General & Others Zoro scarring Kaido is a parallel to Arlong Park; why Zoro’s feats have to be viewed symbolically

[Garp the Fist]

That’s Arlong before he knows the extent of Zoro’s wounds.

It’s only after that he actually sees how injured Zoro is, at which point he shits himself and decides to kill him immediately.

Luffy at this point is pretty much fresh as can be while Zoro was suffering some of his most serious wounds, the fact that Luffy can beat Arlong in that condition and Zoro can’t really doesn’t say much.

The “can’t even knock you off your feet” is taken wildly out of proportion. It’s Zoro being hard on himself. Kaido himself is actually impressed by it. Note that Kaido is knocked off his feet countless times throughout the arc but does not give a shit. Take the Scabbards knocking him to the ground with Togen Totsuka. Does Kaido care? No, instead he criticises them for not even being able to open his old scar.

In contrast, Zoro gives him a new scar and thus gets praised by it.

Yes, Luffy > Zoro, but this is not the way to prove it.

 

[Aknolagon]

Zoro scarring Kaido whether you wank it to
the heavens or not, that feat was never highlighted again, it being outshined by Luffy putting Kaido on his knees with advCoC

This is a direct parallel to Arlong Park.

(1) Arlong takes pride in the toughness of his nose. His nose is completely unfazed by Zoro’s blow.

(2) Arlong then tells him that “perhaps” had he been in better health he “might have” left a “little” scar

The takeaway, what Arlong is strictly saying is, Zoro might not even leave a little scar even if he were in perfect health.

When Luffy bends the nose with his brute strength, this signifies Zoro being eclipsed by Luffy.

Luffy had his moment where he said he depended on his crewmates to make up for his shortcomings, but what he ultimately can do that they can’t is “beat” Arlong.

Zoro ultimately serves to “protect” Luffy against Arlong, later against Kaido. However it is only Luffy that can defeat Arlong, and it’s only Luffy that can defeat Kaido.

The parallel between these two seems pretty obvious, such that it appears Oda gave Zoro this moment, where he left “a little scar” when he was not in perfect health as a vindicative moment for Zoro, as a way to put his Arlong-moment behind him narratively and from a legacy standpoint.

Why if the scar were so impactful is it never brought up or highlighted again? Instead the focus and highlight was shifted to Luffy achieving what Zoro couldn’t. Same as in Arlong Park

It appears that Oda with this event redresses how he felt that Zoro got a bad portrayal in Arlong Park, so he gives Zoro to a consolation prize of sorts to make up for this event that weighs heavy on Oda’s mind, in a symbolic way bury this event by showing a growth on Zoro’s part.

The thing that gave it away was Luffy surpassing Zoro shortly after just by coating his punches in advCoC, the same thing Kaido hinted at Zoro using in his attack. Luffy eclipses Zoro at what he tried doing, just like in Arlong Park

The takeaway is the “scarring-incident” was more symbolic and served as a narrative progression rather than as a separate power-level event (maybe not for Zoro-fans but for Oda who is the author). It’s not a separate event because the parallel to Arlong Park is so striking. This justifies a reading where Oda wrote it more symbolically rather than making a bold power level statement.

You might think “broken-bones” Zoro is the end-all-be-all for scarring Kaido, only for Zoro to get fully recuperated to 100% health and return down to the ground floor where he got turned into a metall ball being flipped around in a pinball game by King (even Marco handled King and Queen without suffering such a loss of face). This means you and Oda are reading and seeing the story very differently. You can’t look at that event and say it bears a 100% correlation with his rooftop performance, from a strength standpoint, that is ridiculous.

What I want to say is, I don’t think Oda is out to write Zoro with powerlevel in mind as much as people think. The powerlevel stuff is there (scarring Kaido, cutting a flaming dragon) but then when you look at it, these feats are riddled with subtexts and symbolism that you almost have to view it more metaphorically than from a pure powerlevel vantage point. I guess that’s my gripe with how Oda writes Zoro. But maybe that’s just me.

May have to edit later.

@ZenZu @Monkey D Theories @nik87 @Sasaki Kojirō @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Fleet Leader Fenaker @Erkan12 @Celestial D. Dragon @Zolo @Topi Jerami @Chrono @Psychiatrist etc

Zoro faced one of the top 5 of the world at the very beginning of the manga and with those wounds he went to face Arlong a complete fodder. But hey look at luffy who defeated arlong at 100%, amazing ...

Yeah same as Rooftop where Zoro faced Kaido after Hakai but hey this time he made a permanent scar being wounded.

Looks like to me that Oda nerfs Zoro as fuck to make him avoid taking the big W.

 

[FriedLiver]

That’s Arlong before he knows the extent of Zoro’s wounds.

It’s only after that he actually sees how injured Zoro is, at which point he shits himself and decides to kill him immediately.

Luffy at this point is pretty much fresh as can be while Zoro was suffering some of his most serious wounds, the fact that Luffy can beat Arlong in that condition and Zoro can’t really doesn’t say much.

The “can’t even knock you off your feet” is taken wildly out of proportion. It’s Zoro being hard on himself. Kaido himself is actually impressed by it. Note that Kaido is knocked off his feet countless times throughout the arc but does not give a shit. Take the Scabbards knocking him to the ground with Togen Totsuka. Does Kaido care? No, instead he criticises them for not even being able to open his old scar.

In contrast, Zoro gives him a new scar and thus gets praised by it.

Yes, Luffy > Zoro, but this is not the way to prove it.

Ok so you want to play the game where you pretend to find someone context that erases the significance of that quote, to say it doesn’t matter anymore lol

Arlong highlights the strength in his determination as the reason for killing him, because the emphasis is in “the glare”, which signifies the willpower. Not that he undervalued his wounds, he recognises the wounds weakened him, only he is amazed at his determination to keep pushing through the injuries through sheer willpower alone

So you’re just trying to find any excuse to discredit the quote, which is not even from Arlong, it’s coming directly from Oda lol

 

[Herrera95]

Weak bait.

 

[FriedLiver]

Weak bait.

No, no, no

The only one who is consistently baiting here is Oda, ie baiting Zoro fans by constantly switching between giving him symbolic feats only to turn around and give him massive anti-feats like being turned into a ball in a pinball game against King; Yamato knocking down Drake to the ground lol; being in a stalemate against Apoo, even the CP0 guy did perhaps even more damage to Apoo than Zoro did.

Zoro gets these massive anti-feats that make Sanji look massively stronger in comparison, only to have these moments where he shines with good feats

That’s the bait

 

[Herrera95]

No, no, no

The only one who is consistently baiting here is Oda, ie baiting Zoro fans by constantly switching between giving him symbolic feats only to turn around and give him massive anti-feats like being turned into a ball in a pinball game against King; Yamato knocking down Drake to the ground lol; being in a stalemate against Apoo, even the CP0 guy did perhaps even more damage to Apoo than Zoro did.

Zoro gets these massive anti-feats that make Sanji look massively stronger in comparison, only to have these moments where he shines with good feats

That’s the bait

First of all Oda is baiting the community as a whole with garbage plot, development and delivery.

Second, the only anti feats of Zoro would be needing a magic pill and not having Kaiod on his knees. Magic pill was just an excuse to have a strong drawback and Zoro couldn't fight after King fight. While not bringing Kaido on his knee is pure poor writing of Oda since his scar means much more than simply knocking down Kaido as a bunch of fodders did before it.

Third, Zoro didn't stalemated with Apoo and Apoo is a beast that two shotted Luffy. Zoro made Apoo out of a moment while CP0 failed to do that.

Forth, anything related to Zoro didn't mean shit about Sanji. Sanji will only shiny and feel strong by himself. Doesn't matter if Zoro has feats or not. And Sanji only felt strong with his IJ. But still not even close to what Zoro did with King.

 

[Bisoromi Bear]

Zoro scarring Kaido whether you wank it to
the heavens or not, that feat was never highlighted again, it being outshined by Luffy putting Kaido on his knees with advCoC

This is a direct parallel to Arlong Park.

(1) Arlong takes pride in the toughness of his nose. His nose is completely unfazed by Zoro’s blow.

(2) Arlong then tells him that “perhaps” had he been in better health he “might have” left a “little” scar

The takeaway, what Arlong is strictly saying is, Zoro might not even leave a little scar even if he were in perfect health.

When Luffy bends the nose with his brute strength, this signifies Zoro being eclipsed by Luffy.

Luffy had his moment where he said he depended on his crewmates to make up for his shortcomings, but what he ultimately can do that they can’t is “beat” Arlong.

Zoro ultimately serves to “protect” Luffy against Arlong, later against Kaido. However it is only Luffy that can defeat Arlong, and it’s only Luffy that can defeat Kaido.

The parallel between these two seems pretty obvious, such that it appears Oda gave Zoro this moment, where he left “a little scar” when he was not in perfect health as a vindicative moment for Zoro, as a way to put his Arlong-moment behind him narratively and from a legacy standpoint.

Why if the scar were so impactful is it never brought up or highlighted again? Instead the focus and highlight was shifted to Luffy achieving what Zoro couldn’t. Same as in Arlong Park

It appears that Oda with this event redresses how he felt that Zoro got a bad portrayal in Arlong Park, so he gives Zoro to a consolation prize of sorts to make up for this event that weighs heavy on Oda’s mind, in a symbolic way bury this event by showing a growth on Zoro’s part.

The thing that gave it away was Luffy surpassing Zoro shortly after just by coating his punches in advCoC, the same thing Kaido hinted at Zoro using in his attack. Luffy eclipses Zoro at what he tried doing, just like in Arlong Park

The takeaway is the “scarring-incident” was more symbolic and served as a narrative progression rather than as a separate power-level event (maybe not for Zoro-fans but for Oda who is the author). It’s not a separate event because the parallel to Arlong Park is so striking. This justifies a reading where Oda wrote it more symbolically rather than making a bold power level statement.

You might think “broken-bones” Zoro is the end-all-be-all for scarring Kaido, only for Zoro to get fully recuperated to 100% health and return down to the ground floor where he got turned into a metall ball being flipped around in a pinball game by King (even Marco handled King and Queen without suffering such a loss of face). This means you and Oda are reading and seeing the story very differently. You can’t look at that event and say it bears a 100% correlation with his rooftop performance, from a strength standpoint, that is ridiculous.

What I want to say is, I don’t think Oda is out to write Zoro with powerlevel in mind as much as people think. The powerlevel stuff is there (scarring Kaido, cutting a flaming dragon) but then when you look at it, these feats are riddled with subtexts and symbolism that you almost have to view it more metaphorically than from a pure powerlevel vantage point. I guess that’s my gripe with how Oda writes Zoro. But maybe that’s just me.

May have to edit later.

@ZenZu @Monkey D Theories @nik87 @Sasaki Kojirō @Fleet Admiral Lee Hung @Fleet Leader Fenaker @Erkan12 @Celestial D. Dragon @Zolo @Topi Jerami @Chrono @Psychiatrist etc

Oda doesn't care about Zoro's character or his fans anymore, deal with it.
Oda can't write his own manga because he has no interest in his fans.

 

[Garp the Fist]

Ok so you want to play the game where you pretend to find someone context that erases the significance of that quote, to say it doesn’t matter anymore lol

Pretend to find some context? It’s like two pages after the panel you posted. It’s very relevant to the discussion that at the time Zoro failed to shatter Arlong’s nose he was a walking corpse.

Arlong highlights the strength in his determination as the reason for killing him, because the emphasis is in “the glare”, which signifies the willpower. Not that he undervalued his wounds, he recognises the wounds weakened him, only he is amazed at his determination to keep pushing through the injuries through sheer willpower alone

He very clear did undervalue Zoro’s wounds though.

Arlong is mocking his injuries up until he actually sees them.
“oh, maybe if you were in better health you could give me a little scar”
”why do you have these bandages, fell down some stairs?”

Then he actually sees the extent of Zoro’s wounds and he starts stammering and wonders how the hell Zoro can not only stand, but live.

It’s the major factor with Zoro’s fight with Arlong and you’re trying to skip over it.

 

[Chrono]

Good bait but Luffy and Sanji fans already agreed that Zoro is stronger than Luffy on rooftop.

I dont

 

[HA001]

I dont

You're not a sanji fan. You lost that in wci.

 

[SakazOuki]

Why can't Zori & Goofy bros be friends like their characters

Spoiler

 

[mly90]

Why can't Zori & Goofy bros be friends like their characters

Spoiler

 

[[No Name]]

Grest thread that debunks the idea of Zoro = Luffy even in the early manga. :cheers:

 

[comrade]

Broken skeleton Zoro with crude and clumsy CoC leaving a scar on Kaido. Healthy King of Hell >>> Rooftop Ashura

 

[Lor D. Coast]

I only read the title, so Luffy can only do better when Zoro has his chest open or all of his bones broken? Oda needs to stop protecting Luffy so much, Zoro only needs one hit to end fights.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Not saying Zoro scarring Kaido is not impressive but healthy Zoro with Adv CoC won't push Kaido much further than he did with Asura imo.

 

[nik87]

Not saying Zoro scarring Kaido is not impressive but healthy Zoro with Adv CoC won't push Kaido much further than he did with Asura imo.

Right, aCoC does wonders only for Luffy and nobody else, especially not for Zoro.

 

[Warchief Sanji D Goat]

Right, aCoC does wonders only for Luffy and nobody else, especially not for Zoro.

I'm gonna be generous and say that Zoro with Adv CoC can push Kaido to drunken mode. Other than that, be my guest.

 

[Franosuke]

1.5 years later and roofpiece still haunts mf's.

Man legit wrote an essay on how Zoro's feats are figurative

 

[HA001]

Not saying Zoro scarring Kaido is not impressive but healthy Zoro with Adv CoC won't push Kaido much further than he did with Asura imo.

So acoc makes luffy go from neg diff to fight kaido toe to toe

But it makes no change for zoro

Makes sense