Spoiler One Piece Chapter 979 Spoilers Discussion
- Thread starter Gol D. Roger
- Start date
- Status
You're so in denial you ignored 95% of my comment and only fixated to the first 4 words
You're either incredibly stupid or as delusional as Luffy when he punched Kaido
You're either incredibly stupid or as delusional as Luffy when he punched Kaido
I'm far from stupid. I'm simply sticking to official material. And official material says that not every right hand man is a first mate, hence why Beckman is a first mate but Marco isn't. So the moment the official material makes a distinction between the two concepts, the moment those who merge them into only one role become the delusional ones here.
Last edited:
I know. Maybe you should remind that to this guy I'm arguing with:
What's your point here, exactly? We started discussing because you said that "First Mate =/= Vice Captain" even though those are the same concepts, that "vice captain" doesn't even applies to ship crews and that this manga, within its logic, precisely uses the term "first mate" and lacks any distinction between those two roles.
Where One Piece's logic may actually differ from real world's is when it conceives crews without an official hierarchy that'd require a first mate, hence why Marco nor Zoro share that role.
So what's your real definition and point here, again? Vice captain is the same as first mate both in our world and in One Piece, and official material hasn't given Zoro the title of first mate but of combatant because not every right hand man in this manga is a first mate.
First mate =/= Vice captain
It's funny because he is both
It's funny because he is both
Let's nitpick about the realdefinitions of pirate and apply that logic to One Piece, because One Piece definitely applies real pirates logic 
You hate Zoro so much you find loopholes in what being a first mate means..... in the real world
Oh yeah little reminder One Piece is a fictional story
You hate Zoro so much you find loopholes in what being a first mate means..... in the real world
Oh yeah little reminder One Piece is a fictional story
Where One Piece's logic may actually differ from real world's is when it conceives crews without an official hierarchy that'd require a first mate, hence why Marco nor Zoro share that role.
So what's your real definition and point here, again? Vice captain is the same as first mate both in our world and in One Piece, and official material hasn't given Zoro the title of first mate but of combatant because not every right hand man in this manga is a first mate.
Last edited:
That makes absolutely no sense.
Did Jack get a clean hit on Ashura? No, it was Ashura who got the clean hit on Jack. Looked him in the eyes, ran right at him while Jack looked back at him, destroyed Jack's sword who tried to block him, and slashed him up before he could throw a counter attack (look at Jack's left hand). Then Jack was able to clash on par with Ashura for couple of minutes.
Are you trying to make a claim that Jack, the beast of a man who by portrayal is near the likes of Katakuri, can't hang with King for couple of minutes? That's absurd.
Did Jack get a clean hit on Ashura? No, it was Ashura who got the clean hit on Jack. Looked him in the eyes, ran right at him while Jack looked back at him, destroyed Jack's sword who tried to block him, and slashed him up before he could throw a counter attack (look at Jack's left hand). Then Jack was able to clash on par with Ashura for couple of minutes.
Are you trying to make a claim that Jack, the beast of a man who by portrayal is near the likes of Katakuri, can't hang with King for couple of minutes? That's absurd.
I think @Charlotte Horchata knows the difference from talking with them. The idea is that while Zoro is certainly, 100% portrayed as Luffy's right hand man:
- Urouge's definition on Zoro was "2nd Hand", not First Mate. It was translated as first mate by VIZ, but Urouge doesn't actually call him "Fukusenchoo", he calls him "Niban Te", literally "2nd Hand"
- Bartolomeo 100% calls Zoro "Fukusenchoo", but he explicitly says "My voice/words/belief/opinion/etc" (he says "Ore no koe") in the midst of claiming this.
I get where they are coming from, but this point, its really just discussing silly semantics about these characters though. The Strawhats are all friends at heart and there is zero command hierarchy in the end because Luffy listens to the demands of his crew and follows through (Law was entirely confused by this at PH lol). Clearly Zoro is Luffy's right hand man, pretty much functioning as the "Vice Captain". Luffy himself is a pretty shitty Captain too, and none of his crewmates even treat him as such lol.
- Urouge's definition on Zoro was "2nd Hand", not First Mate. It was translated as first mate by VIZ, but Urouge doesn't actually call him "Fukusenchoo", he calls him "Niban Te", literally "2nd Hand"
- Bartolomeo 100% calls Zoro "Fukusenchoo", but he explicitly says "My voice/words/belief/opinion/etc" (he says "Ore no koe") in the midst of claiming this.
I get where they are coming from, but this point, its really just discussing silly semantics about these characters though. The Strawhats are all friends at heart and there is zero command hierarchy in the end because Luffy listens to the demands of his crew and follows through (Law was entirely confused by this at PH lol). Clearly Zoro is Luffy's right hand man, pretty much functioning as the "Vice Captain". Luffy himself is a pretty shitty Captain too, and none of his crewmates even treat him as such lol.
And let me add that I wouldn't even have a problem with considering Zoro a first mate if the Vivre Cards hadn't made a very explicit distinction between first mates and right hand men. So obviously there is some factual difference between them that can't be ignored (which is the mistake made by some users that I'm trying to correct in this thread), and my additional point is that, by addressing Zoro as the first mate, people may be hurting what Oda wants to convey in terms of dynamics and organizational structure in crews like Whitebeard's, Big Mom's or Luffy's in comparison to Roger's, Buggy's or Shanks's. And I find this to be very important and not simply semantics.
Rayleigh is recognized as the "First Mate" of the Roger Pirates by the world of OP, hence he's introduced as the First Mate of the Roger Pirates. Ben Beckman is the same way.
Katakuri, King, Marco, don't share that relationship with their captains, because they didn't start off with being their captain's "partners" which is essentially what you need to be in order to be classified as such. Beckman/Rayleigh/Zoro all share this.
I mean we saw the flashback with Roger Pirates, did Rayleigh act any special outside of fighting compared to the rest of the crewmates? Nope. Had Ben Beckman acted any special compared to the other pirates or been specially acknowledged as a higher up by the likes of Lucky Roux or Yasopp? Nope.
In the end the world of One Piece will recognize Zoro as the Vice-Captain /First Mate/ Right hand of Monkey D. Luffy, and that's what will essentially be recorded in One Piece history. Which is pretty much all that matters.
Katakuri, King, Marco, don't share that relationship with their captains, because they didn't start off with being their captain's "partners" which is essentially what you need to be in order to be classified as such. Beckman/Rayleigh/Zoro all share this.
I mean we saw the flashback with Roger Pirates, did Rayleigh act any special outside of fighting compared to the rest of the crewmates? Nope. Had Ben Beckman acted any special compared to the other pirates or been specially acknowledged as a higher up by the likes of Lucky Roux or Yasopp? Nope.
In the end the world of One Piece will recognize Zoro as the Vice-Captain /First Mate/ Right hand of Monkey D. Luffy, and that's what will essentially be recorded in One Piece history. Which is pretty much all that matters.
- Status