Controversial Powerscalers don't understand One Piece
- Thread starter Sakura no Hiluluk
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Zoro had worse feats than sanji in the beginning.
Zoro was playing catch up. For example
-Zoro couldn't carry luffy in a small cage
-Sanji was casually kicking aside huge boats with mounted canons. Don krieg struggled to even pick it up.
-Zoro moved faster than eyesight for fodder in whiskey peak
-sanji did this in his intro
-zoro displayed coa haki in alabasta
-sanji showed coo haki in little garden
Pre ts showed sanji as his real rival. Let's not lie to people.
Zoro was playing catch up. For example
-Zoro couldn't carry luffy in a small cage
-Sanji was casually kicking aside huge boats with mounted canons. Don krieg struggled to even pick it up.
-Zoro moved faster than eyesight for fodder in whiskey peak
-sanji did this in his intro
-zoro displayed coa haki in alabasta
-sanji showed coo haki in little garden
Pre ts showed sanji as his real rival. Let's not lie to people.
Sanji Will Always be Number 3.
But Zoro and Sanji's gap Will Always be less than the One between Luffy and Zoro and this arc comfirmed It.
Yonko >>> a commander like King, even feats that you like confirm It.
Greenbull destroyed King + Queen with ease, Kaido would do exactly the same or even with less difficulty.
Luffy defeated Kaido, Zoro defeated King and Sanji defeated Queen.
Queen can keep up with King as shown by their fight against Marco, Marco considers both strong opponent worthy of 1+ bilion bounty, even Zoro when had to choice between the root supervised by Queen and the One by King said that both of them weren't Easy at all.
King cannot keep up with Kaido, the villain close to Kaido and considered a 2nd Kaido was Big Mom Who was defeated by Luffy's rivals.
But Zoro and Sanji's gap Will Always be less than the One between Luffy and Zoro and this arc comfirmed It.
Yonko >>> a commander like King, even feats that you like confirm It.
Greenbull destroyed King + Queen with ease, Kaido would do exactly the same or even with less difficulty.
Luffy defeated Kaido, Zoro defeated King and Sanji defeated Queen.
Queen can keep up with King as shown by their fight against Marco, Marco considers both strong opponent worthy of 1+ bilion bounty, even Zoro when had to choice between the root supervised by Queen and the One by King said that both of them weren't Easy at all.
King cannot keep up with Kaido, the villain close to Kaido and considered a 2nd Kaido was Big Mom Who was defeated by Luffy's rivals.
Think the main problem with powerscaling is that people go to deep in it.
Of course there's some "slots" of Power where certain characteres fit, the nonsense start when some of u guys try to use numbers to scale or enter those endless topics about who beat who and start this "X high/mid/low-diff Y".
Its clear that there's a "top tier slot" with characteres like Kaido, BM, Shanks, Mihawk, Admirals and Luffy in it, and that there's another "slot" bellow with Zoro, King, Katakuri, Marco, etc and that characteres from the second cant beat the ones from the first, but when the comparisson is between characteres inside the "same tier" its much more about the plot them the strengt of the character.
On the Luffy, Zoro, Sanji thing, its obvious that Luffy is much stronger, than Zoro in second and Sanji in a close third, just look the enemies Oda make for the three since Alabasta and u can see it.
Of course there's some "slots" of Power where certain characteres fit, the nonsense start when some of u guys try to use numbers to scale or enter those endless topics about who beat who and start this "X high/mid/low-diff Y".
Its clear that there's a "top tier slot" with characteres like Kaido, BM, Shanks, Mihawk, Admirals and Luffy in it, and that there's another "slot" bellow with Zoro, King, Katakuri, Marco, etc and that characteres from the second cant beat the ones from the first, but when the comparisson is between characteres inside the "same tier" its much more about the plot them the strengt of the character.
On the Luffy, Zoro, Sanji thing, its obvious that Luffy is much stronger, than Zoro in second and Sanji in a close third, just look the enemies Oda make for the three since Alabasta and u can see it.
Why can't Kidd be more narratively important for the climax here and simply have more narrative impact as well as role to play without being stronger than Zoro? 
It seems like a lot of people who use same argument as yours try to say how "Power scalers" look too much into feats and whatnot trying to make everything about scaling, etc, but aren't you doing the same?
You're looking at a hierarchy and you're dumbing it down to "Oda did this to show us who is stronger" all while ignoring other aspects such as those three being the captains and main three leaders of new era, bringing down the former two biggest Yonkos, ushering in the next generation, taking theirs to the big stage now, etc, etc.
Those who take things deep can be bad, but those who take everything presented as surface level to "THIS IS POWER WHICH ODA DREW TO SHOW STRONK, YES IT'S TRUE!" aren't doing any better either lol
It seems like a lot of people who use same argument as yours try to say how "Power scalers" look too much into feats and whatnot trying to make everything about scaling, etc, but aren't you doing the same?
You're looking at a hierarchy and you're dumbing it down to "Oda did this to show us who is stronger" all while ignoring other aspects such as those three being the captains and main three leaders of new era, bringing down the former two biggest Yonkos, ushering in the next generation, taking theirs to the big stage now, etc, etc.
Those who take things deep can be bad, but those who take everything presented as surface level to "THIS IS POWER WHICH ODA DREW TO SHOW STRONK, YES IT'S TRUE!" aren't doing any better either lol
You say powerscalers don't understand One Piece, but then make a thread about powerlevels. That doesn't make any sense.
From a narrative point of view if you ignore the "powerlevel".
Chapter 5: "The Pirate King & The Master Swordsman". Only crewmate Luffy actually sought out for strength.
Arlong park: Arlong is scared of Zoro's potential because of his face when facing death
Loguetown: Smoker is reminded of the PK when seeing Luffy's face when facing death. Luffy's luck is tested when a lightening bolt comes down with the sword only inches away from his neck. Zoro's luck is tested when he swing the sword up and it just goes around his arm instead of cutting it off clean. Just coincidence guys!!!!!
Post-Arlong: Wait a minute, the guy who luffy said he's surpass in chapter 1 & the guy who Zoro said he's surpass in Baratie... were rivals?
Whiskey Peak: Both Tie
Water 7: Both get put into similar situations that gain similar reactions with the wall stuck & chimney
Ennis Lobby: Zoro being mistakened as the Captain
Ennis Lobby fights: Zoro beats Lucci's inferior Kaku in a mid-diff fight. Luffy vs Lucci goes to a point where Luffy doesn't even win without Franky's interference at the start, and even then went to the point Luffy can't stand up. That shits on the entire "doriki" point of view.
Thriller Bark: Zoro gets his willpower tested by Kuma (Dragon's underling) with enduring all of Luffy's pain, where he's got only a tiny chance of making it out alive.
Saboady: Oh dang Zoro was going to cut up a Celestial Dragon if Bonney didn't step in. Oh dang Luffy punched a Celestial Dragon because nobody came to stop him like Bonney. Pure coincidence. Oh my Zoro isn't treated as your typical right hand man like Killer & Bepo, but instead it's Sanji.
Impel Down: Luffy gets his willpower tested where he's only got a very small chance in making it out alive by another one of Dragon's subordinates, Ivankov.
Timeskip: Whoa both of their training involves directly with learning of Haki. Where they're fighting superior opponent(s) while doing it.
FMI: Whoa Luffy faced off against Zoro's final opponent, and Zoro faced off against Luffy's final opponent before the final fights?
Post-FMI: Is that Zoro challenging Luffy to a competition?
Dressrosa: Is that Zoro saying Luffy should've told him about the tournament, where he would've had to compete against Luffy? Is that Luffy & Zoro who go up against the admiral in the arc at different moments of time?
Start of Wano: Oh Luffy & Zoro having side by side speed moment, sick. Both get their "duo time" before pairing up with the entire squad again.
Wano end of Act 2: Oh wow do my eyes deceive me, it's Zoro & Luffy training near each other related to Haki mastery.. where if they master it, they'd be able to damage Kaido. NO! It certainly can't be!!!
Rooftop of Wano Act 3: Luffy & Zoro doing teamwork in their rooftop fight. Zoro landing the biggest blow on Kaido in that 5 vs 2?! Zoro taking on the biggest attack from the emperors in that 5 vs 2?! It certainly can't be!
Post-Rooftop of Wano act 3: Zoro faces an opponent who's even harder to damage than Kaido?! And despite his condition he manages to cut him up after he gains the power to do it?! Wait a minute, I wonder what would've happened if Zoro got the "reset" against Kaido like Luffy did multiple times, where now he's able to 1 shot somebody who has much more harder to damage than Kaido, when the only reason he struggled against Kaido was because he couldn't damage him properly. I wonder what would happen now.
End of Wano act 3: IT CAN'T BE!!.. Zoro & Luffy are out together side by side for the same amount of time?! Oh no this doesn't mean anything at all.
You can't talk about narrative and powerscaler non-sense, and then make a claim like Luffy >>>> Zoro, which goes against the very narrative Oda has continued to establish since start of the series. That The Pirate King & The Master Swordsman will always be near each other.
Portrayal / narrative is the last thing you want to use if you want to claim Luffy >>> Zoro, stick to "feats only" for that.
From a narrative point of view if you ignore the "powerlevel".
Chapter 5: "The Pirate King & The Master Swordsman". Only crewmate Luffy actually sought out for strength.
Arlong park: Arlong is scared of Zoro's potential because of his face when facing death
Loguetown: Smoker is reminded of the PK when seeing Luffy's face when facing death. Luffy's luck is tested when a lightening bolt comes down with the sword only inches away from his neck. Zoro's luck is tested when he swing the sword up and it just goes around his arm instead of cutting it off clean. Just coincidence guys!!!!!
Post-Arlong: Wait a minute, the guy who luffy said he's surpass in chapter 1 & the guy who Zoro said he's surpass in Baratie... were rivals?
Whiskey Peak: Both Tie
Water 7: Both get put into similar situations that gain similar reactions with the wall stuck & chimney
Ennis Lobby: Zoro being mistakened as the Captain
Ennis Lobby fights: Zoro beats Lucci's inferior Kaku in a mid-diff fight. Luffy vs Lucci goes to a point where Luffy doesn't even win without Franky's interference at the start, and even then went to the point Luffy can't stand up. That shits on the entire "doriki" point of view.
Thriller Bark: Zoro gets his willpower tested by Kuma (Dragon's underling) with enduring all of Luffy's pain, where he's got only a tiny chance of making it out alive.
Saboady: Oh dang Zoro was going to cut up a Celestial Dragon if Bonney didn't step in. Oh dang Luffy punched a Celestial Dragon because nobody came to stop him like Bonney. Pure coincidence. Oh my Zoro isn't treated as your typical right hand man like Killer & Bepo, but instead it's Sanji.
Impel Down: Luffy gets his willpower tested where he's only got a very small chance in making it out alive by another one of Dragon's subordinates, Ivankov.
Timeskip: Whoa both of their training involves directly with learning of Haki. Where they're fighting superior opponent(s) while doing it.
FMI: Whoa Luffy faced off against Zoro's final opponent, and Zoro faced off against Luffy's final opponent before the final fights?
Post-FMI: Is that Zoro challenging Luffy to a competition?
Dressrosa: Is that Zoro saying Luffy should've told him about the tournament, where he would've had to compete against Luffy? Is that Luffy & Zoro who go up against the admiral in the arc at different moments of time?
Start of Wano: Oh Luffy & Zoro having side by side speed moment, sick. Both get their "duo time" before pairing up with the entire squad again.
Wano end of Act 2: Oh wow do my eyes deceive me, it's Zoro & Luffy training near each other related to Haki mastery.. where if they master it, they'd be able to damage Kaido. NO! It certainly can't be!!!
Rooftop of Wano Act 3: Luffy & Zoro doing teamwork in their rooftop fight. Zoro landing the biggest blow on Kaido in that 5 vs 2?! Zoro taking on the biggest attack from the emperors in that 5 vs 2?! It certainly can't be!
Post-Rooftop of Wano act 3: Zoro faces an opponent who's even harder to damage than Kaido?! And despite his condition he manages to cut him up after he gains the power to do it?! Wait a minute, I wonder what would've happened if Zoro got the "reset" against Kaido like Luffy did multiple times, where now he's able to 1 shot somebody who has much more harder to damage than Kaido, when the only reason he struggled against Kaido was because he couldn't damage him properly. I wonder what would happen now.
End of Wano act 3: IT CAN'T BE!!.. Zoro & Luffy are out together side by side for the same amount of time?! Oh no this doesn't mean anything at all.
You can't talk about narrative and powerscaler non-sense, and then make a claim like Luffy >>>> Zoro, which goes against the very narrative Oda has continued to establish since start of the series. That The Pirate King & The Master Swordsman will always be near each other.
Portrayal / narrative is the last thing you want to use if you want to claim Luffy >>> Zoro, stick to "feats only" for that.
Why can't Kidd be more narratively important for the climax here and simply have more narrative impact as well as role to play without being stronger than Zoro?
It seems like a lot of people who use same argument as yours try to say how "Power scalers" look too much into feats and whatnot trying to make everything about scaling, etc, but aren't you doing the same?
You're looking at a hierarchy and you're dumbing it down to "Oda did this to show us who is stronger" all while ignoring other aspects such as those three being the captains and main three leaders of new era, bringing down the former two biggest Yonkos, ushering in the next generation, taking theirs to the big stage now, etc, etc.
Those who take things deep can be bad, but those who take everything presented as surface level to "THIS IS POWER WHICH ODA DREW TO SHOW STRONK, YES IT'S TRUE!" aren't doing any better either lol
It seems like a lot of people who use same argument as yours try to say how "Power scalers" look too much into feats and whatnot trying to make everything about scaling, etc, but aren't you doing the same?
You're looking at a hierarchy and you're dumbing it down to "Oda did this to show us who is stronger" all while ignoring other aspects such as those three being the captains and main three leaders of new era, bringing down the former two biggest Yonkos, ushering in the next generation, taking theirs to the big stage now, etc, etc.
Those who take things deep can be bad, but those who take everything presented as surface level to "THIS IS POWER WHICH ODA DREW TO SHOW STRONK, YES IT'S TRUE!" aren't doing any better either lol
Their narrative purpose as you said, their role already puts them above of Zoro.
Saying not, it's like saying that Rayleigh was above Shiki or Whitebeard.
Again, why are you dumbing down the entire narrative to strength and power? Their narrative roles might be higher, their impact on this respective arc might be higher, but that has nothing to do with pure strength or standing. Zoro is the only one among the three who has confirmed peak above a Yonko with huge portrayal in his favor.
And Kidd/Law are definitely not Luffy's WB, either.
For instance, Smoker's narrative role was higher than Zoro during PH, yet no way in fuck anyone can say PH Smoker was stronger than Zoro.
On another, related note, no matter how much we nitpick fighting style or whatever constitutes a swordsman fight, Law being officially known as swordsman is a fact. Law considering himself one is likely, too, otherwise he wouldn't be dubbed as such by Oda. And to think that Zoro will be weak enough to be defeated by another individual who calls themselves a swordsman come EoS is absurd to begin with.
At the end of the day, even with all that aside, you're just taking your interpretation of their narrative importance and role and turning it purely into strength. Neither Kidd nor Law need to be stronger than Zoro to fulfill the role given to them.
On another note, same goes for opponent arguments. Just because opponents have big gaps, doesn't mean characters will, too. EL Lucci and Kaku had big gaps. After EL, Yellow DB still put Zoro as someone comparable to Luffy. And this is the only book that has Oda's direct backing and personal writing confirmed as per SBS.
And Kidd/Law are definitely not Luffy's WB, either.
For instance, Smoker's narrative role was higher than Zoro during PH, yet no way in fuck anyone can say PH Smoker was stronger than Zoro.
On another, related note, no matter how much we nitpick fighting style or whatever constitutes a swordsman fight, Law being officially known as swordsman is a fact. Law considering himself one is likely, too, otherwise he wouldn't be dubbed as such by Oda. And to think that Zoro will be weak enough to be defeated by another individual who calls themselves a swordsman come EoS is absurd to begin with.
At the end of the day, even with all that aside, you're just taking your interpretation of their narrative importance and role and turning it purely into strength. Neither Kidd nor Law need to be stronger than Zoro to fulfill the role given to them.
On another note, same goes for opponent arguments. Just because opponents have big gaps, doesn't mean characters will, too. EL Lucci and Kaku had big gaps. After EL, Yellow DB still put Zoro as someone comparable to Luffy. And this is the only book that has Oda's direct backing and personal writing confirmed as per SBS.
