Controversial Powerscalers don't understand One Piece
- Thread starter Sakura no Hiluluk
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And none of that is the source of their respective strength.
They are not stronger than the other because they have such abilities.
They have those abilities because Oda wanted them to be like that. It's what I'm saying. You focus on the tools Oda gave his characters, their perks, and not the story he wanted to tell.
Even if he removed all devil fruits, haki and all, it would still be Luffy > Zoro > Sanji. Simple as that.
And this hierarchy matters not because one is stronger than the others but because it determines what Oda will or won't write in his story. He won't have Zoro defeating the top villain, no matter what else he'll write which may suggest otherwise. He won't have Sanji turning into a woman-hitting thug. He won't have Usopp sudddenly being able to bravely stand before a dangerous foe and act all cocky.
Yes Oda has limitations on what he can write because he is very formulaic as a writer. He will not hesitate to try some shuffling around (the whole Luffy alone arc is a prime example), but he'll generally cling to certain stuff he doesn't want to change, no matter what, when the full crew is gathered in the same place. But it isn't necessarily a flaw. We saw with various work of fictions (GoT, Star Wars VIII) that surprising and shocking the spectator for the sake of it makes for poor storytelling.
They are not stronger than the other because they have such abilities.
They have those abilities because Oda wanted them to be like that. It's what I'm saying. You focus on the tools Oda gave his characters, their perks, and not the story he wanted to tell.
Even if he removed all devil fruits, haki and all, it would still be Luffy > Zoro > Sanji. Simple as that.
And this hierarchy matters not because one is stronger than the others but because it determines what Oda will or won't write in his story. He won't have Zoro defeating the top villain, no matter what else he'll write which may suggest otherwise. He won't have Sanji turning into a woman-hitting thug. He won't have Usopp sudddenly being able to bravely stand before a dangerous foe and act all cocky.
Yes Oda has limitations on what he can write because he is very formulaic as a writer. He will not hesitate to try some shuffling around (the whole Luffy alone arc is a prime example), but he'll generally cling to certain stuff he doesn't want to change, no matter what, when the full crew is gathered in the same place. But it isn't necessarily a flaw. We saw with various work of fictions (GoT, Star Wars VIII) that surprising and shocking the spectator for the sake of it makes for poor storytelling.
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U need to understand something about writing a Story, the author can't always directly state A >> B and >= C
It will feel repetitive over time and sometimes forced, so the Author relies on different things to tell the same message
In Baratie, Gin one shot Pearl and then Gin stated no one can defeat Krieg
In Arlong Park, Arlong defeated Zoro and Sanji after they overwhelmed Hatchan and Kuroobi
In Arabasta, Officers are Ranked by Numeric System
In Skypiea, Priests are Ranked by chances of surviving their Trials
CP9 are Ranked by Doriki
And so on ... etc
So don't think much about it, Doriki is not important in the grand scheme of the story or world, it was just added in that Arc to help powerscalers judge and understand the fights and how difficult they were
As for that pattern of Zoro vs Serious No.2 and Sanji vs Goofy No. 3 only happened thrice in almost 1100 Chapters, so stop thinking too much into it
Actually Mr. 2 is lower rank than Miss Doublefinger and his Fight was followed by Nami Fight and then Zoro's
So in reality, that pattern only applied to Enies Lobby and Wano
It will feel repetitive over time and sometimes forced, so the Author relies on different things to tell the same message
In Baratie, Gin one shot Pearl and then Gin stated no one can defeat Krieg
In Arlong Park, Arlong defeated Zoro and Sanji after they overwhelmed Hatchan and Kuroobi
In Arabasta, Officers are Ranked by Numeric System
In Skypiea, Priests are Ranked by chances of surviving their Trials
CP9 are Ranked by Doriki
And so on ... etc
So don't think much about it, Doriki is not important in the grand scheme of the story or world, it was just added in that Arc to help powerscalers judge and understand the fights and how difficult they were
As for that pattern of Zoro vs Serious No.2 and Sanji vs Goofy No. 3 only happened thrice in almost 1100 Chapters, so stop thinking too much into it
Actually Mr. 2 is lower rank than Miss Doublefinger and his Fight was followed by Nami Fight and then Zoro's
So in reality, that pattern only applied to Enies Lobby and Wano
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Using EL is just inaccurate. The doraki ranking wasn't to rank the M3. Luffy had the hardest time and only won because lucci didn't finish him. Zoro had the second hardest time and flat out was better than kaku. Sanji had the easiest time and started in the worst condition of anyone. This is not supposed to represent the sh's as if it was all would have struggled the same amount showing that was the levels they were at.
EL still gets talked about because it's fits certain people's agenda the only time the M3 structure was Luffy > Zoro >= Sanji. That's not there usual structure as for the majority of the manga it was Luffy >= Zoro > Sanji but 1 arc years ago is enough for people to ignore this because it fits thier bias. Right now it's closer to the standard than the EL showing. The thing that makes the sh's special is Luffy for the majority of a large part of the manga had 2 people under him at his level. No other crew bar maybe Roger's has that dynamic.
Just for you to see this most have Sanji taking a admiral as his final fight placing him squarely in the yonko/admiral level. Eos Sanji Zoro and Luffy will all be top tiers so if can't be Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji as it's just not possible that's how we are supposed to see the sh's.
EL still gets talked about because it's fits certain people's agenda the only time the M3 structure was Luffy > Zoro >= Sanji. That's not there usual structure as for the majority of the manga it was Luffy >= Zoro > Sanji but 1 arc years ago is enough for people to ignore this because it fits thier bias. Right now it's closer to the standard than the EL showing. The thing that makes the sh's special is Luffy for the majority of a large part of the manga had 2 people under him at his level. No other crew bar maybe Roger's has that dynamic.
Just for you to see this most have Sanji taking a admiral as his final fight placing him squarely in the yonko/admiral level. Eos Sanji Zoro and Luffy will all be top tiers so if can't be Luffy >>> Zoro >= Sanji as it's just not possible that's how we are supposed to see the sh's.
You're literally power scaling in the OP. You're using your interpretation of the Dokuri system ro push your subjective power scaling. Jabra himself said that Dokuri only measures physical strength in their base forms. You also failed to consider all the circumstances and shenanigans that went into those fights.
The Dokuri system was to establish the CP9 hierarchy and doesn't reflect the strength difference between the SHs.
The Dokuri system was to establish the CP9 hierarchy and doesn't reflect the strength difference between the SHs.
I don't know what sort of connections you have with Oda to know what exactly he's trying to convey that the rest of us can't see but what I do know is that if Jyabra's words are irrelevant, the writer won't bother writing them, in the first place. Sure, it's a no-brainer that the gap b/w Kaku and Jabra is smaller than that between Kaku and Lucci if that's the idea you're trying to sell us as "Oda's intention with Doriki." I mean, it does give us an idea of where they stand but it was barely an accurate representation of the actual overall power level gap b/w them.
A lot of shit goes into determining how strong someone is than just base physical prowess and it is especially true for the devil's fruit users. You do seem to think the nature of their devil's fruits made a difference when you said being a carnivorous type makes Jabra more suited for battle. The manga doesn't say they're more suited for battle actually, it says they're more aggressive, just so we're clear. But I do agree with you saying they're better suited for battle.
However, Kaku's fruit too has certain qualities and we almost never take them into consideration while discussing the CP9. One of those qualities is that a giraffe is far stronger physically than a wolf or even a leopard for that matter. So the amount of boost Kaku gets from his fruit as far as physical prowess goes is higher than both Jabra as well as Lucci. It's definitely not enough to close the gap b/w Lucci and Kaku but it should be enough to create a significant gap b/w Kaku and Jabra.
A lot of shit goes into determining how strong someone is than just base physical prowess and it is especially true for the devil's fruit users. You do seem to think the nature of their devil's fruits made a difference when you said being a carnivorous type makes Jabra more suited for battle. The manga doesn't say they're more suited for battle actually, it says they're more aggressive, just so we're clear. But I do agree with you saying they're better suited for battle.
However, Kaku's fruit too has certain qualities and we almost never take them into consideration while discussing the CP9. One of those qualities is that a giraffe is far stronger physically than a wolf or even a leopard for that matter. So the amount of boost Kaku gets from his fruit as far as physical prowess goes is higher than both Jabra as well as Lucci. It's definitely not enough to close the gap b/w Lucci and Kaku but it should be enough to create a significant gap b/w Kaku and Jabra.
I did not say Doriki doesn't matter though. Obviously, the higher your Doriki is, the stronger you are physically. I am saying we can't just pick and choose what matters and what doesn't matter. There is a reason why it was specifically mentioned that the devil's fruits and perhaps the other talents peeps might have aren't included in Doriki.
That's just how YOU interpret it after extremely dumbing down the narrative and manga to fit your desired scaling and your favorites.
Oda explicitly made a character say Dorikis mean fuck all outside of strength? You ignore it.
Oda explicitly had Zoro and Sanji finish their fights much more easily and in far better condition than Luffy's by destroying their opponents after showing PUs? You ignore it and pretend Lucci >>> Kaku/Jyabura means the gap is even close to the same for Luffy vs Zoro or Sanji.
You're ignoring everything else Oda drew and dumbing down everything so it fits narrative you'd personally prefer.
You're creating your own narrative by cherry-picking.
And then you tell others that they don't understand One Piece.
Only real thing is Luffy > Zoro > Sanji, and that's how it always will be. Oda makes Luffy's opponents far stronger yet makes sure that Zoro and Sanji defeat their opponents far more easily, too.
Oda explicitly made a character say Dorikis mean fuck all outside of strength? You ignore it.
Oda explicitly had Zoro and Sanji finish their fights much more easily and in far better condition than Luffy's by destroying their opponents after showing PUs? You ignore it and pretend Lucci >>> Kaku/Jyabura means the gap is even close to the same for Luffy vs Zoro or Sanji.
You're ignoring everything else Oda drew and dumbing down everything so it fits narrative you'd personally prefer.
You're creating your own narrative by cherry-picking.
And then you tell others that they don't understand One Piece.
Only real thing is Luffy > Zoro > Sanji, and that's how it always will be. Oda makes Luffy's opponents far stronger yet makes sure that Zoro and Sanji defeat their opponents far more easily, too.