Powers & Abilities General CoA Discussion - Basic & Advanced
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Are you that dense, Luffy has to prove what?
When was Oden having the same COA level as Luffy that Hyo states is above anything they have,
And when was Zoro having the same level of COA as Oden, did he cut Kaido and we missed it?
Also, superior one if after he trains with ENAMA he can do that with the other two, and I mean to cut Kaido then that means his COA was that good if not then ENMA is part of the feat not only his Haki!
When was Oden having the same COA level as Luffy that Hyo states is above anything they have,
And when was Zoro having the same level of COA as Oden, did he cut Kaido and we missed it?
Also, superior one if after he trains with ENAMA he can do that with the other two, and I mean to cut Kaido then that means his COA was that good if not then ENMA is part of the feat not only his Haki!
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Are you this dense or what? Luffy has yet to prove he has CoA strong enough to not get his rubber ass passed out trying to tame Enma that only one man in Wano history has been able to do and same man has CoA strong enough to permanently wound Kaido. The only other **** strong enough to pull of same feat of taming Enma is Zoro
When was Luffy strong enough to have CoA same level as Oden lmao? All he has done is broken toys in prison why Oden has given Kaido permanently lasting scar with his Haki. Oden's Haki accomplishment (And Zoro's Haki accomplishment of taming Oden sword) shits on Luffy's Haki accomplishment of breaking toys.
No but he casually tamed sword that hurt Kaido and is projected to make Enma permanently black, something even Oden couldn't do
:cheers:
When was Luffy strong enough to have CoA same level as Oden lmao? All he has done is broken toys in prison why Oden has given Kaido permanently lasting scar with his Haki. Oden's Haki accomplishment (And Zoro's Haki accomplishment of taming Oden sword) shits on Luffy's Haki accomplishment of breaking toys.
No but he casually tamed sword that hurt Kaido and is projected to make Enma permanently black, something even Oden couldn't do
:cheers:
LOL ... where did I say that Anyone will solo Kaido.
@ShishioIsBack said that Zoro will cut Kaido and I said that Luffy will defeat Kaido, where did you see the solo part?
@ShishioIsBack said that Zoro will cut Kaido and I said that Luffy will defeat Kaido, where did you see the solo part?
@Reborn when Hancock hit Smoker in MF, the latter said « Ugh the Kuja haki! » as if they have a specific haki technic.
When Luffy was on Amazon Lilly we saw that the Amazon was using :
-Invisible haki on arrow to make them stronger
-Deflection haki
In Wano they are using :
-Koka on blade
-The action to cut or not cut something
-Black blade
Hyo who was call the « mighty sword » did not know how to use « penetration » even tho he knows what it is.
So my guess is that the Kuja choose the invisible haki branch while the Wano samurais took the koka’s one. This for me further proves the two branchs. I see this like this :
Invisible haki on limbs (Luffy vs Pacifista)
Koka on limbs (Luffy vs Kraken)
Technics: Fullbody koka or flaming koka
Invisible haki on weapon (Tashigi vs Monet)
Koka on weapon (Zoro vs Pica)
Technic: Flaming koka
Invisible haki on solid object with no contact with the body (Margaret’s arrow)
Koka on solid object with no contact with the body (Katakuri’s Chikara mochi)
Technic: invisible haki or koka on non-consistent object
-Technic: using level 1 koka and deflection at the same time
-Level 5-
Invisible haki « Penetration » (Raileigh vs iron collar
Specificity of invisible haki : Lighter, less tiresome, can be mix with element without making them solid, can deflect any thing, can destroy thing from inside
Specificity of koka : Heavier, more tiresome, can be mix with devil fruit, enhance the hardness of any weapon, allow the user to change the form of something, can definitely change the nature of something
Furthermore Koka has strength level:
Level 1: Black and white (Luffy most of the time)
Level 2: Black and red ( Luffy in « Snakeman »)
Level 3: Black and blue (Katakuri’s koka)
When Luffy was on Amazon Lilly we saw that the Amazon was using :
-Invisible haki on arrow to make them stronger
-Deflection haki
In Wano they are using :
-Koka on blade
-The action to cut or not cut something
-Black blade
Hyo who was call the « mighty sword » did not know how to use « penetration » even tho he knows what it is.
So my guess is that the Kuja choose the invisible haki branch while the Wano samurais took the koka’s one. This for me further proves the two branchs. I see this like this :
-Level 1-
Invisible haki on limbs (Luffy vs Pacifista)
Koka on limbs (Luffy vs Kraken)
Technics: Fullbody koka or flaming koka
-Level 2-
Invisible haki on weapon (Tashigi vs Monet)
Koka on weapon (Zoro vs Pica)
Technic: Flaming koka
-Level 3-
Invisible haki on solid object with no contact with the body (Margaret’s arrow)
Koka on solid object with no contact with the body (Katakuri’s Chikara mochi)
Technic: invisible haki or koka on non-consistent object
-Level 4-
Invisible haki « Deflection » (Raileigh vs Elephant)
The ability to cut or not what you want ( Zoro vs Mr1)-Technic: using level 1 koka and deflection at the same time
-Level 5-
Black blade
-Technic: use penetration and level 1 koka at the same time Specificity of invisible haki : Lighter, less tiresome, can be mix with element without making them solid, can deflect any thing, can destroy thing from inside
Specificity of koka : Heavier, more tiresome, can be mix with devil fruit, enhance the hardness of any weapon, allow the user to change the form of something, can definitely change the nature of something
Furthermore Koka has strength level:
Level 1: Black and white (Luffy most of the time)
Level 2: Black and red ( Luffy in « Snakeman »)
Level 3: Black and blue (Katakuri’s koka)
Its called jumping someone.So Killer was not defeated by Zoro because he was not 100%, he was in bandages and he had his weapons changed!
Got it!
Also, Pica was not defeated by Zoro because without Orlumbus help he could not use that tactic
My point was very simple, Zoro at most wounds Kaido.
Luffy finishes and does the most damage.
Luffy >> Zoro.
This seams Ok but I don't see black blade beein the same level as penetration haki.
Shusui vs penetration haki.
Penetration haki stomps.
Got it!
Also, Pica was not defeated by Zoro because without Orlumbus help he could not use that tactic
My point was very simple, Zoro at most wounds Kaido.
Luffy finishes and does the most damage.
Luffy >> Zoro.
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This seams Ok but I don't see black blade beein the same level as penetration haki.
Shusui vs penetration haki.
Penetration haki stomps.
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Nice thread @Reborn. Didn't have much time to give my input into this thus far, but i love the way you depicted things here.
First of all, i agree with the fact that Ryou is what Wano people reference as haki in the manga. It's a little bit like Mantra, which is observation haki in Skypiea. Considering Wano has a politic against outsiders, it makes perfect sense they have different type of namings when it comes to abilities, just like how they view devil fruits as magic abilities.
Second of all, the way i view the hardening aspects of haki, i think it goes this way
1- Invisible haki
2- Hardening
3- Flow of haki(which can be used for deflection for a brawler or cut/not cut what you want to cut for a swordsman)
Which is what Ryou masters of Wano usually use
And that Luffy said he saw other people like Rayleigh or Sentomaru using(Marigold as well for the matter)
This version of haki deflection is mentioned to be lighter
With Luffy learning not to strain too much
So suggesting a better haki flow control
But if advanced even further, it can allow you to destroy things from the inside, which is what Rayleigh and Luffy(unconsciously) used. All of this is explained here
But another aspect of a higher form than the regular flow of haki that Oda adressed is the ability for a swordsman to turn the sword permanently black.
From what we know, only Oden managed to tame Enma before or after
Which implies he had better flow of haki(control) than Hyogoro, and the 9 red scabbards, but even him never managed to turn his sword permanently black, which is mentioned to make a sword upgrade in level
So ultimately the most highest form of haki we know thus far are the level in which allows a brawler to destroy things from the inside and the one that allows a swordsman to turn his blade permanently black
First of all, i agree with the fact that Ryou is what Wano people reference as haki in the manga. It's a little bit like Mantra, which is observation haki in Skypiea. Considering Wano has a politic against outsiders, it makes perfect sense they have different type of namings when it comes to abilities, just like how they view devil fruits as magic abilities.
Second of all, the way i view the hardening aspects of haki, i think it goes this way
1- Invisible haki
2- Hardening
3- Flow of haki(which can be used for deflection for a brawler or cut/not cut what you want to cut for a swordsman)
Which is what Ryou masters of Wano usually use
And that Luffy said he saw other people like Rayleigh or Sentomaru using(Marigold as well for the matter)
This version of haki deflection is mentioned to be lighter
With Luffy learning not to strain too much
So suggesting a better haki flow control
But if advanced even further, it can allow you to destroy things from the inside, which is what Rayleigh and Luffy(unconsciously) used. All of this is explained here
But another aspect of a higher form than the regular flow of haki that Oda adressed is the ability for a swordsman to turn the sword permanently black.
From what we know, only Oden managed to tame Enma before or after
Which implies he had better flow of haki(control) than Hyogoro, and the 9 red scabbards, but even him never managed to turn his sword permanently black, which is mentioned to make a sword upgrade in level
So ultimately the most highest form of haki we know thus far are the level in which allows a brawler to destroy things from the inside and the one that allows a swordsman to turn his blade permanently black
:smithnie:oda advanced haki destroys from inside out.
Reborn and his pals " also making your sword permanently black; also the flying slashes "
Reborn and his pals " also making your sword permanently black; also the flying slashes "
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Hyogoro: "Oh that is Ryouou, which means flow of Haki. Swordsmen in Wano use it to coat their swords"
Doodle bob with his chimpanzee reading skills: Ryouou is not advanced Haki
Tengoyama: "Oden could never make a black blade despite being able to hurt Kaido but with your skill you can take it to that next level"
Doodle bob: with his chimpanzee Permanent black blade is not next level
@Bogard @Rivaille
First of all, thank you for such detail inputs. The posts helped me broaden my understanding.
I will later try to make some modifications in the op to make it more detailed and simple based on what you guys said.
Also, I am glad that majority people (including both of you) with few exceptions, see the concept in form of hierarchy and with black blade and penetration at the highest form.
I was very skeptic regarding while making the thread because people complicated the concept due to seeing every thing from PL perspective and I am really glad that so many people are agreeing to it.
But I have a question to ask. A vague one and it might not make much sense but I will still ask. Lol
1)haki has different usage. These usage differs on account of few things
a) level of usage - basic, advanced, highly advanced or you can say levels
b) varies with character personality/attitude of characters
c) across fighting styles
Why? There has to be some sort of convergence. There has to be some sort of common thread linking everything.
There is so much diversity in usage but there has to be some sort of unity in this diversity that links everything.
There is another question but I don't know how to phrase it so leave it lol
I have some thoughts on it but I just want to know what you guys think.
First of all, thank you for such detail inputs. The posts helped me broaden my understanding.
I will later try to make some modifications in the op to make it more detailed and simple based on what you guys said.
Also, I am glad that majority people (including both of you) with few exceptions, see the concept in form of hierarchy and with black blade and penetration at the highest form.
I was very skeptic regarding while making the thread because people complicated the concept due to seeing every thing from PL perspective and I am really glad that so many people are agreeing to it.
But I have a question to ask. A vague one and it might not make much sense but I will still ask. Lol
1)haki has different usage. These usage differs on account of few things
a) level of usage - basic, advanced, highly advanced or you can say levels
b) varies with character personality/attitude of characters
c) across fighting styles
Why? There has to be some sort of convergence. There has to be some sort of common thread linking everything.
There is so much diversity in usage but there has to be some sort of unity in this diversity that links everything.
There is another question but I don't know how to phrase it so leave it lol
I have some thoughts on it but I just want to know what you guys think.
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Lmao what? Sentomaru and Rayleigh in Luffy's flash back are using flow of Haki to make a Haki barrier. It is same flow that swordsmen use to coat their Haki.
Both are Ryouou aka advanced version of Haki aka flowing Haki. Doodle it doesn't take a genius to understand that just read the OP
Lmaoo no lol. Zoro taming Enma was all because that motherfucker has stronger Haki than all Wano samurai in recent history including mighty blade hyogoro, Ashura Doji, kawamatsu besides Oden.
Only thing Wado is helping him with is getting used to Enma as both Katanas are of similar nature probably weight, size and shape wise where as Shushui was more adjustment. Wado has nothing to do with Zoro's Haki lol
Both are Ryouou aka advanced version of Haki aka flowing Haki. Doodle it doesn't take a genius to understand that just read the OP
Lmaoo no lol. Zoro taming Enma was all because that motherfucker has stronger Haki than all Wano samurai in recent history including mighty blade hyogoro, Ashura Doji, kawamatsu besides Oden.
Only thing Wado is helping him with is getting used to Enma as both Katanas are of similar nature probably weight, size and shape wise where as Shushui was more adjustment. Wado has nothing to do with Zoro's Haki lol
I
Keep your headcanons for yourself.
Black blade isn't advanced haki... it might be higher coating oneself with koka
Just like shockwave isnt actually advanced haki...
There is no such thing as Advanced haki for swordmen and brawlers lol
Brawler and swordmen can coat (invisible or visible) , can do shockwaves and can do the penetration...
Also Blck blade happens if you use too much CoA through many battles...
It doesnt happen in one battle ...
Black blade isn't advanced haki... it might be higher coating oneself with koka
Just like shockwave isnt actually advanced haki...
There is no such thing as Advanced haki for swordmen and brawlers lol
Brawler and swordmen can coat (invisible or visible) , can do shockwaves and can do the penetration...
Also Blck blade happens if you use too much CoA through many battles...
It doesnt happen in one battle ...
Okay no, what Luffy called advanced Haki is Ryouou which is flow of Haki. That is not my head cannon, that is literally straight from manga.
Swordsman use their Haki flow to coat their swords, brawlers can use to create Haki shockwave. There are other applications as well like making Haki flying slash.
For people who use haki shock waves, there is an even high level which is pouring our Ryuou inside your enemy and damaging from inside.
For people who coat their swords with Haki, their is an even higher level which is making permanently Hakified blade.
And no lmao black blade doesn't just come through "Too many" battles, Shanks and Rayleigh had far more battles than Zoro, even Oden had and none of them had made a permanently black. Its obviously your Haki level, which is why Zoro is projected to make permanent Haki blade and when he does his Haki will surpass Oden's. Lmao
Swordsman use their Haki flow to coat their swords, brawlers can use to create Haki shockwave. There are other applications as well like making Haki flying slash.
For people who use haki shock waves, there is an even high level which is pouring our Ryuou inside your enemy and damaging from inside.
For people who coat their swords with Haki, their is an even higher level which is making permanently Hakified blade.
And no lmao black blade doesn't just come through "Too many" battles, Shanks and Rayleigh had far more battles than Zoro, even Oden had and none of them had made a permanently black. Its obviously your Haki level, which is why Zoro is projected to make permanent Haki blade and when he does his Haki will surpass Oden's. Lmao