Chapter Discussion This chapter proved Shanks is not a "true" swordsman
- Thread starter Jack D. Jobber
- Start date
1) Haki is integral part of swordsmanship. Just like strength and speed. Quit separating it. The future WSS is literally ACoC + ACoA + CoO user.
2) WSS means being stronger than other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 as per Zoro's definition of what he needs to achieve his dream and Vivre Card placing him above Shanks EoS.
A true WSS will beat, or at the very least equal any other swordsman. Can never be beaten by them in 1 vs 1. That's literally what the title is.
Flash news, you don't HAVE to 100% have stronger haki in all three to be able to beat anyone in a 1 vs 1. Every stat factors in.
He was the World's Strongest DF user dude. It's just not worth mentioning because it's already included in WSC.
Same as how it's not worth mentioning Mihawk is World's Strongest Long Sword user. That's a given.
Roger was naturally WSS too, but it's not worth mentioning because he was far more than just that anyway. He was equal to WSM. That's a given.
It's like how Whitebeard is WSM but it's not worth mentioning if he's World's Strongest naginata user or some shit. That's a given.
World's Strongest DF usert is simply a DF user who will beat any other DF user in 1 vs 1.
2) WSS means being stronger than other swordsmen in 1 vs 1 as per Zoro's definition of what he needs to achieve his dream and Vivre Card placing him above Shanks EoS.
A true WSS will beat, or at the very least equal any other swordsman. Can never be beaten by them in 1 vs 1. That's literally what the title is.
Flash news, you don't HAVE to 100% have stronger haki in all three to be able to beat anyone in a 1 vs 1. Every stat factors in.
He was the World's Strongest DF user dude. It's just not worth mentioning because it's already included in WSC.
Same as how it's not worth mentioning Mihawk is World's Strongest Long Sword user. That's a given.
Roger was naturally WSS too, but it's not worth mentioning because he was far more than just that anyway. He was equal to WSM. That's a given.
It's like how Whitebeard is WSM but it's not worth mentioning if he's World's Strongest naginata user or some shit. That's a given.
World's Strongest DF usert is simply a DF user who will beat any other DF user in 1 vs 1.
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I'm not arguing who will beat who in a fight, so i dont know what you're arguing about now. Really, suddenly theres new infos that Kaidou is World's Strongest DF user and WB is World's Strongest Naginata User? Seeing you try to invent stuff without the manga stating it, i can see why you're interpreting WSS even after directly opposed by Roger and Kaidou not being WSS or WS DF user.
Literally what we've all been saying since start of this entire thing with you. What WSS topic is about.
It's about becoming the supreme swordsman who can beat up any other swordsman and not lose to them. That's the dream Zoro is chasing. That's why he wants to win and not lose. That's why he'll DEFEAT Mihawk. That's why Oda says he'll have surpassed Shanks in general.
They're two swordsmen, and they'll be weaker than WSS Zoro in a fight.
Bloody obvious shit. Just trying to make a point out of how absence of evidence does not translate into evidence of absence.
Your argument is a poor fallacy that, "Roger was not WSS because it's not stated,"
Roger is not canonically confirmed to be WSS of his era, but judging based off of what WSS is canonically, Roger absolutely was unless there was a swordsman of that time who could beat the shit out of Roger.
And unless there's a PROOF above, logic dictates he kind of was. Absence of evidence = evidence of absence is not proof. It's a poor fallacy that's commonly used in arguments.
It's about becoming the supreme swordsman who can beat up any other swordsman and not lose to them. That's the dream Zoro is chasing. That's why he wants to win and not lose. That's why he'll DEFEAT Mihawk. That's why Oda says he'll have surpassed Shanks in general.
They're two swordsmen, and they'll be weaker than WSS Zoro in a fight.
Bloody obvious shit. Just trying to make a point out of how absence of evidence does not translate into evidence of absence.
Your argument is a poor fallacy that, "Roger was not WSS because it's not stated,"
Roger is not canonically confirmed to be WSS of his era, but judging based off of what WSS is canonically, Roger absolutely was unless there was a swordsman of that time who could beat the shit out of Roger.
And unless there's a PROOF above, logic dictates he kind of was. Absence of evidence = evidence of absence is not proof. It's a poor fallacy that's commonly used in arguments.
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"Roger absolutely was WSS based on what WSS is canonically with zero person stating it and with everyone stating other specific stuff instead about those with strength titles", lol way to treat complete absence of proof as absolute proof purely by your assumption alone contradicting what's being stated.
@nik87 @HA001 OF THE RAIN @mly90
Shanks the swordmans cant stand the real goat:
I will repost al lthe time I see thread about Shanks not being a swordman:
THIS IS THE ONLY TRUE AGENDA PLEBS
GODHAWK > SHANKS
Shanks the swordmans cant stand the real goat:
I will repost al lthe time I see thread about Shanks not being a swordman:
THIS IS THE ONLY TRUE AGENDA PLEBS
GODHAWK > SHANKSNo, I'm not. Roger could've not been WSS, it's a possibility.
I'm saying Roger was WSS as well unless there was some swordsman who could beat Roger in 1 vs 1. The latter is possibility, but logically speaking, I doubt it.
Anyway, that's how the title works.
The MC who wants to be WSS confirms many times that the title is about beating other swordsmen in fight and not losing. Likewise, Oda confirms that upon becoming WSS, Zoro will be stronger in a fight than not only Mihawk, but Shanks as well- the only other top tier swordsman in the world now.
I'm saying Roger was WSS as well unless there was some swordsman who could beat Roger in 1 vs 1. The latter is possibility, but logically speaking, I doubt it.
Anyway, that's how the title works.
The MC who wants to be WSS confirms many times that the title is about beating other swordsmen in fight and not losing. Likewise, Oda confirms that upon becoming WSS, Zoro will be stronger in a fight than not only Mihawk, but Shanks as well- the only other top tier swordsman in the world now.
Zoro wanna do ZKK, he's gonna cut Kaidou down. Zoro also vowed will never lose again after Baratie. What you speak of is character's ambition. It has narrative value, but never the canonical fact.
"Roger was WSS unless someone beat him in battle" is you contradicting the fact that Roger excels in haki with no one in the entire world mention him of being WSS on your own, Roger having strongest haki specifically without being WSS, while WSS Mihawk is better than Shanks specifically in sword skill, are on-panel canonical facts, unlike Zoro's ambition to never lose again etc which has been trampled by Kizaru, Kuma etc.
You stating a character's desire as facts becomes silly when you're not being responsible in giving the proof of Roger being WSS as support of your argument, exactly because there is no one saying that, everyone dismissing that canonical fact of yours and its irrelevant for them, just like how Kaidou is WSC without being the best in DF usage alone or club mastery alone or durability alone.
Stop saying canonical facts here and there while Kaidou even dismiss WSS as powerlevel representative, but proceed to hail PK as the power peak and haki peak instead of WSS while he personally knows Roger and Xebec who were both top swordsmen, and Oden who scarred him using swords, but never even remember about Roger being WSS.
"Roger was WSS unless someone beat him in battle" is you contradicting the fact that Roger excels in haki with no one in the entire world mention him of being WSS on your own, Roger having strongest haki specifically without being WSS, while WSS Mihawk is better than Shanks specifically in sword skill, are on-panel canonical facts, unlike Zoro's ambition to never lose again etc which has been trampled by Kizaru, Kuma etc.
You stating a character's desire as facts becomes silly when you're not being responsible in giving the proof of Roger being WSS as support of your argument, exactly because there is no one saying that, everyone dismissing that canonical fact of yours and its irrelevant for them, just like how Kaidou is WSC without being the best in DF usage alone or club mastery alone or durability alone.
Stop saying canonical facts here and there while Kaidou even dismiss WSS as powerlevel representative, but proceed to hail PK as the power peak and haki peak instead of WSS while he personally knows Roger and Xebec who were both top swordsmen, and Oden who scarred him using swords, but never even remember about Roger being WSS.
Yeah, sure. But Zoro has made clear what his dream is. What becoming WSS is. So unless you think Zoro will never become the WSS he dreamt of, you're wrong.
Sure, doesn't mean he wasn't WSS. Absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence. Quit using shit-tier fallacy. If you can find someone else confirmed to be WSS or a statement that explicitly states Roger wasn't WSS, there's no evidence of anything.
But logically, from what Oda and Zoro say about what being WSS means, Roger would've been WSS unless some other swordsman was strong enough to beat him.
It's called strongest swordsman for a fucking reason lmao.
Sure, doesn't mean he wasn't WSS. Absence of evidence =/= evidence of absence. Quit using shit-tier fallacy. If you can find someone else confirmed to be WSS or a statement that explicitly states Roger wasn't WSS, there's no evidence of anything.
But logically, from what Oda and Zoro say about what being WSS means, Roger would've been WSS unless some other swordsman was strong enough to beat him.
It's called strongest swordsman for a fucking reason lmao.