[FNZ] Role Madness Round 08: Tokyo Ghoul

[Dragomir]

no fam got no clue about the flavour, I am back tracking a 20 players game...I am not used to it anymore, so I will just lurk and backtrack for now

You talked about carrying town, but now you want to do nothing. Why is that Rej?

 

[Celestia]

I am gonna look into most players and post my thoughts about them

Forget about our whole interaction ok? I think you look fine.

 

[Reborn]

I explained already what make it forced you seems like u ignoring my posts and just wanna focus on the word forced
It was weak and forced to me cuz he kept on being aggressive on him for something small and then when tac responds he is like I was joking but u now seems sus
Seemed like whatever TAC gonna reply he had set his mind on him being scum

Also wth drago I am not native why you still going on about how they are antonyms I already said what I mean yet you still go back to this
Cinera and Yon Tan Wa said the same word why you ain't making a big thing of it
What are you trying to achieve ? Cuz it don't look good at all this approach

Bogard is either a excited town who is overdoing it or a flop scum who thought it was a good case and went with being aggressive
He didn't post much out of that I can't say which I am more leaning on yet


I didn't put Bogard as scum yet
But you know in a long phase 48 what is said early actually might not be more memorable from my experience things gets heated when it is closer to day end and anything will get more attention and might cost in a lynch toward the end

Like I said before I don't like why Bogard is pushing TAC it seems so trivial

Bogard could either be town/scum maybe after last game he thought that TAC might be easy mislynch and went for that or he thought genuinely he caught him slipping

Still the case and narrative is bad
Tac on the other hand I didn't see anything bad about what he said this game I am more leaning towards him being town, I understands where his frustrations is coming from

scum would more likely ignore the accusations and won't bother with arguing this much
But there could also be possibility about him not being town but for now I am more convinced by his reactions
from what I heard he got lynched day 1 last game cuz of unnecessary arguments? if he is also a town in this game then he ofc will be mad about same thing happening to him it seems more genuine he mentioned it
U saying it is scummy move don't have much logic in it, why you think that ?
I didn't say he was scum.

Already explained that

First of all I didn't brand you as scum. I will put you in neutral with leaning towards being scum.

Reasons

1) you did make a slip. Was it deliberate or genuine will find out eventually.

This is Noctis First post


He clearly mentioned that day phase would last 48 hours. But it was Long post and I can assume that you might overlooked it.

But look below. this is Noctis second post and he highlighted that day one would be 48 hours. I doubt this can be overlooked because noctis also tagged all of us in this post.


Now this is NW post which you quoted.


Both posts of Noctis and NW post was made on first page itself.

If you had any confusion you could have simply scroll up to cross check but you argued this


How come asking NW is much more easier than simply scrolling up and looking at Noctis two post one of which has highlighted in bold about day phase length?

Now let's assume that you were simply wanted to clarify things.

But then you Said this...


How come you forgot what you read on Noctis post made on first page before quoting NW post which was also made on first page? I mean you claim that you don't remember info about 48 hours day phase but you were still going through first page while you claimed so.

Also, NW Post didn't mention anything regarding 48 hours night....

No matter how you see that tac but Bogard seeing that as acting dumb is reasonable from my point of view.


Now let's move on to second reason

2) you lost your calm and composure when Bogard repeatedly tried to put you under pressure. Yes, I can understand that you could be frustrated as something similar happened to you last game but that you do know losing calm is never a good sign.


3) you brought last game activity as defense. I already said I am not fan of such act.

Give me your reads on game so far?

Why you Bogard could be sus based on his tac push for The Lynch? Do you really think a scum would highlight himself so early on 48hours day phase ?

 

[Dragomir]

Give me your reads on game so far?

I am gonna look into most players and post my thoughts about them

Why you Bogard could be sus based on his tac push for The Lynch? Do you really think a scum would highlight himself so early on 48hours day phase ?

Allow me to answer for her. She never said that Bogard was scum but that his read was forced and weak. Even more, she said that Bogard scum or town wasn't the point.

 

[Reborn]

Weird that you are asking me this in that I explained my vision over their situation long in the thread before going to sleep.

Are you forcing for reads?

Either way it's

TAC = Lining town
Bogard = Lining scum

TAC's behaviour is pretty similar to the one he observed in the previous game, however it is still weird that he missed such a visible part, whilst Bogard instead isn't making sense by pushing the slip argument, since it's straight up illogical. So that renders him suspicious.

So Pushing lynch on tac based on such not so concrete argument is illogical (I agree with this)but cleaning tac townie based on how similar thing happened in previous game isn't illogical for you?

 

[Finalbeta]

I would like to hear more from @Don DaSlayer I recall that he wasn't so quiet from his previous game meta

Would like to know what he thinks about the game thus far

 

[Reborn]

Allow me to answer for her. She never said that Bogard was scum but that his read was forced and weak. Even more, she said that Bogard scum or town wasn't the point.

Are you Celestia? Don't answer on someone else behalf

 

[Finalbeta]

So Pushing lynch on tac based on such not so concrete argument is illogical (I agree with this)but cleaning tac townie based on how similar thing happened in previous game isn't illogical for you?

Where did I clean TAC?

I said he is lining Town based off meta from previous game, which is entirely different from cleaning him.

Moreover you are failing to see Bogard's offence's fallacy which is suspicious.

 

[Reborn]

Where did I clean TAC?

I said he is lining Town based off meta from previous game, which is entirely different from cleaning him.

Moreover you are failing to see Bogard's offence's fallacy which is suspicious.

You are also failing to see that a scum pushing someone's lynch right at the beginning of 48 hours day phase is very risky work and doesn't seem like scum strategy...

But it's interesting that you are overlooking ite

 

[Don DaSlayer]

@Queen I still don’t trust you from the last game you fooled me

I would like to hear more from @Don DaSlayer I recall that he wasn't so quiet from his previous game meta

Would like to know what he thinks about the game thus far

I’ve been quite bc i have to read the last 8 pages.

 

[Dragomir]

I thought about this as well, but I ultimately discarded it. My main reasons:

• The main purpose of such a strategy would be bussing, and bussing right off the bat is pretty risky. Also, I personally wouldn't consider TAC (or Bogard) confirmed if the other flipped Scum, and would work to caution Town against it, so it's pretty risky.
• TAC's frustration felt genuine. If he was faking that, well he's a lot better actor than I give him credit for. It seems more likely that TAC is a Town frustrated for being suspected for an innocuous question or even a Scum frustrated at being caught over something that shouldn't have pinged anyone than that he invented his frustration wholesale.

I read this as: "what happened to being into Celestia and Cinera?".

This post is the main crux for why I'm town reading Cinera at this very moment. The fact that he was willing to explain his own thought process behind why discarded the thought of Bo vs TAC being WvW is screaming town to me. He was never asked to do this. He went out of his own way to provide this explanation for us to understand. He's keeping his thoughts open and loose instead of trying to be reserved with them and be inconspicuous. He had a disagreement and was willing to share it and went out of his way to do so. This is a very townie thing to do. It's giving me a good vibe from Cinera.

dragomir and reborn's exchange is another one to look out for.

Watchu got?

Moreover you are failing to see Bogard's offence's fallacy which is suspicious.

How does someone not being able to see something the way you did suspicious?

 

[Finalbeta]

You are also failing to see that a scum pushing someone's lynch right at the beginning of 48 hours day phase is very risky work and doesn't seem like scum strategy...

But it's interesting that you are overlooking ite

LANJI did the same last game and yet nothing happened to him so as you see it's not risky strategy for a scum to push the same narrative.

 

[Celestia]

Already explained that




Give me your reads on game so far?

Why you Bogard could be sus based on his tac push for The Lynch? Do you really think a scum would highlight himself so early on 48hours day phase ?

I saw that long post by you but still
losing composure ain't a scum thing to do only a lot of players town or scum rage quit or become annoyed
and to me Bogard pressure ain't even built on good reasons their back and forth is about something tiny and not related to the game much


If he was scum then yea posting early in a long phase isn't as much important as if he pulled this later when things gets heated and I said this already in my post ..

I will do my reads soon, I just woke up

Wbu ? What your reads so far ?

 

[Reborn]

LANJI did the same last game and yet nothing happened to him so as you see it's not risky strategy for a scum to push the same narrative.

You are comparing apple and oranges.

Lanji put vote on tac during last 20 mins of day one


Bogard pushed tac case hard right from the beginning of day one which is 48 hours long.

So in what Sense you find these two acts comparable?

 

[Dragomir]

Don is a very tricky read. I don't like how he has played so far. Giving a lockdown scum read on those who are inactive for no reason and completely teetering around Bogard vs TAC. He's been throwing it out the window because it was similar to what happened in the AoT game. He's not trying to look into and has completely disregarded it which I'm finding to be pretty lame. However, it's this bizarreness in his play that is holding me back from scum reading him. It sounds a little too scummy to be wolf here and the meta matches the previous games he has played. Although I do hate how he has disregarded the Bogard and TAC interaction, I understand the reason why. Bad shit happened D1 in the AoT game similar to what's happening with Bo vs TAC. In order to not repeat the same mistake, he's disregarding the whole thing and trying to get away from it. Deadass, that progression actually got me leaning town.

 

[Dragomir]

I've decided to reread this entire game before I sleep and try to see if I can come up with any new thoughts.


These two posts from TAC are reinforcing my TvT read. @Queen you told me that TAC faked his frustration in the last game you played scum with him. While that may have been true, he was a jester in that game. He had to fake everything to look as suspicious as he can. We have no jesters in this game(highly doubt it, if there were any, Noctis would have mentioned it). Mafia has no need to fake frustration. They don't need to fake anything besides productivity so it's likely that TAC is actually genuinely frustrated for either alignment. He can be a frustrated townie cause he's being suspected for poor reasoning, or he can be a frustrated mafia for the same thing. I have been both, we will all be both one day.

I want you to read these two posts and really tell me if he's faking his frustration here. His reasons for being frustrated are legit. Bogard is attacking him for a really small thing that isn't alignment indicative at all. Bogard is tunneling him on a weak premise. With these things in mind, it makes sense for him to be frustrated. That "Jesus fucking Christ" in the 2nd post really speaks to his genuineness even more. It's a reaction that I would definitely be having in his case.

Now, again for Bogard. He really thinks he caught TAC in a slip. His progression with his read is legit and he is not beating around the bush about it. He is coming across as a townie that thinks they're on the right path and thus continue walking that path. I'm having major troubles seeing a scenario where he is scum and doing all this.

One last thing Queen, I do appreciate your hot take on them both being SvS faking an interaction to distance, it's super unlikely. They are going at each other's throats hard. TAC was frustrated by the reasoning that Bogard was conjuring up. Bogard really thought he caught TAC in a slip. The possibility of these two guys bussing each other is out in the dumpster. Never would a mafia bus each other for no reason so early in D1. Bussing would only occur in later phases or at the end of a phase in order to gain town cred. For example, at EoD when there are two wagons and one buddy votes for his own buddy's wagon when they didn't have to. That would be done to make it look one they're(the guy bussing) is town because he did something so insane at EoD. Another scenario would be later in the game when the buddy is gathering heat but not too much for a wagon so one other buddy makes a hard push to get maximum town cred. Bogard vs TAC this phase is not at all any of these things. TAC was never going to be suspected for what Bogard called him out for. Bogard has zero to come at him. You only bus if it puts you in an advantageous position to win the game. Going after your buddy at the start of D1 doesn't do that. You make winning harder.

@Queen has this post changed your opinion on the Bogard vs TAC situation?

 

[Finalbeta]

You are comparing apple and oranges.

Lanji put vote on tac during last 20 mins of day one


Bogard pushed tac case hard right from the beginning of day one which is 48 hours long.

So in what Sense you find these two acts comparable?

You yourself have just said now that it's risky for Bogard to do that, just like you said in the previous game that LANJI doing that would have been risky had he been a scum.

So you are contradicting yourself here since the cases are similar (both risky) and time is not really a crucial factor in this circumstance and you are admitting it without even noticing.

It's about pushing TAC for trivial reasons.

Also LANJI didn't even start sus'ing him during the last 20 minutes, so you are misremembering here. He built a case earlier, despite not in the earliest of the phase.

 

[Dragomir]

@Reborn you have asked every single player in this game for their reads. What have their responses told you?

 

[Reborn]

You yourself have just said now that it's risky for Bogard to do that, just like you said in the previous game that LANJI doing that would have been risky had he been a scum.

So you are contradicting yourself here since the cases are similar (both risky) and time is not really a crucial factor in this circumstance and you are admitting it without even noticing.

It's about pushing TAC for trivial reasons.

Also LANJI didn't even start sus'ing him during the last 20 minutes, so you are misremembering here. He built a case earlier, despite not in the earliest of the phase.

Huh?

you are overlooking the fact that Lanji made a newbie mistake. And, not to mention that he dropped the hint of being vig as well.

But Bogard is experience player. Do you think if he is scum then someone as experience as him would highlight himself by pushing a twonie mislynch right at the beginning of 48 hours day phase? Why he would do that?

@Reborn you have asked every single player in this game for their reads. What have their responses told you?

@ Celestia Wait for sometime.... I will give my reads in few 2-3 hours

 

[Finalbeta]

Huh?

you are overlooking the fact that Lanji made a newbie mistake. And, not to mention that he dropped the hint of being vig as well.

But Bogard is experience player. Do you think if he is scum then someone as experience as him would highlight himself by pushing a twonie mislynch right at the beginning of 48 hours day phase? Why he would do that?

@ Celestia Wait for sometime.... I will give my reads in few 2-3 hours

You clearly don't know what WIFOM is bud. You gotta strenghten your knowledge over this game. The fact that what Bogard is doing does happen to be considered risky is exactly what makes it a feasible scum strategy.

I'm not the only player who believes Bogard to be lining scum for instance, even TAC himself does, who is also an experienced player like me.

Try to ask yourself why you believe that what Bogard is doing is risky and then you get your answer to your questions. And the answer is his case and LANJI's are only different in the shape, but not in the form.