Versus Battle Ouki vs Kanmei

[God Buggy]

Ouki vs Kanmei, 1 vs 1 duel.

Spoiler: Ouki

- "Strongest in China" (which Moubu had brought up) rang an Ouki bell in Saitaku, who brought up Qin's monster bird after hearing Moubu's claim.

- He almost defeated Houken, the peak of pure martial might, twice (there were interruptions in both cases). It's also worth noticing that Houken had given the "trembling arm" thing to Bayou Moubu.

Spoiler: Kanmei

- Defeated Oukotsu of the Qin Six in a fight (Oukotsu actually got dealt with in a single blow, I think either he drastically underestimated Kanmei or was drunk lol). That being said, the intent was obviously to show that Kanmei > Oukotsu.
(Oukotsu was said to have the highest amount of brute strenght amongst the old Qin Six).

- Claimed to be the strongest in China, gave Moubu the fight of his life and despite Moubu ultimately being able to overcome the gigantic wall posed by Kanmei, the Chu giant was still claimed (by Man'U) to be stronger than Moubu - despite Moubu having taken the W.

Share your thoughts.

Spoiler: My answer

Kanmei, nothing short of an extreme diff fight of course. It'd be a very close one.

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Blackbeard @Yo Tan Wa @Seth @TheKnightOfTheSea @MarineHQ @Great General Kanki @Jailer @Shanks @SakazOuki

 

[Owl Ki]

Kanmei probably wins via brute force, extreme diff victory.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Kanmei high or extreme diff. Heavily underrated character as a general, not so much as a warrior. The only person Kanmei might lose a fair 1v1 to Moubu, and even then it’s either/or.

 

[SakazOuki]

Ouki, Kanmei and Moubu are more or less the same level. Not all GG factors are equal, Ouki and Renpa for example are a cut above most generals in that regard. This kinda balances out the small difference in raw strength between the two.

You know GG factor is more important than strength when the MC himself might never reach the level of raw strength of tanks like Kanmei, Moubu or Zenou. The difference will be marginally due to skill but mostly the weight of the general. For that reason I favor Ouki in this matchup.
Ouki level will be surpassed by 3 characters afaik, Shin, Moubu and maybe Ouhon

 

[ranady]

I think Kanmei wins with extreme difficulty

 

[Owl Ki]

Ouki, Kanmei and Moubu are more or less the same level. Not all GG factors are equal, Ouki and Renpa for example are a cut above most generals in that regard. This kinda balances out the small difference in raw strength between the two.

You know GG factor is more important than strength when the MC himself might never reach the level of raw strength of tanks like Kanmei, Moubu or Zenou. The difference will be marginally due to skill but mostly the weight of the general. For that reason I favor Ouki in this matchup.
Ouki level will be surpassed by 3 characters afaik, Shin, Moubu and maybe Ouhon

Weight is overrated by the fandom. For starters, Kanmei wasn't lacking in Weight. Man got his Weight hyped up by friend and foe alike.

Shouheikan even claimed that it was Kanmei's Weight which is what potentially made him the strongest (in a duel) General in all of China at that time and sure, Ouki was dead but Renpa certainly wasn't.

What did Moubu think about all this Weight?

Moubu himself proved that pure might could bust superior weight.

Spoiler: Kanmei's "weight" superiority.

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-312-page-17.html

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-313-page-6.html

Spoiler: Moubu's fecks to give.

Not much apparently. Lol.

So Kanmei's Weight cancels out Ouki's Weight. That just leaves the actual strength of each General in question which Kanmei edges Ouki out on.

Kanmei wins.

Edit: Images needed replacing. Lol.

 

[FutureWarrior123]

Kanmei extreme diff.

 

[SakazOuki]

Weight is overrated by the fandom. For starters, Kanmei wasn't lacking in Weight. Man got his Weight hyped up by friend and foe alike.

Shouheikan even claimed that it was Kanmei's Weight which is what potentially made him the strongest (in a duel) General in all of China at that time and sure, Ouki was dead but Renpa certainly wasn't.

What did Moubu think about all this Weight?

Not much apparently. Lol.

So Kanmei's Weight cancels out Ouki's Weight. That just leaves the actual strength of each General in question which Kanmei edges Ouki out on.

Kanmei wins.

Moubu is carrying weight, and it was this heavy burden that pushed him to the limits. Kanmei does hold great weight but he's a brute not a visionary general who made China his little playground.
Do you think Ouhon or Shin will surpass Kanmei and Moubu in raw strength? Hard to see honestly
And Ouki has monstrous strength himself, these stat are kinda accurate when it comes to the top brass

From Houken's duels we kinda know weight is #1 power in Kingdom, so it falls down on wether you think a charismatic beast like Ouki carries the same weight as Kanmei

Moubu actually carries a shit ton of weight, and I think I can finally say he's #1 in the verse after he deals with whatever depression he's going through now

 

[Seth]

Ouki vs Kanmei, 1 vs 1 duel.

Spoiler: Ouki

- "Strongest in China" (which Moubu had brought up) rang an Ouki bell in Saitaku, who brought up Qin's monster bird after hearing Moubu's claim.

- He almost defeated Houken, the peak of pure martial might, twice (there were interruptions in both cases). It's also worth noticing that Houken had given the "trembling arm" thing to Bayou Moubu.

Spoiler: Kanmei

- Defeated Oukotsu of the Qin Six in a fight (Oukotsu actually got dealt with in a single blow, I think either he drastically underestimated Kanmei or was drunk lol). That being said, the intent was obviously to show that Kanmei > Oukotsu.
(Oukotsu was said to have the highest amount of brute strenght amongst the old Qin Six).

- Claimed to be the strongest in China, gave Moubu the fight of his life and despite Moubu ultimately being able to overcome the gigantic wall posed by Kanmei, the Chu giant was still claimed (by Man'U) to be stronger than Moubu - despite Moubu having taken the W.

Share your thoughts.

Spoiler: My answer

Kanmei, nothing short of an extreme diff fight of course. It'd be a very close one.

@Owl Ki @Elder Lee Hung @FutureWarrior123 @Blackbeard @Yo Tan Wa @Seth @TheKnightOfTheSea @MarineHQ @Great General Kanki @Jailer @Shanks

Ouki.

He defeated Houken first time after Kyou's death and only didn't finish him off due to rage and sorrow from the loss of his loved one.

The second time they fought, Ouki was battle worn already and he still matched Houken much to his surprise and lost due to interference from the Arrow guy. Prior to that they were going blow for blow and who knows if Houken's spirit wouldn't crumble under Ouki's pressure despite having physical advantage.

Meanwhile Moubu was sitting trapped watching from far and couldn't do shit. Of course context matters here too, he was trapped but it is clear Moubu would get defeated by Houken. Same Moubu that defeated Kanmei.

ManU would've defeated Moubu if Hara didn't decide to mentally cripple him💀

 

[Owl Ki]

Moubu is carrying weight, and it was this heavy burden that pushed him to the limits.

Well here it doesn't matter whether you believe that Weight is Weight and it doesn't come in varying amounts or if Weight comes in varying amounts due to battlefield experience.

If it is the former then two people that posses Weight will cancel each other's Weight out and it then becomes a fight of martial prowess.

If it is the latter then fights like Moubu vs Kanmei or Shin vs Chougaryuu prove that enough of a gap in martial might will overcome Weight since by all accounts, Kanmei would have had more Weight than Moubu.

Kanmei does hold great weight but he's a brute not a visionary general who made China his little playground.

As @Elder Lee Hung said, folk really do underestimate Kanmei as a General. Lol.

Kanmei has conquered around 100 cities (equal to Kyou of the Qin Six), fought against four of the Seven Warring States and has not suffered a single loss ever since he started leading his own campaigns.

Spoiler: Chapter 311

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-311-page-9.html

Kanmei much like Moubu is a straightforward General but he is not an idiot. An idiot would never have achieved as much as Kanmei did especially in the era he achieved it in.

Do you think Ouhon or Shin will surpass Kanmei and Moubu in raw strength? Hard to see honestly

In raw strength? No. Lol.

From Houken's duels we kinda know weight is #1 power in Kingdom, so it falls down on wether you think a charismatic beast like Ouki carries the same weight as Kanmei

Weight was important against Houken because one, he didn't have any and two, Houken was built up as the antithesis to Weight. Besides, as we saw in Houken vs Duke Hyou, martial might can overcome Weight if the opponent doesn't have enough martial might to back it up with. Weight is a boost to martial might that can make up for a slight difference in strength. Hyou didn't have enough martial might against Houken for his Weight to make up the difference.

Like I said before, Shouheikan was of the opinion that Kanmei's Weight was enough to place him amongst the strongest Generals in all of China, so that puts Kanmei's Weight in the same ballpark as Ouki's equal in Renpa.

So if the Weight is equal then that leaves the outcome of the duel to martial might which Kanmei edges out on.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

Kanmei. Does. Have. Weight.

Getting really tired of everyone on this forum assuming only their favorites have weight. Weight is pretty common among top tier generals, even non Great Generals like Gyou’Un and Garyuu have weight.

 

[Dark Admiral]

Ouki can give an extreme diff battle to Kanmei but I believe Kanmei is stronger than him and as others have stated, he too carries a Weight of a GG.

 

[Yo Tan Wa]

Well here it doesn't matter whether you believe that Weight is Weight and it doesn't come in varying amounts or if Weight comes in varying amounts due to battlefield experience.

If it is the former then two people that posses Weight will cancel each other's Weight out and it then becomes a fight of martial prowess.

If it is the latter then fights like Moubu vs Kanmei or Shin vs Chougaryuu prove that enough of a gap in martial might will overcome Weight since by all accounts, Kanmei would have had more Weight than Moubu.

Weight just can't be equal when each General have different experience, responsibilities and fighting for their own different reasons.

I don't also believe Weight is fixed, it can vary and even increase during the fight. What matters is what's at stake in the fight. Basically it is a factor which make battle complex than simple in Kingdom. A>B is not fixed among strongests.

 

[Jailer]

Ouki by portrayal and weight factor should edge out extreme diff. Houken was solely martial general yet Ouki with the weight factor was dominating him. Let's not even talk about Shin vs Houken who was facetanking him because of weight. Shin won solely due to that factor.

Same logic with Kanmei's physical strength, can't see Ouki losing to him.

 

[Owl Ki]

Weight just can't be equal when each General have different experience, responsibilities and fighting for their own different reasons.

I don't also believe Weight is fixed, it can vary and even increase during the fight. What matters is what's at stake in the fight. Basically it is a factor which make battle complex than simple in Kingdom. A>B is not fixed among strongests.

Assuming that all of this is true, how is any of this going to help Ouki?

Kanmei's Weight was enough for Shouheikan to place him at the foremost of all of China's Generals including Ouki's supposed equal in Renpa.

Spoiler: Kanmei's Weight

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-312-page-17.html

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-313-page-6.html

So Kanmei undeniably has Weight. Very impressive Weight according to Shouheikan.

Ouki won against Houken, somebody physically and martially slightly superior to him because Houken lacked Weight completely and actively rejected the concept. This allowed Ouki's Weight to make up for the small difference in strength. This still all resulted in an evenly matched exchange where Ouki was going to win by an extreme difficulty.

Here, Ouki is going up against a physically superior opponent that has Weight that both friend and foe praise.

If Ouki's only advantage against a superior opponent is removed then what is going to happen?

Ouki is going to lose, that is what is going to happen.

Edit: Images needed replacing. Lol.

 

[God Buggy]

While I do have Kanmei winning and I think he should take it like I said (I'd say right now Moubu > Kanmei > Ouki in a fight)... if somebody wants to give an edge to Ouki it's not really unreasonable. Ouki's portrayal as a fighter was insane.

In any case, I don't ever see Kanmei needing less than extreme diff to best him.

 

[Owl Ki]

Kanmei. Does. Have. Weight.

Getting really tired of everyone on this forum assuming only their favorites have weight. Weight is pretty common among top tier generals, even non Great Generals like Gyou’Un and Garyuu have weight.

Tell me about, it is like talking to a brick wall. There seems to be some strange consensus that having Weight makes for a guaranteed win when that has never been the case.

The bringing up of Houken is especially strange since it was only a big deal in his fights precisely because Houken didn't have any Weight whatsoever. Despite that, Ouki needed extreme difficulty to beat Houken, Duke Hyou got murdered and Shin's last fight against him was a draw.

Weight is what allowed some of these fighters to barely eek out a win against a dude without any Weight whatsoever..... So how exactly is supposedly having slightly more Weight than a bloke with supposedly slightly less Weight such an apparently critical factor when having Weight barely won out against a guy without any at all?

People really do overrate this thing. Lol.

 

[Jailer]

People really do overrate this thing. Lol

You say this but then try to wrap your head around Shin vs Houken.

 

[Lee Ba Shou]

You say this but then try to wrap your head around Shin vs Houken.

Because Houken had no weight. Kanmei does have weight.

Tell me about, it is like talking to a brick wall. There seems to be some strange consensus that having Weight makes for a guaranteed win when that has never been the case.

The bringing up of Houken is especially strange since it was only a big deal in his fights precisely because Houken didn't have any Weight whatsoever. Despite that, Ouki needed extreme difficulty to beat Houken, Duke Hyou got murdered and Shin's last fight against him was a draw.

Weight is what allowed some of these fighters to barely eek out a win against a dude without any Weight whatsoever..... So how exactly is supposedly having slightly more Weight than a bloke with supposedly slightly less Weight such an apparently critical factor when having Weight barely won out against a guy without any at all?

People really do overrate this thing. Lol.

If we take Ouki’s definition of weight at face value, that Weight stems from ones career and service record as a general, then literally every fucking military commander in this manga has weight in some form lol. The only ones that would be excluded from having Weight would be extremely untraditional commanders like Houken, possibly Kanki, etc.. Generals who only barely qualify as generals. Every other commander should have weight in some form.

Even if we assume characters like Ouki have greater weight than characters like Garyuu for example, assuming that Weight is tied to service record and all…what makes somebody like Ouki’s service record greater than somebody like Kanmei? Because Ouki is a “good guy?” Because Ouki is a main character? No sorry, that’s not how this works. In terms of their actual military careers. Kanmei probably has a superior service record to Ouki.

We know that Kanmei had claimed 99 undefeated consecutive victories for Chu before he was even a Great General, Kanmei also defeated Oukotsu who was Ouki’s peer. People will try to underestimate Oukotsu but when the 6 GG system was revived 2 decades after its collapse, Oukotsu’s name was still being referenced by the other states while none of them mentioned Ouki. Ouki and Oukotsu should be near equals and we all saw Oukotsu vs Kanmei.

That’s not to say Kanmei negs Ouki (Oukotsu goofed) but it is to say there’s literally nothing suggesting Ouki has greater or even equivalent weight to Kanmei. People are conflating their love for a main character/agreeing with his ideals, to an actual weight advantage where none exists.

 

[Owl Ki]

You say this but then try to wrap your head around Shin vs Houken.

What exactly is your point here? That because this thing is relevant in fights where one guy lacks it entirely then that means it is relevant to all fights?

Outside of Houken fights where one of the fighters has no Weight whatsoever and actively rejects the concept, how often has Weight been brought up in a fight? How often has it even been relevant to the outcome of the fight?

Kanmei has it but Shouheikan believes Moubu can brute force it anyway.

Renpa, Gaimou and Gyou'un each have a moment where Shin goes "Whoa! This guy has Weight!!" and then it is never brought up again or is relevant to whatever is going on. Renpa calls quits, Shin stalls Gaimou for an arc and Shin stalls Gyou'un for a day.

Chougaryuu waxes lyrical about having it.

Spoiler: Chapter 598

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-598-page-12.html

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-598-page-13.html

Then Kyoukai goes "Oh, that isn't an advantage for him cause Shin also has it."

Spoiler: Chapter 598

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-598-page-14.html

https://mangasee123.com/read-online/Kingdom-chapter-598-page-15.html

So it then comes back down to who is stronger in a fight, which is Shin.

This is it, this is all the examples I can think of in a roughly 750 chapter manga where Weight has been somewhat relevant outside Houken fights. Three opening blows that act as hype moments but don't determine the outcome, one fight where each fighter's Weight cancels the other's out and one fight where the winner flat out ignored it because muscles. Lel.