Chapter Discussion One Piece - Chapter 977 : "The Party Won't Start Now"

[NeutralWatcher]

....Does this change the statements I made regarding his stamina or endurance? No, no it does not.

Yes it changes your statement. Let's say Cracker has 100 HP yeah. If Cracker spams his Biscuit Soldiers his HP will remain 100 until Luffy can hit Cracker. On the other hand, if Cracker doesn't have his Biscuit Soldier Luffy can damage Cracker which reduces Cracker HP. So it doesn't matter if Cracker has bad endurance since he can spam his Biscuit Soldier to overcome his weakness.

King is portrayed to be the Marco of the Beast Pirates.

How? You didn't explain anything about this.
Narrator says Marco is WB right hand man. Narrator doesn't say King is Kaido right hand man.
Gorosei hypes Marco. Gorosei doesn't hype King.
Marco is clearly put above the rest of WB commanders. King is not even be put above Queen.

They aren't close, Sanji hasn't defeated anyone on Pica's level all series. And to Zoro, that was a game of whack a mole.

Sanji's endurance is clearly above Zoro. Without RS he tanked Doffy atatck who cut meteor. Without RS he bruised Oven who is more durable than Katakuri. You still haven't debunked this statement. With RS Sanji is invincible.

Marco's performance? Every time Marco attacked someone, it did zero damage. Marco has yet to injure a character. No, he was named a Yonkou candidate because it was between the Whitebeard Remnants, which he led, and the Blackbeard pirates. There were zero other big names who could be a Yonkou at that point.

Yeah and admirals also cannot damage Marco. Akainu recovered from WB gura gura no mi attack and fought the remnants of WB pirates so how is that bad portrayal for Marco when no admirals can damage him and also when Akainu recovered from WB attack?

You can say gorosei hyped Marco because he is the only WB remnants the same way I can say BM wanted King because of his race not because of King strength. You see where this is going?

Oda set up the scene to match the Shanks/Whitebeard meeting perfectly. King plays the role of Marco, the person another Yonkou wants. That's evidence enough of where he stands. It's a parallel for a reason, very direct and easy to read. It's not something to deconstruct and search hidden meanings for. Oda quite literally split the sky for ya.

And I'll say it again that one portrayal alone is not enough. If he can show better feat than his peer like Queen like Marco with Jozu, if King is said to be Kaido right hand man like narrator says Marco is WB right hand man then I can agree.

 

[Bil02]

So this war is just for the scabbards to take kaido's head in Onigashima as per hyogoro and law..
Well it will certainly not go that way and luffy/law/kid and their crews will step up to the task.
Law wanted to use luffy&kod crews as bait through the center,while the minks led by silician and the samurais led by hyogor attack from the sides as a second bait..
The real attack being from the secret Onigashima entrance at the back where the scabbards take kaido's head while he is drunk.
That plan was also cancelled with kinemon saying he needs to lead the troupes in the attack,and kyoshiro saying 2 factions are going to go through the mountains for the attack while the rest attack from the back with law.
Meaning we will have
-kinemon leading the charge through the center with luffy and kid's crew
-hyogoro leading one side of the attack through the mountains at the side.
-Silician leading the minks from another side through the mountains.
While the remaining scabbards attack through the secret entrance at the back together with law as per Shutenmaru's own words.
Meaning the first ones to get involve in a fight will be kid and luffy's fight since the attack through the center.
Hopefully it happens next chapter.
Also if i get it right,Kid isn't calling the strawhats losers while he sprints through the center, i think he is talking about the samurais who he tosses aside with his boat while sprinting through the center.

 

[ZenZu]

I think I'd put the other siblings a little lower, Perospero was a monster. He could make a mountain sized (and detailed) escalator in a moment's notice, lost an arm and stayed awake for 9 hours to lure Linlin away. Made a joke of Brook. Daifuku and Oven lack the intelligence or versatility that helps make Perospero dangerous.

How would you compare Page1 so far with Oven/Daifuku? IMO, he'll be the weakest. I think he's above both.

Oven has a beastly Devil Fruit, honestly a devil fruit that is bordering top tier fruit status. Infinite range and potential, it parallels the hie hie no mi in many ways. Oven lacks the CQC skills of someone like Vergo, but he makes up for it with an amazing DF. He would beat Perospero because of it, he melts his candy like nothing and he has unlimited range to work with. Heck just by getting angry he can burn you/ your weapon from a distance.

Thing to note too, Sulong makes you exponentially stronger, Oven still made Pekoms look like a fodder in Sulong form.

Having said all that, I'll wait to see how Page 1 is portrayed among the Flying Six, if he is truly shown as the weakest, then no doubt the flying six will be more impressive by a pretty longshot.

 

[Ravagerblade]

I really hope it's her lol

Oh yeah? Why's that? I'm curious?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Yes it changes your statement. Let's say Cracker has 100 HP yeah. If Cracker spams his Biscuit Soldiers his HP will remain 100 until Luffy can hit Cracker. On the other hand, if Cracker doesn't have his Biscuit Soldier Luffy can damage Cracker which reduces Cracker HP. So it doesn't matter if Cracker has bad endurance since he can spam his Biscuit Soldier to overcome his weakness.

This doesn't change my statement; Cracker's endurance is bad because he cannot take pain. It's a horribly low stat for someone of his level. Likewise, his stamina is shown to be subpar as he's huffing and puffing and sweating when he spent 11 hours clapping.

His Biscuit soldiers do not circumvent this. At all.

How? You didn't explain anything about this.
Narrator says Marco is WB right hand man. Narrator doesn't say King is Kaido right hand man.
Gorosei hypes Marco. Gorosei doesn't hype King.
Marco is clearly put above the rest of WB commanders. King is not even be put above Queen.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Lmfao. King is 100% above Queen, are you kidding me? It's in the name.

Sanji's endurance is clearly above Zoro. Without RS he tanked Doffy atatck who cut meteor. Without RS he bruised Oven who is more durable than Katakuri. You still haven't debunked this statement. With RS Sanji is invincible.

Lmao. You're either trolling or this was a misspell.

Zoro's still stronger, has defeated an opponent beyond anyone Sanji's fought and did so without resorting to a PU from fifteen years ago. There's really nothing else to say—the manga depicts them in two different leagues and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

Yeah and admirals also cannot damage Marco. Akainu recovered from WB gura gura no mi attack and fought the remnants of WB pirates so how is that bad portrayal for Marco when no admirals can damage him and also when Akainu recovered from WB attack?

Because of his devil fruit, he's able to hang with people out of his league. But being a punching bag doesn't make his Marineford actions the least bit impressive / Yonkou worthy. He dies the moment his DF regen. wears off. Sad truth of Marco, he's a one trick pony.

You can say gorosei hyped Marco because he is the only WB remnants the same way I can say BM wanted King because of his race not because of King strength. You see where this is going?

And Shanks wanted Marco... Just because. He saw him and offered him a place on his crew. He didn't hype his strength or his standings with Whitebeard. Just said, "Hey, I know you... You're Marco of the first division, come join me crew!"

I feel like you're missing the point of Oda purposefully repeating that scene. Tell me, why did Oda decide to do it? Why did he have Big Mom take a minute interest in King like Shanks had with Marco? Could it be Oda's trying to link us these characters and these moments? Or are you going to continue to deny it and brush it aside?

And I'll say it again that one portrayal alone is not enough. If he can show better feat than his peer like Queen like Marco with Jozu, if King is said to be Kaido right hand man like narrator says Marco is WB right hand man then I can agree.

He's already shown better feats than Queen. He's shown better attitude than Queen in the face of a Yonkou. His name itself tells us he's above Queen.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

Are Heat and Wire the "Sanji and Jinbe" of KPs?

Where is Wanda? Why didn't she and Carrot helped in the entrance raid?

 

[Monkey D. Luffy]

Marco is clearly put above the rest of WB commanders. King is not even be put above Queen.

King is higher than "Queen" in a game of cards and only his bounty remains a mystery.

 

[thedarkdragon11]

And oh, I'm claiming it: Kaido's son would be Usopp's prey...

 

[Bil02]

The samurai flying six has a sword whose sheath ressembles strangely the Enma sheath.
Can it be possible that Kozaborou or Hitetsu also made that guy's sword?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Oven has a beastly Devil Fruit, honestly a devil fruit that is bordering top tier fruit status. Infinite range and potential, it parallels the hie hie no mi in many ways. Oven lacks the CQC skills of someone like Vergo, but he makes up for it with an amazing DF. He would beat Perospero because of it, he melts his candy like nothing and he has unlimited range to work with. Heck just by getting angry he can burn you/ your weapon from a distance.

Thing to note too, Sulong makes you exponentially stronger, Oven still made Pekoms look like a fodder in Sulong form.

Having said all that, I'll wait to see how Page 1 is portrayed among the Flying Six, if he is truly shown as the weakest, then no doubt the flying six will be more impressive by a pretty longshot.

It's a good devil fruit in the proper environment, it's not like he can freely send tendrils of heat out or anything. Seems like he works best with objects that easily transfer heat, like Pedro's sword or the ocean. I don't think it's bordering on top tier though, and his physicals need a lot of work.

True, but isn't it mostly mastered Sulong that makes you real strong? Isn't it a double edged sword for everyone else? Couldn't be bothered to double check though.

 

[Hurley Pirates]

Gin became a swordsman and flying 6?

Ive never been more down for a random theory in my life lmao

 

[NeutralWatcher]

This doesn't change my statement; Cracker's endurance is bad because he cannot take pain. It's a horribly low stat for someone of his level. Likewise, his stamina is shown to be subpar as he's huffing and puffing and sweating when he spent 11 hours clapping.

His Biscuit soldiers do not circumvent this. At all.

His endurance is an issue if Luffy can hit him immediately but that's not possible since Luffy has to spam G4 to destroy Cracker's Biscuit Soldiers so again irrelevant. And Cracker kept clapping because Luffy kept eating Cracker Biscuit Soldiers thanks to Nami who made it wet.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Lmfao. King is 100% above Queen, are you kidding me? It's in the name.

So only that portrayal?
Can you show me a panel that narrator calls King Kaido right hand man?
Can you show me King's feat that is above Queen?
Can you show me a panel when King orders Queen? And no Jack doesn't count since Jack also follows Queen order.

Lmao. You're either trolling or this was a misspell.

Zoro's still stronger, has defeated an opponent beyond anyone Sanji's fought and did so without resorting to a PU from fifteen years ago. There's really nothing else to say—the manga depicts them in two different leagues and I'm tired of pretending otherwise.

What about his endurance Base Sanji tanked Doffy attack who cut meteor. Base Sanji bruised Oven who is more durable than Katakuri.
And this is just base Sanji

And Shanks wanted Marco... Just because. He saw him and offered him a place on his crew. He didn't hype his strength or his standings with Whitebeard. Just said, "Hey, I know you... You're Marco of the first division, come join me crew!"

I feel like you're missing the point of Oda purposefully repeating that scene. Tell me, why did Oda decide to do it? Why did he have Big Mom take a minute interest in King like Shanks had with Marco? Could it be Oda's trying to link us these characters and these moments? Or are you going to continue to deny it and brush it aside?

That's just one portrayal. Narrator still doesn't say King as Kaido right hand man. King is still portrayed as another villain to be defeated by Zoro while Marco fought off admirals.

He's already shown better feats than Queen. He's shown better attitude than Queen in the face of a Yonkou. His name itself tells us he's above Queen.

What better feat?
Also attitude has nothing to do with strength.
Well he might be above Queen but the difference might be not that far. King might be stronger than Queen by a smaller margin just like how Zoro is stronger than Sanji by a smaller margin while Marco is way stronger than Jozu and Vista.

 

[Shiroyru]

The arc is filled with so many juggernauts that it's easy to forget how strong these flying six level characters are. You guys remember Pedro? The dude who was arguably stronger than 90% of the strawhat crew? He was an absolute fodder to Perospero.

Mans are so surprised the flying six are noted as strong that they've gifted them a level above veterans. Feel that's because people have been underestimating what it means to be a "veteran" level character to begin with, and underestimating the flying six because of that.

Tamago and Pekoms couldn't lick the soles under the veterans feet, and Tamago was stronger than Pedro. There are levels to the Yonkou crew, and some of the characters right below the calamities/commanders are monsters in their own right. Let's not even talk about the calamities, even someone like Jinbei doesn't hold a candle to characters on that level.

Realistically only Luffy, Zoro, Jinbei, Sanji (wildcard = Nami with Zeus) can deal with the flying six, but since this is a major growth arc where everyone is fighting someone vastly above their level, the others strawhats can chime in. Don't expect Zoro to be anywhere near King, nor is Luffy anywhere near Kaidou, so it's only fair the other strawhats get their equivalents of those battles.

Don't think people quite grasp how deep a Yonkou crew is, there are layers upon layers of strength in there, you didn't have Marines mobilizing everyone and their mothers for no reason, to deal with 1 crew and allies. A bit understandable since WCI made the BMP look like a circus act, but let's not get it twisted, there is plenty of room for heavy hitters below a level high enough to compete with and potentially overpower G4 pre adv haki (which the commanders have shown).

Agreed. Vet level and YC4 level are the same thing tbh

 

[BOCCHI]

Gin became a swordsman and flying 6?

If by any chance this is true I wanna see Sanji vs Gin rematch!!

 

[Shiroyru]

The arc is filled with so many juggernauts that it's easy to forget how strong these flying six level characters are. You guys remember Pedro? The dude who was arguably stronger than 90% of the strawhat crew? He was an absolute fodder to Perospero.

Mans are so surprised the flying six are noted as strong that they've gifted them a level above veterans. Feel that's because people have been underestimating what it means to be a "veteran" level character to begin with, and underestimating the flying six because of that.

Tamago and Pekoms couldn't lick the soles under the veterans feet, and Tamago was stronger than Pedro. There are levels to the Yonkou crew, and some of the characters right below the calamities/commanders are monsters in their own right. Let's not even talk about the calamities, even someone like Jinbei doesn't hold a candle to characters on that level.

Realistically only Luffy, Zoro, Jinbei, Sanji (wildcard = Nami with Zeus) can deal with the flying six, but since this is a major growth arc where everyone is fighting someone vastly above their level, the others strawhats can chime in. Don't expect Zoro to be anywhere near King, nor is Luffy anywhere near Kaidou, so it's only fair the other strawhats get their equivalents of those battles.

Don't think people quite grasp how deep a Yonkou crew is, there are layers upon layers of strength in there, you didn't have Marines mobilizing everyone and their mothers for no reason, to deal with 1 crew and allies. A bit understandable since WCI made the BMP look like a circus act, but let's not get it twisted, there is plenty of room for heavy hitters below a level high enough to compete with and potentially overpower G4 pre adv haki (which the commanders have shown).

Also where do you place the RA commanders? I think that they’re portrayed as Vet level since they’re portrayed below Ivankov, who doesn’t even deserve to be placed on YC3 level rn. Just goes to show that Oda doesn’t consider Vets to be pushovers even against characters as strong as Fuji and Ryo considering that they could fight against those two for quite a while with just the help of a single YC1

 

[Sadistic Senpai]

That'd be really cool. I hope something like that happens, let Big Mom do something smart and force Drake to the alliance's side.

Or at least gives Kaido a heads up... to not really attack Drake.. but at least to keep an eye on him... so that it becomes a battle of anticipation.. Kaido anticipates his betrayel... and Drake anticipates a good opportunity to turn on him...

 

[ZenZu]

It's a good devil fruit in the proper environment, it's not like he can freely send tendrils of heat out or anything. Seems like he works best with objects that easily transfer heat, like Pedro's sword or the ocean. I don't think it's bordering on top tier though, and his physicals need a lot of work.

Any ability that lets you play with temperature, especially not because of a byproduct (Ice or Snow) but raising or lowering temperature directly, has unlimited potential. The only other fruit that does that is the chilly chilly fruit, this one is the heat heat fruit. Can you imagine awakening with this fruit? Reaching Yama ji level temperatures potentially. Not saying Oven has mastered it to that extent, but he has one hell of a fruit. At his current level yea it seems he's limited by objects that transfer heat but that in itself is pretty impressive since he doesn't even have to come into contact with them.

True, but isn't it mostly mastered Sulong that makes you real strong? Isn't it a double edged sword for everyone else? Couldn't be bothered to double check though.

I take it mastered mostly means you can deal with its side effects better, we've seen Carrot get exponentially faster/stronger despite not having it mastered, so no not really. You can argue she went from well below Brook's level to clear cut above mid trio in that form, that's a big jump. Consider Pekoms should already be much stronger than her in base, makes it even more impressive that Oven could neutralize him so quickly.

Same way Luffy hadn't mastered g4, with clear side effects. It being a double edged sword doesn't change the fact that the form itself gave him a massive boost.

Also where do you place the RA commanders? I think that they’re portrayed as Vet level since they’re portrayed below Ivankov, who doesn’t even deserve to be placed on YC3 level rn. Just goes to show that Oda doesn’t consider Vets to be pushovers even against characters as strong as Fuji and Ryo considering that they could fight against those two for quite a while with just the help of a single YC1

I think RA commanders are gonna end up like the warlords, no real level to them. Just a clusterfuck of differing levels. They are highly unimpressive judging by Ivankov, not saying Ivankov is a pushover but I hold Yonkou commanders in a higher regard.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Yeah, think I'm done with you Watcher lmao. At this point I'm pretty sure you're either trolling or in dire need of a reread.

His endurance is an issue if Luffy can hit him immediately but that's not possible since Luffy has to spam G4 to destroy Cracker's Biscuit Soldiers so again irrelevant. And Cracker kept clapping because Luffy kept eating Cracker Biscuit Soldiers thanks to Nami who made it wet.

So, you admit he has bad endurance / stamina? "It's only bad ifff someone can destroy his biscuits!" is like me saying Jack only has bad AP if you're above Vet pay grade.

Glad we could agree here.

So only that portrayal?
Can you show me a panel that narrator calls King Kaido right hand man?
Can you show me King's feat that is above Queen?
Can you show me a panel when King orders Queen? And no Jack doesn't count since Jack also follows Queen order.

"Oda only decided to draw the same scene again and had King play the part of Marco, but that means nothing!!!!!" - Biasedwatcher

What about his endurance Base Sanji tanked Doffy attack who cut meteor. Base Sanji bruised Oven who is more durable than Katakuri.
And this is just base Sanji

You're repeating the same statements as if they matter. I'm not quite sure why you're doing this. Zoro split a mountain and still hasn't gone all out yet. Sanji got a PU and couldn't defeat someone below Pica. Hell, couldn't beat someone weaker than Vergo. Having Sanji and Zoro being equal is, once again, reading the manga backwards.

That's just one portrayal. Narrator still doesn't say King as Kaido right hand man. King is still portrayed as another villain to be defeated by Zoro while Marco fought off admirals.



What better feat?

Do you need Oda to break the fourth wall to wipe the spit from your lip too? This is asinine, if Oda goes outta his way to draw something a second time, it's to clue the reader in. You, apparently, decided to skip that chapter or read some wonky translation of it. I'm not sure which.

King literally knocked Big Mom's memories out of her head and a crew, supporting a YC2, could do nothing to stop King. But sure, he's only YC2 himself lmfao.

Also attitude has nothing to do with strength.
Well he might be above Queen but the difference might be not that far. King might be stronger than Queen by a smaller margin just like how Zoro is stronger than Sanji by a smaller margin while Marco is way stronger than Jozu and Vista.

>Queen is terrified of a conscious Big Mom
>King attacks her, and later rejects her offer

Oda is making a statement here. I'll give you a couple hours to decide, if the literal names King and Queen weren't enough to clue you in on who's stronger.

 

[Hurley Pirates]

If by any chance this is true I wanna see Sanji vs Gin rematch!!

Hes even got dragons on his jacket!

Only problem is Kaido already has a Gin rummy on his crew

 

[Jackteo]

>Queen is terrified of a conscious Big Mom

Queen is always terrified