Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced

[Finalbeta]

I hope we will see additional colors of haki until EoS

 

[Reborn]

You're welcome:cheers:

Your question is "Why there are levels in haki?" Or "What determine said level?"

My question what is the underlying process that is common across various levels of usage?

For example, take observation haki - usage varies from - sensing emotions, presence, predicting moves but underlying process that is common across them is sensing life force. FS builds on it.

So there has to be something common across CoA and CoC usage as well. What could be that?

 

[Rivaille]

My question what is the underlying process that is common across various levels of usage?

For example, take observation haki - usage varies from - sensing emotions, presence, predicting moves but underlying process that is common across them is sensing life force. FS builds on it.

So there has to be something common across CoA and CoC usage as well. What could be that?

Oh okay...i guess it is willpower but Oda did not expand on that yet.

 

[Reborn]

Oh okay...i guess it is willpower but Oda did not expand on that yet.

If answer was so simply then I wouldn't have asked. I guess it would be better that I would make CoO thread and modify this thread to explain what I meant

 

[Gintoki]

Advanced level CoA(penetration) is just a discount Gamma knife:ROFLMAO:

 

[OEKaneki]

This thread is really just a way to try and justify Zoro having some sort of advanced CoA when he doesn’t. He’s not using advanced CoA. He’s never used advanced CoA. Black blades are not advanced CoA, it’s literally just hardening. Expose a blade to hardening over a long period of time and or strong hardening and it becomes black. It’s not barrier CoA, nor is it the beyond advanced CoA Luffy knows now. It’s just hardening.

Also the attempts to try and say Zoro was using haki in Alabasta are ridiculous. It’s just a way to try and use a retcon to prop Zoro up.

Zoro doesn’t have advanced CoA, and Ryou isn’t anything more than just haki in general.

 

[Reborn]

This thread is really just a way to try and justify Zoro having some sort of advanced CoA when he doesn’t. He’s not using advanced CoA. He’s never used advanced CoA. Black blades are not advanced CoA, it’s literally just hardening. Expose a blade to hardening over a long period of time and or strong hardening and it becomes black. It’s not barrier CoA, nor is it the beyond advanced CoA Luffy knows now. It’s just hardening.

Also the attempts to try and say Zoro was using haki in Alabasta are ridiculous. It’s just a way to try and use a retcon to prop Zoro up.

Zoro doesn’t have advanced CoA, and Ryou isn’t anything more than just haki in general.

Instead of being totally in denial mode and presenting headcannon opinion of your why don't you try refuting my arguments by using manga panels and facts? That will help in understanding Ryu in general.

 

[OEKaneki]

Instead of being totally in denial mode and presenting headcannon opinion of your why don't you try refuting my arguments by using manga panels and facts? That will help in understanding Ryu in general.

Which panel? The one where Ryun was stated by Hyou to be what Wano people called haki? Or the other one where Hyou specifically states that barrier haki is advanced? Or the other that says that the haki that penetrates is beyond advanced?

It’s not “denial mode” when all you’ve done is ignore the actual panels instead of making stuff up. You talk about “understanding Ryuu” when you’re steady making stuff up about it to fit a headcanon.

 

[CbShadow]

This thread is really just a way to try and justify Zoro having some sort of advanced CoA when he doesn’t. He’s not using advanced CoA. He’s never used advanced CoA. Black blades are not advanced CoA, it’s literally just hardening. Expose a blade to hardening over a long period of time and or strong hardening and it becomes black. It’s not barrier CoA, nor is it the beyond advanced CoA Luffy knows now. It’s just hardening.

Also the attempts to try and say Zoro was using haki in Alabasta are ridiculous. It’s just a way to try and use a retcon to prop Zoro up.

Zoro doesn’t have advanced CoA, and Ryou isn’t anything more than just haki in general.

I agree that Ryuo is what Wano calls haki. At this time we don't know if forging a black blade requires advance CoA. It's possible but we don't have any information to confirm whether that is true or not. But, I disagree with the part where he stated Zoro doesn't have advance CoA.

Luffy explained to Hyo what he was trying to do. Hyo then explained to Luffy how samurais use haki (ryuo) and performed the very technique Luffy was trying to perform. When he was explaining it to Luffy he stated the way samurais uses haki it allows them to cut or not cut depending on their desire. The explanation he gave was cutting thick steel and not cutting thin paper.

When Zoro was fighting Mr. 1 he remembered his sensei telling him about a technique that allows the user to cut or not cut depending on their desire. The explanation given was cutting iron and not cutting thin paper. Zoro then performs that technique.

Zoro clearly has advanced CoA and performed it against Mr. 1. That statement is supported based on the explanation Zoro's sensei and Hyo provided. They were nearly identical. The fact Zoro's sensei's ancestors are from Wano further support the sensei knowing advanced CoA and teaching it to Zoro.

 

[OEKaneki]

I agree that Ryuo is what Wano calls haki. At this time we don't know if forging a black blade requires advance CoA. It's possible but we don't have any information to confirm whether that is true or not. But, I disagree with the part where he stated Zoro doesn't have advance CoA.

Luffy explained to Hyo what he was trying to do. Hyo then explained to Luffy how samurais use haki (ryuo) and performed the very technique Luffy was trying to perform. When he was explaining it to Luffy he stated the way samurais uses haki it allows them to cut or not cut depending on their desire. The explanation he gave was cutting thick steel and not cutting thin paper.

When Zoro was fighting Mr. 1 he remembered his sensei telling him about a technique that allows the user to cut or not cut depending on their desire. The explanation given was cutting iron and not cutting thin paper. Zoro then performs that technique.

Zoro clearly has advanced CoA and performed it against Mr. 1. That statement is supported based on the explanation Zoro's sensei and Hyo provided. They were nearly identical. The fact Zoro's sensei's ancestors are from Wano further support the sensei knowing advanced CoA and teaching it to Zoro.

Zoro does not have advanced CoA, and he did use it in Alabasta. He used a beginning step of what samurai use. You’re trying to say that Zoro used advanced CoA all the way at the beginning of the story, well before even learning basic haki and before haki was even a thing. You’re trying to retcon events that happened years ago to something current in the manga now, despite haki not even existing back then. Oda didn’t even come up with it until later when he was trying to figure out a way to balance power. He introduced mantra, but reused that as CoO later when he decided to come up with the concept of haki. It’s ridiculous to try and fit a concept that didn’t exist to the beginning of the story.

 

[CbShadow]

Zoro does not have advanced CoA, and he did use it in Alabasta. He used a beginning step of what samurai use. You’re trying to say that Zoro used advanced CoA all the way at the beginning of the story, well before even learning basic haki and before haki was even a thing. You’re trying to retcon events that happened years ago to something current in the manga now, despite haki not even existing back then. Oda didn’t even come up with it until later when he was trying to figure out a way to balance power. He introduced mantra, but reused that as CoO later when he decided to come up with the concept of haki. It’s ridiculous to try and fit a concept that didn’t exist to the beginning of the story.

Who said Haki was not a concept Oda didn't think about back then. You have no evidence to support that statement. Hyo's explanation and example of advanced CoA and sensei's explanation and example of how to cut nothing are nearly identical. Why would he do that if he wasn't trying to show a connection between the two? For all we know what Zoro did back then could have been the base concept for haki.

Haki is nothing but will power and Zoro sensei explained how to uses once power to cut or not cut. Just think about that.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Ryuu is Wa No word for Haki, barrier is advanced Haki, penetration CoA is even more advanced.

It´s obvious at this point that swordsmanship CoA provides another layer to Armament, or using weapons in general, but nothing says it is less or more advanced, just different.

 

[CbShadow]

Ryuu is Wa No word for Haki, barrier is advanced Haki, penetration CoA is even more advanced.

It´s obvious at this point that swordsmanship CoA provides another layer to Armament, or using weapons in general, but nothing says it is less or more advanced, just different.

It's the ability to cut or not cut what makes an advance haki. In other words, samurais use the haki surrounding their blade to either increase their cutting capability which is cutting what they want to cut or use the haki surrounding that blade like a barrier to protect objects/people from the blade which is not cutting what they don't want to cut.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

It's the ability to cut or not cut what makes an advance haki. In other words, samurais use the haki surrounding their blade to either increase their cutting capability which is cutting what they want to cut or use the haki surrounding that blade like a barrier to protect objects/people from the blade which is not cutting what they don't want to cut.

It isn´t, it´s simpyl the application of CoA for swordsman.

 

[CbShadow]

It isn´t, it´s simpyl the application of CoA for swordsman.

Ryuo is what they call haki. Adding it to your sword to cut or not cut is what they call advanced haki. You really need to go back and read my earlier post I explain it there.

 

[Rukusho]

It isn´t, it´s simpyl the application of CoA for swordsman.

You're correct but also incorrect.

So to the Samurai the flowing of haki is the choice whether to cut or not to cut, that's why Hyo was showing Luffy what flowing is without the sword it causes the barrier push.

Luffy didn't know how to flow his haki until Hyo showed him how to do so.

 

[ShinmenTakezo]

Ryuo is what they call haki. Adding it to your sword to cut or not cut is what they call advanced haki. You really need to go back and read my earlier post I explain it there.

Yep exactly, has nothing to do with being called Ryou though.

 

[OEKaneki]

You're correct but also incorrect.

So to the Samurai the flowing of haki is the choice whether to cut or not to cut, that's why Hyo was showing Luffy what flowing is without the sword it causes the barrier push.

Luffy didn't know how to flow his haki until Hyo showed him how to do so.

That's not true. Luffy already knew the flow part, that's literally just covering the body/blade. He didn't know how to apply it to make the barrier, which is what Hyou was teaching him, except Luffy went way further. Hyou told him that he had already mastered covering his body in CoA in 947.

 

[Rukusho]

That's not true. Luffy already knew the flow part, that's literally just covering the body/blade. He didn't know how to apply it to make the barrier, which is what Hyou was teaching him, except Luffy went way further. Hyou told him that he had already mastered covering his body in CoA in 947.

Flowing is not the same as covering your body.

You have to be capable of utilizing the Haki from your body and placing that into your blade.

that’s what causes the barrier technique for brawlers ironically the people Luffy remembers using it are weapons users (Rayleigh & Sentomaru)

 

[OEKaneki]

Flowing is not the same as covering your body.

You have to be capable of utilizing the Haki from your body and placing that into your blade.

that’s what causes the barrier technique for brawlers ironically the people Luffy remembers using it are weapons users (Rayleigh & Sentomaru)

He later goes on to say that it’s covering your blade or body in an invisible armor. It’s the same thing. Flow is just the transfer of CoA. In 947 he says that “the thing I can teach you is the ryou that you cover the outside of your body with,” and he’s talking about the same thing above. Luffy had already mastered that, but was using it wrong.

It is the same thing.