to lure Linlin away. Made a joke of Brook. Daifuku and Oven lack the intelligence or versatility that helps make Perospero dangerous.
How would you compare Page1 so far with Oven/Daifuku? IMO, he'll be the weakest. I think he's above both.
How would you compare Page1 so far with Oven/Daifuku? IMO, he'll be the weakest. I think he's above both.
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