Riboku is an Absolute Menace - Qin’s Northern Zhao Campaign Review

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#1
Hello everyone,

Today I wanted to examine Northern Zhao in a larger post because quite frankly, Riboku’s complete and utter defeat of the Qin here was just shocking. Imo this is Riboku showing us why he is considered the strongest general in China and the most dangerous living figure of the era. Ousen vs Riboku for the Gyou Campaign was a great showing for Ousen, but imo it’s clear now that the Gyou campaign was very situation specific and that Riboku is still the strongest strategist in all of China (that we’ve met) in spite of Ousen’s victory over Gyou.

Let us count the sheer amount of strategic victories that Riboku gained against Qin here:

1. Riboku using the Great Wall of Zhao to route the Qin away from Kantan was a victory into itself, because Riboku used the wall to send the Qin in the exact direction he wanted them to go, specifically towards Atsuyo and eventually to Gi’An.

2. Riboku stalled Ousen’s army at Atsuyo via Shunsuiju’s suicide siege defense strategy which effectively cut the strength of the Qin army in half. Sure this strategy was Shunsuiju’s plan but ultimately it is Riboku who must decide which strategies will actually be utilized in war, and this strategy proved brutally effective against Ousen.

3. Riboku trained up the city of Romou to defeat the army of 200K reinforcements sent by Shouheikun. Riboku had done this so far in advance that Choupagang (who seemed to be an experienced general himself) was effectively checkmated and defeated months before he even raised an army.

This is an aspect of Riboku this arc that truly terrified me. The man effectively defeated two veteran Qin generals with nothing more than simply planning their actions literal months in advanced before anything actually happened. Like imagine being a veteran General with all your years of experience and training, and your defeat comes from the simple forethought of your enemy and not even their actions or commands during the battle itself. More on the second General later.

4. Riboku very nearly checkmated Kanki and the 150k~ man Qin army in the north as soon as he revealed his army of 300K+ that he had kept invisible from the Qin’s view. Sure Kanki/Shin/Mouten/Heki escaped this ambush but they lost the vast majority of their actual armies and lost the ability to actually fight Riboku without ambush/surprise strategies.

5. Onto the second General that Riboku’s simple forethought defeated, Heki. Now Heki isn’t an amazing general, but Heki is competent and experienced. Heki is a general who can be relied upon to make competent calls and not bite off more than he can chew. Heki rallying Kanki’s troops was supposed to be a hype moment that shows Heki’s experience and leadership in action, and Heki got casually annihilated by Riboku’s plan that he made 6 months ago.

It is not accurate to say that Riboku “negged” Choupagang and Heki, it is more accurate to say Choupagang and Heki were defeated simply by the casual autopilot of Riboku’s battle plan, and this is not something we’ve ever seen from Great Generals before. We’ve seen Great Generals “neg or one shot” certain generals, but we’ve never seen generals just get completely auto-pilot diffed by a battle plan contrived months ago. Riboku truly is scary man.

6. And finally, we saw Riboku survive Kanki’s brutal ambush on his HQ. It isn’t enough that Riboku strategically checked Ousen, defeated Shouheikun by defeating the reinforcement army and conceiling his own troops, autopilot diffed two experienced generals, defeated and killed Kanki, and basically consistently mollywhopped a Qin army lead by multiple 6GGs and supported by Shouheikun, but Riboku also got virtually checkmated by Kanki and was still able to ultimately survive.

Put some respect on the Godboku man. Literally the Qin are going to need to send multiple of the Qin 6GG at him at once to stop him.

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @Seth @TheKnightOfTheSea @Shanks @FutureWarrior123
 
#3
Yeah Qin got slapped hard by this. Riboku outplayed their best strategists in the process, destroyed the Kanki army and despite Kanki's own performance, got the man too.

Overall, Riboku is simply the #1 general in Kingdom. Even Ousen, much as I stan him, he's close but I'd still put him below Riboku (maybe going forward he'll surpass him). Some people might also try to mention Gakuki and Hakuki but as mighty as they are portrayed, Riboku tops that.

And finally there's this Kouen "wildcard", a general who might potentially be stronger than Riboku. But even here portrayal it's all in Riboku's favor right now ("most dangerous man in China" and "Greatest threat to Qin unification plan"). So if you force me now to choose, I have to pick Riboku.

He's the Goatboku:endthis:
 
#6
What actually happened to Heki though, I don’t even remember his part during this whole Northern Zhao invasion, low key thought he was still chilling with the Mountain Warriors and YoTanWa.

Riboku is on a level of his own when it comes to stratagem and tactics. Low key the Aizen to everybody else in Kingdom.
 
#7
Riboku is good and no doubt amongst top 3 but never would be the best. This is since the beginning of the series.

He can never be best strategist of the series when he lost coalition with double of the advantages in comparison to Qin. There he couldn't even conquer an inch of Qin's land while Ousen with his first invasion captured whole southern area while destroying 1 GH and quite a lot of other famous generals from Riboku's side.

Riboku's performace while defending his land is quite mixed up. Lol. In defense Riboku lost pretty badly once in Gyou campaign and heavily won in this northern Zhao invasion (even though he got to eat dirt in the end). But just for the stopping Qin here, he has take a lots of time and do lots of preparations and strategies how to stop either a GG army or reinforcements (as in Roumou). I believe he took around a few months of preparation time.

In comparison Qin did far better in northern pass against coalition which was also lead by Riboku. They not only successfully defended the land but also crushed the opponents.
 
#9
What actually happened to Heki though, I don’t even remember his part during this whole Northern Zhao invasion, low key thought he was still chilling with the Mountain Warriors and YoTanWa.

Riboku is on a level of his own when it comes to stratagem and tactics. Low key the Aizen to everybody else in Kingdom.
Heki got captured by Zhao soldiers and got sent to prison camps and work to death along with Kanki Army survivors who got captured.
 

Elder Lee Hung

Conqueror of the Stars
#11
What actually happened to Heki though, I don’t even remember his part during this whole Northern Zhao invasion, low key thought he was still chilling with the Mountain Warriors and YoTanWa.

Riboku is on a level of his own when it comes to stratagem and tactics. Low key the Aizen to everybody else in Kingdom.
Basically Riboku had poisoned the water supply of the city that Heki attempted to rally inside, which resulted in Heki’s entire rallied army getting completely annihilated by poison overnight without the Zhao even needing to attack them
 
#14
If the Zhao hadn’t have removed him, he would’ve sieged Gyou and successfully predicted the Qi reinforcements which would have also resulted in a Zhao victory.
Sky already darkened when Riboku got the idea of supplies from other sides and same was when supplies actually reached.... so basically nothing would’ve changed even if he was present there.

Also Zhao forces were covering the other side of giant Gyou and that is from great distance rather than the side through which supplies actually arrived. Seeing the situation of other side is quite difficult when giants walls covering a few kilometers of distance. The position of Riboku’s HQ and later Kaine's was also towards in line of Retsubi which is opposite to Qi's side. We got to see how Kaine reacted in the end.
Post automatically merged:

Also Riboku already lost the war when he got to fled from battlefield..... later on everything were excuses.
 
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#15
Riboku is good and no doubt amongst top 3 but never would be the best. This is since the beginning of the series.
His potrayal as the best general so far has been pretty clear as this was stated by multiple characters from different parties and even the narrator of the manga who called him most dangerous enemy of Qin. There's obviously the case of him being surpassed in the future, but him being above old generation is clearly how hara views him.

He can never be best strategist of the series when he lost coalition with double of the advantages in comparison to Qin.
What other strategist would win Coalition War in Riboku's place with all the amount of talent of Qin's side?

Overall I agree that coalition was Riboku's weakest performance so far, but looking back don't think a different strategy would mean much when there was also the factor of reinforcements from Mountain Men. Riboku had a solid plan B in sneaking an army through Bu Pass which Shouheikun didn't predict. The arrival of Yotanwa changed the situation tho.

There he couldn't even conquer an inch of Qin's land while Ousen with his first invasion captured whole southern area while destroying 1 GH and quite a lot of other famous generals from Riboku's side.
Riboku did want to use the Coalition to take back Sanyou, but they didn't because Shunshinkun was set on revenge against Qi. I think people are forgeting that Riboku was not commander in chief during this war, it was SSK.



Sky already darkened when Riboku got the idea of supplies from other sides and same was when supplies actually reached.... so basically nothing would’ve changed even if he was present there.
Nah, the supplies also arrived during the night. There was still a chance to stop them if Riboku was at the frontlines.
 
#16
His potrayal as the best general so far has been pretty clear as this was stated by multiple characters from different parties and even the narrator of the manga who called him most dangerous enemy of Qin. There's obviously the case of him being surpassed in the future, but him being above old generation is clearly how hara views him.
Definitely the most dangerous enemy of Qin but comparing his feats to whatever narrator or other characters said in the series is clearly very different. It has been showed on multiple occasions that how he ain't the best ever or even amongst present alives.

What other strategist would win Coalition War in Riboku's place with all the amount of talent of Qin's side?
Why would should this matters ? While defending Qin didn't lost an inch of land while Zhou lost whole south-western region. SHK was successful in fending off opponents with full disadvantages while Riboku still having advantage over Qin (whether in numbers or generals or home terrain advantage) still lost. That's all matters and proves the point.


Overall I agree that coalition was Riboku's weakest performance so far, but looking back don't think a different strategy would mean much when there was also the factor of reinforcements from Mountain Men. Riboku had a solid plan B in sneaking an army through Bu Pass which Shouheikun didn't predict. The arrival of Yotanwa changed the situation tho.
Riboku's strategy didn't had mountain aid and neither for SHK.

You got double of Qin's numbers and talent but you still fails to either pass through Duke's , Tou/MouBu or Ousen's side and that is if you fails to open northern gate than this only shows Riboku's incapabilities as commander.

Even with plan B of southern pass, he fails to take timely action and harder decisions after knowing it would be none other than king who could rally all these civilians to go against an army of elites.

So what if there's a reinforcements from mountain. What kind of best super talented and most dangerous general he is who can't even reform the army of elites after getting pushed back.

We have multiple examples of generals reforming the armies under brutal melees or adverse situations but Riboku is so called most dangerous general. He should be capable of doing it. But wait he did failed pretty badly against Ousen as well in Shukai plains central battlefield as well.


Riboku did want to use the Coalition to take back Sanyou, but they didn't because Shunshinkun was set on revenge against Qi. I think people are forgeting that Riboku was not commander in chief during this war, it was SSK.
Really??? Just start your 2nd reading again and enjoy it coz SSK was only face of Coalition HQ but it was Riboku who made all the strategies and decisions. SSK did wanted to vent out his anger but Riboku wasn't in position to affect his decision after showing results of failure in both northern and southern pass. So basically he just went ahead with SSK's demands.


Nah, the supplies also arrived during the night.
I said the same thing buddy.

There was still a chance to stop them if Riboku was at the frontlines.
He would just be riding there and seeing supplies getting inside of Gyou. Covering such a giant city like Gyou takes some time even by riding horses.
 
#17
Why would should this matters ? While defending Qin didn't lost an inch of land while Zhou lost whole south-western region. SHK was successful in fending off opponents with full disadvantages while Riboku still having advantage over Qin (whether in numbers or generals or home terrain advantage) still lost. That's all matters and proves the point.
Ofc, there's more to it then just W to L ratio, because there's always something called context. Qin is the big agressor state set on expantion, Zhao is mostly trying to defend. For example do you really think that in prievious era when Zhao had guys like Renpa and Rinshoujo they were the ones gaining territory from Qin? Kyou alone was able to take multiple regions from Zhao when Renpa was still active general and it was even pointed out how other states were closing gates in fear due to Qin's agression. And as I said prieviously, coalition could actually gain Sanyou if they listened to Riboku's advice.

When it comes to Shukai Plains even Ousen admitted that Qin had advantage in commanders quality due to new gen outperforming themselves.




You got double of Qin's numbers and talent but you still fails to either pass through Duke's , Tou/MouBu or Ousen's side and that is if you fails to open northern gate than this only shows Riboku's incapabilities as commander.
He did pass them tho thanks to Bu Pass plan. Brief reminder that he was sending soldiers since day one and thanks to that he was able to outmanouver the Qin armies. In kingdom quality advantage is always more important then quantity advantage. Qin having several 6GG level commanders is bigger advantage then coalition having bigger armies and Riboku was still able to successfully pass their blocade.

Even with plan B of southern pass, he fails to take timely action and harder decisions after knowing it would be none other than king who could rally all these civilians to go against an army of elites.

So what if there's a reinforcements from mountain. What kind of best super talented and most dangerous general he is who can't even reform the army of elites after getting pushed back.

We have multiple examples of generals reforming the armies under brutal melees or adverse situations but Riboku is so called most dangerous general. He should be capable of doing it. But wait he did failed pretty badly against Ousen as well in Shukai plains central battlefield as well.
I'm not sure what "reforming" are you talking about here. Riboku did successfully overcame Sai's defences, the mountain army arrived literally when they opened the city gates by a fluke. The problem was never that he couldn't overcomethe reinforcements, the problem was that even if he did afterwords there would be another battle against Shouheikun in Kanyou and Riboku didn't have enough resources for it.

He would literally had to overcome Yotanwa and Sai and then still siege their capitol that happens to have another genius strategist.



Really??? Just start your 2nd reading again and enjoy it coz SSK was only face of Coalition HQ but it was Riboku who made all the strategies and decisions. SSK did wanted to vent out his anger but Riboku wasn't in position to affect his decision after showing results of failure in both northern and southern pass. So basically he just went ahead with SSK's demands.
Doesn't matter, it's not Riboku's fault that Coalition's potencial was not fully realized. There was a legitimate chance for them to take back Sanyou if SSK actually swallowed his pride and listened to Riboku's advice. In the end it's always the commander in chief that makes the final decision.

He would just be riding there and seeing supplies getting inside of Gyou. Covering such a giant city like Gyou takes some time even by riding horses.
He wouldn't need to, if he would be at the frontlines. All it takes is give orders to messegers and then they just tell the closest patrols to the gates to pay attention, because there's a possible scheme in work.
 
F

Formerly Seth

#18
Hello everyone,

Today I wanted to examine Northern Zhao in a larger post because quite frankly, Riboku’s complete and utter defeat of the Qin here was just shocking. Imo this is Riboku showing us why he is considered the strongest general in China and the most dangerous living figure of the era. Ousen vs Riboku for the Gyou Campaign was a great showing for Ousen, but imo it’s clear now that the Gyou campaign was very situation specific and that Riboku is still the strongest strategist in all of China (that we’ve met) in spite of Ousen’s victory over Gyou.

Let us count the sheer amount of strategic victories that Riboku gained against Qin here:

1. Riboku using the Great Wall of Zhao to route the Qin away from Kantan was a victory into itself, because Riboku used the wall to send the Qin in the exact direction he wanted them to go, specifically towards Atsuyo and eventually to Gi’An.

2. Riboku stalled Ousen’s army at Atsuyo via Shunsuiju’s suicide siege defense strategy which effectively cut the strength of the Qin army in half. Sure this strategy was Shunsuiju’s plan but ultimately it is Riboku who must decide which strategies will actually be utilized in war, and this strategy proved brutally effective against Ousen.

3. Riboku trained up the city of Romou to defeat the army of 200K reinforcements sent by Shouheikun. Riboku had done this so far in advance that Choupagang (who seemed to be an experienced general himself) was effectively checkmated and defeated months before he even raised an army.

This is an aspect of Riboku this arc that truly terrified me. The man effectively defeated two veteran Qin generals with nothing more than simply planning their actions literal months in advanced before anything actually happened. Like imagine being a veteran General with all your years of experience and training, and your defeat comes from the simple forethought of your enemy and not even their actions or commands during the battle itself. More on the second General later.

4. Riboku very nearly checkmated Kanki and the 150k~ man Qin army in the north as soon as he revealed his army of 300K+ that he had kept invisible from the Qin’s view. Sure Kanki/Shin/Mouten/Heki escaped this ambush but they lost the vast majority of their actual armies and lost the ability to actually fight Riboku without ambush/surprise strategies.

5. Onto the second General that Riboku’s simple forethought defeated, Heki. Now Heki isn’t an amazing general, but Heki is competent and experienced. Heki is a general who can be relied upon to make competent calls and not bite off more than he can chew. Heki rallying Kanki’s troops was supposed to be a hype moment that shows Heki’s experience and leadership in action, and Heki got casually annihilated by Riboku’s plan that he made 6 months ago.

It is not accurate to say that Riboku “negged” Choupagang and Heki, it is more accurate to say Choupagang and Heki were defeated simply by the casual autopilot of Riboku’s battle plan, and this is not something we’ve ever seen from Great Generals before. We’ve seen Great Generals “neg or one shot” certain generals, but we’ve never seen generals just get completely auto-pilot diffed by a battle plan contrived months ago. Riboku truly is scary man.

6. And finally, we saw Riboku survive Kanki’s brutal ambush on his HQ. It isn’t enough that Riboku strategically checked Ousen, defeated Shouheikun by defeating the reinforcement army and conceiling his own troops, autopilot diffed two experienced generals, defeated and killed Kanki, and basically consistently mollywhopped a Qin army lead by multiple 6GGs and supported by Shouheikun, but Riboku also got virtually checkmated by Kanki and was still able to ultimately survive.

Put some respect on the Godboku man. Literally the Qin are going to need to send multiple of the Qin 6GG at him at once to stop him.

@Owl Ki @Blackbeard @MarineHQ @God Buggy @Seth @TheKnightOfTheSea @Shanks @FutureWarrior123
What happened in this war is a bit different from what should be occurring history wise am I correct?
 
F

Formerly Seth

#20
the source that hara follow
didn't put any details on the war at all just rbk defeated kanki at gian and at hika .
...
the other sources that explained how battle went . hara doesn't write from it.
I don't like reading historical spoilers cause I want to be surprised by Hara but I read something about Kanki and/or SHK deflecting to other states.
 
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