Controversial Powerscalers don't understand One Piece

Do you agree with my position ?


  • Total voters
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Doesn't change the fact that sanjs 2 interactions with king ended up with him on his ass
And zoro pre power up has feats vs yonko
Sanji saved Momo and King didn't do any injury to him and Sanji could fight King alongside Queen before his Power up which makes him phisically stronger, more durable and so on.
Zoro was being overpowered by King worse than Sanji:

Imagine this Zoro against King and Queen together.
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Guess it just looks special, then.

Either way, with it, King was able to clash with Zoro. That in itself is a huge feat considering Zoro broke regular katanas like paper pre-skip.

Queen's blade broke on Sanji without doing any damage whatsoever- same Sanji who took moderate damage from being flung into a wall by Queen.

Don't see any reason to equate Queen's blade to King's.
Queen's Blade were capable of putting Drake on his knees.
 
Kaku was inexperienced with his devil fruit and kept making mistakes. Jabra had over a decade to master his fruit and enhance its strengths.

Are you serious dude?
Yet Kaku actually looked more inventive and better with his DF than Jabra, who didn't do anything special lol. Makes sense, the dude's a lazy fuck who got surpassed by everything and everyone. Stagnant fellow, isn't he?

Queen's Blade were capable of putting Drake on his knees.
What does that have anything to do with my comparison, which is pretty clear-cut? Queen's blade is durable enough to be very, very easily shattered by just the arm slam Queen did to Sanji in 1034.
 
Edit : Because some people don't seem to differenciate narrative talk and powerscalling :



Most powerscalers (no matter whom they consider their fave, but it's mostly prevalent among Zoro and Mihawk fans as far as I can tell) don't understand how Oda sees the power dynamics in the crew, not even AFTER he wrote a whole explanation for them back in Enies Lobby with the Doriki.

Lucci : 4 000
Kaku : 2 200
Jabura : 2 180

The other ones are irrelevant here. What's matter is the following facts : the Doriki are calculated in base human form, meaning that Jabura is slightly below Kaku and Lucci extremely ahead of both.

Another fact is that carnivorous Zoans are said to be better suited for battle. Wether or not you consider it a truth or more of rumor, it doesn't change the fact that gaining claws and fangs to fight make it easier to empower the fighting-style of a non-swordman. The gap between transformed Kaku and Jabura thus remains largely the same, both displaying abilities they couldn't or wouldn't use in base form.

Therefore, Enies Lobby was an attempt - which somehow failed because of his readership's lack of comprehension, clearly - by Oda to explains how the future arc's battle would be decided and what it meant for the power dynamic in the crew's top fighters. Luffy fight the strongest, Zoro the 2nd strongest (who is serious), Sanji the third strongest (who is more of a clown/funny character, at least design wise). It was something he had done in Alabasta, kind of muddled by playing with in Skypiea but then always followed in the arcs which have followed Enies Lobby.

It doesn't mean, however, that each arc is a carbon copy of the others but that Oda has a very simple formula he uses, which can be summed as such : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.

Other characters may be extremely close to them (such as Jinbe currently) but Oda's goal is to have Luffy fight the strongest member of the opposite crew, Zoro the second strongest and Sanji the third strongest. Hence why in Wano Law and Kidd fought with Big Mom, who was the strongest member of another crew, distinct from the Beast Pirates.

Even the fabled Rooftop Five had a clear difference between the captains, who were outclassed but largely able to held their own against two Emperors, and the two vice-captains who were wheezing and panting long before the others, because while they are extremely powerful themselves, they simply don't play in the same legue than Luffy, Kidd and Law.

You could argue that the New World arcs haven't been like that, and you would be both right and wrong. Right because, indeed, on several occasions, Sanji didn't fight the third strongest (Punk Hazard, Dressrosa, Whole Cake Island). However, you'd be wrong because out of those, Sanji fought the strongest one for a time on Punk Hazard (Vergo), with the results that we know - for fairness sake, I must say I'm pretty confident he wouldn't have had such a bad showing if his body hadn't been severely damaged before hand when Nami had it -, was absent from Dressrosa when the fight started and had to flee Totto Land with half the crew, meaning that since Fishman Island, Wano was the first arc with a full crew (Punk Hazard being a mini-arc where there simply wasn't enough opponents for the crew, I don't consider it a full arc, kind of like Zou but with battles, if you will).

And in Wano, again, the formula was respected : Luffy fought Kaido (who was far stronger than King and Queen), Zoro fought the serious one and Sanji the funny one.

Anyone willing to read One Piece without preconception will of course notice that it wasn't always the case. At first, Zoro was more clearly Luffy's equal (just look at Whiskey Peak, the whole fight with Mihawk being basically Zoro's Shanks, going as far as being depicted as a "friend" of Shanks, etc.). Early arcs even had some surprising twist and turns (Hacchi being probably weaker than Kuroobi - or at least far more funny than the latter, which in nowadays' arcs would make him an opponent for Sanji). However, by Little Garden, another arc largely designed to highlight this rivalry, was probably the moment Oda decided that Zoro and Sanji would be real rivals, just like Dorry and Broggy.

But what about the bounties ?

The truth of the matter is that it isn't the exact numbers on it which matters (otherwise Zoro would have been weaker than Robin from Alabasta to Enies Lobby, or than Sanji during Wano) but rather a matter of range. Is your bounty in the low decades ? You're super weak, except if you're a rookie starting in East Blue. It's in the high decades/reach a hundred or even several on Paradise ? You're somewhat strong for a pirate on the first part of Grand Line. If you're bounty is between 500 000 000 and 1 billion you are already a legendary pirate. Above, you're in a very select club of monsters who could pretend to someday become an Emperor.

Above 2 billion, you are an Emperor or at least on their level in term of fighting abilities (Buggy not being concerned by it, of course).

Does it mean that Oda is great or terrible because he clings to this formula and makes sure it remains true no matter what power-ups are needed by the characters for it to remain in place ? The answer depends on everyone's opinion about what the core of One Piece is. For me, it's not the combat so the crew's dynamics remaining largely the same is perfect for me. For someone who considers battles to be the main attraction of One Piece, of course the answer would be vastly different.

But it doesn't change the fact that most discussions about powerscalling or some theories (ZKK most notably but it isn't the only one) can be pretty firmly debunked when one consider One Piece through those very simple lenses : Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji.
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Sanji saved Momo and King didn't do any injury to him and Sanji could fight King alongside Queen before his Power up which makes him phisically stronger, more durable and so on.
Zoro was being overpowered by King worse than Sanji:

Imagine this Zoro against King and Queen together.
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Queen's Blade were capable of putting Drake on his knees.
Sanji was kod.
King hit him before the numbers even got to the floor
Sanji woke up after franky hit him with a laser.

King actually tried against zoro unlike sanji
 

HA001

World's Strongest Swordsman
Even Zoro said Queen Is a difficult fight for him when you talking about

And CoO makes you capable of sensing how strong someone Is, and Zoro couldn't choice which Road would have been easier between King and Queen considering both difficult for him to go through to reach the rooftop.
He said it won't be simple ie he'd have to waste power before he gets to kaido
 
Queen's arm Is enough to make this expression in Zoro's face.

Don't act like Queen can't hurt Zoro lol
He... noticed it. His face was like how it always is.

Of course taking any attack on bare skin would hurt him lol. Sanji's body durabilty >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Zoro OR Luffy. Those two don't have enhanced durability other than blunt stuff w/o haki for Luffy, they do defenses. Queen won't hurt him with that if he used his blade or CoA to blcok, though.

But irrelevant to my point that Queen's sword is so fodder that it can be easily broken by the arm thrust Queen did in 1034.
 
A giraffe would neg a wolf
Cool. A bumbling baby giraffe would be eaten.
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Yet Kaku actually looked more inventive and better with his DF than Jabra, who didn't do anything special lol. Makes sense, the dude's a lazy fuck who got surpassed by everything and everyone. Stagnant fellow, isn't he?


What does that have anything to do with my comparison, which is pretty clear-cut? Queen's blade is durable enough to be very, very easily shattered by just the arm slam Queen did to Sanji in 1034.
Cap. Jabra incorporated his df into rokushiki. Kaku was experimenting and making mistakes.

Don't be confused. Even lucci said experience matters with df.
 
This is not the post I expected from the title.

Doriki were his attemps to set in stone that there was a hierarchy in the crew which wouldn't change, and that theories which basically state "in Elbaf Usopp will become stronger than X" are plain wrong because of it. Not because it couldn't happen, but because it wouldn't fit the narrative Oda is pursuing.
If your point here is that Doriki is the most powerful example of Oda explaining his hierarchy, I would say that's not true. We have way more powerful and explicit examples of Oda clearly ranking the SH crew, not just with words or numbers, but with panels, framing, and characterization. Anyone with a brain can see that it goes Luffy, Zoro, Sanji. They may be close to each other--even very close!-- but that's the top 3 default.

I would like to hear your definition of hierarchy though. Because it sounds kind of like you're only basing it on strength. Do you believe that Oda's hierarchy in the crew is also about leadership? Dependability? Decision-making? Authority? The ability to recruit friends? Surely it's not just based on who's the strongest.

Doriki was Oda's homage to Toriyama. Oda knows that certain fans love to rank and argue and recategorize things. He likes to give them fuel because he's a troll.

That said, I hate powerleveling. It feels like a very superficial way to read a story, and it brings out agendas that can cloud the way the story is experienced. HOWEVER, that doesn't mean that those people don't understand OP. The fact is, once the story is published and put out in the world, people will interpret it any way they want. Author's intent means little. If people CAN find clues to strengthen their hypotheses, they WILL find them. That's how we get people who "missed the point of Fight Club" or think Apocalypse Now is a cool war movie. They may have misinterpreted the author's intended message, but even very superficial reactions to a work are valid as long as they're based on information given by the author.

This is no different than shipping wars. People come in with a prejudice, then find clues to fit that prejudice and argue with other people who found their own favorable clues.

Part of the reason there are so many ways to read OP is because it's so long, obviously. But another is that Oda purposefully gives us conflicting, incomplete, or sometimes straight-up false info. The author has given us a vast amount of information, and it can be interpreted in an infinite number of ways. Back to the idea of author's intent, Oda makes sure we understand that although the crew's formal ranking remains 99.9% stable, there's always room for someone to have a random powerup that makes us question true strength. I mean, how strong is Franky, really? Who knows? Not enough feats, I assume. It's the same as the situation with Rayleigh the Dark King. Could he have beaten Roger in a fight? Maybe. That's the implication in the phrase "Dark King--" that he could've been at the top himself in another timeline. Powerlevelers aren't misunderstanding OP; they're just focusing on an aspect of analysis that I don't enjoy.
 
I couldn't care less about Doriki but what I found funny is that those same kind of people are using pre-timeskip shits for post-timeskip stuff because so called "But but it matters" Lmao.

Luffy > Zoro > Sanji was always the norm. If Luffy high diff Zoro then Zoro high diff Sanji. If Luffy extreme diff Zoro then Zoro extreme diff Sanji. Simple as that. No insecure Luffytards, Zorotards and Sanjitards can change that perception no matter how triggered they may be.

Also, people are too invested in power scaling when Oda himself doesn't know what he's doing with character's strength.
 
So did Kaku for the former, and in far more creative manners, too. He incorporated every aspect of Giraffe into it and made much more use of his DF than Jabra.

Jabra might've had more experience, but he lacked the creativity to actually do much.
Cap. Jabra mastered his fruit for a decade and the result is the moves he knows works best for his fighting style.

My favorite is that you're lying. Man's tekkai mixed with zoan powers was his specialty. Foh shanal. You're stupid and lose everytime we debate.
 
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