Spoiler One Piece Chapter 1087 Spoilers Discussion

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

kaido was sort of used as a multi-training package for luffy
had him upgrade his armament ,conquerors ,and awaken his fruit at a go

 

[ZenZu]

It's what i think.
Shiryu just isn't Mihawk, bro.


I'm not following your argument.

Someone as powerful/balanced as Zoro suffers vs Shiryu precisely because Shiryu can exploit the one facet where Zoro isn't balanced.
Weaker characters can actually do better than Zoro vs Shiryu, if they are able to counter Shiryu.

For example, if Shiryu was supposed to fight a different Zoro (hypothetically if he has same CoO as Garp showed this chapter & no CoC infusion), Shiryu would still get beaten.
The growth that Zoro underwent in Wano, is pretty much irrelevant in the Shiryu fight - is my point.

I can't think of many characters that are much weaker than Zoro that would be able to defeat Shiryu. If Zoro is running into a problem despite being so balanced, then characters weaker than him aren't going to be able to solve it, that's what it means to be balanced. Just because Zoro has not mastered observation doesn't mean he doesn't have workarounds like AOE, reactions, speed, skill etc.

And honestly I don't buy Shiryu being weaker significantly weaker than Zoro in every way possible and Zoro still gets beat down, if you're saying he will struggle only a bit then I can see the case you're making, but if Shiryu's devil fruit is simply that busted to the point he bullies Zoro for that reason alone, then it would apply the same way to anyone else (who doesn't have the one counter to Shiryu maxed out, and there aren't many of these characters most of them would sit in the top tier realm). Remember I'm speaking under the premise that Shiryu pushes Zoro as King was doing, I'm not talking about some stupid ass Pica type fight.

Can you give an example of characters who would be able to defeat Shiryu but are much weaker than Zoro? What would they have, that Zoro lacks? I can give you maybe Katakuri if he manages to counter invisibility. But that is an absolute anomaly who is maxed out in observation and reactions, and I consider that a mismatch for Shiryu rather than Shiryu being a mismatch for every other non top tier in existence, and that's only given the info we know about Shiryu rn not further reveals.

 

[EmperorKinyagi]

So??.

Prime Garp have all stats at Top tier, Endurance,speed,Strenght,Physicall, Haki.

Prime BB > Prime WB > Garp

It is what it is

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

What does shiryu have ? That's the question
If his haki and sword skills suck then he gets stomped once Zoro gets COO upgrade.

Katakuri was skilled and powerful outside of fs
Matching his CoO wouldn't give you advantage to dominate him unless you're top tier.

Shiryu will either end up like Doffy or King
Either gets mid diffed as Doffy lost to G4 or low diff as King lost to EnOu Zoro
(Overlal the fight will be very high diff or extreme diff tho)

That's why Katakuri is one of the strongest Right Hand man and with Benn beckman and Zoro, because all of three of them is a Conquerors.

 

[Albino 👑]

Shiryu was only more dangerous than Magellan because of his experience and because Magellan takes a shit every day that lasts like.... Half of that day. In a raid type of shit, Magellan is miles above Shiryu regarding danger level mostly because of his fruit. And in a 1v1, I'd still take my chances against Shiryu than against Magellan.

i actually had them ranked quite higher pre ts early ts.


things have changed though.

I think Shiryu will be comfortably stronger than King.

But he's not admiral level lol

In a 1v1 I think they should be more or less still comparable even if Magellan was stronger. Magellan does have an extremely op fruit tho

Imo even while in impel down shiryu and Magellan > king and Marco

 

[centurion]

Also guys, I'm surprised no one has talked about this, but is Garp an idiot.

Goes to yonko territory
Gets swarmed by pirates

Garp:

“Y-yonko crew fights back???”

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

Prime BB > Prime WB > Garp

It is what it is

I am start to think that Prime BB will be a mess, dude will relying in his fruits, and be weak in other categories.

 

[MonsterZoro]

Omg raws out

 

[Embers Kaios]

And maybe the bird Gorosei, is my guess.

Zoro is fighting greenbull

Sanji will face Kizaru

 

[Gol D. Roger]

Lol, what can Doflamingo do in the same position? Whatever he has done against Aokiji was based on his devil fruit. Grabbing by BB make it useless. You are comparing shittiest version of Luffy to Blackbeard to show physical prowess of Doflamingo. I mean Luffy was able to send caesar towards the edge of the island from the lab using G3.

Kick him in the face with Haki and physical strength? Doffy's not useless as soon as his DF is taken. This is Doffy getting stuck in Flower Hill:

Spoiler

And this is what he did to break free:

Spoiler

That's his raw power right there. Also, there was no indication of Doffy using his DF powers to break free from Aokiji. He broke free physically although I don't think it's impressive in any way as he was just covered in an ice envelope.

 

[GoldDiamond]

Prime BB

bro should be hitting prime rn

 

[HellBlazer04]

Struggling with Shiryu =/= getting his ass whooped. When I quoted @Gol D. Roger this was the premise. We're at a point of the story where Zoro is not only insanely powerful but incredibly balanced.

You don't whoop someone's ass on that level with a gimmick alone. If Zoro only struggles and even more so because of some underhanded stuff, then it's a different conversation.

I think right now if you make a hypothetical scenario of Zoro vs Shiryu fight, Zoro clearly looks superior in stats. Shiryu stats right now fall below even RT Zoro. His most highlighted ability is the invisibility and underhanded tactics. Nothing other than that has been impressive about Shiryu for now.

So this is why most of the scenarios created around this fights, people only count(including me) that the only way the fight will be tough is by underhanded tactics.

We'll see what happens when they actually fight in future, but right now for me atleast shiryu is not remotely close to zoro.

Do we really want Zoro's battles to have as many asspulls as Luffy's, even the convenient advCoC awakening and retarded unexplained King flame on/off gimmick was bad enough.

Though I do agree it would need to happen sooner than later. I just can't visualize how Shiryu vs Zoro, and BB vs Luffy can lineup if BB is supposed to be this >> Prime WB level threat.

You made a great point. Oda still hasn't been able to properly explain the bullshit lunarian gimmick So just imagine how abysmal his explanation for black blades will be? Imagine we just get single line explanation during the Mihawk fight, with no prior knowledge of what a black blade even means.

Its just i want to see Zoro progess in someway where we can accurately gauge his level. If he fights a top tier and puts a good amount of pressure on the top tier while ultimately losing, is much better way to scale zoro than him just fighting commanders who are fodders to top tiers anyway.
If he keeps fighting commanders, we don't know if has reached in the top tier bracket.

 

[GrandmasterChef Zonji]

Also guys, I'm surprised no one has talked about this, but is Garp an idiot.

Goes to yonko territory
Gets swarmed by pirates

Garp:

 

[MUUGEN]

In a 1v1 I think they should be more or less still comparable even if Magellan was stronger. Magellan does have an extremely op fruit tho

Imo even while in impel down shiryu and Magellan > king and Marco

lol youre fucking mad if you think both are above King let alone Marco who was manhandling king, queen and pero and doesnt show any physical damage from the payback war.

 

[LANJI CUCKSMOKE]

kaido was sort of used as a multi-training package for luffy
had him upgrade his armament ,conquerors ,and awaken his fruit at a go

to add further to this, when you begin to see fights as medium through which the mc grows
and you look at zoro in comparison

he has ryou and conquerors so an abrupt sequence of powerups isnt needed . a step by step progression would suffice.


he lacks a black blade
and advanced mastery over observation


shiryu would suffice for one of these. am fairly convinced it might be a gimmick fight.

 

[Ninjashadow0209]

And maybe the bird Gorosei, is my guess.

Won't be Pizarro.

Will be Chef vs Drinker.

Helmesman vs Giant Ship.

 

[ZenZu]

hmm Idk if that can be argued generally because he could hold his own on the rooftop against yonkos (I would argue he was incredibly balanced here) but king's gimmick would have even luffy at a stalemate . They are currently still being held off by the seraphim iirc..
if the fruit shiryu has is worth its weight, and he is able to blindside characters like garp who from all indication sensed it coming, made an attempt to stop it and failed, then zoro would struggle under similar circumstances.




lol

I was gonna say "King has the physical strength to toss Zoro around, and he's also fast to boot. He wasn't just durability only. "

But you're right that gimmick was super duper strong, at the end of the day only the end results matter, gimmick or no gimmick.

It's just in my head the invisibility gimmick doesn't seem as busted, so Shiryu would have to compensate in other areas to be overwhelming Zoro, but if it indeed is that busted...it would bother everyone across the board. Just like King haunts everyone in his tier, Shiryu would be the same.

 

[centurion]

 

[Nidai_Kitetsu]

Do you think Shiryu can trade blows with post CoC Zoro?

Even King, who wasnt even a swordsman, was trading blows with AdCoC Zoro. Shiryu has a named blade, he is probably a master swordsman from Wano. You guys are insane to think Zoro's counterpart from Blackbeard crew cant trade blows with him.

That's pretty much it though... like what do you think will happen in that fight?
Like what are the aspects that you think Zoro would improve in from the start to the end of the fight, in order to beat Shiryu?

His entire Hype in Post TS goes around his Fruit, the perfect fruit for someone to reach a higher level in Observation Haki.

Zoro could increase the time-limit of his AdCoC for example. Shiryu is just getting started, let him get his moments first. You think Garp's observation haki is bad? Dude still got stabbed by Shiryu.

 

[Valcrein]

finally garp said, his son becomes revolutionaries...

so.. is "garp is luffy's grandpa from his mother side"-theory officially shut down now ?